1976 Eldorado front knuckle

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

I am trying to remember what I did, but on the old one, at the top joint, I can see the hammer marks on one side where I belted the bejesus out of it whilst holding a larger hammer on the opposite side to act as an anvil.

The bottom one the taper is largest at the upper end, so with the nut at the bottom, I probably massaged that joint from underneath.   I don't see any hammer marks at that joint.

Maybe I removed the axle first, before driving that joint upwards?

I know that with the axle out, there is plenty of room to move.

My biggest problem was that the suspension was out of the car (The car was at the recycler in USA, so no assistance there to hold it still) and I couldn't undo the nut, so it had to be drilled out, then split.   Note the bent crow bar.

Bruce.

[Roger Zimmermann]

You may now better understand why I don't want to have such vehicle! with my 58 kg (128 pounds) how could I remove that nut?
Is the idler arm still OK from your parts car?
Richard, I'm sending a PM to you.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Roger,

You need what I use, a 4 Foot Torque Wrench.   Unto almost anything.

Bruce.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Those are truck's tools!

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

The only Truck tool, if one could call it that, is the large Torque Wrench.   The others, apart from the small one are 1/2" drive, and only register to 200 ft.lbs, and the small one is 3/8" drive, and is Inch Pounds.

The large one is a 3/4" drive, and goes up to 1,000 Ft.lbs.

Trust me, that big one is really helpful in working on the Axle Nuts.

Bruce.

[Cadman-iac]

  Well, let me try this again. (I woke up in the middle of the night and had a reply all typed up and ready to send, and I must have fallen asleep and wiped it out).

Bruce,  can the shaft be removed when both ball joints are still attached to the knuckle, or do you need to disconnect the top one?
The bar adjustment is backed off completely, so is there any pressure from it still on the suspension? I'm thinking about adding some pressure to assist in getting the top joint to break free so I don't beat the snot out of it and risk damage to the knuckle.
Once it's disconnected, can you pull the knuckle out far enough to get the shaft out?
Gotta think of the questions I need to ask you while you are up, otherwise I'll have to wait until you get up in the morning,  the middle of the night here.

If the shaft is still in place, can you get the lower arm and joint out of the knuckle, is there enough room to do that?
  I think that's all I have. Thanks for your  invaluable assistance. The service manual doesn't give information like this.

   Rick

[Cadman-iac]

And....... I missed you,  wasn't typing fast enough!
Catch you tonight then.

[Cadman-iac]

  Alright,  here's what I'm facing now Bruce. I've got the upper ball joint loose and away from the knuckle, and the shaft is removed from the hub. However I'm still not able to get the lower ball joint to break free from the knuckle.
  Also, I can see some free play in what I'm hoping is just the bearings. The hub moves up and down within the knuckle, but from what I can see, it looks like it's between the inner and outer races of the bearings themselves.
I tried getting the hub to move out of the bearings and it moved just a bit, but I'm afraid to hit it too hard because I don't have a good angle so I can swing the hammer and not hit something else.

I got the upper ball joint to come out by using a piece of square steel tube under the arm after I raised the whole suspension.  I put the tube between the arm and the ground, then I let the suspension down slowly and the joint popped right out of the knuckle.
Unfortunately that trick won't work for the lower ball joint. Any ideas?

  Rick

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Rick,

Once the axle is out, there is no reason why you cannot simply bash the bottom ball joint upwards, and clear of the knuckle.

Loosen the nut, then just bash it with a larger hammer, till it is free, then remove the nut, unless you have really destroyed the nut and thread.

These knuckles will take a lot of pounding, so don't be squeamish.   Just don't damage yourself in the process.

Plus, once the pressure is released from the main axle nut, the bearing cone is free to move, and in the process will push out the inner grease seal.   I found this out when I was moving my own car out of the garage to wash the engine bay in the drive.   I had removed the axle to make it easier to clean, but in doing so, created more problems as I was trying to push the car back inside.

The Cups are retained in place by the Knuckle and retainer, but the cones (inner bearing part) is held together by the axle nut.

Bruce.

[Cadman-iac]

  I got that, and it makes perfect sense. The problem I've been having is I don't have any room to swing a hammer to hit the stud. I've got the nut off, and the shaft is finally out. But the car is sitting on stacked rims, there's no wheels and tires on it. I can only jack it up just so far, but it's still not far enough to get the room to swing.
I've been trying to use the weight of the knuckle to help get the joint to come loose. I'm jacking it up by the stud, so if it should break loose, it'll just drop onto the jack.
It actually was pretty easy to get the upper one loose. I just used the weight of the car against itself by blocking the arm and dropping the car, and pop!! It's out.
But I'm not that lucky with this lower one. I guess I'm just going to have to beat the cr@p out of it and hope I don't damage the knuckle. I was hoping that you might have a suggestion on how to go about this.
I'd try to make one of those tools for the ball joints but you can't really see what it looks like in the picture the service manual shows.
On a truck I just use a long bolt and nut and force the two studs against each other until they pop loose.  But this thing was put together upside down and that method doesn't work.
I'm gonna go to sleep and try again in the morning. Maybe I'll dream of a way to do this if I'm lucky. Lol !!
I'm really grateful to you for your suggestions and expertise,  thank you very much Bruce. I'll keep you and Roger informed on my progress. Have a great day.

   Rick

[Cadman-iac]

  Ok, here's the scoop!
It's finally off the car. I had to remove the upper arm to get enough room to swing a hammer and hit it squarely. But just a few hits and it quickly broke free.

  After putting it up on my vice, a couple more swings of the hammer and the hub and bearings fell out. Not sure if that's a good sign.

  Here's some pictures of the knuckle where the hub/bearings go. It appears to me that they had been spinning at one point in time, although I don't feel any ridge from it.
Roger and Bruce, if you would, please have a look at this and let me know what you think. I'm not selling anything that is bad or worn beyond repair.
Thanks, Rick

[Roger Zimmermann]

Congratulation for a well done job! Sorry, due to my lack of experience with those parts I cannot say if the bore has some wear. Could you again insert the bearings without much force?
If the part is good, it's sold to the guy in Switzerland!

[Cadman-iac]

  I'll try that and see what  it does and I'll let you know. Give me a bit to try it. Keep fingers crossed!!

[Cadman-iac]

  Well Roger,
I wouldn't want to use it if I needed one. I blasted it to clean it up and to check out the bore better. Then I reinstalled the hub, which went back in fairly easily once I got the thing going in squarely. I  then took pictures of it for you, and then removed it again. Half way out it dropped another inch on its own, and I thought it was going to hit my foot before it stopped, then I lightly tapped it the rest of the way out with the wooden hammer handle.
I took a couple more pictures of the bore after that.
It's your call, but I'm not impressed. Like I said, I wouldn't use it myself. I apologize for taking up your time while I took this off.
I'd love to make a sale, but not at the cost of my reputation, or your displeasure. I am sorry I wasted your time, (and mine).
  You might want to contact the person who listed the one on ebay, the one I sent you the picture of the advertisement on.

Anybody want to buy a forged paperweight for cheap?

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

G'day Rick,

Looking at those pictures, it doesn't look as bad as the one I replaced in my mates '71, and depending on what the actual measurements were, using a good inside micrometer, I would have no hesitation in using yours, and inserting a smear of Loctite Super Bearing Mount on the back of the cups.

What we have to remember is that anything this old, with mileage, could be worn a bit, but without having a brand new part to check against, knowing what is worn, as against, completely worn out, if hard to decide.

I am posting these pictures again of the one I took out of the '71, and the only reason we found it was bad was because of a squealing noise that was coming from the left front of the car, which the owner was complaining about, but I could never hear it whenever I was in the car.   Turned out to be the grease seal, and when I eventually did hear the noise, it was loud.

The previous repair to it was done with a centre punch in an attempt to decrease the ID, and it must have worked for a bit, but, seeing the wear on the grease seal, it wasn't good enough, rendering the hub worthy of replacement.   I haven't thrown it out, as I want to see if I can sleeve the grease sealing area, which would not weaken the knuckle, but be useable in an emergency.

Plus, for Roger, I included the torque wrench being used to tighten the nut.

Bruce.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Rick,

I forgot to ask, what was the condition of the bearings you took out?   

Were they the reason the outer cone spun?

There has to be a reason why the damage occurred.   Or, maybe the spinning bearing may have been a prior repair?

Bruce.

[Cadman-iac]

     I couldn't see any wear in the bore, nothing obvious anyway, and I don't have an inside micrometer to measure it with. The bearings are still on the hub, as everything came out together. I tried to get just the hub to move, but the bearings just moved instead. You can't really see anything wrong with the bearing on the inboard side, except that the cage for the rollers is moving all over, and you can't see the outer one at all because of the retainer being in the way. The grease is very black and thick like it was overheated at some point and there isn't much of it either.

    When everything was still on the car, I tried the method that the service manual says to use to check the bearings by using a screwdriver between the knuckle and the shaft when everything was still on the car, and you could see and feel the hub moving up and down within the knuckle. It would also move in and out some. I was hoping that was just the bearings.

I did see how your knuckle was "repaired" by using a punch to knurl  the bore. It may work for a while, but not a permanent solution.

[Roger Zimmermann]

I will forward the pictures to the owner with the proper comments; he will decide. Thanks for the good pictures and for your time as well as the comprehensive hints from Bruce!

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Be interesting to see just how bad his knuckle is.

Bruce.

[Cadman-iac]

 Roger,
I want to be clear about the condition of this knuckle, I don't want to mislead you into thinking that this part is usable.
  Although I did offer it and I can always use the money, (I jumped the gun), and I will not sell it because of it's condition. If I had this to do over, I would have checked out the part thoroughly before offering it to you, and I won't sell a part knowing that it is not usable.
Because it is a safety issue I will not sell it, and I am very sorry for the trouble and inconvenience I have caused.

My sincerest apologies to you and your friend.
    Rick