56 body swap to a 91 brougham possible?

[Joel]

Does anyone know if it is possible to fit a 1956 coupe de ville 2 door body on a newer cadillac chasse?

Or what would be the best choices of cadillac engines to drop into my 56 cadillac, of which, I don't care to rebuild (frozen).

I have an opportunity to buy a 1991 brougham for engine and tranny but I don't know if it can be fitted.

New member no #'s yet.T

Thanks, Joel 

[Joe Manna]

Hi Joel,first you might want to take measurements of wheelbase and overall length.I know for a fact that a 49-51 merc will fit a 77-78 Olds chassis.I know people who have done it.Also if by chance you buy this 91,if the back bumper is decent(no rust or rot)send me pics,of it.I need one for my 91.Let me know how you make out.Sincerely,Joe

[Joe Manna]

Hi Joel,I just remembered this morning that a 55-56 is approx,4 inches longer than a 91.My buddy has 55's and we checked measurements one sat night for a car length of 50/50 tickets.thats overall length.Joe

[TJ Hopland]

A 91 Brougham would have been a Chev 305 5.0 or MAYBE a 350 5.7 with Throttle body fuel injection. The rest of the RWD cars were 305's but maybe cadillac got the 350's along with the cop caprices.  They were decent for power, reliable, cheap to maintain, and have all the performance parts you could imagine at all price ranges.   The 472/500  (68-76) is a popular engine that there are some 'hot rod' parts for I have seen many older (and newer) cadillacs with these motors swapped into them. THey are fairly easy to find and cheap in rusted out cars.   If you had the money you can now get a RWD version of the Northstar.

[Joel Fazzio]

Hi Joel,first you might want to take measurements of wheelbase and overall length.I know for a fact that a 49-51 merc will fit a 77-78 Olds chassis.I know people who have done it.Also if by chance you buy this 91,if the back bumper is decent(no rust or rot)send me pics,of it.I need one for my 91.Let me know how you make out.Sincerely,Joe

Hey Joe thanks for the info I'll keep you in mind if I get the 91.
Joel

[Joel Fazzio]

A 91 Brougham would have been a Chev 305 5.0 or MAYBE a 350 5.7 with Throttle body fuel injection. The rest of the RWD cars were 305's but maybe cadillac got the 350's along with the cop caprices.  They were decent for power, reliable, cheap to maintain, and have all the performance parts you could imagine at all price ranges.   The 472/500  (68-76) is a popular engine that there are some 'hot rod' parts for I have seen many older (and newer) cadillacs with these motors swapped into them. THey are fairly easy to find and cheap in rusted out cars.   If you had the money you can now get a RWD version of the Northstar.

Hello TJH, Thanks for the input............I wish I could get a 500 but I'm having trouble finding one.
Thanks, Joel

[TJ Hopland]

Keep an eye on ebay and craigs list, sooner or later something should turn up.  In my area the 70's cars (especially 4 doors) start out listed as rare low miles for an insane price but after a few months the price starts dropin till they end up in the $500-1000 range.  Getting the whole car is the way to go so you can steal all the mounts and brackets and such for the swap.  Im not sure what other cars would have the same wheelbase  but there has to be something out there.  The 77-79 (except seville & 79 eldo's) had 425's which were the same on the outside as the 472/500's.  Some 80 & 81's had the 368's which also were based on the same block.  If any of those cars had the right chassis you could start with that till you found a 500.  The 500's only came in Eldos from 70-74 so if you find one of those you will have to find a transmission and maybe a differnt oil pan since the eldos were FWD.  75 & 76 all cads except seville were 500's.  The 68-70 472's were high compression so they had about the same or more power than the later 500's.  Unless you are going for every last horse or braggin rights any 472/500/425 with some minor updates like a cam is going to haul a 6000lb car around with power to spare.   

Is the frame shot on your 56?  Or are you just looking for an easier upgrade in suspension and brakes with a newer chassis?

[Joel Fazzio]

Keep an eye on ebay and craigs list, sooner or later something should turn up.  In my area the 70's cars (especially 4 doors) start out listed as rare low miles for an insane price but after a few months the price starts dropin till they end up in the $500-1000 range.  Getting the whole car is the way to go so you can steal all the mounts and brackets and such for the swap.  Im not sure what other cars would have the same wheelbase  but there has to be something out there.  The 77-79 (except seville & 79 eldo's) had 425's which were the same on the outside as the 472/500's.  Some 80 & 81's had the 368's which also were based on the same block.  If any of those cars had the right chassis you could start with that till you found a 500.  The 500's only came in Eldos from 70-74 so if you find one of those you will have to find a transmission and maybe a differnt oil pan since the eldos were FWD.  75 & 76 all cads except seville were 500's.  The 68-70 472's were high compression so they had about the same or more power than the later 500's.  Unless you are going for every last horse or braggin rights any 472/500/425 with some minor updates like a cam is going to haul a 6000lb car around with power to spare.   

Is the frame shot on your 56?  Or are you just looking for an easier upgrade in suspension and brakes with a newer chassis?

Keep an eye on ebay and craigs list, sooner or later something should turn up.  In my area the 70's cars (especially 4 doors) start out listed as rare low miles for an insane price but after a few months the price starts dropin till they end up in the $500-1000 range.  Getting the whole car is the way to go so you can steal all the mounts and brackets and such for the swap.  Im not sure what other cars would have the same wheelbase  but there has to be something out there.  The 77-79 (except seville & 79 eldo's) had 425's which were the same on the outside as the 472/500's.  Some 80 & 81's had the 368's which also were based on the same block.  If any of those cars had the right chassis you could start with that till you found a 500.  The 500's only came in Eldos from 70-74 so if you find one of those you will have to find a transmission and maybe a differnt oil pan since the eldos were FWD.  75 & 76 all cads except seville were 500's.  The 68-70 472's were high compression so they had about the same or more power than the later 500's.  Unless you are going for every last horse or braggin rights any 472/500/425 with some minor updates like a cam is going to haul a 6000lb car around with power to spare.  

Is the frame shot on your 56?  Or are you just looking for an easier upgrade in suspension and brakes with a newer chassis?

Hey TJH, Actually I have two 56's one is really nice, a black beauty, with a rebuilt 365, a real ice wagon! haha.  The other one, blue, I bought knowing the engine was in trouble, but the boby is really straight.  So after adjusting many priorities recently I started looking locally for a 500 but there aint none  .  I want to shave the blue56 one drop it and give it some new paint.  So that's my story and I sticking to it.......I tell my wife that.  Actually my options are open as my questions indicated.  But to answer your question, no the frame is fine just thinking about as you said an easier upgrade in suspension and brakes with the newer chassis.  I read about the history of the 500 with 1970 having the highist HP but I wasn't aware of the other info you provided So thank you very much that will broden my search.

Let's stay in touch!
Thanks Joel   

[TJ Hopland]

The 70 500 was the most HP from the factory and also the last year for high compression from GM.  Head chamber size didnt change till 74 so the major hard changes were pistons and cam.  If you start talking about serious hard core (and expensive) builds there are some other things about the 70 that could have an advantage and some slight down sides to the 68&9's but for a fairly normal stock rebuild they are all about the same.  The 68&9 need some work to fit a 500 crank.  The 74-5-6 have large chamber heads that want to make lower compressions easily.  The 68-73 heads have smaller chambers that make higher compressions with the more common pistons.

Good Luck with your project(s)!

[TJ Hopland]

Here is a engine dyno sheet from a friends recent basic rebuild using parts layin around the garage on a 500.  He did have slightly larger valves than stock, a custom ground cam,  headers, and an edelbrock intake otherwise is a stock 74-76 motor.  He is going to put it in a Blazer.  That is more than enough torque to smoke some tires if you wanted to.

Have you seen the modified cadillac site?  http://www.modifiedcadillac.org/forum/  From there there are several link to vendors and other sites that deal with the big cadillac motors.

[Joel Fazzio]

Here is a engine dyno sheet from a friends recent basic rebuild using parts layin around the garage on a 500.  He did have slightly larger valves than stock, a custom ground cam,  headers, and an edelbrock intake otherwise is a stock 74-76 motor.  He is going to put it in a Blazer.  That is more than enough torque to smoke some tires if you wanted to.

Have you seen the modified cadillac site?  http://www.modifiedcadillac.org/forum/  From there there are several link to vendors and other sites that deal with the big cadillac motors.

TJH...thanks for the info.............but guess what I found today........I was driving down a street a travel a lot and saw three older cadillacs parked then just before I passed them I saw way down the driveway the tail lights of a 1960.  Needless to say even on a late scheduel and with two co-workers waiting for me, I hooked a Uturn and went knocking on the door.  To make a long story short..John Schanny??? had a 81 deville, 86 his daily driver a 80 something and th 1960 4 door fleetwood.  Anyway, the 81 has 84 or 94K miles and he said he would sell it for $850.  So, my histoy search said this engine has the "modulated displacement" 368 - 6.0L V-8-6-4 engine.  What is your opinion on this one.  Oh I also went to www.modifiedcadillac.org/forum and registered, thanks, I need to get to those others too; seems one could spend a lot of time on-line and it appears there are a lot of generious people out there.

[TJ Hopland]

Optional engines for 81 would have been the olds 5.7 350 diesel, the Buick 4.1 252 V6 4bbl, and I think the 6.0 368 4bbl. The standard engine for 81's (except maybe the seville that came standard with the diesel, but that may have been later) was the 368 8-6-4. The 8-6-4's had fender badges and the valve covers had bumps that stood up as high as the air cleaner.  The throttle body looked like a carb except there was no choke and the 2 injectors stood up above the throat inside the air cleaner.  The 368 was the last cast iron cadillac built motor.  It was externally the same as the 472/500/425.   There were not unusual problems with the motor itself.  The way the multi thing worked was solenoids on the rocker arms that kept the valves shut.  Mechanically the systems worked.  The issue seemed to be the electronics were not quite advanced enough and the car was a bit underpowerd in V8 mode to start with so many people disabled the system.  The proper way to disable it was to remove a wire from the transmission that sensed when it was in 3rd gear. I guess if you un hooked other things it would confuse the computer and screw up other functions. The system would only operate in 3rd so without the wire hooked up it would stay in 'V8 power mode'.   The rest of the system was the DEFI (digital electronic fuel injection) which was pretty much what became the TBI systems that GM used untill the late 80's on the cars and mid 90's on the trucks.   On the Modified site or the Cadillac power fourms there are threads about using that system on a 500.  A 500 would be a fairly easy swap into that car since you have all the proper mounts brackes and stuff.  Issues would be that the 425/368 exhaust manifolds were smaller and thiner to fit between the upper a arms.  I think you have to do some slight mods to things to fit the 500 manifolds.  Transmission was the Thm200-4r which had a less than heay duty reputation but is the only overdrive transmission that was ever made for a direct bolt up to the Buick/Olds/Pontiac and Cadillac motors.  I have been told that now days they can be built to handle a fairly stock 500 as long as you are not out tryin to race the thing.

I think that 81 body style was very close to the 77 and almost identical till 90 except they started calling it a Brougham in 85ish.  I think I read that some of the Caprice (cop) suspension parts fit the cads and I have seen them lowerd.   If you find that you can use that frame for your project I bet you could make some of your money back by selling the body parts off the 81.  There are many people looking for little bits and pieces for that vintage cars.  I remember having a hard time getting body and interior parts when I still had mine.

[Brad Hemingson]

Why not just put a front clip on? A better solution would be to put a clip from a late 70's early 80's Z-28 or Trans Am. You get disc brakes and a close ratio steering box. With a parts car you might also get a disc brake rear end.

[Joel Fazzio]

Why not just put a front clip on? A better solution would be to put a clip from a late 70's early 80's Z-28 or Trans Am. You get disc brakes and a close ratio steering box. With a parts car you might also get a disc brake rear end.

Hello Brad, thanks for the response   I would consider the clip but don't know how to approach it.   I had no idea what you mentioned would fit.  How about 90's cadillac clip

Thanks,
Joel