To restore or not?

[veesixteen]

As I recall, Roger, the power windows on your 1:12 scale Toronado are operated by pushing on the minuscule window switch with a pin. 
Yes, you definitely are more mad than me (...and I was hit in the head by a speeding Army jeep when I was six!)

WHAT A TALENT YOU HAVE!!!  I think you are even more skilled than the late Michele Conti, of Italy. Michele’s erarly models were made of wood, then he went to aluminum.  He used similar materials to those used in the construction of the full scale cars.  Like yours, the interiors were reproduced in genuine upholstery materials, including leather. The tires were cast from rubber from miniature molds he made of the originals.  Most of his 1/10th scale models included opening hood, trunk, doors, a detailed engine, cockpit, and interior details ...but I don't think ANY of his models had FUNCTIONAL power windows !!!

__________________________________

Roger,

I do hope your friend didn't try to blame his drinking on the massive amount of work he was doing on your car up to the stage he was caught?

Seeing what has been done up to this stage could have caused people to have gone "off the rails" well before this.

But, at least, with all your assisting him, you did learn a thing or two about his trade.   Being self-taught by helping is a wonderful accomplishment.

Bruce.

Don't worry Bruce! My friend was just there to weld and do difficult sheet metal forming; I did the "ugly" work with spot weld drilling, rust removal, adjustment of parts...Furtermore, I was not totally neophyte with metal work: it was part of my apprenticeship more than 40 years ago; shortly after, I worked for 2 years in a body shop. However, without practice, the skills are going away. Usually they come back rather quickly if it's necessary!
By the way, while I was working on the Biarritz, everybody ask me "and after this one, what car will you restore?" my answer was all the time "no more, I have no space anymore!" which is partly true. As I have yet to discover how it's possible to drive more than one car at thesame  time, I decided that 3 Cadillacs in the garage was enough. Furthermore, with the age, the floor is lower and lower!
Now, I came back to my first love: model car building. No, no: not the ones you can buy at the store and assemble: doing a car from scratch. Like a difficult restoration, it takes years to finish ONE model. What am I doing now? a reconstruction of a Studebaker Avanti at the scale 1:12. I began 4 years ago, I still have one or 2 years until completed. You want to see samples? OK, 2 pictures as they are not Cadillacs: Olds Toronado (1:12) and one recent picture from the Avanti at work. On the models, you can open the doors, trunk lid, hood, ash trays and so on. The side windows are electric on the Toro, they are manual on the Avanti. Most of the body is made with polyester; frame and chrome parts are made with brass.
I know, I'm mad. I had a bad accident when I was 15 years old: I fell on the head.

[35-709]

WOW!  Some incredible workmanship there --- on the big and the little cars!  Maybe you should do a model of the Biarritz next.

[Roger Zimmermann]

WOW!  Some incredible workmanship there --- on the big and the little cars!  Maybe you should do a model of the Biarritz next.

Well, I don't believe. I have no idea what I will do when the Avanti is ready; I never ask me such question as the task or job or whatever is coming itself...

By the way: it's much more easy to go from small to large as the contrary. The switch to scale model to real car has some problem: you need a lot of space, things are heavy but you don't need microscope (I don't have one) to see the screws. I remember when I began to restore the de Ville, I could not continue during wintertime because of the cold temperature, so I tried to continue the Toronado. At that time, I had real problems with such small pieces, small screws and so on...

For Yann: you are correct, to operate the window's motors, I have to use a pin or semeting thin enough to push the corresponding switch.
I know the name of Conti; unfortunately, I never saw one of his models. It seems that he earn his money with that; I may be wrong. If I should make a living with model building, they could never be as complex as they are now. Who can afford to spend 20 years for ONE model? only mad people!

[Roger Zimmermann]

As everybody knows, a car is not only a frame and body. There are also mechanical little things which permit the thing to move.
Once I had all the parts for the engine, the block was sent to a mechanical shop to bore it, adjust new pistons (.030 oversize) and grind the main journal of the crankshaft at .010. I did myself the remaining assembly; unfortunately, I have no pictures as I had some for the same work on the de Ville and Brougham.
I did also the overhaul of the transmission. The one I bought was no more good (I don't remember what was wrong) and, with 3 transmissions I managed to do one. It was the second transmission I ever overhauled (the first one was for the de Ville some years earlier); I was absolutely not sure if my work was good. This transmission was bought in 1991, I revised it in 1996...

During June 1996, I could apply a color coat to the firewall. When the firewall is painted, it means that the assembly of revised or new parts is not far away!

[Roger Zimmermann]

During the same period, I began the work on the front fender. The ones on the cars were not bad looking at first glance. Unfortunately, they had been "protected" with a heavy coat of underbody material. It was a stupid investment: the water flowed at the joints in the motor bay and could not escape due to the thick material. The result: rust again.
With 2 other front fenders, I could rescue enough pieces to have a pair of inner wheelhouses. The separate parts were sandblasted and primed prior to assembly by welding.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Once the wheelhouses ready, the next task was to weld them to the front fender, as shown.

As noted earlier, the frame was in excellent condition. There was some surface rust at the rear of it, but nothing serious. A good friend with a truck and proper equipment to load it on the bed forwarded it to the company who did the sandblasting and primer. Of course, the good friend took it back to my shop when the frame was ready.

I expected to spray the black coat outside; halas, as it is often in Switzerland, the weather was not good at all. The added logistic problems coinvinced me that I had to do the paint inside. I had to form a boot with plastic foil as other cars were stored inside...
I have to admit that the black coat on the frame is not my best job...But, who cares?

[baxterculver]

Roger,

I do hope your friend didn't try to blame his drinking on the massive amount of work he was doing on your car up to the stage he was caught?

Seeing what has been done up to this stage could have caused people to have gone "off the rails" well before this.

But, at least, with all your assisting him, you did learn a thing or two about his trade.   Being self-taught by helping is a wonderful accomplishment.

Bruce.

Don't worry Bruce! My friend was just there to weld and do difficult sheet metal forming; I did the "ugly" work with spot weld drilling, rust removal, adjustment of parts...Furtermore, I was not totally neophyte with metal work: it was part of my apprenticeship more than 40 years ago; shortly after, I worked for 2 years in a body shop. However, without practice, the skills are going away. Usually they come back rather quickly if it's necessary!
By the way, while I was working on the Biarritz, everybody ask me "and after this one, what car will you restore?" my answer was all the time "no more, I have no space anymore!" which is partly true. As I have yet to discover how it's possible to drive more than one car at thesame  time, I decided that 3 Cadillacs in the garage was enough. Furthermore, with the age, the floor is lower and lower!
Now, I came back to my first love: model car building. No, no: not the ones you can buy at the store and assemble: doing a car from scratch. Like a difficult restoration, it takes years to finish ONE model. What am I doing now? a reconstruction of a Studebaker Avanti at the scale 1:12. I began 4 years ago, I still have one or 2 years until completed. You want to see samples? OK, 2 pictures as they are not Cadillacs: Olds Toronado (1:12) and one recent picture from the Avanti at work. On the models, you can open the doors, trunk lid, hood, ash trays and so on. The side windows are electric on the Toro, they are manual on the Avanti. Most of the body is made with polyester; frame and chrome parts are made with brass.
I know, I'm mad. I had a bad accident when I was 15 years old: I fell on the head.

Your work is incredible!  I have neither the skill, patience or eyesight to attempt such detail.  Commendable!
I happen to own a 1964 Avanti (R-1) that is original.  Looking at your model, I didn't see the access hatch that is located in the package tray behind the rear seats and above the trunk.  It allows limited access to the trunk (boot) without getting out of the car.  I can give you pictures if you need.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Your work is incredible!  I have neither the skill, patience or eyesight to attempt such detail.  Commendable!
I happen to own a 1964 Avanti (R-1) that is original.  Looking at your model, I didn't see the access hatch that is located in the package tray behind the rear seats and above the trunk.  It allows limited access to the trunk (boot) without getting out of the car.  I can give you pictures if you need.

Thank you for the offer! I have enough pictures from that detail; I'm also in touch with the Avanti club! The model is far from complete; the space between the back window and the fixed shelf above the gas tank is not yet constructed as I need the open space during the construction.
If you would like to see the story of this model, you may go here: http://www.accf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4191 The text is in French, but pictures are universal! You will have to scroll down to see the pictures as there are many comments. You may also not understand  why suddenly there are trim details in red and also in blue. In fact, I constructed this Avanti model between 1963 and 1965. When I was put in early retirement (thank you GM!), I wanted to "refresh" the model and improve some details. At the end, it's almost a new construction...
I'm sure that veesixteen know that topic as he goes also to the ACCF forum. ACCF = American Car Club France.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Bit after bit...Now the frame is almost completely assembled. The front springs are not yet installed as I need the weight of the engine to install them without too much trouble.
I'm especially satisfied with the wheels. I could almost write a book in regard to the plating of the 5 wheels.  First, I sent only one wheel to a known plater in the USA, country of unlimited possibilities. It was not cheap (it's a Cadillac after all); when plated, the wheel was sent to an hotel in the States: I was there for 5 weeks for GM. In my luggage, I took 2 other wheel to send to the plater. When the plated wheel came to the hotel, I was really nervous to see what was done. It was a huge deception. On the visible part, the chrome was good; however, it was already peeling at the back! I don't remember exactly what was done with the plater; anyway, all the wheels came back to Switzerland and I got no refund.
I took contact with a plater in Switzerland and showed him the "good" work made in USA. He suggested to do again the wheel already plated and as I had 5 of them, he could construct a device to have a good chrome plating. After some months, the wheel was done and it was fantastic. Also expensive, but a much better quality of what I had from the States.
Dear American people,  I will do now a nasty remark: you may have the best products in the world, but why most of your companies are unable to repair corectly components? It could be because there are more artisans in Europe than in the US, with a longer tradition, who knows. I tried several time to have something repaired in the US, it was most of the time a disaster. Another example: during vacation in Florida, I took the Delco-Moraine brake booster with me to let repair it at one of the advertisers in Hemmings.
The booster came back to Switzerland after a while, very good looking. I was curious to see what would happen with some brake fluid in it. I pured some fluid and pumped the rod. I don't know what happened inside: no oil came out. After disassembly of that booster, I saw lots of RTV sealant and a mess inside. At the end, I did the repair myself. Why had I the stupid idea that Americans can do it better?
Sorry again for those nasty remarks...

Now the engine and transmission are installed. The valve covers and air cleaner are not yet painted with the correct color. We are already in October or November...

[Roger Zimmermann]

It's now time to install the various little parts cleaned or plated. After a while, the firewall is ready.
The dash board is also installed. At the last minute, I'm not satisfied with the large chrome part which come across the front panel. Something more to work on it...
The speedometer was in miles; I let engrave a plexiglass plate with km. The odometer stays in miles.

[Roger Zimmermann]

I was not yet completely ready with sheet metal: the door were waiting. The ones on the car were really bad. I contacted a known supplier in the USA, (he do advertise in the Self-Starter) he said that he had a good pair of doors. I asked again about rust and he said that he spent the whole Sunday with his son to inspect them and they are excellent. OK, please ship them!
Well, I don't know what for glasses he had at the time; maybe the ones to observe a sun's eclipse: they were as bad as mines (or they rusted in the plane). So with 4 doors, I could do 2, but I had to weld some new sheetmetal; the lower outside panels were also made from scratch for both doors. Are you surprised if I don't buy anything anymore at this location?

[Peter Nieuwlandt]

Roger

On the Delco Moraine brake booster,I know wich business You're talking about and I agree with You on this one,but to go as far as You to say that nobody knows how to repair this stuff in the US is really over the top !!!!
I strongly disagree with You on this one. Ok some business make a mess of it but then others really do correct repair work at correct prices!!!!
True You have to do Your homework and find out from fellow restorers where to sent Your parts to be rebuilt but that's what clubs as our own CLC are all about!!!!
Same thing with parts,again ask here on this forum for references and You'll get the info!!!!

Work done in the US can be and is excellent when You work with a reputable business but like all around the world the guys with the biggest ads and best prices can be the biggest rip off's!!!

Peter     

Bit after bit...Now the frame is almost completely assembled. The front springs are not yet installed as I need the weight of the engine to install them without too much trouble.
I'm especially satisfied with the wheels. I could almost write a book in regard to the plating of the 5 wheels.  First, I sent only one wheel to a known plater in the USA, country of unlimited possibilities. It was not cheap (it's a Cadillac after all); when plated, the wheel was sent to an hotel in the States: I was there for 5 weeks for GM. In my luggage, I took 2 other wheel to send to the plater. When the plated wheel came to the hotel, I was really nervous to see what was done. It was a huge deception. On the visible part, the chrome was good; however, it was already peeling at the back! I don't remember exactly what was done with the plater; anyway, all the wheels came back to Switzerland and I got no refund.
I took contact with a plater in Switzerland and showed him the "good" work made in USA. He suggested to do again the wheel already plated and as I had 5 of them, he could construct a device to have a good chrome plating. After some months, the wheel was done and it was fantastic. Also expensive, but a much better quality of what I had from the States.
Dear American people,  I will do now a nasty remark: you may have the best products in the world, but I will never, never again let do a repair in the USA, your people are unable to do it right. I tried several time to have something repaired, it was each time a disaster. Another example: during vacation in Florida, I took the Delco-Moraine brake booster with me to let repair it at one of the advertisers in Hemmings.
The booster came back to Switzerland after a while, very good looking. I was curious to see what would happen with some brake fluid in it. I pured some fluid and pumped the rod. I don't know what happened inside: no oil came out. After disassembly of that booster, I saw lots of RTV sealant and a mess inside. At the end, I did the repair myself. Why had I the stupid idea that Americans can do it better?
Sorry again for those nasty remarks...

Now the engine and transmission are installed. The valve covers and air cleaner are not yet painted with the correct color. We are already in October or November...

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

I was not yet completely ready with sheet metal: the door were waiting. The ones on the car were really bad. I contacted a known supplier in the USA, (he do advertise in the Self-Starter) he said that he had a good pair of doors. I asked again about rust and he said that he spent the whole Sunday with his son to inspect them and they are excellent. OK, please ship them!
Well, I don't know what for glasses he had at the time; maybe the ones to observe a sun's eclipse: they were as bad as mines (or they rusted in the plane). So with 4 doors, I could do 2, but I had to weld some new sheetmetal; the lower outside panels were also made from scratch for both doors. Are you surprised if I don't buy anything anymore at this location?

G'day Roger,

I too have found that a lot of Americans think differently about Rust than us Aliens.

The number of times I have heard about something being "Rust-free", only to find that the vehicle, or part was that badly rusted that it shouldn't have been accepted for export is not funny.

One person told me "It is only surface rust, and if necessary, a simply replacing of the Rear Quarter will fix it", is not good enough.

Bruce.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Roger

On the Delco Moraine brake booster,I know wich business You're talking about and I agree with You on this one,but to go as far as You to say that nobody knows how to repair this stuff in the US is really over the top !!!!
I strongly disagree with You on this one. Ok some business make a mess of it but then others really do correct repair work at correct prices!!!!
True You have to do Your homework and find out from fellow restorers where to sent Your parts to be rebuilt but that's what clubs as our own CLC are all about!!!!
Same thing with parts,again ask here on this forum for references and You'll get the info!!!!

Work done in the US can be and is excellent when You work with a reputable business but like all around the world the guys with the biggest ads and best prices can be the biggest rip off's!!!

Peter     

Thank you for your remark, Peter. After I wrote that text, I realized that it was too hard and unfair. Therefore, I did some modifications in my sentence. By the way, I wrote something which is not true: I'm sending on a regular basis water pumps for repair to Terrill Machine and heater valves to Old Air Products. I used also to buy restored antennas from Klaus Wojak. This man is doing an incredible job with his vacuum and electric antennas. Unfortunately, he is 70 years old or more; he will not continue this business for a long time. Who will replace him?
Another good experience was with "Booster Dewey". His repairs are not high tech, but at least the booster is functionning as intended.
Then, you have to think about the period I did these unfortunate experiences: end of the 80s, early 90s. Internet? No way. Who had a fax then? few companies. A letter? yes, I wrote many, but you cannot share experiences with people like it's possible now with that forum. Most of the experiences I gained during those 25 years were usually made the hard way, trying something, be either positively or negatively surprised and so on...As I still do business with people in the USA, it means that the positive experiences outnumbered the other ones.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Then, you have to think about the period I did these unfortunate experiences: end of the 80s, early 90s. Internet? No way. Who had a fax then? few companies. A letter? yes, I wrote many, but you cannot share experiences with people like it's possible now with that forum. Most of the experiences I gained during those 25 years were usually made the hard way, trying something, be either positively or negatively surprised and so on...As I still do business with people in the USA, it means that the positive experiences outnumbered the other ones.   

G'day Roger,

Boy, you are totally correct.   

I purchased a Fax back in the 80's because I got sick and tired of writing letters, waiting for replies, and continuing on back and forth, till I got the answers I wanted.

Using the phone was really hard, not because of the cost, but I couldn't talk slow enough for the persons on the other end to understand me.   Plus, I had to ring well after midnight, due to the time differences, and I really like my sleep.   Trying to spell out my address was something else.   Here we say any letters together, like "LL" as Double L, whereas the Americans say "L" and "L".   Didn't find this out till '02.   You should have seen the packages that I received, and the way they were addressed.   In fact, sometimes I think I was lucky to receive them.

At least, with the Fax, things went faster, and I am sure that the receiver treated any request via a Fax with more importance, as you say, Faxes weren't that common.

Bruce.

[Roger Zimmermann]

G'day Roger,

Boy, you are totally correct.   

I purchased a Fax back in the 80's because I got sick and tired of writing letters, waiting for replies, and continuing on back and forth, till I got the answers I wanted.

Using the phone was really hard, not because of the cost, but I couldn't talk slow enough for the persons on the other end to understand me.   Plus, I had to ring well after midnight, due to the time differences, and I really like my sleep.   Trying to spell out my address was something else.   Here we say any letters together, like "LL" as Double L, whereas the Americans say "L" and "L".   Didn't find this out till '02.   You should have seen the packages that I received, and the way they were addressed.   In fact, sometimes I think I was lucky to receive them.

At least, with the Fax, things went faster, and I am sure that the receiver treated any request via a Fax with more importance, as you say, Faxes weren't that common.

Bruce.

Bruce, at least in Europe the time difference is not that a problem: usually, I can phone between 3 et 6 PM, depending that location. Due to my English with french accent, I don't dare to transmit my address over the phone: the street and town names are German, you may imagine what kind of salad this can give!
I had the good fortune to have access to my employer's fax; at certain period it was helpful. Before faxes were used, it was the telex...Almost no one had that system...It was either the phone or a letter to reach people.

[Roger Zimmermann]

The great day arrived! On April 12 1997, I could put the body on the frame. The way I did it was a little bit criminal with blocks of wood on top of the jack stands. I had to go under the body to lift it and put the wood blocks on the other side as the body was near to the wall. Some say: to make life interesting, you have to take one risk each day. With this, I took a risk for the whole year!
Fortunately, even if the whole was very unstable, nothing happens. Eyes must be overall: is the frame in the middle of the body? nothing is touching the body? (especially with my "construction") engine? transmission?

[Roger Zimmermann]

At the end of the afternoon, the body was on the frame, attached with the screws.It beginns again to look like a car!

The next step was to assemble all the body parts and begin with filling, sanding, etc. A long and annoying work.

[Roger Zimmermann]

The fist picture shows the rear bumper installed. This operation was necessary to check the aperture.

July 1998: Once I was ready with the outside of the body, I could spray some paint on the inside panels. I know that the factory did not paint so much inside parts, but once I have a pray gun in the hand (and enough paint) I'm not to be stopped!

[Barry]

I can't wait to see your post each day. Your craftsmanship is incredible ! Please keep them coming !!!!  Barry