1970s Goodbye & thanks.

[MultipleCaddies]

Just a couple of comments:
I thought that forum members who joined before "May" were grandfathered... not certain where I read that but I thought it was May of a prior year which would prevent new spammers from causing an issue.

After seeing Paul's topic I noticed "Reminder to CLC members, please make sure that your CLC number is stored in the relevant field in your forum profile. This is important for the upcoming change to the Forums access, More information can be found at the..." But I don't see a "relevant field" in the forum profile. I also went to the general discussion topic and I don't see it there.

I joined the CLC when there was a reduced cost option around the pandemic but other than posting here and contributing to the Self-Starter I don't use the CLC (but I do appreciate it of course). Anyway I have no idea what my CLC number is. After replying I will check to see if it's listed near my name in the membership search.

As someone else mentioned I too found the CLC Forum through a Google search. I contributed and read for years before joining. As that other member mentioned, had it cost something to join the forum, I would have looked elsewhere. I would have never found the forum and I would have never joined the CLC. I think the point of the forum dwindling is very likely going down the path of paid forum membership.

CT (ChevyTalk) is free but you cannot post photos without a basic paid membership. CadillacForums is very good, no membership fees, easier to post photos and is generally overall easier to use.

To me the CLC Forum needs to find another solution. I don't mind paying the membership fee but I will mind paying for something which is a gutted shell of what it was... That's what I see happening. There are already very few topics which fall in the age range I work on most and going in this direction will accelerate the decline.

Scott

Another man who values his nightly McDonald's cheeseburger more than the $0.068 cents a day it takes to feed this starving child in Ethi... whoops, sorry, wrong forum!

[79 Eldorado]

J Doyle,
I said I have no problem paying the membership. My real concern is that the forum will decline unless there's another solution. I won't pay for something until I have a measure of the value. If you restrict potential members before giving them a free sample the forum and the CLC is the loser in the end.

I did search to see if the member list had my CLC number. It does not but here's what I noticed. I searched on part of my name and I got a page of "hits". Take a look at the list. There are 2 CLC members with a total of 6 posts.

Scott

[MultipleCaddies]

J Doyle,
I said I have no problem paying the membership. My real concern is that the forum will decline unless there's another solution. I won't pay for something until I have a measure of the value. If you restrict potential members before giving them a free sample the forum and the CLC is the loser in the end.

I did search to see if the member list had my CLC number. It does not but here's what I noticed. I searched on part of my name and I got a page of "hits". Take a look at the list. There are 2 CLC members with a total of 6 posts.

Scott

I'm in 100% agreement with you. I assumed you had read my posts above on the subject. I was making a joke about the commenter above who sounds more like someone trying to guilt-shame people into giving money for starving kids in Africa than someone trying to get people to join the club.

[TJ Hopland]

Scott, the place you want to enter your number when you find it is on the same page where you can change your password, there is a specific field for CLC number.  My understanding is its this field that will be the initial sort for the lock out process.  If your number is there they say nothing will change.  If your number isn't listed in that field its going to be some sort of manual process to get those people back in which could take some time. 

Also note that if you change any data on that page like entering your CLC number you have to enter your password so make sure you have that handy too.  I know there are likely many of us that checked the stay logged in box so may not have or password handy. 

[Carfreak]

Did you miss the part where I said I live 2,500 miles away and attending is simply not in the cards? ALL "benefits" related to it are not relevant to me as a result.

I don't recall since it really wasn't pertinent, did you mention living in Calf? 

There are two Calf CLC Regions (NorCal, SoCal) which IF you were a member, you could join those groups to enjoy their camaraderie, shows, meetings, tours, events, etc etc. 

National events move around to different areas of the country; if the GN is in one area, they try to have a Driving Tour in a different area. And they attempt to move GNs around also - they have been held in Albuquerque (2023), Vegas and San Marcos Texas - not always on the east coast. Also Chicagoland and Louisville were more centrally located. 

[Vince Taliano #13852]

I don't recall since it really wasn't pertinent, did you mention living in Calf? 

There are two Calf CLC Regions (NorCal, SoCal) which IF you were a member, you could join those groups to enjoy their camaraderie, shows, meetings, tours, events, etc etc. 

National events move around to different areas of the country; if the GN is in one area, they try to have a Driving Tour in a different area. And they attempt to move GNs around also - they have been held in Albuquerque (2023), Vegas and San Marcos Texas - not always on the east coast. Also Chicagoland and Louisville were more centrally located. 

Hi Sue,

Now there is a third region in California, the Palm Springs Region.  In addition, the CLC is exploring West Coast locations for the 2027 Grand National to stay in sync with the "windshield wiper" national event philosphy.  Also, Marc Tuwiner has a Cadillac parts yard in the Reno area (as listed on the forum in the past).  So, the future looks bright for members on that side of the country.  There is plenty of CLC-related camaraderie to be had.

Vince

 

[Jim Miller]

I'm just curious.  Can anyone tell me why the people who are leaving the forum are so against the idea of joining the CLC.  It's not expensive; certainly not compared to the cost of restoring and maintaining a vintage car. 

I've been a paying member since 2017. I also follow several Cadillac sites that dot facebook. My experience so far is that information and responses to questions have been far more solid on our forum. Perhaps it's because the CLC has been around a long time and the members I've communicated with are bringing more experience to the table. Ive not always received or seen the level of experience on other sites. For me the membership is a resource I'm willing to pay for. I've saved more than the cost of my membership by avoiding costly mistakes thanks to the advice I've received.

[Lexi]

Jim that has also been my experience. The CLC Club is the big league. Clay/Lexi

[79 Eldorado]

Scott, the place you want to enter your number when you find it is on the same page where you can change your password, there is a specific field for CLC number....

Thanks TJ, I was in that section and just missed it. I think because I was looking for an actual number instead of a blank box because I knew I had joined.

I did find my confirmation email. It was dated the 28th of December 2021 but I cannot find a number anywhere. I do recall spending quite a bit of time entering all of the details for my vehicles but perhaps they encouraged that before confirmation? I have no idea. I can see in the confirmation email the color of the hot link has already changed which seems to indicate I followed it when it arrived.

If something simply didn't "take" that would explain why I've never received any communication encouraging me to extend the membership. I just assumed that I was still under the extended period but I didn't realize it's been 2yrs and 4 months. I joined only because I wanted to support the forum by being paid but I have serious concerns regarding the policy and longevity of the forum. I gave the CT forum example. That site, for 1965-1970 large cars, was considered the authority for information and now Facebook type groups have really diluted the forum activity (and other forums from what I understand). There's so much existing information on that site that, if you have the patience to search existing content, you can likely find the answer to almost any question you have. My point being forums are already on life support and this policy is just helping to pull the plug regardless of what I do. I do encourage ebay buyers to join the forum if they aren't already members.

People asked if Paul was from California. I'm pretty certain that's Paul from the UK.

Scott

[gkhashem]

I got a question for Mr. Doyle.

How many car clubs do you belong to, and could you name them for us.

I belong to the CLC, Buick, Oldsmobile Club of America, Antique Oldsmobile Club, AACA and the Pontiac Oakland GMC club. 

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Did you miss the part where I said I live 2,500 miles away and attending is simply not in the cards? ALL "benefits" related to it are not relevant to me as a result.

Looks like you didn't even read what I posted.  I am 11,000 miles away, down at the bottom of the Southern Hemisphere.  The only reason I have not driven over to Western Australia for the Australian CLC Rally is due to health reasons. (2,600 miles, plus an all night ferry trip)

Bruce.

[Carfreak]

I got a question for Mr. Doyle.

How many car clubs do you belong to, and could you name them for us.

I belong to the CLC, Buick, Oldsmobile Club of America, Antique Oldsmobile Club, AACA and the Pontiac Oakland GMC club. 

Me too plus MVPA and SPAAMFAA and a few local regions/chapters of the above clubs.

[dogbergs]

I've not been here that long, but since -21.
I wanted to become a paying member because I used the restoration forum as documentation to myself, with a posibility of others to correct me and debate, that last part it has not been too much of though. This is like Google supreme with extra everything talking Caddy's, I mean you have Tasmania, Florida, Switzerland, North Carolina and Minneapolis connected, all here for the love of Cadillacs
The CLC member ship change will need a year or so to show how forums took the hit we're now facing, think they will be fine.

Thanks / Johan

[MultipleCaddies]

I got a question for Mr. Doyle.

How many car clubs do you belong to, and could you name them for us.

I belong to the CLC, Buick, Oldsmobile Club of America, Antique Oldsmobile Club, AACA and the Pontiac Oakland GMC club. 

What is sadly lost on the old guard is that cliquey clubs like this are on their way to becoming a thing of the past. There is a reason why gatherings like Cars and Coffee are rapidly gaining in popularity all over the place, while these kinds of old car clubs are on the decline. An awful lot of people simply cannot understand or accept that, even when it stares them straight in the face. But more importantly, they don't understand WHY.. I'm sitting here trying to explain it to you, and instead of debating the points, so many resort to all manner of ways to either change the subject or to try to turn it around on the person who tries to point it out to them. Attacking the messenger because you simply can't debate on the merits.

It doesn't matter what answer I give you. Whether I tell you I'm a member of zero clubs or 37, your opinion of me and my credibility is already set in stone. I'm an outsider, not part of your clique, so my opinion is entirely irrelevant to you. That's why the old guard is in decline, and a new generation of car shows and enthusiast gatherings is rapidly growing. Folks that are truly in it for the love of the cars - It's not about who you know or who you hobnob with. But for so many of you it is. It's another way to show off for the clique. I've been going to big car shows since I was a teenager, I've been working on cars my entire adult life, I run a restoration shop where literally all I do is build, restore and maintain classic cars for people who actually drive them. Dare I say, I'm far more deeply immersed in the classic car world than most of the people here. I've contributed so much in terms of keeping so many of these cars on the road, putting them back on the road after someone cast them aside, and helping a lot of people have a lot of fun with their beloved old cars. I have introduced numerous people to the hobby, young and old, and brought many people to the many, many car shows I've gone to over the years. I've spent huge amounts of my own money on my own cars, and incalculable amounts spent by others for me to fix and restore their old cars. So excuse me if I COMPLETELY dismiss the absurd notion that spending money on joining a car club is somehow the gold standard upon which someone's credibility or acceptance in this world should be judged. Dare I say, I've contributed MUCH more to the hobby as a whole than most of you here.

So you want to know and understand why I have no interest in joining your cliquey club? Because you aren't in it for the cars nearly as much as I am, you're in it for the popularity contest. For the who you know and who you hobnob with factor. It's the same on almost all clubs like this. A handful of the most popular members of the clique circle around the outsider in an attempt to wear him down and drive him away, so you can preserve your echo chamber. You will succeed in your efforts with most people. They will seek out advice and info elsewhere, because most people do not have enough fight or interest in them to take on these battles. Well I do, which is why several of you have honed in your efforts to drive me out. Because I represent a real challenge to the status quo. Like I said, the model is dying off. We all know it, but apparently only some of us know why. The old guard hasn't figured it out yet and likely never will. They will simply watch their numbers decline and wonder why, despite people like me explaining it to you.

The people who need to hear this the most are the ones pushing back the hardest on me. You simply cannot handle someone with REAL passion and conviction who disagrees with you. Well you can turn away from it, but you can't make it go away. What's the next step? Banning me entirely? Talk about proving my point entirely in front of the entire audience. You've got a number of leaders of the old guard who've stepped up and locked swords. But there's plenty of others quietly watching this and seeing what's going on here and not liking it any more than I do. Don't think this will affect your membership in the end? Boy, are you in for some serious disappointment. Just don't say I didn't tell you exactly what will happen.

[MultipleCaddies]

Thanks TJ, I was in that section and just missed it. I think because I was looking for an actual number instead of a blank box because I knew I had joined.

I did find my confirmation email. It was dated the 28th of December 2021 but I cannot find a number anywhere. I do recall spending quite a bit of time entering all of the details for my vehicles but perhaps they encouraged that before confirmation? I have no idea. I can see in the confirmation email the color of the hot link has already changed which seems to indicate I followed it when it arrived.

If something simply didn't "take" that would explain why I've never received any communication encouraging me to extend the membership. I just assumed that I was still under the extended period but I didn't realize it's been 2yrs and 4 months. I joined only because I wanted to support the forum by being paid but I have serious concerns regarding the policy and longevity of the forum. I gave the CT forum example. That site, for 1965-1970 large cars, was considered the authority for information and now Facebook type groups have really diluted the forum activity (and other forums from what I understand). There's so much existing information on that site that, if you have the patience to search existing content, you can likely find the answer to almost any question you have. My point being forums are already on life support and this policy is just helping to pull the plug regardless of what I do. I do encourage ebay buyers to join the forum if they aren't already members.

People asked if Paul was from California. I'm pretty certain that's Paul from the UK.

Scott

Your point about forums like this being on life support already is as entirely lost on some of these folks as it was to many of the first class passengers on the Titanic. Sheltered from reality most of their lives, unwilling to even consider the reality that the ship is in fact sinking, until it was utterly forced upon them as the ship settled into the water. But by the time they realized it, it was of course far too late to have any hope of stopping it. Even those who at first were unwilling to accept it were forced to abandon ship. It is a perfect analogy to what is happening here. Except in the case of this forum, they aren't even attempting to steer away from the iceberg, they're accelerating towards it with foolish arrogance - and after smashing into it, they declare in unison "this is fine".

[Big Fins]

Another thread with a never ending circle of BS

Bruce, you're slipping. Normally you would lock threads like this after the first few posts.

In a way, nice to see you allowing others to get their opinions out.

[Carfreak]

About a dozen years ago, voters in our state decided they wanted nothing more to do with allowing people to smoke in public places including bars, bowling alleys, social halls & restaurants.

You would've thought the world was coming to an end the comments so many people posted and of course, the TV news stories. They were insistent, it was impossible to consume an alcoholic drink without a cigarette in their hand.

For years earlier, whenever you went to a restaurant and were asked if you wanted to sit in the smoking or non-smoking section, the smoking section would be mostly empty while the non-smoking section was full. You had a choice; you wait for a seat to open up in the non-smoking section or take your chances and be seated in the smoking section where at any moment they could also seat someone next to you that their cigarette smoke would blow over into your face and as a non-smoker it could ruin the enjoyment of your meal.

Or perhaps you would visit states like Florida that already had the law in place not allowing smoking in restaurants. What a joy to know that you would be able to sit anywhere in a restaurant and not have to consume someone else's lousy cigarette smoke.

Finally, the day came, the law went into effect, and no more smoking in public places. Many of the facilities took the opportunity to wash their ceilings, maybe their walls. Clean the windows, and start fresh, smelling fresh, and not like a dirty ashtray.

As far as I know, none of those places went out of business, because you could no longer smoke your cigarette and drink your beer inside. People just changed and adapted. With the vast majority of people these days being non smokers,  it was a good change and we have never looked back. Well, maybe to laugh and recalled that at some point, you could smoke cigarettes even on an airplane.

Yep, there were a lot of unhappy people, but the vast majority were very satisfied with the new rules that were put in place.

[Bryan J Moran]

Time to shut this one down too. Like Laurie, we will never come to a mutual understanding with this anonymous poster. Except Laurie was a member and we knew her name.

He (or she) is painting with a broad brush about a club made up of many individuals.  When that happens it is time to shut a thread down. I've never met this guy, using an anonymous name, yet he has put me and all of us in the same corrupt (to him) group. 

It's no longer a constructive post.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Another thread with a never ending circle of BS

Bruce, you're slipping. Normally you would lock threads like this after the first few posts.

In a way, nice to see you allowing others to get their opinions out.

G'day John,

Not slipping, just letting him waste his valuable time and resources on the computer.

But, as it looks like, in a few days he will be history, so I suppose we are leaving him to dig himself into a hole.

But, having said that, at least it is getting out to other Non-Members that the Club is worthwhile joining.

Some of his posts have been locked by other Moderators.

Bruce.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

This may as well serve as a tutorial on how to write a "Dear John" letter in just 18 posts/57,000 words or less. At the ripe old age of 27 we know everything what works best in every situation for every single organization, non-sequitur analogies notwithstanding.  It's a mistake to presume that one template fits all. An argument that essentially boils down why we don't need lobster for basic daily sustenance any more than a Cadillac or classic car for transportation.

Speaking for myself, the close friendships I've made all over the country as a direct result of the CLC couldn't be measured in dollars and cents, to say nothing of the quality of expertise, support and appreciation of our cars unsurpassed on any other major platform or venue. It's pretty simple: If you want/appreciate premium service, you pay for it; if not, don't.