I don't like driving my 1976 stock Eldorado at night. Those headlight just don't seem very useful. I've done some searching on this site and halogens seem to be an option. LEDs don't seem to be worth the hassle. I'm looking for something relatively easy to fit my relatively modest skills. If I go the halogen route, is there a recommended product? Do I lose the fiber optic indicators? And is there some writeup where someone has done this so that I don't end up frying my electricals? Is halogen my best bet or is there something that can be done to improve the stock system? Thanks!!
G'day Kevin,
I am the person that adapted his Fibre Optics to work with the replacement globes.
The secret is to aim the end slightly towards the illuminating part of the globe to get the best results.
The high beam only can be positioned a bit different, whereas the Low Beam needs access to that filament. Notice on the back side, the brass ferrule has been filed flat on one side to assist in locating.
Replacing the lights was a no-brainer, as with the E-Z-Eye tint on the windscreen, one needs all the illumination that one can get. Next time you are out in the dark of night, you can see just how much light is lost by the tinting if you turn the lights on, then open the window and look out past the windscreen post. Yes, I was shocked.
Bruce. >:D
Thank you!!
You can also use the halogen replacements for the sealed beam bulbs,they are physically identical to the original sealed beams, but have a halogen bulb inside. The nice thing about these is if you should catch a rock and the lens cracks it doesn't burn out like a typical sealed beam bulb would.
They're just a little more price wise than the sealed beam, but they give off a much better light and brightness. I've been using them for all my vehicles for years now. They have ones that replace the old round 2 light system, the larger rectangular 2 light system, and the rectangular 4 light system.
I think for your Eldorado they are a Sylvania H4651 for the high beam, and a Sylvania H4656 for the low beam, if you have the 4 rectangular bulbs. Those are the same as my 88 Suburban and what was on my old 75 Coupe Deville.
Easy to change, plugs in exactly the same, and they have the little glass tit on the back for the fiber optic to work with.
Rick
Maybe poke around some other GM forums to see what they are doing? F body? Trucks? You would think by now someone would have come up with a decent LED.
Unless something has changed the last 20 or so years of production for the original style sealed beam lights were crap. Story I heard was the die or molds or what ever it was that Sylvania or GE or who ever it was used to make them had worn to the point where they knew the quality was not what it should be and they didn't feel that there was enough of a market left to invest in new tooling so they sold the worn out machines to someone else who just patched them up with chewing gum and duct tape and went back into production. Result is the shape isn't quite optimum for reflecting the light where you wanted it and they just kept getting worse.
The issue with the monitors is the original bulbs had the sealing nipple on the back from the glass manufacturing process. This was where the fiber optic was pointed and that nipple area didn't get any of the reflective coating so light from the bulbs would basically shine out that hole. Later production bulbs they changed the process and used a fairly opaque plastic plug so you just don't get the amount of light through it that you did on the originals.
In Europe the sealed beams are not allowed so all American cars get new lamps from Hella or Bosch. To change them is not a big deal and they come with a regular H4 halogen bulb. Better than sealed beam but still not good.
A while ago Osram and Phillips came out with LED bulbs with a H4 socket and exactly the same bulb size like the regular H4 bulbs. So it is a simple plug and play game.
These LEDs have 230% (!!!) more light than the regular H4; last forever and use less current.
I have them in my 76 Eldorado and my 79 Lincoln. Hi Beam is now like the fireworks.
It is worth the "Hassle" !
You can still get new old halogen sealed beams for cheap for a big improvement in performance. There are other ways of getting more volts to the bulbs that would marginally improve performance, or newer Hellas or LEDs but the least invasive that still lets you keep your lamp monitors are the halogens, preferably the older kind with the nipple on the back or plastic lens to direct the light into the fiber optic.
Quote from: winger888 on March 12, 2024, 04:02:44 AMIn Europe the sealed beams are not allowed so all American cars get new lamps from Hella or Bosch. To change them is not a big deal and they come with a regular H4 halogen bulb. Better than sealed beam but still not good.
A while ago Osram and Phillips came out with LED bulbs with a H4 socket and exactly the same bulb size like the regular H4 bulbs. So it is a simple plug and play
Is there an easy way to get the European setup in the USA and if we were to get them will they stand out and annoy other drivers? I know thats a strange concern to have when so many owners buy amazon and ebay crap that isn't even remotely legal and just to make sure they blind oncoming drivers do the same with their fog lights which they always have on.
Quote from: smokuspollutus on March 12, 2024, 10:27:52 AMYou can still get new old halogen sealed beams for cheap for a big improvement in performance. There are other ways of getting more volts to the bulbs that would marginally improve performance, or newer Hellas or LEDs but the least invasive that still lets you keep your lamp monitors are the halogens, preferably the older kind with the nipple on the back or plastic lens to direct the light into the fiber optic.
Have you bought these recently? And you found their performance decent? Its probably been 5+ years since I tried and back then I ended up keeping the original non halogens that were either on the car when I got it or in my junk pile because they had a much more useful beam. The 'new' ones were brighter but it wasn't directed anywhere useful. Also how do you know if you are getting ones with the nipple or plastic? Or are you getting them from a store where the packaging lets you see that?
I have always wondered about LED globes for headlights, where the units are designed for reflecting the light that the LED's put out.
The Headlights, unlike other car globes, have a reflector specifically built to put the illumination in one plane when on Dip, and a different projection when on full.
I cannot imagine that any aftermarket supplier would spend vast amounts of money tooling up for lights for cars that haven't used that style of headlight for 40 years.
When I converted a 1975 Mercedes Benz to RHD, all I had to change was the head light globe to get the dipping illumination span correct. I envisaged having to buy an Export Reflectors and Lenses, but found it was just the new globe.
Bruce. >:D
In the US we had the sealed beams from at least the late 40's till into the 90's when some models started using what we called the composite headlamps which are the ones where they tended to be contoured to the body and those use the raw bulbs/globes.
I think I saw a youtube video explaining that headlights were standardized in the USA and originally there was only one option so if you were selling a car to be used on the roads in the USA you had no choice you had to make those lights fit and work. In later years there were a few options but I think it was only maybe 3 or 4 different styles which included imported cars, they had to hack in the USA approved sealed beams.
I don't believe sealed beam units are illegal in Europe, lived in France for years and the CT test allowed them?
I do though have Cibie Euro units in mine with hi/lo bulbs. The inners, main beam only are American halogen and great. However our original wiring (I was told) wasn't heavy enough for hours of halogen use?
The other option is to buy one of those relay kits that allow all your headlamps to run directly off the battery, I think the figure is around 20% better light? There's a guy in the Club that sells the kits.
I remember hearing about the wiring issues and in the context of the 70s/80s rectangle quad beam setup there was no significant difference in the current draw between the standard and halogen styles.
I'm assuming that that rumor started for a reason so there must have been a style where that was not the case and the halogens drew more power. Maybe the pre quad beams?
I too believe that there is not much more current involved by running halogen bulbs/halogen sealed beam. It's a simple calculation by looking at the power (watt) divided by 12 (volts). I don't have bults at home; I thing halogen H4 have 45/55 watts (low/high beam).
Quote from: Cadman-iac on March 12, 2024, 12:09:21 AMYou can also use the halogen replacements for the sealed beam bulbs,they are physically identical to the original sealed beams, but have a halogen bulb inside. The nice thing about these is if you should catch a rock and the lens cracks it doesn't burn out like a typical sealed beam bulb would.
They're just a little more price wise than the sealed beam, but they give off a much better light and brightness. I've been using them for all my vehicles for years now. They have ones that replace the old round 2 light system, the larger rectangular 2 light system, and the rectangular 4 light system.
I think for your Eldorado they are a Sylvania H4651 for the high beam, and a Sylvania H4656 for the low beam, if you have the 4 rectangular bulbs. Those are the same as my 88 Suburban and what was on my old 75 Coupe Deville.
Easy to change, plugs in exactly the same, and they have the little glass tit on the back for the fiber optic to work with.
Rick
Taking your advice, I looked it up on the Sylvania sight and the model numbers are correct! Very good tip. Thank you so much!!!
Quote from: 7gen on March 13, 2024, 08:37:21 PMTaking your advice, I looked it up on the Sylvania sight and the model numbers are correct! Very good tip. Thank you so much!!!
I've never had an issue with the wiring using the halogen sealed beam replacement bulbs. The wattage for these is the same as the incandescent sealed beam bulbs, which is 55 watt for the high beam, and I think it's 45 watt on the low beam just as Roger mentioned. The wattage is limited to those specs by the government. Even the conversion systems I believe are limited to the same maximum wattage.
I've used them on 4 different mid 60's trucks,my 81 El Camino and Malibu, and my 88 Suburban, all with just the stock wiring. And if I ever get my 64 Olds Starfire going, I'll put some in it too.
If you ever do experience a wiring issue, it's really easy to add a pair of relays to run power from your battery and use the stock wires to control the relays.
But like I just said, I haven't found that necessary.
Good luck with your project.
Rick
Dont know about all of Europe but in Germany no sealed beams in antique cars are allowed. The H4 and H7 bulbs draw more current than the sealed beams and it is very common to work with relays. No relays may result in flickering lights after a couple of minutes or a fire near the light-switch (especially Lincolns)
The H4 and H7 from Osram cost about 100€ a pair. No chunk! They are build like a halogen H4/H7 so the light distribution is no problem.
Quote from: TJ Hopland on March 13, 2024, 01:20:38 AMHave you bought these recently? And you found their performance decent? Its probably been 5+ years since I tried and back then I ended up keeping the original non halogens that were either on the car when I got it or in my junk pile because they had a much more useful beam. The 'new' ones were brighter but it wasn't directed anywhere useful. Also how do you know if you are getting ones with the nipple or plastic? Or are you getting them from a store where the packaging lets you see that?
TJ, I should clarify that these are new old Delcos, sylvanias, GE's etc from eBay. Not new from a parts store. So the brightness is better than the regular sealed beams and still has a good spread. So far they have all had the nipple or plastic lens. I saved a few of the plastic lens for the day the supply dries up or at least gets out of my price range. I drive my '83 daily for 9-10 months of the year and do a lot of night driving so I do go through bulbs. With the halogens the lighting is more than decent. And the so-important lamp monitors jive with it.
I haven't had any heat issues in my age range (70s-80s) but it should be noted that these cars came stock with halogen high beams around 1979(?) or maybe 1980, and a switch to halogen low beams came during the 1984 model year. No changes in switches or wire gauge during that time period.
I admit that I haven't had to buy a replacement halogen headlight for years now, so I'm not aware of any issues with the new ones. I don't do a ton of night driving like I used to anymore, and I've also had a stash of bulbs from parts vehicles to pull from when needed.
I'll have to go look at what is available on the shelf in my local stores.
I don't even remember what I put in the 56 headlight assemblies when I restored them. I guess I should check those too now.
Thanks for the heads-up on the quality of new bulbs.
Rick
Thank you for that guys. I always worried when doing long night drives running the halogen for hours? I always though the wiring wouldn't take it. Appreciated.
The firm I was thinking about that does the relay kits is...
https://www.danielsternlighting.com/
...interesting firm.
Didn't know that about Germany. Thanks all.
My guess is there was a popular earlier car that started the rumor that there were issues. Something that maybe had slightly undersized wire to start with and maybe the original bulbs were lower wattage than the 3rd party halogens when they came out.
My guess is the 70's stuff there were enough cars on the road and it was still the current style when the halogens came out so some actual thought and engineering went into them. But a 60's or older car? Seems more likely that a 3rd party just said hey why don't we shove the 80's bulb into the 60's housing. If it was a popular car like say a tri5 chev or mustang that survived in large numbers that actually had a problem you could see why 'they' say its a problem even though for most cars its apparently not.
Quote from: winger888 on March 12, 2024, 04:02:44 AMIn Europe the sealed beams are not allowed so all American cars get new lamps from Hella or Bosch. To change them is not a big deal and they come with a regular H4 halogen bulb. Better than sealed beam but still not good.
A while ago Osram and Phillips came out with LED bulbs with a H4 socket and exactly the same bulb size like the regular H4 bulbs. So it is a simple plug and play game.
These LEDs have 230% (!!!) more light than the regular H4; last forever and use less current.
I have them in my 76 Eldorado and my 79 Lincoln. Hi Beam is now like the fireworks.
It is worth the "Hassle" !
Hi Peter !
Where did you get your lamps ? -76 Eldorado has square ones but my -73 has round ones (normal selaed beams).
So you don`t have to do anything else than change the lamp and then put an Osram led bulb, correct ?
I would like to give it a try.
Thanks
Mika
Hi Mika,
that is correct. My Eldorado has square and the Lincoln has round lamps. Just make sure you have the H4 bulb lamps and sockets.
I got my bulbs from Sebastian but I guess you can easy order them online.
Regards Peter
Quote from: winger888 on April 18, 2024, 02:10:41 AMHi Mika,
that is correct. My Eldorado has square and the Lincoln has round lamps. Just make sure you have the H4 bulb lamps and sockets.
I got my bulbs from Sebastian but I guess you can easy order them online.
Regards Peter
Thanks Peter, but I meant the lamps, to replace the sealed beam.
Where did you find your own ones ?
Mika
If you plan on using halogens, put relays in the area of the headlights themselves. Halogens use some serious power and the relays will pick up the load off of the headlight switch and the dimmer switch.
LED's are great, but look ugly as sin. They also cause a white out when driving in fog. Incandescent bulbs are the best for foggy driving. I have the regular halogen sealed beams in mine. Aimed properly, there are no issues with night driving.
For maintaining usage of the fiber optic monitors, if the little rubber sections are missing in the headlight plugs, cut a 3/8" section of 5/16" vacuum line and as you are plugging the pigtail into the rear of the bulb, slip the section of vacuum line right into the center of the plug and press it home. While you have the plugs off of the bulbs, take a toothbrush and clean up the ends of the fiber optics. It makes the hood and rear deck monitors so much brighter.
Quote from: Big Fins on April 19, 2024, 11:59:27 AMIf you plan on using halogens, put relays in the area of the headlights themselves. Halogens use some serious power and the relays will pick up the load off of the headlight switch and the dimmer switch
What year and model did you experience this 'serious power' draw when compared to the OE bulbs on? I keep seeing that statement and assume its true but I don't think anyone has ever came up with details. In the 70's GM cars at least the bulbs I have personally measured there was no significant difference in the draw between the types.
Yes it will reduce the draw if you install a relay but does it really gain you anything vs adding extra parts? I would argue in 70's GMs no gains. I'm open to hear about other years where it is an issue? Maybe in the context of outside the USA where they are fitting bulbs no originally designed for USA cars I could see the draw being different.
Quote from: Big Fins on April 19, 2024, 11:59:27 AMFor maintaining usage of the fiber optic monitors, if the little rubber sections are missing in the headlight plugs, cut a 3/8" section of 5/16" vacuum line and as you are plugging the pigtail into the rear of the bulb, slip the section of vacuum line right into the center of the plug and press it home. While you have the plugs off of the bulbs, take a toothbrush and clean up the ends of the fiber optics. It makes the hood and rear deck monitors so much brighter.
This only works if you have a fairly old production bulb that still has that nipple on the back, or have you found a reliable source for bulbs that still have the glass nipple? Last time I was working on a possibly 80 Cadillac I tried some different brands and kept getting identical bulbs in different boxes that had an white opaque plastic plug instead of the clear glass nipple and they just didn't let much light out. For sure you had to get it as clean as possible to have a chance.
I will have to look but I think the last square bulbs I bought that plastic plug was black so no light at all gets out, glad those were not for a Cadillac that had monitors.
It may be getting to the point where someone will have to come up with a likely LED light that will shine in the optic so at least it will work. Won't tell you that your real bulbs are working but at least you will still have an idea what you have or have not selected to be on or off.
I remember the switch on my '59. It would get hot as hell with the halogen bulbs but remain just warm to the touch with the incandescent lights. That thought always carried over to other cars that I would change the bulbs out in. I have no solid numbers as far as amperage draw. But I can really feel the difference in the switch temperatures.
Could it be weak connections? Maybe, not all that sure. I clean them up with contact cleaner and then put them together with dielectric grease. That really helps keep them clean. It sure made a difference in the windshield wipers in my recent '69. They would never park. One of the member did a write up in the S/S about it, I tried it and they worked just like new.
The older sealed beams did have that glass 'tit' that really helped the monitors. The newer ones are mostly just flat. That's why I use the vacuum line. It channels the light to the fiber optic cord. It's not nearly as bright as the older bulbs, but it still works. At night you can see them okay, but during the daytime, it's pretty much useless.
Originally at least on the 70's and 80's cars it seemed like it was a foam rubber sort of material that made up that sleeve so if it was even there the first time you had to change a bulb the next time it likely just was too brittle to re use. I too used hose. I think I was several Cadillacs in before I got one that still had the sleeve in there so I didn't even know it was a thing for ever. I would guess it was mostly there to try and keep that area clean.
Quote from: Finndorado on April 18, 2024, 03:30:10 AMThanks Peter, but I meant the lamps, to replace the sealed beam.
Hi Mika, just look for Bosch or Hella. Sorry for responding so late. Had the Eldorado out for a wonderful trip to Tuscany/Italy
To make it clear again because of other comments: replacing sealed beams lamps by halogen lamps does draw more amps and may result in malfunctioning including fires.
We are talking LED bulbs not lamps. The appearance is like the original build.
Quote from: winger888 on April 30, 2024, 01:37:49 AMHi Mika, just look for Bosch or Hella. Sorry for responding so late. Had the Eldorado out for a wonderful trip to Tuscany/Italy
To make it clear again because of other comments: replacing sealed beams lamps by halogen lamps does draw more amps and may result in malfunctioning including fires.
We are talking LED bulbs not lamps. The appearance is like the original build.
Ok, thanks Peter :)
Mika