Goodbye Pontiac!

[David #19063]

Personally, if I were to be in the market for a new car, I wouldn't buy anything brand new.  Cars a few years old still have so much life left in them (assumning reasonable care by the previous owner).  The new car smell is just too expensive a brand of perfume.

Yes, when you can pick up a 2-3 year old car, especially luxury cars, with 5,000 - 25,000 miles on it for around 50% of sticker, why buy new?

Get a full size fully loaded luxury model for the price of a moderately equipped midsize car.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

BUT, someone has to purchase the car in the first place so that it can be available on the second-hand market.

Bruce.

[Wynn Moore]

  Personally, if I were to be in the market for a new car, I wouldn't buy anything brand new.  Cars a few years old still have so much life left in them (assumning reasonable care by the previous owner).  The new car smell is just too expensive a brand of perfume.

So very true.  With the sales tax on a new Cadillac being around $3500, it hardly makes buying new a good idea.

[Wynn Moore]

BUT, someone has to purchase the car in the first place so that it can be available on the second-hand market.

Bruce.

Fortunately for the astute among us, there are more people willing to spend the money for new, then us, who realize the value of purchasing "previously owned".

[David #19063]

Plus, in my state and some other states, annual registration and tags can cost around $600 per year for a new Cadillac...as it is based on the car's cost.

[Wynn Moore]

Plus, in my state and some other states, annual registration and tags can cost around $600 per year for a new Cadillac...as it is based on the car's cost.

What state is that?  Most states base their fees on weight of the vehicle.

[David #19063]

Indiana.

[Derek]

I've owned mostly used, 20+ year old American cars.  Had over 30 of them since I started driving.

In 2007 I finally got to where I could buy a new car.  I bought a 2007 Dodge Dakota.  When I quit teaching I sold it to dad because he needed a truck.  It had 8k on the clock.  By 11k the transmission needed a "flash" for the TCM because it was going into limp mode on the highway.  I diagnosed the problem and told dad to take it in and ask them to check TSB's to see if anything applied.

I have a 2008 Dodge Caliber.  Purchased new 12/21/07 with 4 miles on it.  In February the blower motor ate itself -- bearings went out and it squealed like a dying cat.  Warranty covered it, took 2 weeks to get the part and get it installed.

In March the vacuum booster ATE itself.  Huge sucking vacuum leak you could feel right behind the pedal.  I called the dealership, they couldn't get me in for 4 days...I drove it in later that day as it got worse and basically played dumb -- "Is this a safety issue?  Is it safe to drive this until Friday?"  All of a sudden they had a tech free to look at it.

Still took almost 2 weeks to get the part and get it installed.  Never got called with updates -- when I'd call in, I'd be told "We don't know anything, we're still waiting, we'll call you."  In 8 years and over 30 cars, all of which were 10-30+ years old, I have NEVER had a vacuum booster go bad.  Ever.

Now it's close to 35k on the clock and the warranty will expire at 36k.  I'm upside down in it and so I can't trade out...But I'd think twice before buying another Dodge, or any American car.  The dealerships especially make it feel like I'm p***ing in their Wheaties when I take it in for warranty service.  I do most all of my own work myself as I was a former MD State licensed inspection tech and a service advisor.

I think I'll drive this one til it stops and the next car I get will be used, for sure.

[Wynn Moore]

Indiana.

Unbelievable! I just did a quick look at their website and it looks like they got all types of fees attached to registration, wheel tax, surcharge etc.

[Jim Salmi #21340]

It seems that as often and not, when I hear stories like that, it's a Chrysler product.  I hear Chrysler owners over and over say that they love the car when it's behaving itself (big if!!) BUT that they almost universally hate their dealer.  The Chrysler dealers in this area (Denver, Colorado) have been weak for years.  Ever since I can remember, when we've have some big "scandal" involving sleazy business practices, it's almost invariably a Chrysler product.  If that is typical, it has to be a big part of their current problems.  Honda was smart enough to figure out early on that dealer quality was critical to the ownership experience.  If the car has a problem, fix it quickly and competently and don't jerk the customer around.  People talk at cocktail parties and the word gets around.  I wonder if the American industry and dealer network is so rooted in the early blacksmith/horse trader culture that it will never, ever change.  Imagine how much fun it will be to get your problems fixed when you're arguing with Italy.

[Derek]

I worked at this dealership, and in this case, the biggest problem was the service department.  I was a service advisor, and our service manager was a total doooooosh.  No one liked him, he treated customers like crap, and if you didn't buy the car there originally, he would personally stonewall your warranty service -- move you to the bottom of the board, etc.

I have not heard as much bad about other Chrysler dealers in this area.  Our techs were phenomenal though.  The Jeep dealership where I bought the ex-wife's 2007 Jeep Liberty was good to deal with, never had a problem with the car or them since I never saw them after I bought the car, LOL.  They have since bought the Dodge dealership and the Chrysler dealership in this area so maybe they're better now...

[dadscad]

Worst car I ever owned.....1977 Fiat Spider that I bought new. Traded in a very clean 1967 Buick Skylark convertible on it....yeah young and dumb! Wish I still had the Skylark but the wife wanted that Fiat! I guess there was a bad omen on that Fiat, I bought it in Memphis. When the wife and I arrived at the Dealer, first thing the salesman said, did you know Elvis died today?

The Spider was a blast to drive but we were fed up with it after two years and I sold it. Ironically, after I handed the buyer the keys and title, he was about to drive off, he said, sure hope this wasn't a mistake....................

David

[Guidematic]

That's it, many people still have a very bad taste in their mouths from Fiat's last foray into our market. The product was so bad that they were driven off shore and they were never able to return.

So, how many will take this into consideration when they are in the market for a new car? That remains to be seen. I think there are still plenty enough people around that have either first hand experience with those products, or those that know full well how bad the cars really were.

Mike

[David #19063]

Unbelievable! I just did a quick look at their website and it looks like they got all types of fees attached to registration, wheel tax, surcharge etc.

Yes, Wynn, Indiana does charge a lot for registration fees.

[Otto Skorzeny]

Georgia is the same way. The Ad Valurum tax will kill you unless you drive a very old car. The Ad Valorum on my truck and my Cadillac is $20 each. I know people with new Jaguars or BMWs that pay in the thousands. That's every year!

The governor was trying to get a law through the legislature this year which would end the ad valurum tax and replace it with a one time registration fee. You would have to tell them how much you paid for the car when you transferred the title into your name and pay a fee based on the value.

I don't know it that passed or not. Even though it's a more reasonable way to do it, I'm better off like it is because I don't own or buy cars built after 1972.

[Rusty Shepherd CLC 6397]

That's it, many people still have a very bad taste in their mouths from Fiat's last foray into our market. The product was so bad that they were driven off shore and they were never able to return.

A large and well-respected family-owned Pontiac/GMC dealership near me took on Fiat in the '70's when they were foisting something called the Strada on the American market.  A friend of mine bought one and had unadulterated hell with it before practically giving it away on a trade.  The dealership dropped Fiat a year or two later before it did too much harm to their excellent reputation and replaced it with Subaru.

[Jim Salmi #21340]

Georgia is the same way. The Ad Valurum tax will kill you unless you drive a very old car. The Ad Valorum on my truck and my Cadillac is $20 each. I know people with new Jaguars or BMWs that pay in the thousands. That's every year!

The governor was trying to get a law through the legislature this year which would end the ad valurum tax and replace it with a one time registration fee. You would have to tell them how much you paid for the car when you transferred the title into your name and pay a fee based on the value.

I don't know it that passed or not. Even though it's a more reasonable way to do it, I'm better off like it is because I don't own or buy cars built after 1972.

In the $thousands EVERY year?  How in the world do they get away with that?  I would think the public would be fit to be tied. 

[Wynn Moore]

In the $thousands EVERY year?  How in the world do they get away with that?  I would think the public would be fit to be tied. 

I was thinking the same thing.

[Otto Skorzeny]

Yes. I kid you not.

20 years ago, when I was just out of college, one of my customers had a new Jaguar. He paid over $800 for license plate every year. I had a Dodge Dakota pickup that was around $200+ per year.

When I sold the truck 15 years later, my tags still cost about $75.

My brother has a new Buick Lucerne and paid $400 for his tags last November. They cost $500 the first year he got it.

People with high dollar Mercedes Benz, BMWs, etc. pay much much more.

[Guidematic]

With all the so-called clunker laws that every govenment tries to push on us every year, you'd think that tax would be abolished poste haste. It gives a huge incentive to keep your old cars so you don't get raped with those insane registration fees every year.

I thought ours were getting high, but they are a pittance compared to that. Every car, new or old, cheapie or high line luxo barge pay the same $75 per year.

Mike