My brakes won't bleed!!!

[trcooperone]

I can't seem to figure out what I am doing wrong so I am going to some fresh minds.

I have a 1960 62 series with the morain style master cylinder. I got new seals and I am pretty sure they are installed right unless they where installed wrong from the previous owner (always an option).

I can not seem to build brake pressure to manually bleed the brakes.  I have a power bleeder and it won't suck the fluid through. I thought maybe a hole somewhere but I can find a leak where the guild is escaping.

I am assuming it is somewhere I the master where the fluid is bleeding by. On the cylinder that is connected to the booster there are two slots for seals. I have both seals facing the same way. They are a lip type seal and they are positioned so that the larger side faces the front of the car so as the cylinder goes I tho the master it would expand and push the fluid forward.

I hope I explained that so you all an understand, any help would be great!!!

[trcooperone]

I guess the simple question to my long post is do the two seals on the cylinder face the same or opposite directions?

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

In a word, yes, the lips of the rubbers have to face towards the pressure direction.   This allows the build-up of fluid pressure to expand the seal lips against the cylinder wall, thereby creating a tighter seal.

Bruce.

[Scot Minesinger]

You may need to look at the brake lines feeding each brake.  Are the rubber flex lines OK?, if in question they probably should be replaced (they clog, or restrict).  The metal lines rust sometimes from the inside out, I routinely replace those for 1970 and earlier without hesitation.  If the vacuum brake bleeder (at brake bleed valve) seems to draw a vacuum but no fluid, the line is compromised, and if a high vacuum is reached but no fluid, the line is clogged (or it could be both).  The way you wrote the question presuming you are drawing a vacuum at the brake rather than creating pressure at master and opening a brake bleed valve.

[trcooperone]

Yes I am using a vacuume at the brake, it appears there is air. It no fluid coming through the line. I guess the flex (rubber) lines have been comprised.

Very minimal fluid is present at the bleeder on each wheel but it will not push fluid through.



Where is a good source for these lines?

[russ austin]

Take the bleeders out and look for clogged holes. On a 50 plus year old car, it is a common thing to see.

[trcooperone]

All the bleeders have been removed and are not clogged. I can get the back of the bleeders wet with brake fluid and very MINIMAL amounts off fluid to come out but the system won't build up pressure or push fluid through the lines.

The system itself is clean just unused for 21 years. I guess I'll replace all the rubber lines.

Where is a good place to order these from?

[P. Manoogian]

A pin hole ANYWHERE in a single resevoir system will result in the problem you are having. Can't build pressure is there is a hole.

[trcooperone]

I gues the rubber lines are getting replaced, just need a good source for the lines.

I am assuming the rubber lines are original and appear to be dry with no leaks but probably the most likely place to have an issue

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

I would be starting from the longest line at the rear, and see if that can be purged of all fluid.   Then the next shortest, and so on till all the lines have been eliminated.

BUT, have you actually got pressure at the Master Cylinder when pressing the brake pedal?

If not, then the problem is there.

You might find yourself removing each Wheel Cylinder, stripping and re-packing with Rubber Grease, then the flexible hoses, etc, etc.

A system that has been sitting for 21 years is not going to be very nice, as Brake Fluid does like absorbing water from anywhere it can get it.

Bruce.

[trcooperone]

I have tried bleeding from the furthest point, passenger rear wheel, and I can not get flowing fluid. The bleeder is moist with brake fluid but no flow. That is the same with every wheel.

It doesn't appear to build pressure at the master cylinder either. It goes to the floor every time. Even after bleeding the master before attaching the brake line.

[wbdeford]

All the bleeders have been removed and are not clogged. I can get the back of the bleeders wet with brake fluid and very MINIMAL amounts off fluid to come out but the system won't build up pressure or push fluid through the lines.

The system itself is clean just unused for 21 years. I guess I'll replace all the rubber lines.

Where is a good place to order these from?

Even without pressure, fluid should come out of the open bleeder screw unless there is a blockage in the system somewhere.  In fact, my preferred method of bleeding is gravity bleeding because it is easier if you have the time.

New bleeder screws should be readily available at auto parts stores, as they are a very common size. 3/8-24, I think.

[trcooperone]

The bleeders are clear with no blockage, I can get minimal fluid enough to make them wet but not enough to bleed or build pressure.

I tried gravity bleeding today also and nothing! I unscrewed the bleed completely from each wheel and let it sit for 30+ min and nothing!

I would like to not replace every brake line in the system, I guess I will start with the flex lines at each wheel and go from there

[wbdeford]

If there is a blockage, it isn't necessarily at the bleeder screws.

When you are attempting to bleed them, does the reservoir stay full, or do you have to keep adding fluid?

[trcooperone]

Stays full

[wbdeford]

stays full in combination with virtually nothing coming out of the bleeder screws still says blockage to me.

I've never done this, so you might want to get a second opinion before trying this, but, what about disconnecting the lines one by one from the junction where they all meet and see if you can get fluid to come out of each port when you operate the brake?

[savemy67]

Hello Tommy,

If I recall, you found a nice car at a great price, but it had sat in a garage for about 20 years.  If your brakes will not bleed, take that as a sign that you should inspect, rebuild and replace if needed, every aspect of your brake system.  Most of what you need for your brake system you can get at RockAuto or a similar retailer.  If you haven't done so already, get the shop manual, and follow the procedures therein.

The hardest parts of the brake system to replace are probably the steel lines.  If you can, visually inspect the lines for leaks and rust.  The lines may look OK, but could be corroded on the inside.  Take a line off the car and flush it and see what comes out.  If you get rusty sludge, you may want to replace the lines.  You can buy the lines, or make them yourself.  There are no short-cuts with brakes.

Your car weighs north of two tons and was originally equipped with a single circuit master cylinder.  This system will work fine if you are an attentive driver, and the system is in top notch condition - which yours is not.  I encourage you to do a complete and thorough brake job on your car, as it is cheap insurance.

Respectfully submitted,
Christopher Winter

[trcooperone]

I thought about that idea also but when I attempted to remove the line even with a line wrench it felt like I was going to strip it.

[wbdeford]

I second what Christopher said.  Even if you can clear out the lines and get full pedal pressure and think everything is great....there likely is a weak spot inside one of them that could give at a time when you need it most (a hard brake) leaving you with no brakes at all except your transmission and emergency brake. 

[trcooperone]

Time to save my pennies for brake lines...