remove oil pan 425ci cadillac 1977

[Crys59]

it is possible to remove the oil pan when the engien is mounted on the car ?

in fact i have a big problem. when the oil is hot engine make a big noise (Clac clac clac . like connecting rod bearing used)
i would like to change the connecting rod bearing while the engine is on the car.
it's possible or not ?

thank you

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Most times it is possible to remove the Sump whilst the engine is in place, BUT:

If I remember correctly, the engine mounts have to be undone off the chassis, and the engine raised up a bit, and pieces of timber inserted between the mount and the chassis receiver.

To do this, you have to remove the Fan Shroud, to give the fan clearance, and loosten the Engine Pipe to Exhaust Manifold to allow movement of the joints there, if you have Dual Exhausts, or if you have a Cross-over pipe with a Single Exhaust, that might have to be removed.

Remove Starter Motor, and Flywheel cover, and sometimes it is also necessary to lower the Steering Drag Link, and don't forget to remove the Dip Stick and disconnect the Battery..

There may be other things, but I don't have that specific Manual with me.

Bruce.

[Philippe M. Ruel]

Chilton says (see image)

I bet Haynes says exactly the same thing

[bill henry]

i thick if you have something rapping like that you will have to do a lot more than just change 1 bearing

[greg surfas 15634]

All other issues aside, if in fact the noise is from the bottom end (Rods or main bearings) you would not really want to change bearings without "cleaning-up" the crankshaft (machining).  How many miles does the engine have on it?, Have you pulled the rocker arm covers to see if there is anything loose? has the timing chain/gears set been replaced?
An accurate diagnosis should come before repairs. 
Greg Surfas

[John Morris #23947]

I have an engine doing that, put in new rod bearings [of course miked the journals too] and still had noise. Pulled pan again, pulled rod caps one at a time, tapped pistons up, and found a loose wrist pin on one. Everything except wrist pins was rebuilt on this engine, so off comes intake and 1 head to fix. BLAHH!!

[homeonprunehill]

01-17-08
Crys59, Number uno. you didn't say what year, so, I will assume it is an 1986, and the answer is YES, you may have to turn the engine A little in order to get the pan off, but, it will come off. The pistons must be down for the pan to come off, otherwise the pan will hang-up on the "balance-weights" of the "crank".
Good Luck,JIM  P.S. I know, that why Jack-asses are not sent to school, No body likes a "Wise a-s.

[homeonprunehill]

it is possible to remove the oil pan when the engien is mounted on the car ?

in fact i have a big problem. when the oil is hot engine make a big noise (Clac clac clac . like connecting rod bearing used)
i would like to change the connecting rod bearing while the engine is on the car.
it's possible or not ?

thank you
[/quote
01-17-08
Chry59, sorry,I didn't see the 1977 in the title of the message, until I went-back to re-reads the message then I remenbered something else I wanted to say. Sounds like you have pagged trhis one correctly. But for others.  In the "old" days, to tell the difference between a Rod Bearing and a Main Bearing. When it first starts to knock. The ROD will Knock when there is no load on the engine. A MAIN will knock when the engine is under a load.  Bruce Reynolds is correct. If it doesn't mite-out to specs you will be wasting your time&money to band-aid the problem. Let the readers know what it Mites-out to be, we might be able to advise.
Good Luck,JIM

[Crys59]

Thanks to all.
I made a mistake because there was the old oil in the engine (car stopped since 7 years)
Noise emerged after a long drive by rolling quickly (very quickly = 90miles/h during 125miles).
The engine has 83000miles.
NOW:
Noise is always present (a hot idle, when it accelerated). I think is  one rod bearing dead.

Is that this model of the gear chain  is covered with plastic (like 1970 model)?

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

G'day Christian,

I trust you chastised yourself very severely for not changing the oil before you thrashed it?

I can imagine what happened was that you checked the oil level via the dipstick, and all was okay?

But, after driving for so long, any contaminants that were in the oil evaporated away, and that didn't leave much fluid stuff above the Sludge in the bottom of the Sump.

Plus, there is the great possibility that the Head Gaskets had lost their stickicity from sitting for so long, and possibly more damage.

Now, I would be recommending you pull the motor, as I think it will have to be stripped down completely, as there will be more damage than just a Big End gone.

If you have "Spun a Bearing", you will possibly be in need of a new Crankshaft and Connecting Rod or a crank journal re-grind, with Con Rod end requiring Re-sizing.

Unused engines really NEED to be re-run-in quietly, carefully, and with lots of checking and oil and filter changing, and not immediately taken for a drive down the Autobahn.

Bruce.

PS.   I am sure the '77 motors used the Plastic covered teeth on the Cam Gear.

[Crys59]

In fact, the seller told me that the car was travelling frequently ..
But after (too late) he told me it had not rolled past 7 years

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

In fact, the seller told me that the car was travelling frequently ..
But after (too late) he told me it had not rolled past 7 years    

Now, where have I heard that same quote before?

Maybe the seller supplied the "Concrete" Warranty?   Once it leaves the concrete driveway, the warranty expires.

Bruce.

PS.   Hope the damage isn't too bad.

[Crys59]

This type of old car has no guarantee.
I had to make reparation now.

[STDog]

While I don't know the '77 chassis, I was able to change the rod and main bearing on my '70 CDV with the engine in the car. (wrong size installed. don't ask )
I just followed the FSM (and Chiltons) method for removing the oil pan. Did not need to loosen the mounts or raise the engine.

One thing I need when  getting the pan out, after everything is loose, was to raise the frame/body a bit to get more clearance between the flexplate and the steering linkage. The steering stays put with the wheels, and the engine goes up with the frame.  Just a few inched, but it was needed. It Also lets the exhaust drop lower too, which is also helpful.


Now, as to whether changing the bearings will be enough, I cannot say. Could be too far gone already, and/or too much other damage.

[TJ Hopland]

By the 77 shop manual:

-remove struts to radiator cover
-remove upper fan shroud (they mention drilling out 6 rivets)
-loosen belts and remove crank pully
-raise car on hoist
-drain oil
-remove 'y' pipe from manifolds and cat converter
-remove through bolts from mounts
-remove starter
-remove transmission lower cover
-use block of wood under crank hub to raise to gain clearance (watch clearance with throttle linkage and near heat/ac box)

[Crys59]

thank you for your help.
I do not understand how to disassemble the engine supports. It must unscrew the large main screw? Or small mounting screws?

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

The long Bolt at the bottom, where the Mounting sits on the Chassis.

Bruce.

[Crys59]

i d'ont undestnad how to remove the fan protection in plastic ?

[Crys59]

Big problem, look that:


all bearing is dead.. and the crankshaft too.....

[Blue43Bo]

The bearing in this picture is not the cause of the knock.