1951 Caddy daily driver

[tluke]

So my speedometer on my '55 goes up to 110. They surely wouldn't put 110 there if it wouldn't do that! My '57 Continental Mark II speedometer goes up to 120 but the '56 model went up to 140. It seems Ford got sued for false advertisement since it wouldn't do 140 mph no way, no how. I'm not sure it could ever do 120 either. I did get my '55 Cad 75 Series up to 100 mph (slightly downhill) for a few minutes back in the 70s, just once! That was still with bias ply tires and the 3.77 differential gear ratio of the limo. Oh the fearlessness of your 20's.

[Mowerhoarder]

Alright, place your bets on whether the 51' caddy will make the 200 mile drive back from Michigan on Saturday, planning to mostly take backroads and take it easy. Excited to finally (hopefully) own a cadillac!

[James Landi]

Conor--- take some diagnostic tools with you.. I suggest an infrared thermometer (if you begin to suspect a clogged radiator), a  test/multimeter (if the engine dies for lack of power to the ignition coil), ignition points, feeler gauge, and condenser,  some starting fluid (so you can easily test for a failure in fuel delivery), some tire associated emergency road side repair materials, a good fire extinguisher, a box of wrenches and a membership to AAA. If you have all of that investment for your trip, you can be all but certain you'll not need any of it.  Channeling a safe and uneventful trip your way.   James

[Mowerhoarder]

Thanks James,

I am for sure taking all that, multimeter, wrenches/sockets, atf, oil, diff fluid, brake parts cleaner, some bulk hoses, and a triple AAA card! And some rain x too to hopefully combat the slow wipers.

[Mowerhoarder]

To say the least, that didn't go as planned. Didn't end up getting the car due to the brakes being so bad and it not really being in the budget to convert them. I figured that being a luxury car, a Cadillac would have boosted drum brakes but it's just all mechanical brakes. It's pretty much the equivalent of driving a modern disc brake car with the engine off and a dump truck pushing you. Previous to this, I hadn't driven a 50s car but was pleasantly surprised with how it drove and handled, good, smooth power and steering as long as you're moving. I never really understood "standing on the brakes" until I drove this thing and I now have a new level of respect for those who drive these on the highway and in the city with the original brakes. Surely these can't be THAT bad? but maybe I'm wrong. Either way, I hope to buy the 49' caddy and upgrade to either power drums or a power disc/drum setup. Where would be a good place to be looking for a power master conversion? I figure I'll try that with the original drums first then see if I need to go to discs or just keep it drums.

[PHIL WHYTE CLC 14192]

To say the least, that didn't go as planned. Didn't end up getting the car due to the brakes being so bad and it not really being in the budget to convert them. I figured that being a luxury car, a Cadillac would have boosted drum brakes but it's just all mechanical brakes. It's pretty much the equivalent of driving a modern disc brake car with the engine off and a dump truck pushing you. Previous to this, I hadn't driven a 50s car but was pleasantly surprised with how it drove and handled, good, smooth power and steering as long as you're moving. I never really understood "standing on the brakes" until I drove this thing and I now have a new level of respect for those who drive these on the highway and in the city with the original brakes. Surely these can't be THAT bad? but maybe I'm wrong. Either way, I hope to buy the 49' caddy and upgrade to either power drums or a power disc/drum setup. Where would be a good place to be looking for a power master conversion? I figure I'll try that with the original drums first then see if I need to go to discs or just keep it drums.

Those brakes are great when set up as per the manual. I have driven my 54 without the booster (when it was being rebuilt) and had no problem stopping the car. Power assist doesn't improve braking it just means you use less effort at the pedal. Those brakes on that 51 were badly set up/maintained.
Phil

[Mowerhoarder]

Dn,
That's kinda what I was thinking. This car was (believe it or not) owned by a little old lady who bought it new and drove it up until she couldn't and it was passed down to her grandson who daily drove it and then sold it to the guy I was going to buy it from. I imagine the brakes would have to be pretty good to be driven by someone that light 

[dn010]

It really is a night and day difference between driving with brakes that are not adjusted correctly, leaking and worn out, compared to when you have everything new, cut, leak free and "master" adjusted. The brakes on my 57 used to be scary, so much that I was also looking into a conversion. A the time, a conversion was too much money. I just repaired and replaced everything. I had a few frozen wheel cylinders, I had a rear bearing worn to where it was letting the gear oil leak onto my brake shoes, some of which didn't even have the short shoe installed in the correct location.

I never would have known how great the brakes were on the car without doing that, I couldn't believe it was the same car after it was done. With all that said, it is a good lesson for you to learn now. Look for a car that already had the brakes gone through and paperwork to prove it.

[Lexi]

Very good advice. Clay/Lexi

[Mowerhoarder]

Dn,
That's what I was hoping for, the car has had a BUNCH of work done to it by various different shops and the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking they messed something up in the brakes. It does feel like the shoes are engaging alright but that they're just slipping, like there's oil on the shoes or something like that. I'm kinda reconsidering getting it now, we'll see how it pans out but probably won't be until after the holidays until I can get back up to Michigan and get it (this time with a Uhaul) 

[dn010]

The master adjustment on these cars take quite a bit of time and patience to do, something many shops these days lack. They want cars in and out as fast as possible. You cannot throw new shoes on and call it good. If there actually is a leak, you may be able to spot it by getting down with a flash light and seeing if the bottoms of the backing plates/drums have any evidence of seepage or dripping. I think the uhaul route is your best bet; not only can you work out the known issues on your own time without the pressure of a long drive ahead, you can also go over everything in more detail to identify things that could be an issue in the near future that you can take care of now before you're left stranded.

[Mowerhoarder]

Dn,
I'm still thinking it over but I'm like 82% sure I'm gonna get this one, 100% sure I'll get a trailer if I do though.

[Mowerhoarder]

Update: I got the car! I absolutely love this thing, got the brakes sorted with a "quick" bleed and it drives fantastic, replaced some bulbs and cleaned the whole thing with lysol and windex which almost got all the old car mold smell out of it. There are some issues though: the main one being the generato not really charging. I was told it was rebuilt but its just acting pretty odd. When I come to a stop, the gen light turns on and when I accelerate it goes off, not a big deal but sometimes when I'm driving the gen light turns on as the engine shifts and lowers rpm. Seems fine when I rev it and the light goes off and comes back down to idle, light stays off, then I put it in gear and the rpms drop a bit and it's back on. The guy I got it from was messing with some relay looking points contact box thing under the hood, I'm assuming the contacts on those need to be pretty clean. Anybody have any ideas of what's going on?

[PHIL WHYTE CLC 14192]

Update: I got the car! I absolutely love this thing, got the brakes sorted with a "quick" bleed and it drives fantastic, replaced some bulbs and cleaned the whole thing with lysol and windex which almost got all the old car mold smell out of it. There are some issues though: the main one being the generato not really charging. I was told it was rebuilt but its just acting pretty odd. When I come to a stop, the gen light turns on and when I accelerate it goes off, not a big deal but sometimes when I'm driving the gen light turns on as the engine shifts and lowers rpm. Seems fine when I rev it and the light goes off and comes back down to idle, light stays off, then I put it in gear and the rpms drop a bit and it's back on. The guy I got it from was messing with some relay looking points contact box thing under the hood, I'm assuming the contacts on those need to be pretty clean. Anybody have any ideas of what's going on?

The generator light will come on at idle, it is not like an alternator.

[James Landi]

The thing with contact points is a voltage regulator... it MUST be set with precision or you can create electrical havoc.  Generators (as opposed to alternators) must ''rev'' to over 1000 rpm before they begin to generate... the contacts on the regulator MUST protect the generator and the electrical system from connecting when the generator is NOT generating (when the engine is not turning sufficient ''REVS'' to generate power to the battery--thus your gen light comes on as your engine idles.  From what you describe, the regulator seems to set up just fine.  You might consider replacing the generator with an alternator... all cars produced after the mid 1960's have alternators... they charge batteries much more effectively and efficiently. Or simply ignore the gen light, test the battery voltage from inside the car with a simple digital inexpensive volt meter plugged into your cigar lighter.  Hope this helps, James

[Mowerhoarder]

Phil and James,

I guess I didn't explain the issue fully, sorry about that, but the gen light comes on at idle which isn't a problem for me, the problem is that when I'm driving in town (25-35 stop and go) the gen light comes on when the car shifts and rpm lowers and it doesn't go back off until the engine revs higher (50mph or so)

[dn010]

If you want to keep the generator, I'd start by getting a new voltage regulator since who knows what condition or adjustments were made on the current one, and see how the car reacts with it.

Otherwise, look into converting to an alternator. I converted my car to one with an internal voltage regulator so you don't even need the external box anymore. Challenges are adapting it to the engine and the wiring, both of which are easy to figure out if you can make brackets and know how to read a diagram. You'll also need a custom belt size so once you figure out what that is, get a few of them for the trunk.

[dadscad]

I agree with Dan, it sounds like the voltage regulator is not properly adjusted or is  defective. I would also suggest replacing the regulator. But before doing so, look in the factory shop manual for the voltage specifications and the procedure to test the charging system with a digital voltage meter. You may need to replace the generator and regulator as a pair. Be sure all ground connections are clean and tight. Check all wiring connectors at the generator and regulator for broken strands in the wire at the connector/wire joint. Hope this helps, keep us posted on what you find.

[Mowerhoarder]

Well the generator issue is "fixed" at least for now, cleaned the contacts in the regulator as the cover was off it for a year or so and sprayed it with electronics cleaner and still didn't work, cleaned and sanded the wires connecting to it and coated them in dielectric grease and still nothing, whacked the generator and the cover with the handle of a screwdriver and the gen light went off and hasn't popped up since. It still works as it comes on when the car is cranking but I'm still a little skeptical. Drove it about 30 miles today in stop and go traffic with no issues so I guess it's fixed?

[dadscad]

Very good! It sounds like the brushes in the generator were sticking or close to the end of life. The jarring from the screwdriver handle got them to settle down on the armature and make better contact.