64 Cadillac waterpump

[Brian Daum]

Hi Luc,

Hey, we have to get thru this ordeal together.

I sure was pissed when I broke off one of those bolts. I might have been more careful if I knew it would be an issue. I am at the point where I yesterday got off the balancer. Today I got off the two front studs in front of the oil pan. According to some of the experts the cover should be loose now, I tried to hammer lightly on it (it`s aluminum, beware!) but is sure feels stuck. Tomorrow I will be trying with a 2 X 4, but I am afraid the bolt is stuck within the cover.

If you have a decent size puller, the balancer should come off fairly easy. I just applied a lot of force to the puller, kept knocking carefully on the balancer with a hammer, then PANG, it came off. I don`t have the slighest idea of how it goes back on though.

Keep me informed of your progress.

I am in Europe as well, in Norway. Our best bet is to get new bolts from the States, and not worry about anything metric.

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

If you have broken off the waterpump bolts that go through the timing cover you are going to have to remove the oil pan so that the front edge of the timing cover where the front pan seal fits does not hold the timing cover.  Be sure ALL bolts are removed from the timing cover.  The gasket may still try and hold the cover to the block but careful "convincing" will get it free.
Once the timing cover has been slid forward clear of the broken bolt you can work on the bolt itself.
I had to go through this routine recently on my 66 and when I put it together I did so with ALL Stainless Steel bolts.
Greg

[Dave Shepherd]

When reinstalling the balancer do not hammer it on this will damage the crank thrust bearing, get a installer tool that presses it back on or make something up for the job.

[1964deville]

Hi Brian, good topic   

I will share my thougts and progress on my '64 waterpump too. I've heard from an expert that these bolts usually break because they 'became one' with the cover. So over the years, they get stuck in the cover, not in the block itself. The best way I heard to loosen these, is to heat them. Maybe you can try that in order to remove the cover.

One other thing, if I had used an air tool (http://www.toolstation.nl/images/library/stock/webbig/16589.jpg), I'm pretty sure I could've prevented them from breaking  I broke the two with a normal ring spanner, that's when I decided to gently use the air tool and got the rest out easily....

Well, it's a lesson for next time. At least I can replace my somewhat leaking front crankshaft seal too.

Again, good idea to share ideas!

Are you going to Vasteras, Sweden by the way?    I think this year we will be there My brother is driving his '71 Chrysler 300 and I think I will be seated right next to him 

Luc

[Brian Daum]

Hi Luc,

I am going to try today with heat and gently using a 2 X 4. I guess an air tool would have been a better choice. Lesson learned.

I have been trying for years to get to Power Meet at Vesterås, maybe this year. It sure is big, last year I think they were 11 000 classic US cars. If I go I`ll probably be taking my 68 Chevy C20 Pick Up. My 64 DeVille has real low mileage, and I try to keep it that way.

My crankshaft seal doesn`t leak one bit, but I will have it changed anyway.

[Brian Daum]

When reinstalling the balancer do not hammer it on this will damage the crank thrust bearing, get a installer tool that presses it back on or make something up for the job.

Hi Dave,

Yes, I am a little concerned about the thrust bearing. Thanks for that advice. Of course the manuals shows a special tool that is impossible to find, but I guess we`ll come up with something.

Thanks,

[Brian Daum]

BRAIN,if you have the rediator off of the car, you should be able to remove the broken bolts. If you do have to remove the front cover of the engine, I think you can do it without pulling the pan, just loosen the front bolts and be SUPER CAREFUL when you put the cover back-on do not allow the oil pan gasket to slip-out of place, OR  you will have to remove the  pan. Good Luck,JIM

Hi Jim,

The radiator is out of the car, as well as everything else in front. The only thing I need to somehow get off is the front cover.

I nice trick I actually taught myself after 5 million attempts to get that %&"¤#!! pangasket to stay on my 56 Fleetwood was the following.

I used real thin sowing thread and tied the gasket in place thru each and every hole in the pan. This way I could play around with the pan as much as I wanted and it would stay. After I got the pan bolts in place, I cut of the threads with a sharp knife, and ..voila!! I was in business.

[dadscad]

Brian,

Years ago, I bought a universal fit tool made to install the balancer. It consists of an assortment of long hardened bolts that screw into the crankshaft, a hardened nut and a bearing and some heavy flat washers. A washer goes against the balancer boss then the bearing outer race fits against the washer and the nut pushes on the bearing inner race. After you get the balancer in position with the key slot and key on the crankshaft, all you have to do is turn the nut against the bearing with a wrench and the balancer slides right on the crank.

If you can't find the tool in a local auto supply, you should be able to rig up the parts from scrap pieces, hardware or auto supply stores.

Good Luck,
David
clc14765

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Guys,
On the issue of Harmonic Balancer removal and replacement.  You are probably aware that Cadillac seems to be the only Mfg. that uses four bolts on the damper to hold the damper pulley.  You may also note that most "universal" damper tools are set up for three bolts.
In the shop manual of all years with this feature, Cadillac references a special tool, manufactured by Kentmore for this task.  Kentmore is still in business (SPC Corporation) and they have a version still available.  Costs a couple of hundred bucks and it took about 4 months for mine to show up, but if you are going to be doing any damper removal/replacement OR on the later models where there is a crank hub behind the un-boltable damper (pulley actually),
it is the best money you will ever spend.
Regarding pulling the timing cover with a broken bolt through it without pulling the pan just remember that new or even serviceable timing covers are near non existent so a little extra time can prevent the (essentially) loss of an otherwise good engine.
Just a thought (or two)
Greg

[Brian Daum]

Hi Greg, Luc and all!

I managed tonight to get the front cover off. It sure helps to loosen ALL the bolts.    There were two of the in the dirt that I didn`t see first.  After careful knocking with a hammer and using a prybar it came loose. That made my day!

Now I will continue with the broken bolt tomorrow.

I wouldn`t mind getting the special tool from Kentmore. Do you have a part number on that tool?
But if it takes 4 months to get, I`m in a hurry and can`t wait that long.

[Brian Daum]

Greg,

This must be the company that sells the tool, isn`t it?

https://gmspecialservicetools.spx.com/SearchTools.aspx

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

That's it Brian.  You need to contact them directly to order what you need, if they still can supply it.  I bought my about 14 years ago.
Greg

[Brian Daum]

I got the broken bolt off today!! Took a vice grip, played around with it for a while, and it finally came loose.  That certainly made things easier.

When it comes to putting the balancer back on again I plan to heat it up, and I see the center of the crankshaft is threaded, so I guess it will work well to screw it back on.  Any comments?

[1964deville]

Hi Brian,

Heating up the balancer will cause the rubber inside it to melt. So I don't think that's an option....Hope somebody can confirm this.

Good to hear everything came off! Have a nice weekend.

Luc

[Brian Daum]

Hi Brian,

Heating up the balancer will cause the rubber inside it to melt. So I don't think that's an option....Hope somebody can confirm this.

Good to hear everything came off! Have a nice weekend.

Luc

Hi Luc,

I was concerned about that as well, but I would probably not heat it to the extent that the rubber melted. Rubber melts at a certain temperature, and I would try to avoid to heat it that much. If I use the stove I can control the heat.

[35-709]

Heating the balancer is basically a no-no for the reasons given.  Most you might do is paint it black and put it in the hot sun, which isn't an option for most right now.

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

NO reason to heat it. Read the shop manual re installation. It says use a crankshaft balancer bolt. The only problem is... 62 was the last year Cadillac provided one. 63 & later, you got a cork plug. So... you need to find a local friend that will loan you one. I'm sure it's come kind of special thread. HTH, Bob

[bill henry]

i believe its 9/16 NF

[Mike Welch]

This should help
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Cadillac_6364_club/msearch?query=harmonic+balancer&submit=Search&charset=ISO-8859-1

[Brian Daum]

Thanks Guys!

I think I`ll try the 9/16 UNF.

Now finding one of those here in Norway is as common as bird`s teeth....