Anyone know a source for the carpet underlayment used on a '61 (and other years of that era? It consists of both a thicker layer of brown jute on the floor, and then a thicker layer of green fiber attached to the carpet. I know there are modern pads I could use that are similar to what is used under household carpet, but given the highly original condition of this car I'd like to find something that is closer to what the factory used. My original padding was damaged by a heater core leak and appears difficult to clean.
David,
Got pictures.
Have fun,
Steve B.
Steve-
I can post pictures when I'm back home. I'm down in your neck of the woods to pick up a car I can't talk about on here.
My carpet underlayment was nothing but rot. So I am interested to hear what you find. But for that I am more then comfortable going non original. Something that does not hold water or allow bacteria to grow and smell is more important to me.
I know people have used the grayish/ multicolored stuff that is sold in carpet stores, and I might wind up using that. It's available in various thicknesses and densities and could be built up to equal the thickness of the original stuff, but I'm not sure about the water/bacteria issues that Carl raises.
I don't think you'll be able to find the original type under padding and material that was used in our old Cads.
Everything now is that carpet padding that you see at Home Depot or Lowe's.
Honestly the new stuff is a lot better, it will hold up better as well. Plus there's different types of sound deadening material that you can use which acts as an insulator and sound absorber that is waterproof, so no worry's of it rotting out and causing a stench.
Closed Cell Foam is one, and there's this other stuff that I actually bought for my Lexus to make it even quieter to drive.
I used it on the inner wheel wells to quiet down some road noise which helps tremendously. They're stick on adhesive pads.
The product I used is called Siless and you can buy it on Amazon. There's a Hybrid version which consist of small layers of Closed Cell Acoustic foam which absorbs sound and keeps the interior well insulated, B-Mastic rubber to absorb vibrations, and a Mass Loaded Membrane material, whatever that is, to help reduce outside noise.
So you could use a combination of some carpet under padding and or silencer pads as they are called, and some of the other stuff I mentioned which will be so much better for your Caddy.
Sure, I like to keep things original as possible, but in this case, modern sound deadening technology is so superior to what was made back then. Cheap jute padding that if it does get wet, it smells very moldy and dingy. The material thins out and falls apart.
How do you think modern luxury cars are able to be so quiet to drive? It's all that new sound deadening material added to the interior of the cars, not to mention foam spray in areas of the body that can allow road noise to creep in. Back in the day, rubber asphalt pads were used to help quiet things down, which didn't work all too well at actually making the interior's extremely tomb like quiet.
Mainly because all the old Cadillacs were body on frame and had rubber body mount bushings to help with that, so they didn't need heavy loads of rubber mastic pads or super thick carpet under padding.
New vehicles on the other hand use more
of the Closed Cell Foam pads which are extremely lightweight and help keep interior noise levels down without adding additional weight to the vehicle, including carpet padding. Not much use or if any, of rubber mastic pads in new vehicles.
Just to follow up/close this issue, I have wound up using a couple of different modern material to build up the underlayment to equal the original height. I decided against using the self-adhesive sound absorbing stuff since this would permanently adhere to the floors and make it difficult for any future purchaser/owner to confirm that there is no rust under there.
I know it was not on this thread. But here is an image of that duct from my parts car.
IMG_20240212_150133001.jpg
Carl- that picture confirms my final opinion on the other thread I started about the duct, and that is that the forward part of the floor duct fits OVER and not under the rearward piece heading under the seat. Upon close examination of the pieces it was pretty clear from tape residue etc that this is the correct positioning. Also, the shop manual discussion on removing the heater box makes no reference to loosening the rearward duct, which would be necessary if the forward piece fit under the rearward piece.
Quote from: David Greenburg on January 15, 2024, 02:49:56 AMAnyone know a source for the carpet underlayment used on a '61 (and other years of that era? It consists of both a thicker layer of brown jute on the floor, and then a thicker layer of green fiber attached to the carpet. I know there are modern pads I could use that are similar to what is used under household carpet, but given the highly original condition of this car I'd like to find something that is closer to what the factory used. My original padding was damaged by a heater core leak and appears difficult to clean.
Because everyone rips up carpet to check for originality...
An opportunity exists to install a modern product that will give you better insulation against heat and cold
not to mention noise quieting.
David, one of the lost posts was this screenshot and the request for pictures of what is under carpet at the moment...
Maybe they have what you want, albeit the picture doesn't show a 1961.
Edit: I see the issue is solved but I would Iike to see pictures of the original material anyway.
Quote from: Cape Cod Fleetwood on February 14, 2024, 01:30:18 AMBecause everyone rips up carpet to check for originality...
An opportunity exists to install a modern product that will give you better insulation against heat and cold
not to mention noise quieting.
Huh? It's not at all unusual to request pictures of floorboards or trunk floors when evaluating these old cars, particularly given their propensity to rust in these areas. And you don't need to "rip up" the carpeting. Loosen a few screws and just peel it back. And the original stuff is not glued down. So it should be easy to get close the floor.
Quote from: 6262 on February 14, 2024, 11:37:18 AMDavid, one of the lost posts was this screenshot and the request for pictures of what is under carpet at the moment...
Maybe they have what you want, albeit the picture doesn't show a 1961.
Edit: I see the issue is solved but I would Iike to see pictures of the original material anyway.
I did see that earlier post, and that does look like the original stuff. I have attached pictures of the driver's side floor, showing the first of 3 layers. That layer is 3/4" brown jute. Then is a thinner layer of brown jute, which is attached to a thin layer of stiff green jute which is then attached to the carpet. The second and third pics show the original material for the top two layers. Those pictures don't accurately reflect the color of the brown jute; it's much darker, as shown in the 4th picture. It's thick; the total of the layers is an inch or so. I should also mention that this general configuration was the same in '59 and '60, and probably other "adjacent" years. Later I'll post a pic of the back side of the carpet, but it's raining today, so I can't spread it out outside, or pull a car out to shoot it on the garage floor.
David, is this the dash pad screw retainer you are looking for?
IMG_20240215_201030412_HDR.jpgIMG_20240215_201102216.jpg
I can take one off my parts car if you want original. But these are fairly generic.
IMG_20240215_201437220.jpg
I have more sizes then these in other boxes in my garage. These are the ones in my basement.
Carl-
Thanks; I'll let you know if I can't locate something generic. I do have some generic ones like what you show, but they are much smaller, and the hole for the screw is not angled like the original ones.