No Spark, 56 Cadillac Ignition problem

[Christopher Petti]

Well it was strange. I had just put the car back together. I mean I just had the Generator rebuilt and the car was running consistently. That evening I took her out and ran her down Woodward Ave. Too see what she was made of. Ran good. Was in a horrible need of a Tune up though. So I had the parts and decided to tune the car up last weekend. That's when trouble struck. I replaced all the plugs and replaced the wires 1 by one. I then numbered them with tape.  I was like a dumbass undoing the lead cable and had accidentally left the key in the ignition in the on position no less.  Anyways, I tried gapping just like the manuel had said when I didn't realize the points were already gapped. Well I did what the Shop Manuel said. I Twisted till the car started misfiring and then I turned it 180 degree's in the opposite direction. The car just shut off and hasn't started since. I have tested the lead wire from the coil to the Points, ok. I checked the ground, ok. I checked all my lines except the yellow line that goes into the other end of the coil resistor. Which I bought a new coil resistor and it doesn't look like the one I took off the car. I gapped my points to .016. I did it correctly. I pulled a spark plug out of the block while still attached to the wire and shut off all the lights and cranked it. No spark. I am not taking it to a electrical guy. I'm going to get this. My cousin through this whole thing is trying to convince me of a petronix system. I want to make this system work before I move on to electronic distributor. I already took the engine to TDC and re arranged the wires so they were in order and set up everything. I know the resistor isn't the problem because we rigged that up to test it with a new coil to see if that was the issue. My cousin is starting to think it's the yellow wire or the red wire going to the resistor. Any suggestions? I'm sure I'm missing something simple. Both of us have never worked on a distributor like this before. He has  5.0 stang that is computer operated.
Thanks,

[Glen]

Do you have a volt meter?  If so connect the meter between the point’s terminal on the coil and ground.  With the points open you should have about 9 volts and zero volts with the points closed.  If that test works and you still don’t have any spark then check the condenser (AKA capacitor) it is vital to generating the spark. 

Also when you are checking for spark; be sure the threaded part of the spark plug is well grounded.  That has always been a problem for me to get a good ground on a painted engine.  And the spark plug wire tends to keep the plug off ground.   

Let us know what you find.

Glen

[J. Gomez]

Christopher,

The yellow wire at the resistor goes to the solenoid; the positive side wire (black) of the ignition coil is also splice at the same termination. The other side of the resistor there is a pink wire to ends at the ignition switch.

When you start cranking the solenoid places a direct 12V on the yellow wire, once the crank stops (engine running) the pink lead supplies the 12V through the resistor to the ignition coil reducing the voltage.

As Glen suggested using a voltmeter (or a test light) checking that voltage is present at coil positive side.

Good luck…!   

[Christopher Petti]

OK, I've gone through the whole system. I 've checked all the wires. The Resistor was Zorched. So that has been replaced and secure connections have been made. The Red or pink wire which is hot when you turn the key at the ignition proved to be working and is hot. Then after we replaced the Resistor the Yellow wire had good current flowing through it. But during the whole process of trying to turn over the engine figuring out this issue the Starter went. It became so weak it couldn't turn over the engine once. I yanked the starter today and am going to have it rebuilt by a really good guy. Same guy that did my Generator. All the Lines are correct going to the distributor. I checked the gaps, everything is fine. Then I made sure that the lead wire and the condenser wire were both screwed in good and with the isolator in place there was no connection to the ground. I also checked the battery and it's putting out 13.75. The system is good. I think once the starter is put back in business I will be in good shape. For some reason I can't turn the distributor. That was one thing I noticed messing around today. I'm going to try the oil filter wrench and see if that works at all. This thing is in there good. I hope it's not one with the universe. How loose do you have to make that bolt? ANyways. Thanks for your responses both were read by me and my cousin today and helped us out as we troubleshot the ignition system. I'll keep you updated on what happens when I put the starter back in. See if this doesn't do the trick. The starter has been giving me problems since day one.

[Christopher Petti]

  I know you folks have 1956 cadillac's Could you check a bolt for me. I'm taking off the valve covers. On the drivers side there is a bracket that goes over the valve cover making it unable to come off unless it is removed. Well I'm having a problem with the bottom bolt that is down by the first spark plug. Does it loosen like all the rest of the bolts. I am having trouble with it because it is so rusted on. I just wanted top know that I'm twisting it the right way. Righty tighty lefty loosy. I don't want to break off the head.

[John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.]

Chris,

That would be a head bolt which is torqued down. So leverage is the answer.

John W

[Otto Skorzeny]

Soak it in PB Blaster and keep trying with a 6 point socket. I would use the air wrench as a last resort. No need to break a head bolt.

[Christopher Petti]

Ok that's what I've been doing. I have been hitting it with blaster and using my forearm strength. Thanks for the suggestions. I'm impatient and this is holding me up. Thats why I wondered if I should use a air tool. Thanks, I'll try and have more patience with these head bolts. One more question. if your listening. My distributor bolt is loose but won't let me twist it right or left to time the engine. I was going to give it some taps with a rubber mallet and see if that would free it up in there but it is really frozen. I sprayed blaster around where it goes into the engine to see if that would help at all. I haven't driven the car 1,000 miles yet, I'm just getting to know her. Lots of issues.

[J. Gomez]

Christopher,

That head bolt that holds the power steering pump bracket is a standard bolt thread pattern. I would second Forrest suggestion by using a 6pt short socket with a sturdy 3/8” breaker bar first. As a second option using an air impact wrench start at the lowest setting hopefully the tapping would help loosen the bolt before reaching the higher setting so you could go back to the breaker bar.

As for the distributor not turning left or right, the culprit could be a hardened “O” ring freezing the distributor from turning. More WD40, Silicon lube, or PB blaster to get lubrication into the “O” ring.

Good luck..!

[Christopher Petti]

Thanks Jose,
  I'm going to give it a go this Friday night when I get a chance to work on it again.

[Christopher Petti]

Ok,
  Once I get me Valve covers off, I'm beating them into perfect condition. They have a few dents from the previous owner. I am looking for the Cadillac blue to shoot the Vavle covers. What company makes it in a spray can and what is the paint code? Is it an Engine enamel so that it can take the heat?

[Walter Youshock]

Bill Hirsch.  Order Cadillac Engine Blue

http://www.hirschauto.com/

It really is an excellent paint.  Order 2 or 3 spray cans and maybe a quart for brushing.  It's always good to have some extra laying around for touch-up!

[J. Gomez]

Christopher,

Coopers also carries the same paint from Bill Hirsch, in case you’ll need other items to complete the job..! http://www.coopersvintage.com/

Good luck..!

[Christopher Petti]

I just ordered the paint, Decent price at Hirsch. While I'm getting schooled by the pro's here. Thanks Walter and Jose. I have to wash the bottom of the car before I put up the new Stainless Exhaust. Is there any product that you would advise picking up to take off all the soot and dirt and crap. The car had no exhaust pipe from the muffler back so it's al ittle nasty down there. Not terrible but when I was repairing the gas leak dirt was just falling down from where the gas filler tube comes down from the tail lamp.

Thanks

[Walter Youshock]

Oven cleaner and a pressure washer!

I have to ask:  is the car undercoated or are the floors primer/paint? 

[Christopher Petti]

Well I got the breaker bar out on Friday and yes! That head bolt popped right off. I love the way this car is put together so nicely. No one monched any of the bolts. Everything is factory on the car, it's coming off so smoothly. Anyways. I have the bracket off and moved the Power steering out of the way so I could get the head gasket off. Which I'm going to take some time this week and beat back into shape. Paint will be arriving on Wed. Oven Cleaner Walt? Really? OK, I was told to use Castrol Super Clean in the Purple bottle. I am borrowing my buddies pressure washer. I think it's going to be a messy job, but after all the gaskets are replaced and all the leaks are taken care of the car is going to look magnificent on the underside. Last I looked the wheel wells are painted and the floorpan is undercoated. Overall there is a tiny bit of surface rust but nothing that you would look twice at.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

When you pressure-wash the engine bay, try and keep any of the splashing of excess water and the like from going onto the finished surfaces of the exterior paintwork.

Polished paint doesn't like heavy detergents and grease removers.

Bruce.

[Glen]

Another suggestion… when you reassemble the engine use anti-seize on all threaded fasteners.  It will make it easier to remove the bolts the next time. 

Glen

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

One problem with using Anti-seize on threads like Head Bolts is that the loss of friction increases the amount of stretch on the bolt shaft when using the Torque Wrench to tighten them up.

Too much pressure in this area can destroy the integrity of the fastening, and goes against the way that the Engine Designers designed everything to work together in the clamping process.

Antiseize on things like Exhaust Manifold Bolts, Exhaust Flange Nuts, and other parts that are subject to evcessive heating and cooling, and corrosion is okay.

Bruce.

[Christopher Petti]

I should have spent some time tonight trying to get the distributor to move. Is it a possablity that the o ring at the base has frozen in the block? I'm going to give it another shot tomorrow and see if that is it. I need to get it to move slightly. It doesn't want to budge at all. I also don't want to hurt the cast aluminum of the Distributor. OI! ANyways, I have my paint for the valve covers, I just ordered my tranny pan gasket. I'm nearing comletion on this car. I'm sure things will keep going wrong the more I keep driving it but right now my laundry list of things that need to be done is almost coming to a close. I think I have one more month of weekends to go.