Making parts when you can not find them . Machinist

[James Landi]

Bill,

I "get" the entire life change... for me, the transition was difficult, having been a "school man" for 50 years, and having tried retirement on 4 occasions, and then "getting the bug again," and going back to it.  The last opportunity was to head a lovely Episcopal school in Florida, and I changed my mind in the final stages of the search... and thank GOD I did--- now, at age 75, I'm enjoying life at a slower pace, but I still  very much enjoy getting my hands dirty with various auto and home and boat projects.   You clearly have a fabulous talent, developed over decades of experience, and you might consider taking on jobs where the pay for service goes to your grandkids' education, an approach for pay for service that would likely sit well with many of us. The average hourly for work on a car exceeds $100 an hour, and quite often, as you well know, one pays for unnecessary errors.    Just a thought Bill, respectfully,   James   

[Jay Friedman]

John Harrison's 4 maritime chronometers H1, H2, H3 and H4 described in Sobel's book are on display at the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, London. 

https://www.rmg.co.uk/royal-observatory/attractions/john-harrisons-marine-timekeepers

There you can see them working perfectly after 200+ years, though they did undergo a restoration in the 1920s. 

[Scot Minesinger]

I probably will always be making custom parts.  The part you made for your 1970 Cadillac is way better quality than it ever needed to be, and if every part was made with that type of durability all the 1970 Cadillacs would still be in use today. 

Will be retiring soon, and looking forward to getting a life.  It will be more doing what I want when I want. 

[dochawk]

Hello ,
    I have been in the machining  business all my life .  This April I will turn 70 and I will be retiring to Florida .  Over the years I have found myself making a lot of parts when they are not readily available. I have a 70 Coupe DeVille and have noticed the the adjustment bracket on the A/C Power Servo were made out of plastic and over the years ( 52 ) these plastic parts have A tendency to get dry and brittle. I have not been able to find them anywhere except in junkyards and even those parts are dry and brittle. This is what I will miss most about retiring is having the opportunity and the capability to re-manufacture parts when needed. It took me about five hours to make this part. Over the years I have made parts for several people never charging them but never making parts to sell for a profit. I feel sad in a way that I will not have the opportunity to do this anymore but in another way I feel happy that I was able to make  many different parts and keep our classic cars running .  Here is a couple of photos of my latest part.
     Bill

[Lexi]

Bill,

I have a vintage (1935) 9 inch South Bend Lathe with a milling attachment that I've owned for 25+ years as well as a modern Taig mini lathe.  I was never a professional machinist like you and what little machining skill I have I learned by taking a night course at a local technical college.  Parts for my 1949 Cadillac are fairly plentiful, so I've never had to make many parts as you have.  Nonetheless, I've made a few small and simple parts for the car as well as some metal parts to replace broken plastic parts on household items. 

I have heard that a Hardinge is the Cadillac of lathes. 

Jay

Well. I took the plunge and bought a vintage South Bend Model A machinist's lathe. Already I am wondering how I got along without one for so long. Between that, my industrial metal cutter and my MIG welder, as well as other tooling, I have lots of projects on the go including some Cadillac. For the hardcore out there, many will eventually have the need to make some parts and even the occassional tool to keep our Caddies on the road. Clay/Lexi

[Jay Friedman]

Clay/Lexi, congratulations on your "new" lathe.  If you haven't already, you might want to buy "How To Run A Lathe", a vintage instruction manual by South Bend.  You can find them on ebay and elsewhere.

Mine is an early Workshop Model C, with different pick off gears for rough and fine cuts, as well as screw cutting. There is even a separate pick off gear to reverse the carriage.  I have lots of tooling, but wish I had a gear box like your Model A. 

I had a bit of adventure with mine. Until 2007 or so the South Bend factory was still in business and in 2004 the Grand National was in South Bend. I took my lathe apart, loaded it into the space between the front and back seats of my '49 Cad, drove to South Bend and delivered the lathe to the factory. One of their machinists "re-scraped" (is that the right term?) the bed and lined up the headstock and tail stock. A month later they shipped it back to me in a crate.  I have a photo of my '49 inside the factory.  Don't know how to post them here, though.
 

[Lexi]

Clay/Lexi, congratulations on your "new" lathe.  If you haven't already, you might want to buy "How To Run A Lathe", a vintage instruction manual by South Bend.  You can find them on ebay and elsewhere.

Mine is an early Workshop Model C, with different pick off gears for rough and fine cuts, as well as screw cutting. There is even a separate pick off gear to reverse the carriage.  I have lots of tooling, but wish I had a gear box like your Model A. 

I had a bit of adventure with mine. Until 2007 or so the South Bend factory was still in business and in 2004 the Grand National was in South Bend. I took my lathe apart, loaded it into the space between the front and back seats of my '49 Cad, drove to South Bend and delivered the lathe to the factory. One of their machinists "re-scraped" (is that the right term?) the bed and lined up the headstock and tail stock. A month later they shipped it back to me in a crate.  I have a photo of my '49 inside the factory.  Don't know how to post them here, though.
 

Great story Jay. I would have loved to see the South Bend plant. And yes, I believe you are correct with that term "scraped", used to re-finish the bed. I think Grizzly now owns South Bend tools and am told they still offer some parts. Getting that lathe into your Cadillac must have been a sight to see. These lathes are beasts. Mine came without the stand which was a problem as it is not the "underneath" model, so I had to find a suitable stand and modify it. Big job. Used my engine hoist with straps to move the lathe onto the stand. Thanks for the tip on the book, which I did purchase. Have the re-print but decided to pick up an original 1930s copy as it was better illustrated than the later edition, odd as that seems. Between the South Bend and my old General wood lathe, let the chips fly. Clay/Lexi

[Jay Friedman]

I also have both a re-print and an original copy of the instruction book. Another good book is "Basic Maintenance for the Vintage South Bend Lathe" which are sold on Amazon.

My 9 incher comes apart. (Don't know about a Model A with a gearbox.)  I unbolted the headstock and took apart the carriage with not much difficulty and lifted them off.  The tailstock, gear carrier and the leadscrew, of course, came off simply and easily.  Once these are removed along with the strap from the motor, the bed becomes much lighter in weight and when unbolted from the table my wife and I were able to manhandle it into the car. The headstock and tailstock went in easily too.  When I got to the factory in South Bend, the employees were so taken aback by my vintage car with the lathe in it that several lent a hand to unload it.  Now this was along with all the tools and spare parts that I take on long trips to GNs. As they say, "Blue chips".   

Mine is not an "underneath" model either.  I bought a South Bend table for an underneath drive model which, like you, I modified.  I stopped up the holes on the tabletop with steel plates and mounted the lathe on them.  I made a stand for the motor from a Chinese bench grinder stand which is fastened behind the table with steel straps.  Send me an email to jaysfriedman(at)yahoo.com and I'll reply with a photo of it all.

[Lexi]

Will do, and I will send a photo of my set up. I used a double pedastal style table that I fastened steel wheel locking casters to, onto thick angle iron, so I can move it around the shop without flex, then lock it into place so it won't roll. No rubber on the casters, just steel, so they won't mush out under the weight which total now with the cabinets loaded is around 700 to 750 lbs. I also installed a custom steel chip tray which further stiffens the entire assembly. Like you I used steel plate to further secure the motor, (5/8" thick I used), as the 1/4" inch plate I initially installed was flexing. Not aware of that other book you mentioned. Will have to look that one up. I did pick up "A Guide to Renovating the South Bend Lathe 9" Model A, B & C Plus Model 10K". Helps fill in the gaps. How useful is your milling attachment? Thinking of looking for one. I do have a riser kit for mine, which when installed will increase the swing to 11" (or 11.5-can't remember exactly). Adding to the quick change tool holder which is better than the original lantern style. Clay/Lexi

[Jay Friedman]

My table has little steel tabs with bolt holes at floor level. Into those I installed permanent steel "feet" which in turn sit on small rubber pads to protect the garage floor. I think (hope?) it's all stiff enough.  I check the balance and twist every so often with a machinist's level.  My chip tray is just a sheet metal pan.

My steel plates under the table top holes are 1/4" thick. Where did you obtain the 5/8" plates?  I have a copy of "A Guide.....". The book I mentioned is published by the same people.  My milling attachment is useful for small jobs.  It has its limitations, of course. 

I have several types of tool holders, including a lantern and one I made myself, but not a quick-change. My favorite tool holder is The Diamond Tool Holder made in Australia. It sits vertically like very early lathes and it's easy to grind tools for it using an included jig. (I'm not good at grinding tools.) I have a larger one for my South Bend and a smaller one for my Taig. 

https://www.eccentricengineering.com.au/products/diamond-tool-holder/the-diamond-tool-holder

[Lexi]

Jay I just sent you some photos. The 5/8" thick steel plate I bought at a local metal supplier up here called The Metal Supermarket. A great place to shop for most if not all of your metal needs. The staff were kind enough to cut it to size for me. I drilled the 5/8ths at home on the drill press to accept the mounting hardware and to attach it to the lathe stand. There is a shot of it that I sent you. Have heard of the Diamond Tool Holder, will have to look into that as well. Thanks for the tip. Have been buying some ancilliary tools for the lathe which has already done some jobs for me. Not in your league as a steep learning curve lies ahead of me. I have a couple of tool grinding stations here that I use for the wood lathe chisels. Will probably have one sub for the SB cutters, while some are just throw aways-the turning inserts. Clay/Lexi

[Stefan Bartelski (CLC Webmaster)]

Bill that is awesome work. I wish that I had become more involved in machining. I did work with plastics a while back on the job. Found many products that would augment various hobbies. Here is a group of 1940s radio knob copies, original was black bakelite, (not pictured), and damaged. I made these copies of a pristine one out of various rigid urethanes. The shiny "aluminum" copy was another grey one like that on the far left, but polished to reveal this luster. Looks like metal & has not dulled in 35 years. Other colors are available. I can see your machining skills plus the addition of this plastic work, with perhaps even some 3D printing further expanding the work that people such as yourself did. Think of the fantastic replacement gear shifter or turn signal levers that could be made for our old Cadillacs? A great combination of new machining and exact repro knobs. Threaded machined inserts could be sunk into the plastic prior to setting, so they could be screwed onto new metal parts. Clay/Lexi

Nowadays, with 3d printing, it is amazing how relatively easy it is to reproduce old parts, not only in plastic but in nylon, even metal. All it takes is some knowledge of 3d CAD programs. Even if you do not have a 3d printer, there a services where you can send your 3d files and have them printed. Costs are often quite reasonable, and lower than having something machined. Obviously, not all parts can be made this way, but if they can use 3d printing to create rockets and rocket engines, A Cadillac part should not be too difficult.

[Lexi]

Yes, that is the way to go Stefan, and that technology will only improve in the future. I have a CNC machine, but not a printer, so between the CNC and the other metal working tools here, hopefully I'm good to go with most small jobs-if I have to manufacture. I also have a molding and casting shop here as well. I am used to fabricating stuff which works well for me. Below is a handle I just made from scratch on my vintage engine lathe, including the knurled and chamfered areas, and stepped drilled pockets inside (not visible in the photo), as a replacement knob for a tool that was broken. And yes, a tool I have often used when working on my Caddy.

What was it? A tool called a "Lab Jack". These are miniature scissors activated lifts often encountered in Forensic labs and other Scientific work spaces, hence my exposure to them years ago when I worked as a Forensic Scientist. Beware the light duty ones. What you want is the heavy duty type which in some cases can tolerate up to 200 lb lift capacity, usually with a work surface of 7" x 6". I got a pair of heavy duty steel ones, which came in handy when I had to support my lathe during mounting. At around 400 lbs it destroyed the 2.5 inch plastic hand wheel when the lathe tipped. The jack however, survived. This steel fabed handle below is my replacement for the broken plastic hand wheel. Good news is that I saved a tool. These are like having a third hand, or in my case, a 4th. I would trust them used in tandem to support a Cadillac bumper for example, and with the short lift increments employed through the lead screw, you can easily line up holes, etc. Sometimes the wife just isn't around (or can't be found) to help out. No more hunting around for the right amount of scrap blocks of wood to support something...

Aside from the manufacture of parts, the fabricating of, and/or their repair can be just as important and timely for us CLC'ers. Especially as Cadillac stuff is more obscure or unobtainable. The Administrators should consider opening a new category in the Forum for "Fabrication & Repair", when members have a Cadillac related project which required special tools and/or fabricating. Yes, is Technical related, but a case could probably be made to warrant it's own folder. Clay/Lexi

[Jay Friedman]

That is good work, Clay.