59 Conv - To Restore or Not Restore

[mb]

Hi,
I am basically just needing people to talk to, or other people's opinions here. This board has always been great to me before, so I thought I would try again.
I own a 59 Conv, and yes, I know how rare it is, and how valuable they are. The car is rusty, and needs everything. I have restored other caddies in the past, and am not a idoit, but don't do major welding like what this car needs. I have found a shop that is willing to replace the floors and rocker panels for me. They have lots of experience doing this type of work on 59 Caddy's.
The problem is this. I look at this as a 5 or 10 year project. This is a major commitment. How do you know when you are ready for such a commitment ? Like allot of people, money is always tight, but I have enough to get started on it.
I know this is a strange and somewhat vague question,  but I don't know wether to start this now or not. Any opinions and personal experiences would be great, Thanks

[Otto Skorzeny]

There's no time like the present.

If you wait another year to begin, what have you got? A car that needs a total restoration.

If you start now, you'll have a car that only needs a partial restoration a year from now.

Looking at it as a long term project is a good idea. Do as much or as little as your budget and time allow.

You could do a lot vworse than a '59 convertible to spend 10 years restoring. That's a car that will continue to hold its value and probably increase compared to other cars.

Start tomorrow morning. Post pictures

[35-709]

The price of labor and parts will probably never be cheaper than right now.  The sooner you start the sooner it will be finished.  The willingness to make a major commitment depends a lot on how you feel about the car, if you are not enthusiastic and excited about what the finished product will be (and you don't sound like you are) maybe you would be better off selling it to someone who would really love it and do it justice.  Best of luck with it whatever you decide.
Geoff N.

[mgrab]

If you look at ebay there are tons of excellent intensions with poor executions that become available due to being an unrealized dream.  What do you want from the car?  To me a car doesn't need to be done quickly or perfectly to be fun.  I've been working on my convertible for some time now....some things drew my attention from the car but I always had it and always used it as my stress release even if I wasn't doing anything with it at the time.  There's nothing like grabbing a beer out of the fridge after work, going out to the garage putting on some period music and just looking/thinking/dreaming.  Restoring a car is a long journey just keep on the path.  A buddy of mine has a 55 Roadmaster Convertible that started about the same time as me.  He perceived it as a race and has become almost disgusted with the restoration due to not working on it for some time, setbacks etc......he doesn't go and look at his car like I look at mine.  I see it becoming an unrealized dream...really think about why you bought it and how its going to bring you the most pleasure.  Best advice I can give...
Good Luck..

[buicksplus]

MB:

Look for a decent 59 Convertible and put your rustbucket up for sale. 

Do you think you could buy a reasonable 59 convertible for 100K?  I think you can, and that will be a lot less than you'll spend cutting and pasting your rusty 59 back together.  I have had some experience with this sort of work.  It's going to take at least 2000 hours, and at $50/hour, that's 100K right there.  And you won't find many restoration shops that work for $50/hour. 

Unless that rustbucket has some personal attachment for you (family car or ), or if you are willing to do the work yourself, it makes more sense to start with a complete and relatively unrusted car.  You can get quite a bit for your car as it sits now, but once you start working on it it will be worth even less.  If your restoration project goes bad, you'll find you've spent lots of money and no way to recover without continuing the project anyway.

Good luck!

Bill   

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

I'm with Bill on this one.

I've been down this road and it took me about 20 years and lots of $$ and time to
finally restore my '55 Eldorado.  Why so long?  The amount of work, money and
time were much more than I originally thought.

However, once you start, you're "stuck" with either finishing it or selling the bucket
of parts for almost nothing.  Give it some long thought before you go down this road.
Also consider what end result you are looking for -- driver, show or

One major mistake I made is that I started out wanting a "driver" and about 1/3 of the
way through restoration decided I wanted a "show" car.  The result was that much of
the work had to be done twice -- and resulting expenses were double in some areas over
what I estimated.

If you're looking for a "driver quality" car that looks nice from 15 feet away and you can
have fun with -- spend the $100K and buy a decent one.  A quality restoration will cost
more than twice that, especially if you have to farm out most of the work to a decent
shop.  If that's your aim -- sell the rustbucket and buy something already "done" to your
liking.

Mike

[Glen]

The real question is where do you get your pleasure in old cars?  If you really like driving the car around and showing it to friends and family as well as people on the street then Bill and Mike’s approach maybe the right one for you.  But if you really like to work with the tools and you get a lot of pleasure out of fixing up the old car then keep it and do exactly that. 

The decision hinges on where you get your kicks. 

Glen 

[Roger Zimmermann]

Interesting title! It remembers mine: "To restore or not?" a sbject I began here on January 27, 2008. There is however one small difference: I wanted to do it. The question was anyway too late to ask as at the moment I wrote the subject as the car was already restored. It took me 10 years, doing most of the job myself. If I had to let perform the replacement of the floor to a body shop, I would have been unable, moneywise, to continue. Without my own work, the car cost me about $ 100k at the present exchange rate.
Roger

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

The question is hard to answer, but if you want to restore it for financial gain, then I think you will be disappointed.

But, if you want to restore it for experience, challenge and eventually to be proud of your work and enjoy the car, then there is no compromise.

Cars can be fun, ow a millstone.

Me, I like to drive mine, and am not really concerned about Stone Chips, as they are inevitable.

Bruce.

[mb]

Thank-You for all the great opinions. Here's a little more info and a responce to some of them. I bought the car because I love 59 Converible's. I owned another one, again a rust bucket, about 10 years ago, but sold it because I got scared off by the restoration and decided it wasn't the right time in my life for such a project. Around the same time I sold a 57 Brougham I had, for about the same reasons. I always regreted selling the conv, even though I knew it was the right thing to do at the time. When I found this one I snapped it right up, greatfull that I found another one. As many of you know finding 59 convertible's is not that easy. That was 3 or 4 years ago. As one person said, I love going out to my garage and just sitting in it. My wife wonders what I am doing out there, but I am just enjoying the car as is, and dreaming about it. I would be performing 90% of the work myself, including the body and paint work, and really only farming out the welding, motor rebuiliding and interior work. In the past when I have resotored cars the 1000 hours block sanding and doing the " dirty " working on the car has been about when my love affair starts to fade. I am not a quiter, and have never given up on a project once started before, but I am also not under any illusion that it is fun or easy work. I really don't have the money to just go out and buy a restored car, and don't want the monthly payments. Even though in the end I will end up with the same amount invested, it's easy to manage when it's a little at a time, and you are able to stop if times get tough. This economy is tough, but it's also the reason I can get the work done now I feel. A couple years ago when I called around no one was very interested in taking on the project, now with the economy I am able to find someone to do the work. That's another reason why I think I should start on it now. In a couple years I may not be able to find someone willing to replace the floors again, or they may want more money. The price I can get the work done now seems to be far less than what people were talking about a few years ago too. In one of those aga old delema's I know if I sell the car as is, I will always be kicking myself saying I should have just gone for it, but I also know about half way though when I've got a ton of money and time in it that I can't get back unless I sell it I will be asking myself why. I love the car, and if I don't do anything with it now I am sure I will just hold onto it and keep dreaming.
Thanks Again,
Michael

[mgrab]

Michael,
From one Mike to another…sounds like you’ve answered your own question.  You are like me.  I take great pleasure in doing the work, saving something that was forgotten by time and can once again be beautiful.  When I started working on cars I was no great welder….you learn, you make mistakes, you grab a fresh cup of coffee on a Saturday morning and try again.  Its all great fun.  But if that’s not you….best you have deep pockets.  When I bought my 56 Olds I was teenager looking for a daily driver.  It was a little old lady car with roughly 75k miles, solid but needing much work completed all myself, it was (and still is a 15 footer).  I put some 35k miles on that car as a daily driver during the mid 90’s.  One day I decided to take my car to a local show, had to be 50 cars in total.  My luck…..national champion 56 Olds was there next to mine.  Completely original 35k miles, gorgeous car, all the guy cared about was where the judges were.  All the guy did was brag….finally walked away from my own car because the guy was so annoying.  He was so impressed that he beat me and the 4 other marginal cars in that class.  What was his goal?  Remember anybody can sign a check.  If you can sign checks and do what most cannot or unwilling then that’s something special.  Like I said earlier…know what your looking for going in…but sounds like you do….
Mike 

[mb]

Yes, I got tired of the show circut along time ago. Last one I went to was about 15 years ago with a 56 Cad I did a ground up resto on. I went to the show to have fun with my family, but found I couldn't sit next to my car because I got tired of people trying to pick it appart. It ended up taking first place anyway. After that I never really cared to go to shows. When you put your heart and soul into something it's hard to hear people say they don't like this or that. I actaully sold that car about a year later, just couldn't take it out without worrying too much about it.  I go to the odd show still, mainly cruise nights, just to take my kids out and have a good time. It really is about driving the cars and enjoying them, not locking them up in a vault.

[Chris Conklin]

Sooooooo.... you'll be twisting a wrench and posting some pictures soon? 

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Michael,

It is a well-known fact that some of us build up nice cars, and start with really bad stuff, but that is the only way we can afford to get it done.

Not all of us have the finances to go out and buy the completed article, but know full well that the car we are working on, will eventually cost that much, if not a bit more, but that is part of the fun of doing it.

Oh, and we learn on the way.   I know, I have.

Bruce.

[Brett Cottel]

Well my 2 cents is that you can always learn along the way.  I guess the estimates of the previous writers of around 100k are reasonably correct but I will not have nearly that into my frame off  restoration....car was in good shape but both floors gone in front...$200 for both side pans and welded them in myself...cannot tell from stock really....welding isn't that tough. do what you can and farm out the rest. If you don't mind wire wheeling parts, cleaning off rust and crap, tar, dirt, oil, etc and then painting it to a beautiful finish...don't do it.  Other options are to have a grunt..ie: helper to do some of the really mundane stuff....college kid etc at $8 or $9 an hour.  Sometimes just having the help with the grunt work makes things a little easier and a lot funner.

Brett

[Vinny]

I bought a 66 DVC in 1999 that was I knew was going to need lower rear quarters.  But after a tear down, It needed a frame, floors and a trunk floor.  So living in Brooklyn, NY and working on Wall street, living through the trade center disaster, marriage, having two boys, caring for one with special needs and the threat of my job being outsourced everyday, I needed a mental enima.  So eight years later, and doing all the metal, engine, upholstery and paint work myself, I am done.  Restoring a car is a labor of love.  If you take each task as a small project (and there will be tons of them), it can be done.  When I got stressed out, I went into the garage and I worked on the car.  Sometimes until 2 in the morning when I had to be at work at 8 the next day.  I bought parts when I had the money and saved a ton of cash by doing research to find out how get get things done.  You are going to make alot of mistakes, but everything  (to an extent) is fixable.  I now cruise times square, madison avenue, the Brooklyn Bridge and all over the city with the top down and my wife and kids in the car.  To me, you can not put a price on that.  What i am trying to say is, why break your back or your bank account to only want to sell the car?  Enjoy it.  i do and plan to pass it on to my boys.  Here is a pic of my car.

[Dr. John T. Welch]

The deepest, darkest and best kept secret among hobbyist/restorers is the fact that most are upside down in their project vehicles.  This cold, clinical and brutal fact is unavoidable  when the value of the owner/hobbyist's time is part of the restoration equation.  We are the true kings of denial. Time is the most valuable and expensive part of any restoration.  Every restoration asks the same fundamental questions: How valuable is your time and how much do you have?   

[mgrab]

Believe it or not I do believe you can put some logic and reason behind restoring a diamond in the rough.  I perceive it as a very low paying second job (probably not much above the rate of indentured servitude).  But nonetheless still a second job.  Let’s take your average guy vs. a guy who works on a car for fun:

Average Guy Summer:                                   One hour per week at the bar      $-40
            One round of golf at local course per week   $-1000
         
Average Guy Fall:                      One hour per week at the bar      $-40
            Fishing trip(fuel, tackle, etc.)      $-80
            Seasonal football tickets      $-5000
Vs

Car guy working in his garage @ $1.25 per hour probably makes about $10 per week yearly……and all costs above are lost….cars are a capital investment.

This is how I perceive it and sell it to my wife, in fact I compared cars to my poor battered portfolio.  Hey I’ve never lost as much on a car as I did in the stock market and I never had any fun with it to boot!

[Don Boshara #594]

My excuse for taking 20 years: When I had the time I didn't have the money and when I had the money I didn't have the time. Still have all the receipts but never added them up.

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Who on earth ever said that financial sanity has ANYTHING to do with our obsession with our cars?
Greg