1939 Cadillac Series 61 Convertible project.

[dennisspeaks]

This is a little out of my league going from 60's and newer Cadillacs to this 39.  I am considering getting this 39 from a friend whos it was one of his dads and he has no interest in it other than the cha ching.

Not looking to restore it, just fix it and drive it as she is.  I would appreciate hearing from someone that has or has had one to let me know what I am in for. This one drove to it's current spot back in 1990 and there she sat.

So here I sit considering undertaking this project and looking at the investment required to make her road worthy.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Very nice.   Would look good in my Garage, but sadly, would never get finished.

Bruce.

[dennisspeaks]

Hey Bruce,

Too many projects or is it not enough time in the day?

[Tom Boehm]

Hello Dennis, I am restoring a 1940 Lasalle. Very similar to your Cad. There are about 4 or 5 participants on this forum who have 1939/1940 Cadillacs and Lasalles. I guess there are about 10 more who have cars with the 1936-1948 Cadillac flathead V8. The sad fact is the generation who grew up with these cars and know them well is fading away. Knowledge of these cars is getting harder to find. In addition to this forum, The CLC has Authenticity Manuals available and volunteer club technicians for 1939/1940 Cad Las and flathead engines. There are reproduction shop manuals available on ebay and various publishers.
    My experience is there was good mechanical parts availability for brakes, suspension, and engine. That was 10+ years ago.
    Was this car restored or partially restored before being parked? This car has sat for 30+ years. I think it will be a challenge to get running. You will need to check the entire fuel system including repair/replacement of the gas tank. You will need to check the radiator with possible recoring. You will need to rebuild the entire brake system. You will need to determine if the engine is stuck.
Does this car have the original wiring harness? 80 year old wiring is not good. My estimate is that it could easily cost $5,000.00 to get this car sorted.
My estimate that this car is worth about $20,000 as is. After it is sorted and starting, running, and stopping well  It may be worth $30,000. A convertible like this with a high quality restoration would be worth $50,000.  I hope others will chime in with their opinions.

The AACA Antique Automobile Club of America website has a forum like this. There is a lot more knowledge of prewar cars on that forum but it may not be Cadillac specific. If you get this car it would be worthwhile checking out that forum. Sorting cars like this is a popular topic over there.

[Poncholover]

Great problem to have

[dennisspeaks]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your reply, 1940 huh, that's cool.  I knew this was the place to tap into for guidance/ There are certain things that I always do, new brake system, new fuel system , when I can't find a new tank I use Renu to repair my tanks, we have a local place here in my city so it's convenient and the price ain't too bad either.  I am not familiar with is that flathead motor,

I do not know if it was restored or partially restored before it was driven to it's current location by my friends Dad who has passed and my friend is not a car guy  so most is unknown.  There were about 10 Cadillacs in there, a Voltswagon a toronado and chevy truck.  I bought a 66 Sedan Deville, 71 Sedan Deville, 78 Biarritz, 76 Eldorado and 74 Eldorado out of the same barn.  All are running by doing the maintenance you mentioned.  I always put marvel Mystery oil in the cylinders for a few days before I attempt to start any car that has been sitting, just a habit and of course shop manuals and others are vital. 

I will check out AACA too, thanks for the tip.

I am not looking to restore, just get it roadworthy and drive as is to parades, car shows and cruises.  Too bad it don't have a rumble seat.

[Tom Boehm]

You may already know this but,.. In a "flathead" or "L" head engine the valves are in the block, not in the head. The combustion chamber is L shaped because the valves are next to the cylinders. The valves are operated by one camshaft in the block. This 1936-1948 Cadillac "flathead" V8 has hydraulic lifters between the camshaft and the end of the valves. That is one major difference between  the Cadillac V8 and the Ford Flathead V8. The Ford does not have hydraulic lifters. The exhaust manifold on the Ford is down low. They are on the top of the Cadillac Flathead. The exhaust manifolds on the Cadillac Flathead are porcelain coated. The generation of CLC members who grew up with these engines used to rave about how they were powerful, smooth and quiet. That has been my experience. These engines are rated at about 130-140 horsepower, which is close to the highest of prewar cars. Some Buicks, some Packards, and of course the Cadillac V16 were higher. I think the 1939 Ford V8 had 85 hp.
I like cars of the '37-'41 period because they are the first cars to drive like modern cars yet they look so different from modern cars. Compared to the cars of the early and mid 1930's, these have additional horsepower, synchronized manual transmissions, automatic spark advance, automatic choke, independent front suspension, and hydraulic brakes. These cars are designed for a pre interstate highway era. They have lots of low speed torque. In city driving, you can come to almost a complete stop in second or third gear and then speed up again without shifting. It reduces shifting. That being said, they are capable of 60-65 mph on the interstate. A lot of people complain the brakes on prewar cars are not as good. That has not been my experience. They are not a fast stopping as power
brakes but I do not think they are dangerous either.
The 1939 Cadillac series 61 and the 1939 Lasalle use the same Fisher body. The only major difference in these two are the front end styling. The Cadillac engine has 346 cubic inch displacement and the Lasalle has 322. The Cadillac has a Stromberg carburetor and the Lasalle has a Carter.
This is important for these cars: 6 volt systems worked when they were new and they can be made to work well again. There is no need to convert to12 volts. 6 volt systems are very sensitive to connections with rust, dirt, and paint on them. Also, the battery cables on a 6 volt system should be much thicker than that of a 12 volt system.

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

Hi, If you have not already, join the CLC and when you are able to get to our Directory, you can look up Terry Wenger in St. Louis. (Ferguson) He has one that he restored some forty years ago. His is also a '39. (And a Series 61 convertible coupe.) Good luck.

[dennisspeaks]

Thank you for your insight Tom, that is what I was looking for.  After looking around I found two people that says they can work on these, one I know can because he has done some work on one of my other cars and I have watched him for hears, fortunately he is local too.  The other person says they are similar to working on a Ford from that vintage, he has a Chevy from that time.  I am hoping we can get some decent weather so I can do a road trip and check it out and get some pics and video.  Until then I will just research and look for parts resources.

You may already know this but,.. In a "flathead" or "L" head engine the valves are in the block, not in the head. The combustion chamber is L shaped because the valves are next to the cylinders. The valves are operated by one camshaft in the block. This 1936-1948 Cadillac "flathead" V8 has hydraulic lifters between the camshaft and the end of the valves. That is one major difference between  the Cadillac V8 and the Ford Flathead V8. The Ford does not have hydraulic lifters. The exhaust manifold on the Ford is down low. They are on the top of the Cadillac Flathead. The exhaust manifolds on the Cadillac Flathead are porcelain coated. The generation of CLC members who grew up with these engines used to rave about how they were powerful, smooth and quiet. That has been my experience. These engines are rated at about 130-140 horsepower, which is close to the highest of prewar cars. Some Buicks, some Packards, and of course the Cadillac V16 were higher. I think the 1939 Ford V8 had 85 hp.
I like cars of the '37-'41 period because they are the first cars to drive like modern cars yet they look so different from modern cars. Compared to the cars of the early and mid 1930's, these have additional horsepower, synchronized manual transmissions, automatic spark advance, automatic choke, independent front suspension, and hydraulic brakes. These cars are designed for a pre interstate highway era. They have lots of low speed torque. In city driving, you can come to almost a complete stop in second or third gear and then speed up again without shifting. It reduces shifting. That being said, they are capable of 60-65 mph on the interstate. A lot of people complain the brakes on prewar cars are not as good. That has not been my experience. They are not a fast stopping as power
brakes but I do not think they are dangerous either.
The 1939 Cadillac series 61 and the 1939 Lasalle use the same Fisher body. The only major difference in these two are the front end styling. The Cadillac engine has 346 cubic inch displacement and the Lasalle has 322. The Cadillac has a Stromberg carburetor and the Lasalle has a Carter.
This is important for these cars: 6 volt systems worked when they were new and they can be made to work well again. There is no need to convert to12 volts. 6 volt systems are very sensitive to connections with rust, dirt, and paint on them. Also, the battery cables on a 6 volt system should be much thicker than that of a 12 volt system.

[dennisspeaks]

No I haven't Barry,

We will see if I get it, I plan on going to see and inspect it more closely to see exactly what I am faced with.

If i get it then I might have to join.  Thanks for the contact.

Hi, If you have not already, join the CLC and when you are able to get to our Directory, you can look up Terry Wenger in St. Louis. (Ferguson) He has one that he restored some forty years ago. His is also a '39. (And a Series 61 convertible coupe.) Good luck.

[39LaSalleDriver]

Tom pretty well hit the nail on the head with his observations. I've had my 39 for six years now and have been able to piece together almost everything I needed, but admittedly I think some of those resources are drying up. I know for any sort of interior work, you're pretty much going to be on your own. The fabrics &c. just aren't out there to take it back to original appearance if that is important to you. Brakes, bearings, water pumps, wiring and the like can still be had fairly easily. It's just going to be a matter of patience, opportunity, and of course money. Don't forget about Ebay either. It may take a while there, but many times something will pop up you can use. For example, it took me a year and a half to get the correct trunk hinges, but they finally showed up for sale.

Honestly, I think one of the biggest hurdles is the question of can you do some or most of the work yourself. Finding shops that can do the work and/or that you trust is getting to be a rare bird these days.

[Tom Boehm]

Hello Dennis, Where is this car located?

[dennisspeaks]

39LaSalleDriver,

Yes I can do some of the work and can call on a few people not if but when I need help,  I don't mind leaving the interior as it is, I'm guessing at it's age it has been redone and it's in pretty good condition.   Rebuilding the fuel and brakes after getting it running will be high on my list so it will hopefully be ready for parades in the spring, that's the goal anyway, I know first hand it don't always work out that way.

I have a guy known as the bust mechanic in Spokane that I will be taking it to go get it running while I watch and learn.

Thanks for your input.

Tom pretty well hit the nail on the head with his observations. I've had my 39 for six years now and have been able to piece together almost everything I needed, but admittedly I think some of those resources are drying up. I know for any sort of interior work, you're pretty much going to be on your own. The fabrics &c. just aren't out there to take it back to original appearance if that is important to you. Brakes, bearings, water pumps, wiring and the like can still be had fairly easily. It's just going to be a matter of patience, opportunity, and of course money. Don't forget about Ebay either. It may take a while there, but many times something will pop up you can use. For example, it took me a year and a half to get the correct trunk hinges, but they finally showed up for sale.

Honestly, I think one of the biggest hurdles is the question of can you do some or most of the work yourself. Finding shops that can do the work and/or that you trust is getting to be a rare bird these days.

[dennisspeaks]

Hi Tom,

The car is located at a friend of mine's place.  It belonged to his dad who passed and my friend is not a car guy.  Fortunately for me he don't have it advertised for sale.  He has offered it to me multiple times and I wasn't interested until recently and I told him yes I'm interested.  I am just waiting for him to get back to town and we get some weather good enough for me to make that road trip.   

[Jamurray]

Let me give you my observations. I own a '40-5067. The 50 series LaSalle shared its body with the 61 series Cadillac of 1939. Junior Buicks, Pontiacs, and Oldsmobiles also used that body. I don't think there was a series 61 in 1940. I bought the '40 because I loved the look of the '37 LaSalle and Cadillac convertible coupes, but I couldn't find one. That '39 has mouth-dropping style, every bit as much as the '37 I still pine for.

I envy you. Forget about the money. Every dollar I've spent on my laSalle is a buck the nursing home won't get.

[dennisspeaks]

Jamurray thanks for your reply and observations.  Yes I like the style too although this is way older than anything I ever though I would be getting by at least 20 years.  Fortunately for me the car is not advertised, I will be having a road trip after Christmas when weather permits to really put a birds eye view on it and make sure then engine is not locked up.  Is there a bolt just like with newer cars to check that or is it a different process?  I am going to have to check out the 37 you mentioned as I don't know what they look like.

Let me give you my observations. I own a '40-5067. The 50 series LaSalle shared its body with the 61 series Cadillac of 1939. Junior Buicks, Pontiacs, and Oldsmobiles also used that body. I don't think there was a series 61 in 1940. I bought the '40 because I loved the look of the '37 LaSalle and Cadillac convertible coupes, but I couldn't find one. That '39 has mouth-dropping style, every bit as much as the '37 I still pine for.

I envy you. Forget about the money. Every dollar I've spent on my laSalle is a buck the nursing home won't get.

[dennisspeaks]

Well I am the happy owner, Looking forward to getting her back on the road by the upcoming cruising season.  I can't wait.

Let me give you my observations. I own a '40-5067. The 50 series LaSalle shared its body with the 61 series Cadillac of 1939. Junior Buicks, Pontiacs, and Oldsmobiles also used that body. I don't think there was a series 61 in 1940. I bought the '40 because I loved the look of the '37 LaSalle and Cadillac convertible coupes, but I couldn't find one. That '39 has mouth-dropping style, every bit as much as the '37 I still pine for.

I envy you. Forget about the money. Every dollar I've spent on my laSalle is a buck the nursing home won't get.

[Jamurray]

I'm happy for you. I don't know how many '39-6157s were produced, or how many still exist, but you have acquired a truly magnificent example of late thirties rolling sculpture. It shares parts with a host of other GM cars from that period, so obtaining parts will not be a problem. It's also just drop-dead gorgeous! Just enjoy every minute of your ownership.

[dennisspeaks]

Well after being exposed to covid which I turned out negative I brought the 39 home and got her a little cleaned up today, not too bad at all.  I am looking forward to the process over the next several months to get her roadworthy.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Looks very nice, and what a starting point.

Bruce.