General shop repair expectations?

[67_Eldo]

Steven,

What you describe is what happened in my first (and still worst) Eldorado repair fiasco.

Although I grew up in Kansas City, I hadn't lived there for 20+ years by the time I moved back and bought the Eldorado.

A shop I'd remembered and patronized in my youth for "exotic" car work (e.g. front-end alignment on my 1966 Mini Cooper S [always with the front-wheel drive!]) was still in business and three of the "old" guys still worked there. But their business had just been purchased by two young guys. I thought that, particularly regarding a 1967 Eldorado, old-guy wisdom would prevail over young-guy shenanigans. I was very wrong, to the tune of tens of thousands of $$ and months of time.

I have no intention of returning, ever.

This time I picked a well-reviewed shop (on social media) that claimed (during the estimation process) they weren't that busy. Two days after they got my car, they were now "slammed."

If a business owner is committed to lying, there's not much you can do in advance. In retrospect, it is obvious that the good social-media reviews came primarily from plants and not genuine customers.

It boggles my mind that any shop owners would work this way, but I guess there are fewer penalties for misbehavior than I thought.

Thanks!

[cadillacmike68]

67_Eldo, I feel for what you are going through. I have been there done that.

Last year I took my car to a shop who provide me great service for the past 10 years. I trusted the shop based on previous experience.  That changed.

The previous shop foreman retired and also the old school mechanic. The business owner's son, who had been just a worker, now was thrust into running the business. As evident from recent experience, he has no skills in running a business. He doesn't manage each section of the business but allows them to do whatever is needed to correct a problem, whatever it may cost a customer.

Example: The now mechanic worked on my carburetor, taking it on and off and disassembling it multiple times at the tune of $1700. At what point was someone, in this case should have been the now manager, going to decide that a factory correct rebuilt carburetor should be installed at $400.

Example: The now manager repainted my hood with modeling showing in the sun. He said he didn't think it looked right to him and I asked him why would he think it would look right to me. He was hoping I would accept it and he wouldn't have to redo it. Come to find out there wasn't enough paint so he tried to thin what paint was there too much. More paint was ordered, 1 quart at $300, and he repainted it a second time.

It should be noted that I was attending an AACA event out of town and wanted to be assured everything was ok before the trip. I had noticed some performance issues and had insurance cover repainting my hood because of road chips. I contacted the shop, set a budget and time frame. When all was said and done it cost me 250% of the original budget and 300% more time. The now manager didn't discuss with me neither the increase in cost or time frame.

The now manager actually got testy with me and wanted me to take my car and get out. I calmed him down enough so I got the work corrected and finished. After I took my car home, the hood was still out of adjustment. I took it back and he fixed it right then and there in short order. Before I left he asked me if we were alright. He knew he had messed up and hoped I was happy with the final work completed. I wasn't happy with all the drama and what I had to endure. I will NEVER go back. I have spent literarily tens of thousands of dollars there.

I am a previous business owner and understand what it takes. What I am seeing is retiring experienced workers and businesses attempting to go on. Eventually they close because of poor service. I believe consumers are willing to pay for work well done. More and more I see a lack of pride in workmanship in every area of service not just ours.

Steve,

This isn't same shop in Tarpon that you gave the name to me is it? Or is it??

What does this mean:
...repainted my hood with modeling showing in the sun.

Some kind of paint error, but what specifically.

And,

What insurance company paid to have your hood repainted because of road chips??

A recent Hemmings article , I believe, featured advice from an attorney to get a contract with the shop, pointing out,  requested work, quality and time frame of work completion and a payment schedule.. With this in hand you have legal recourse when issues arise.

That's also a good way to scare off many shops. Perhaps some, many, or even all such shops don't deserve our business, but then again, walking into a business with a virtual sledgehammer is not always the way to go about fostering a good business relationship. And it IS business.

[savemy67]

Hello all,

One of the problems with reviews is, how do we know if the reviewer has the experience to make a considered review?  In this regard, I have often thought about Angie's List.

Angie's List's claim to fame seems to be that consumers comment on their experience with contractors and businesses, and a favorable or unfavorable review/recommendation ensues.

If a roofer shows up on time, is neatly attired, and speaks well, an Angie's List reviewer might provide a good review without knowing the first thing about roofing.  Just because a repair shop is well reviewed, there is no rational reason to expect that your car will be guaranteed to receive expert care.

We all love our cars.  And our expectations are high.  I think it is important to establish expectations whenever we engage the services of a repair shop.  to this end, the more you know about your car, the better you can establish realistic expectations with a repair shop.  Equally as important, the more you know about your car, the better equipped you will be to "qualify" any shop about to undertake work on your car.

I have had to go into the service bay to show repair techs how to use the key for the lug nuts on my Impala.  I have been into the service bay to show repair techs how to hoist a car that has a separate (from the body) frame.  I have been into the service bay to tell repair techs that there are three axes (camber, caster, toe) to the alignment of an SLA front suspension.  I am chagrined that anyone would have the temerity to charge someone $1700 to rebuild a carburetor - regardless of how many times it was done.

I am an advocate of knowing as much about my cars s possible - whether or not I do the work myself.  As they say, fore-warned is fore-armed.  The point being that if you have knowledge about your car, and you are dealing with a reputable business owner, you should be able to come to a common understanding of what will be done, for how much, in what period of time.

Respectfully submitted,
Christopher Winter

[Dave Shepherd]

Steve,

This isn't same shop in Tarpon that you gave the name to me is it? Or is it??

What does this mean:
...repainted my hood with modeling showing in the sun.

Some kind of paint error, but what specifically.

And,

What insurance company paid to have your hood repainted because of road chips??



That's also a good way to scare off many shops. Perhaps some, many, or even all such shops don't deserve our business, but then again, walking into a business with a virtual sledgehammer is not always the way to go about fostering a good business relationship. And it IS business.

I am doing hobby shop type  restoration work, I always make it very clear what we are doing and approximste cost and time frame. We only do mechanical work, no body work.  It is major body restoration where the " paint jail" issue seems to be problematic. If you cannot get some kind of written agreement with a body shop, don't leave the car.

[67_Eldo]

In retrospect, I think I should have asked for a reasonably detailed estimate of the repairs. If it was a shop I was familiar with, then maybe I'd let that slide. CadillacMike, though, makes a good point: You don't necessarily want to begin a business relationship by (indirectly) assuming your new pal will rip you off. It's a delicate balance.

My lawyer hasn't gotten back to me yet. Grrr. But just now, driving home from getting breakfast, I saw the shop unload my car from the trailer and pull it into a bay. The sandblasting didn't reveal any new, gaping holes in the top's sheet metal, so I'm glad about that. So they said they'd be done in … about a week (the eighth time I've heard that). Oh well. At least I know where the car is now.

BTW, as I was surfing for car parts this morning, I found this quote that fellow 1967 Cadillac owners may or may not enjoy. :-)

"This beautiful ’67 Cadillac is about everything I’ve ever wanted, and then some! Low, sleazy, fast, quiet, gorgeous, and a drop dead candy paint job."

http://precisioncarrestoration.com/finished-projects/cadillac/1967-cadillac/

[Scot Minesinger]

Sadly, this is my experience with many shops and typical of what is posted on this forum.  I agree with most of the posters.

I do anything I can myself.  And I only employ very highly recommended shops from people with an understanding of mechanical, body or upholstery work - by that I mean my mentally challenged aunt's recommendation - no, my trusted cousin the automotive engineer - yes.

Some of us are part to blame too in that we expect way too much.  I work on friends cars after work, and keep the classics in a climate controlled garage on my property.  It is nothing to wait four days for a $40 part, and the car is tying up my garage.  That means that at a regular garage that might earn 3k per day per bay - say good buy to 12k in revenue - what garage is going to tolerate that??!!  I see both sides of this.

[bcroe]

It is nothing to wait four days for a $40 part, and the car is tying up my garage.  That means that at a regular garage that might earn 3k per day per bay - say good buy to 12k in revenue - what garage is going to tolerate that??!! 

Money matters, certainly my own efficiency would be unacceptable
commercially.  But the number one reason by far for doing my own
work, is to guarantee quality.  Bruce Roe