modifieds and CLC.Club

[62droptop]

i believe Bob wins the grand prize
well said
i know of a  lot of  modified cars,they were resurrected from the should have been dead and made into a car again
it would make no sense to try to restore such an example,but to modify it makes sense(and cents too)
if your modified car has rusty chrome ,heck,paint it to match the car and save yourself$10000 in chrome

i think maybe there could be a poll taken to see what everyone thinks
after all it is OUR  club ,is it not

[Jay Friedman]

I'm a little red-faced to admit it I don't know, but I have a question for Bob Steur.  What is a "dub"? 

(On the other hand, as the late Frank DeCou, a regular contributor to this forum, used to say, the only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask.)

[Glen]

I am not opposed to modifieds in general, and I am not opposed to modifieds in the club, they are already accepted by the club.  I am only opposed to modifieds in this forum.  If the club wants to start a new forum specifically for modifieds that would be great.  Just let us have our forum to discuss the right hose clamp and proper white wall widths. 

Yes  someday the young will inherit this club and forum, in the meantime maybe we can show them a different way.   

[Dan LeBlanc]

Yes  someday the young will inherit this club and forum, in the meantime maybe we can show them a different way.   

Perhaps we can show EACH OTHER new ways.

[Greg Powers]

I must agree with the original purpose of this club, preservation. I know that there are those who enjoy the modified vehicles, but the judging and conversation of this club is directed more to the original Cadillac and LaSalle. I am in that 50's age group and I don't even like the idea of changing orginal color or interior (even to another correct color or interior choice), but that's just my thing. I think that is why there are modified forums, rat-rod forums, and many others in the mix. I respect others for what they have chosen and hope that they will respect me for my choice.

[62droptop]

Yes  someday the young will inherit this club and forum, in the meantime maybe we can show them a different way.   

Glen, on the other side of the coin maybe we can show the people who are opposed to any change a different way
not saying one is better than the other, they both have their place

i think both groups can learn a lot from each other, the first being respect !

[62droptop]

sorry Dan for the repeat thought ,didnt see your post


Greg, i think the judging on a  cars originality is just fine, i think the modified group should be included in the judging too ,something simple like a peoples choice or something similiar as a custom can really only be judged on its quality and creativity

Like Sheryl Crow sang in a song, "a change ,will do us good "

[62droptop]

Jay, a dub from what i understand is a car with huge wheels,and usually lifted to accomodate it, and generally looks pretty silly
i think the wheels themself are the "dub" part

[EAM 17806]

62droptop!  Like Sheryl Crow sang, "A change to the GOOD will do us good" that was her intent. Think about it!  EAM

[62droptop]

my thoughts exactly, change a great car to make it better!

definately  not like the purple monster in my last post

couldnt enjoy my car the way i do without some upgrades i did, brakes being the biggest and most important

[pauldridge]

I agree with you on the brakes issue, Glen,

When I first bought my '40 60 Special, but prior to delivery, a principal at one of the larger vintage Cadillac parts suppliers told me I'd never get the car to stop without installing his $1,200 disk brake system.  So I was expecting the worst when the car arrived.  Was I surprised to find that the brakes were firm, well balanced, and quite capable of locking up all four wheels if need be.  The same is true of my '59 MGA roadster with drums all around.  I'd pit the braking of that little car to just about anything on the road without ABS.

Sure, if you're taking a car to the race track, and need capability for continuous braking without fading, by all means, slap some discs on the car.  But otherwise, in my opinion, all this hype about converting to disc brakes falls in the same category of adding a "cold air" intake filter to increase horsepower.... pure snake oil!

Your example of the brakes not being up to par is one of my pet peeves.  My first car was a 61 Coupe DeVille.  I drove it hard and fast, traffic permitting. 

More than once I locked up all four wheels in a hard braking situation.  ABS aside how much more braking do you need?  Can you lock all four wheels and slide to a straight stop?  If not something is wrong.  Unless you install ABS with the disc brakes you will not get better braking than that. 

The problem lies in the knowledge base among those that repair the cars.  In this forum we pass that information along.   Elsewhere you are told those drum brakes never worked well.  That comes from the really old car like my friend’s 1914 Model T with rear brakes only.  He usually puts it in reverse to get extra braking. 

Yes we do discuss minor mods to help keep these cars on the road.  I do recognize that is sometimes a necessity.  But I still think we need a place to discuss keeping them as original as is possible in these days of dwindling parts and loss of people with the knowledge. 

Those who like the modifies can easily hop over to the modified forums, nothing says they can’t be members of both forums.

[speach]

I love these cars. They were classy cars from the drawing board to the show room, and they should stay that way. Stock or modified. I would love to ask the the original developers what they dreamed the production cars could be, not had to be. I appreciate preservation, and personal taste but is a Cadillac no longer a Cadillac after it has a personal touch from the owner? It is still a Cadillac. Would an original Autorama prototype show car be considered modified because it is not a production model. No. 

[Glen]

Thanks for the support Paul.  In an earlier post Bruce said that drum brakes were useless after a number of rapid applications. 

One of the things people learn while learning to drive back in the day was about brake fade how to prevent it and what to do when it happens.  But in all the years of riding in mom’s 46 Caddy, dad’s 38 Caddy and driving in my 61 I can’t say that I recall any incidents where anybody had to take drastic action because of brake fade.  Mostly it was just paying attention to how you are using the brakes and avoiding fade.     

The only time I had a loss of brakes was in the 68 ELDO with disc brakes.  The brake fluid gets much hotter in brake calipers then it ever did in wheel cylinders.  Thus you need a higher grade of fluid and you must change it occasionally. 

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Let me clear up a bit about Brake Fade and Drum Brakes.

Under "normal" use, Drum Brakes are good, and have been good for years, and will still be good into the future.

But, try driving down a steep mountain road with lots of sharp turns and bends that necessitate slowing down to much slower speeds than on the straights, say 15 Mph, from higher speeds, and with little time for the drums to cool down between applications, then Brake Fade is waiting to happen.

And when it does happen, no amount of pedal pumping or pressure will slow the vehicle down.

Truck Drivers know that their brakes are designed to "panic" stop their fully-laden vehicle from maximum speed to a stop, only once, before they need cooling down.

Heat is the killer in Drum Brakes.

Manual Transmissions in vehicles with Drum Brakes totally assist in the less use of the brakes, but the Automatic transmission equipped vehicle is especially hard on brakes.

But, a lot of operations depend on the driver, and the way the vehicle is driven, and us "older" drivers that began with Manual Transmissions and graduated to Automatics realise that the driving is different.

The trouble these days is if you are driving an older vehicle, and you leave sufficient stopping distance, for your vehicle in the traffic, there will always be the idiot that doesn't understand why you left a gap, and will slot his vehicle into that space.   When they have to stop suddenly because of the traffic ahead, then they sometimes find out the hard way just why you left that space in the first place.

Bruce.

PS.   My '60 CDV had Drums, but my Hot Rods have Disks.

[62droptop]

i dont understand all the negativity regarding making ones car safer

i will gladly let any of you who want to test drive my car to test  my brakes ,then you can make an informed decision to  see what i am talking about,ignorance is bliss
my caddy stops faster and harder than my wifes newer dodge grand  caravan,and it had the biggest factory brakes.

i guess most of you are so against any modifications or deviations from original ,you are not open to the concept that something modified may actually be better.i think i mentioned before, unless you actually remove a wheel of crawl under the front and look at inner side of wheel,you cannot tell the car has been modified,very stealth upgrade
i did not say the drum brakes did not work well, in fact they work better at low speeds than the discs, a little more sensitive .
and when i am putting around the city,sometimes i wish i still had the responsiveness of the drums,buy a quick freeway trip soon changes my mind
i do not have to plan my stops ahead or leave extra distance like in the past
if you do not drive the car hard or in congested traffic freeways then by all means the stock brakes are plenty fine
i treat my car just as i would treat a brand new cadillac ,i drive it in all types of situations. i can stop from 80 mph hard  ,straight and fast, repeatedly if need be.
i am from a way of thinking that you can never have enough brakes

i run my car with the traffic at  high speeds on the highways, my drum brakes were in perfect condition,adjusted  properly etc, after a couple hard stops ,i had serious brake fade ,pretty much non existant brakes
i also occasionally pull my 22 foot boat also with my car, i need to stop!

my first car was an austin mini, 7'' drums all around.
being a kid i wanted to make it go faster,so i did ,much faster ,but then i couldnt stop the beast,7'' drums from 70 mph = good luck stopping anytime soon
solution was to fit disc brakes,problem solved
sure the drums were adequate if i drove like a little old man never over 45mph
still have a mini but it has huge disc brakes on the front now ,and i feel quite confident driving it at speed,i know it will stop


i do not drive my car easy or slow,i guess that make all the difference in the world regarding brakes.
i do not treat my car like a 50 yr old car.

driving your first car hard,when traffic permitted was a different story years ago
not as much traffic and everyones car stopped pretty much the same,perhaps the caddy stopped a little better than most because it has huge brakes
Glen are you telling me you could lock up all 4 wheels at 80mph?
i can if i want too,but that is not going to stop me any faster than drums will it ?

i realize that for  the brakes work at their maximum , the tire has to be able to grip the road,a locked up tire is no good.
i have had a few of my cars on the track for track day and realize the importance of brakes.
if any of you have ever pushed your car way beyond its limits you would completely understand what i am talking about here
speach,well said

Iis a Cadillac no longer a Cadillac after it has a personal touch from the owner? It is still a Cadillac. . 

i

l.  In an earlier post Bruce said that drum brakes were useless after a number of rapid applications. 

One of the things people learn while learning to drive back in the day was about brake fade how to prevent it and what to do when it happens.   I can’t say that I recall any incidents where anybody had to take drastic action because of brake fade.  Mostly it was just paying attention to how you are using the brakes and avoiding fade.

Glen, this is what i have been trying to tell you, i DONT want to have to drive my car like an old car!!!!!
i do not have to worry about that any more. 

if drum brakes were the big rage,why does almost every manufacturer have most cars with 4 wheel disc brakes, it is not just hype, its a fact
the same goes with an old muscle car, are you telling me you would rather have drum brakes on your 68 hemi charger that you drive quite spiritedly blasting around the back roads?
 

[62droptop]

Thank you Bruce for understanding where i am coming from

i am glad someone else understands the reasoning behind upgrading ones brakes for SAFETY

i drive a heavy vehicle daily for work, i leave lots of room for stopping but on a daily basis people take advantage of that and really remove my margin of safety more often than i like

when everyone was worried about brake fade,everyone drove the SAME way, not today though, to get a modern car to brake fade,you will have to try mighty hard
,not just making a slightly harder stop than normal a couple times in a row

others are right ,it is about education and understanding your cars limits, but try educating the knucklehead driving beside you that just removed your stopping envelope by cuting in front of you and you now run into the back of him

i do not want to be that guy running into the moron who doesnt understand old school technology

[Glen]

Bruce, the automatic transmission has a “drive right” which provides more engine braking than drive left the normal driving range.  If you get into a situation you think might over heat the brakes you shift to drive right.  But in my experience that was a rare situation.   

i dont understand all the negativity regarding making ones car safer

Lee, the issue is that the modifications may not be safer as advertised. 

Glen, this is what i have been trying to tell you, i DONT want to have to drive my car like an old car!!!!!

But that is the whole purpose of driving an old car.  Why would I want to drive a car that is a Honda in disguise?   

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

G'day Glen,

When you travel around Tasmania, there are more hills and bends than a tightly wrinkled up piece of A4, so good brakes are a must, but I drive my Cadillacs accordingly.

I do know about the downshifting an Auto, and even that trying to pull up 2 1/4 Ton of iron behind a car with Disk Brakes and nowhere to overtake makes for some interesting happenings.   Thank God that these Cadillacs have good strong Bumper Bars, oh, and Seat Belts.

Bruce.

PS.   BUT, I don't hold it against anyone wanting to upgrade their stopping and handling, but, the first item I recommend is a Dual Circuit Master Cylinder, with a Vacuum Power Booster.

PPS.   I have even had to use Reverse Gear and Throttle control to complete a decent whilst towing a heave trailer as there was nowhere to turn around or get off the road, but that is another story.

[62droptop]

But that is the whole purpose of driving an old car.  Why would I want to drive a car that is a Honda in disguise?   

Glen i love my old car because of the incredible styling and looks, not because it drives like an old car,does not seem like a good argument to buy an old car

seller"hey  mister,you want to buy  this old car" , why you ask, he replies "because it drives like an old car"

i think that is why ,in the near future ,most people will have trouble finding new owners of their bone stock oldies, because no will want a car to drive that they  have sacrifice safety, handling,braking etc to drive
they will want a classic look that is somewhat modern in the mechanics department
that is why i think resto mods are so popular right now, incredible classic looks, modern reliability and driveability= best of both worlds

my wife is thinking she would like a 66 mustang, she will probably get one in the next couple years, it will end up with a new front suspension designed to make the car handle better,big disc brakes and a fuel injected v6 or v8 engine with aftermarked a/c ,why, to make it a awesome looking daily driver that can do almost  everything as well as its modern counterpart can
it is that or drive a boring new car,and that wont happen

there is great satisfaction in talking an old machine and resurrecting it into something way better than it ever thought it could be

would you not like to be able to use your classic more because it had less limitations???

[Glen]

would you not like to be able to use your classic more because it had less limitations???

So far you have not convinced me there are any limitations.