Where have all the younger crowd gone?

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

I am a newcomer to Facebook, and have "joined" ac couple of the Cadillac specialty groups.  There are some absolutely spectacular cars and there is an enthusiastic audience.  True, most of the cars have been "bagged", and a lot of them have the ubiquitous LS motors in them, but many are restorations of show car quality. 
My purpose in mentioning this here is that we (CLS club) seem to be missing a bet by not being more welcoming to these cars.  These are the future "old fogies" we have seeming become.
Greg Surfas

[dinhnguyen57]

There was a lengthy discussion on this very topic some months ago or maybe it has bene a year now.  I didn't even realize there was a "modified chapter" of the CLC.  It took some surfing around the CLC website to find it.

I would recommend the first thing is to have the modified chapter as a easy to find listing on the same page as the "cars for sale" and "parts for sale" and "general discussion."  This will make it easier to find and people will click the tab and explore and use it more often.


I think there is importance to preserving Cadillac vehicles in it's original form and the present forum categories for this should be kept unchanged as such.  But I also think it is equally important to give the modified chapter equal importance and develop it more...and putting a link on the same main forum page to make it more accessible is the first step.


Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Dave H. (CO)]

I would also agree that the Modified category be easier to find.  I didn't know there was one.  I admire and appreciate the restored cars, but I know that due to the prices used/new parts cost that I'll never get mine to that status.  I'll likely go down the path of some modifications due to costs.

[mgrab]

I joined the CLC probably about 15 or 16 years ago now when I was in my early 20's and had just bought my '41.  A lot of life has happened though I still have it and it still needs a lot of work.  Currently, I'm building a new shop for it and my other cars.  I love (and have greatly missed) working on cars, probably more than driving them.. and certainly more than showing.  There are quite a few people on this forum that are a tremendous help to those in my position who lack all needed answers in putting these cars back together.  That is the main reason I joined this club in the first place.   I have over the years read many posts and like many noted in other threads from time to time there is a lot of negativity, especially towards potential restoration projects. Not that it will keep me away but, I don't think it's going to help get younger people involved in the hobby or this club for that matter.  My father has never understood why I liked these types of cars, always tried to steer me away and though it was disgusting that they were treated like investments creating a barrier to entry for guys like myself when I was a teenager.  I get warning people if they are unaware of the potential costs associated with restoring these cars but not every car needs a 100 pt. restoration or is a complete piece of trash if it doesn't get one.  Just my two cents.

[carlhungness]

        When I hit "FORUM HOME" there is no link to Modified Chapter and as a publisher that makes no sense to me whatsoever. Consider the history of hot rodding, whose name was changed to street rodding sometime in the 70's. Rod & Custom magazine, the leader in the field by far took their publication off the news-stands, then the first NSRA event was held in 1973 with a few hundred cars.Today they get over 12,000 to the national meet all the while adding to the success of Street Rodder magazine which replaced Rod & Custom. R&C thought hot rodding was dying and later admitted it was the biggest mistake they ever made.
        The point here is the officials of the Cadillac Club can surely see there are Modified Cadillacs galore and not to promote the genre is akin to taking Rod & Custom off the shelves. If you don't attract the youth the field is going to go dry. I was surprised to see how few pre WWII cars attended the national Cadillac meet I went to in Louisville a couple of years back.
        The street rod movement was responsible for the reproduction of so many parts that the antique car guys were astounded. Fact of the matter is, for a good number of years now a street rodded 'old' Cadillac will bring a lot more money than a fully restored one time and again.
       I'm not a part of the rules making scene in the CLC but I'd like to make a motion that the Forum Police surely add a Modified Chapter link to our website so we can attract..attract more eyes.

[Harley Earl]

I joined the CLC probably about 15 or 16 years ago now when I was in my early 20's and had just bought my '41.  A lot of life has happened though I still have it and it still needs a lot of work.  Currently, I'm building a new shop for it and my other cars.  I love (and have greatly missed) working on cars, probably more than driving them.. and certainly more than showing.  There are quite a few people on this forum that are a tremendous help to those in my position who lack all needed answers in putting these cars back together.  That is the main reason I joined this club in the first place.   I have over the years read many posts and like many noted in other threads from time to time there is a lot of negativity, especially towards potential restoration projects. Not that it will keep me away but, I don't think it's going to help get younger people involved in the hobby or this club for that matter.  My father has never understood why I liked these types of cars, always tried to steer me away and though it was disgusting that they were treated like investments creating a barrier to entry for guys like myself when I was a teenager.  I get warning people if they are unaware of the potential costs associated with restoring these cars but not every car needs a 100 pt. restoration or is a complete piece of trash if it doesn't get one.  Just my two cents.

Thank you Greg for posting this subject!  I am in agreement with everyone’s posting here.  MGRAB’s posting really hit home with me.  I am about fifteen years older than him BUT experienced much of the same as a “closet” Cadillac son of a hot rodder!

My take is that this hobby has gotten very EXPENSIVE, especially in comparison to when I started out with my $200 1959 Cadillac Coupe de Ville in October of 1986.  This car was a total restore that I managed to complete in just under a year while in high school and holding down several part-time and full-time summer jobs.  I did it then BUT I am not too confident that a youth of today could swing it.  The cost of parts and restoration tasks that cannot be done without costly specialized tools or products just make what was once doable a bigger challenge.  There is a solution but it involves more direct one to one, person to person charity than what I see in the world today.

We have many years of great experience on this board.  Add to it the caring and kind guidance/feedback that members donate to those just starting out or relearning.  Where we can improve is not only in sharing our knowledge but sharing our time, parts stashes and, if we are lucky enough, our greenbacks with those that are interested but don't have the money to get involved.  Share the secrets with the youngsters too;  the secret junk yards, the friend that gives you a smoking deal when you need something hard to find and the internet based sellers that have been beyond helpful in your restoration.  Be a benefactor to someone you know personally that needs a helping hand (Choose to give to those who you are certain do not have the same resources as you: not another geezer like myself/yourself that can “afford” the hobby)  Most of us can remember when someone was kind enough with their time, belongings and/or pocketbook where it helped inspire our love of this hobby.  Regrettably, I don't see this as much today as I did when I was a youngster maturing into a teenager.  The key is to “pay it forward” with our hobby.  For instance, recently when I had an extra NEW Optima battery sitting unused in my garage, I gave it to a younger buddy that is building a hot rod for his family.  Sure, I may have been able to sell it or use it myself at some point in the future but it just felt good getting rid of stuff and seeing it put to use immediately.  This buddy works on his flathead Fords with a neighbor gentleman that is over 90 who was servicing Ford's back in the late 1930’s.  Another suggestion is to price things to sell when you are lightening your garage stash.  Personally, this just feels good when I “bargain basement” sell an item; be it a car, tool or spare part to someone that needs it more than I.  In terms of the high cost of parts; Many decades ago, many specialty parts retailers gave me various discounts because I was both young and poor.  Maybe this is something that the parts resellers that follow our convos on the board can bring back…   Of course this is all just my experience/suggestions and no offense is meant to those that disagree.

Create a Modified section that is easy to find.  I promise to provide feedback. 

[scotth3886]

Where is a 'like' button for these posts as I see all likable comments above? 

We really need to figure out a way to share more to see some interest from younger peeps concerning these cars or they're going to end up right back out in a field rotting away as they were when we found some of them. 

I'm at Cars and Coffee every Saturday morning, most time with the 66 Feetwood and talk with anyone and everyone.  The mid 20s to maybe 35 or so are deadset on their rice and imports, but some of the younger ones show a little more interest in these old showboats from decades ago.  Given that mine is triple black, one minute I'm a retired pimp, then a cruise ship captain, then mafia and last a funeral director.  I have a story and a line of bullchit for everyone.  Anything to make them laugh at the car and/or me. 

Still though, the demographic numbers are against us, but I do what I can.

[dinhnguyen57]

I have another suggestion:

When I was trying to look for that modified chapter link, I went through all the regional websites and some were every well developed.  What I particularly enjoy browsing through were some websites have a link to view the members cars and some others had pictures of YouTube videos of past car shows and members cars again.


Whether a person is interested in bagging their cars or keeping it original, looking at restored examples are wonderful eye candy and inspiration to the Cadillac enthusiast.

I would recommend an easy to find link that can have sub-category of different year Cadillacs.  Members and non-members can post their car pictures of that year on there.  We'll probably get increasing visits to those links.

[Clewisiii]

"Nostalgia is the enemy of Optimism."

[David Greenburg]

I agree with the above comments, but wanted to point out that this is not a new problem. When I joined, in my mid-20’s 35 or so years ago, I felt largely ignored by local region, which seemed like an old boys club very set in its ways, with no interest in what some young punk might be up to (that region has since transformed itself, and is now one of the most active and dynamic; i sometimes still wish I lived in the area). And I encountered the same thing at local shows (“shouldn’t you be into Mustangs or Camaros?”). Now that I’m on the other side of the hill, I go out of my way to be welcoming when a young person shows an interest in my cars.  We need them.  Even at 61, I still feel like one of the youngsters at many of the events I attend. 

[wrench]

I agree with making the modified chapter forum more readily accessible.

I have seen it discussed and Greg has some background running it, but I have never even looked for it because I still have no clue where it is.

I generally don’t modify my cars, but I do like to see what’s out there being done.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Here it is.

https://www.modifiedcadillac.org/  or  modifiedcadillac.org

Bruce.

[wrench]

Here it is.

https://www.modifiedcadillac.org/  or  modifiedcadillac.org

Bruce.

Thanks, Bruce.

I will be able to find it now that it’s in my web search history...lol

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Plus, there is a link to the Modified Chapter under Local Clubs which opens up to Regions and Chapters in the Home CLC site.

Hard to put in a site that will be visible when simply typing "Cadillac Clubs", "Hotting up a Cadillac", or "Lowering a Cadillac", or "Custom Cadillac" in the Search Engine.   Even putting "Engine change in a Cadillac" in a search engine doesn't direct anyone to the Modified Chapter site.

Bruce.

[jaxops]

I agree with the above comments, but wanted to point out that this is not a new problem. When I joined, in my mid-20’s 35 or so years ago, I felt largely ignored by local region, which seemed like an old boys club very set in its ways, with no interest in what some young punk might be up to (that region has since transformed itself, and is now one of the most active and dynamic; i sometimes still wish I lived in the area). And I encountered the same thing at local shows (“shouldn’t you be into Mustangs or Camaros?”). Now that I’m on the other side of the hill, I go out of my way to be welcoming when a young person shows an interest in my cars.  We need them.  Even at 61, I still feel like one of the youngsters at many of the events I attend.

Dave- that's what drove me out of the local AACA club and joined the much more fulfilling and welcoming KofC (not a car club by the way). I joined CLC for the assistance and the relatable comments but am always wary of posting in the technical area, although I think it has gotten better after the survey that came out noting the negativity in there.  My first car was "too new" and generally reviled by the older group in AACA.  Everyone has their tastes- even AACA has a modified car class but I don't think they have a chapter devoted to it. 
We should welcome any interest in antiques and classic cars. I enjoy the car corrals the best as you park next to a muscle car, a "rice-burner", a drag car, or a Model-T.  It gives one a lot to talk about.  If we all had the same car, there'd be no need to show it!

[R Pope]

This topic and the responses made my morning. I have interest in all cars, I am drawn to the engineering and ingenuity of some of the creations/solutions that others have done. Glad to be a part of an 'open' group.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Interesting - even when I "officially" entered the old car hobby which for me began at the age of 25 with a '64 Series 62 Coupe, I never felt "snubbed" in the slightest by any of the major car clubs. In fact the only snubbing I got was when I found myself in situations where the majority of cars present were modified being the lone wolf with a factory stock car.  Therefore this cuts both ways as I see it.

The trouble in my view is that major policy changes can be made with the presumption that all other factors will remain static, ignoring the pitfalls that come from trying to be all things to all people. Appealing to (for lack of a better phrase) the "lowest common denominator" has rarely been a recipe for success any more than "success" of any type is measured on raw numbers alone. A McDonalds sells more meals in a day than most any five star restaurant sells in a year. Is that the metric we should be using?

A good example of this is Carlisle where for years it was once difficult to get a car corral space. Keep in mind Carlisle had been founded in response to Hershey's 25 year age & stock condition requirements where any car could be offered for sale. Over time, Carlisle's inventory increasingly turned a late model used car lot as vintage cars of the 40s - 60s were no longer in attendance as they once had been while Hershey's turnouts remained relatively strong.

Top tier events such as Pebble Beach, Meadowbrook, Bloomington and any number of concours shows have always maintained exacting standards of authenticity and there's certainly no sign of attrition there.

The ever increasing emphasis on original preservation in the classic car hobby cannot be denied either as reflected in market prices. The supply of this material is fixed and can never be increased; it can only decrease. Conversely, the supply of modified examples is theoretically unlimited.

Finally, I think it is also incorrect to presume that interest among "younger" participants in the collector/special interest car hobby lies exclusively in modified cars. While it may be true to an extent, a good part of it is due to appreciation that only comes from the experience, enlightenment and knowledge that comes with age that hadn't yet been attained. This is where we come in. While we all agree nobody should ever be put down or slighted, no matter what their car or preference, there is nothing incongruent about cultivating younger generations about the history and the reasons behind the time honored traditions of original preservation and authenticity while also maintaining a welcoming atmosphere. 

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

You know I am probably jus talking into the wind, but if the Modified chapter was allowed some participation in the Self Starter, such as a page or  two each month it might prove enough incentive to bring some of the car's owners  I was talking about into the club.  Just my thought.
Greg Surfas

[Lexi]

Eric well said. Clay/Lexi

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

I am a newcomer to Facebook, and have "joined" ac couple of the Cadillac specialty groups.  There are some absolutely spectacular cars and there is an enthusiastic audience.  True, most of the cars have been "bagged", and a lot of them have the ubiquitous LS motors in them, but many are restorations of show car quality. 
My purpose in mentioning this here is that we (CLS club) seem to be missing a bet by not being more welcoming to these cars.  These are the future "old fogies" we have seeming become.
Greg Surfas

You just joined Facebook? Better late than never. I've seen the nicest restomods on the "1965-1970 Cadillac Collective" if you haven't been there yet Greg.

Funny, didn't this NEW/GIRL start this fur ball about 2 years ago? "Its in the CLC's best interest financially and for longevity to set a place at the table for the restomods." Which was promptly met with "I'd rather see the car crushed."

No one loves an original more than me, I prove it with my car.
No one appreciates an insanely well done resto more than me either.
Any Caddy rolling is a Caddy saved.
The majority of young people getting into old Caddy's ARE modding them.
Its faster and cheaper. And far cooler to the young.
Set a place at the table for them, its the ONLY way they'll get exposed to the originals
and form an appreciation for them.