radial tires on older wheels

[PHIL WHYTE CLC 14192]

Crikey ! didn't anyone read my previous comments about fitting bias tyres to cars that had them originally being the right thing to do ?
Phil

[35-709]

    Phil who?

[STDog]

What a pleasant surprise to find that the opposite was true. The car tracked better and had more of the floating feeling you were talking about.

One though Lou,

Was the front end alignment done to the correct spec for each tire type? Different specs are used for radials, and using bias tire specs on radials will cause tracking issues. As for the feel, what pressure did you have in the radials? Again, radials have different specs.

[PHIL WHYTE CLC 14192]

Nice one Geoff !!!!

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

G'day Lou,

My understanding is that the correct Toe-in specifications for Radial Tyres is minus 1/16".

Bruce.

[Greg McDonnell]

I too had my alignment changed to accomodate the radials when I put them on my '66 Eldorado.  The tire shop knew what they were doing and commented to me the alignment would be different for radials before I had an opportunity to ask them.  The radial ride and handling was okay I suppose-a bit harsh as compared to the softer ride of the bias ply tires.  However, I missed the vintage look as well as how the car sat (taller) when it had its bias plies.  I never liked the 'dumpy' look of the radials.  They always seemed to look like they needed air and the car just looked squatty as compared to how it looked with the bias plies.  The AACA event was the catalyst to get me to spend the money on the correct reproduction bias plies and I could not be any happier with them!  As little as I drive my car, I am not worried about the feedback when I go around corners as well as the fact the bias plies wear more quickly.  The car looks 'right' with those triple stripe bias plies and I doubt I would ever go back to radials. 

Greg McDonnell
CLC#20841

[Caddyholic]

235

[Scot Minesinger]

This subject would not come up much if it were not for the point deduction at GN.  It is impractical and a harsh burden for me to drive my 1970 Cadillac across Country on radials and then switch to bias plies to avoid a point deduction at the show.  The primary reason bias plies are made today is to avoid point deductions at car shows, a ridiculous reason.  Unfortunately, I think bias plies are probably less safe today to drive on then back when they were the only tire available.  Most of our driving is fair weather, slow and easy, not real world driving - which sometimes happens if you drive your classic a lot like me.  In the 1970's I replaced the bias ply tires on my 1965 Thunderbird and it was a huge improvement in performance and cosmetics.  Never driven bias plies again. 

[Jon S]

This subject would not come up much if it were not for the point deduction at GN.  It is impractical and a harsh burden for me to drive my 1970 Cadillac across Country on radials and then switch to bias plies to avoid a point deduction at the show.  The primary reason bias plies are made today is to avoid point deductions at car shows, a ridiculous reason.  Unfortunately, I think bias plies are probably less safe today to drive on then back when they were the only tire available.  Most of our driving is fair weather, slow and easy, not real world driving - which sometimes happens if you drive your classic a lot like me.  In the 1970's I replaced the bias ply tires on my 1965 Thunderbird and it was a huge improvement in performance and cosmetics.  Never driven bias plies again.

Scot -

I couldn't agree more with all of your comments.  My dad switched the 1958 to Radials back in the mid-late 1970's and the car has never seen bias plies since.  The best of the bias plies in the day (B. F. Goodrich Silvertown or U. S. Royal Super Safety 800) never got more than 18,000 miles whereas Radials clock 50,000 plus.

We noticed a definite ride and handling difference immediately and as to alignment, the alignment was never changed due to the radials and the last set I replaced wore perfectly even at 50,000 miles.

I first experienced Radials when I bought my 1973 Lincoln which came with a higher profile 230 x 15 Michelin X.  Yes, 230, not 225 or 235.  It has become a discontinued size.  Based on the handling capabilities of my Lincoln, my dad decided to try Radials on the Cadillac and was never so happy.

Some day the Judging criteria will come around as safety and handling should be a concern as well.  I'm not saying the bias ply tire should disappear for those who prefer the look, but the point deductions for not having them should cease.

I don't have my car judged, so I have no ax to grind.

I have attached a picture of a 225 x 15 Michelin X to illustrate how much higher a profile it has compared to my Coker B F Goodrich 235/75/15's:

[Ralph Messina CLC 4937]

Gentlemen,

Does anyone know what the club's judging position is on the new style radials with bias style (sharp shoulder) side walls?

[Scot Minesinger]

Yes, if you spent a million dollars a tire to replicate an exact look of a bias ply tire, but it was a radial - same deduction as if you bought an obvious radial from K Mart.

[TonyZappone #2624]

This horse has been whipped to death.  58 convert:  Diamondbacks on for app. 15 years.  47 Convert: ditto.  41 60S: sold to livery service, have heard nothing negative from them put on at same time as other two.  Cadillac LaSalle club deducts, I don't care what they think:  Classic Car Club of America allows, as does the Packard Club.  Quite frankly, I don't know how to drive on bias-belt tires.

[Cadillac Jack 82]

Nothing wrong with Bias Ply tires folks.  These cars were designed with these tires in mind.  Sure a Radial offers a better ride but I had no problems driving my 54 Buick some 300 miles with Bias Ply tires.  You just have to be mindful of lines in the road that the car may wanna grab.

[Scot Minesinger]

The preference for bias ply tire is all about form over function, and I don't even agree with that.  One of the more critical safety features on a car is compromised for a minor appearance issue-I don't understand.  Back in the 1960's one of the most common causes of an accident due to a car malfunction was tire failure.  The downside risk far outweighs the upside gain.  Are you sending your pregnant daughter and son and law off to the hospital on an urgent drive to deliver the baby in a radial tire car or bias ply given all other things equal? - yep thought so. 

Have driven my 1970 Cadillac 37k miles so far on radials keeping pace with highway traffic (speed limit is 70 mph in VA and that means everyone drives 75-80mph) in every instance.  Probably 50% of the mileage is highway.

I would not care so much except it is point deduction at GN.

[TonyZappone #2624]

The Packard national club began to allow radials when three of their largest collectors, all from Ohio stood up in unison and said keep deducting for radials, and our 22 Packards are no longer going go national meets.  Guess what?  Radials are allowed.

[Dan LeBlanc]

We can discuss it here until we're all blue in the face and nothing will change.

If folks are really, REALLY concerned, speak up.  Do something about it.  Write to our chief judge.  Contact the regional VP that you elected. Come to a board meeting and express your opinion.

If radials become allowed, people then have a choice.  I already have bias tires fitted, and I use them.  Traffic up here is very different than elsewhere in the world, so I feel fine riding on them.  Would I continue to use them, probably.  I like how they look and the ride height with them.  But that's personal preference.

Either way.  Like I've said EVERY time this discussion comes up, if you want change, voice your opinion to the powers that be.  This is not government.  This is a car club.  At least here, what the majority asks for, they are likely to receive, but, if nobody speaks up and there is no perceived movement in favour of a policy change, then why make change for the sake of change.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

I think it boils down to a simple matter of two cars: One with, the other without.

Should the participant who goes the extra mile not have his efforts recognized and rewarded in kind? 

[Scot Minesinger]

It is my understanding that Bill Anderson currently is considering this issue, so hopefully we will have a ruling before GN 2016.

Radials are not generally installed for budget reasons and do not represent someone not going the extra mile.  It costs me $1,200 just to get the Diamondback tires delivered plus, media blasting the 5 rims, powder coating, mounting, balancing and installing, plus disposal of previous tires.  Diamondback markets the tire I bought as a 67-70 Cadillac tire and really the second thin stripe of white wall is too wide.  Friends have paid even more to have the exact pattern copied onto radials by Diamondback.  In general I spare my babies nothing, especially when it comes to making them enjoyable to drive.  I don't know what bias ply tires cost as have never considered them because when I started driving in 1976 radial tires were by far the way to go.  However, I doubt really anyone is using radials to save money or avoid going the extra mile.

[Jon S]

Getting back to the OP, yes you can mount radial tires on older rims.

[Cadillac Jack 82]

Scot can't fully agree with you there.  There are by a large majority more motor related fatalities today then back then.  Sure a radial is a more modern "safe" tire but I'll stick with my OEM.  I don't care about points more so than I care about what was correct on the car when it was new.  Again it boils down to choice.

FYI I'm relocating to Fairfax in the next week or so so for all of you Fairfax Co Caddy owners let me know when the next meeting is and I'll be happy to come/sign up.