This story actually begins in 1985. I had just graduated from Annapolis and married a lovely, fiery lass from Baltimore. We were living in DC while I finished graduate school and she finished her BA. A neighbor had a Persian Lime '73 Eldo convertible with a white interior that my new bride fell in love with. We bought it and she proceeded to drive it everywhere, including a move to Pensacola for flight training. Alas, life happened and, with my first daughter on her way, we sold the Eldo on for something more "practical." That first Eldo was also a Northeast car and was starting to suffer from rot. Ever since that day, every time I get her a car (and she has some really nice cars), all I hear is "I miss my beautiful, green Eldorado!"
Fast forward 34 years. I've been on the lookout for a rust-free '73 or '74 for some time and one shows up in TN. It's this car:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHY7ZhIOXyU
The shop that had it in 2016 basically did a cheapo cosmetic "restoration" (cheap paint job, re-dyed interior) and then sold it on for max profit without addressing any of the deferred maintenance. The elderly gentleman that bought it tried to daily drive it but ultimately traded it into a Dodge dealer. It was then auctioned to a used car dealer in East Tennessee from whom I bought. The last couple of years were rough on the car, the cheap paint cracked and faded, the dash and steering wheel cracked, and the deferred maintenance remained deferred.
But the car has good bones. The metal condition on this car is amazing. The dealer that I bought it from said that it spent most of its life in AZ and that the indicated mileage (a bit over 80K) is original. Having spent some time under the car, I believe that.
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Picking up the car was an adventure. I "lied" to my wife and told her I needed to visit a customer in TN over the weekend to prepare for an upcoming aviation trade show. Parts of that were true . . . I did go to TN and I do have a customer there. But my objective was to travel to TN to determine if the car had rust and whether I thought it could make it to TX under its own power. I left from work and flew out on frequent flier miles. Upon inspecting the car, it looked really good underneath. So my attention turned to road-worthiness. I determined that basic safety items were good (newish tires, relatively smooth engine, smooth shifting transmission, fair stopping, good wipers, good lights, good heat). As for the rest, some things worked, but a lot of the cool "Caddy" items did not. I felt the car could make the 1000 mile drive to TX (knock on wood), so off I went!
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My only drama was the AC compressor seizing about an hour West of Knoxville. I should have pulled the clutch connector -- I didn't realize the clutch was engaged. That also knocked out the power steering, so I manhandled the car the rest of the way. Not too bad on the interstate, but parking was rough!
Speaking of interstates, I had forgotten how these cars drive. That 501 just pulls the car up hills effortlessly. It's like driving a locomotive -- set the torque and chill out. The ride was also really nice despite the original, completely worn shock absorbers.
I made it back to TX on Sunday afternoon, hid the car in the hangar at work and drove home like nothing happened. I was waiting for my wife's birthday. Here's the birthday girl! The smile says it all:
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It's now home with the goal of making it 100% right!
I had the AC compressor seize up and throw the power steering belt in the middle of a sweeping expressway ramp when I was in my old '74 Coupe deVille when I was a teen. That was a great experience... The car look awesome! I would love a Persian Lime '74; that is one of my favorite colors.
Quote from: MaR on March 11, 2019, 06:56:00 PMI had the AC compressor seize up and throw the power steering belt in the middle of a sweeping expressway ramp when I was in my old '74 Coupe deVille when I was a teen.
Yikes!
Your thread inspired me, so it was time to create the log for this restore.
I can't LOVE this story enough, nice job Navy, BZ.
\m/
Laurie
Quote from: Cape Cod Fleetwood on March 12, 2019, 11:14:27 AM
I can't LOVE this story enough, nice job Navy, BZ.
Bravo Zulu to you too! :)
First order of business was to start tackling all the deferred maintenance and, in the process of working on the car, discover all its secrets. Rock Auto has been my main source for parts. Thus far:
1. Bought the OEM Service Manual (absolutely mandatory!!!).
2. Flush cooling system and replace radiator/heater hoses, radiator cap and thermostat.
3. Flush power steering system, replace power steering hoses and fix leaking flare connection at power steering box. Had to use a copper gasket (Parker 2GF-6) to get that sealed . . . must have been leaking for a long, long time.
4. Replace accessory drive belts.
5. Transmission fluid and filter change.
6. Differential fluid change.
7. Brake fluid flush.
8. New front brake pads. Used the AC Delco Professional semi-metallics. They feel nice.
9. Rear brake pads were OK, but found one of the springs installed backwards which was preventing the self-adjuster from rotating. This fixed an apparent "low" pedal.
10. Repacked rear wheel bearings. They had the original factory grease and the felt-type grease seals that were in use back in the 1970s!
11. Suspension rubber and ball joints checked out good with the exception of the front sway bar link bushings. Replaced those. Motor mount rubber looked good too.
12. Replaced the rear spring isolators and aligned the rear springs as shown in the manual.
13. Checked suspension height.
14. Cleaned, painted and balanced the wheels.
15. Replaced the shock absorbers and steering damper. Used KYB Gas-A-Just on the front and Monroe gas shocks on the rear. Ride is nice and controlled now.
16. Checked the ALS system and found a bad compressor and leaking lines. The level sensor on the rear axle was good. Replaced the lines, but still working on the compressor. The diaghragm is good so I should be able to bring it back to life. Temporarily installed a Schrader valve to keep some pressure in the new rear shocks.
Still have a ways to go . . . .
A post isn't complete without a picture. Here are the original Superlift shocks:
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BZ to you Navy-ator! A great story that I could see my Dad doing (former S2 driver). Car looks awesome and I’m sure she deserves it after supporting a Navy spouse! Here’s a pic of my parents driving off on their wedding day, Corvair got a rotisserie resto in ‘09 and still in the garage, a one-owner Ensign-mobile. On a side not now my oldest wants to be a plebe in 2020. Enough about me best of luck with the car and many years of her enjoyment and happiness with it! Funny how aviators love our cars so much.
Quote from: hornetball on March 13, 2019, 06:30:08 PM
Bravo Zulu to you too! :)
First order of business was to start tackling all the deferred maintenance and, in the process of working on the car, discover all its secrets. Rock Auto has been my main source for parts. Thus far
1. Bought the OEM Service Manual (absolutely mandatory!!!).
You may want to add this to the NATOPS...
https://www.ebay.com/i/141988343247?chn=ps
Outstanding job of dealing with what makes it safe and driveable first.
\m/
Laurie (ABH2/NAC/AW)
Quote from: Skwerly62 on March 14, 2019, 10:23:43 AMHere’s a pic of my parents driving off on their wedding day, Corvair got a rotisserie resto in ‘09 and still in the garage, a one-owner Ensign-mobile. On a side not now my oldest wants to be a plebe in 2020.
What a great picture. I still have my Ensignmobile too. A 1966 big-block Sport Fury convertible (I've always loved older cars). I remember when a group of us drove from Meridian, MS down to Pensacola for our first carrier quals (Lexington). The other butterbars had new Mustangs, Camaros and assorted Japanese or German cars. That Sport Fury absolutely smoked them all on the drive down. They couldn't believe how fast it was. Fortunately, I don't drive like that on public roads anymore.
I'd go to Annapolis again in a heartbeat. Great experience (although, in truth, no one "wants" to be a plebe -- but you make the best friends of your life during that long year).
Quote from: Cape Cod Fleetwood on March 14, 2019, 11:24:20 AM
You may want to add this to the NATOPS...
https://www.ebay.com/i/141988343247?chn=ps
Outstanding job of dealing with what makes it safe and driveable first.
I got the CD. It had the 1974 service manual and body manual along with 1975 supplements. Great deal. Amazing how detailed the system descriptions are in those manuals.
It's a pleasure working on the car. I built myself a really nice garage last year.
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When I got the car, the engine ran smoothly but it had valvetrain noise and a distinct tick which was worse at idle when cold. The engine oil also got dark pretty quickly, although it barely used any oil on the 1000 mile drive from TN to TX. Plus, members here alerted me that these cars came from the factory with nylon camshaft gear teeth. So . . . into the engine I went.
Pulling the valve covers was depressing. Both sides had a mountain of sludge built up in the center over the exhaust crossover. I should have taken a picture. 45 years of dino oil, short trips and poor PCV system maintenance had taken their toll. When I pulled the rockers, there was obvious damage to many of the rockers and valve stem tips. The pushrods were straight, open and had good ends though. So there had not been a lack of lubrication.
I pulled the heads to get them rebuilt. Fortunately, as I got deeper into the engine the story got a lot better. The lifter valley was pretty clean and the pistons and cylinder walls looked really good. I think this may be typical of these Caddy engines when they are lightly used.
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I also found the source of the constant tick . . . cracked driver's side exhaust manifold. Fortunately, Rock Auto had a new replacement. Only the driver's side was available, and I'll bet that's the one that frequently cracks due to the exhaust manifold heat stove.
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Moving on to the front of the engine, sure enough, the timing set is junk. Chain is loose and camshaft gear is full of cracks. Looks like I dodged a bullett here. Replacements on order.
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That's not a 'garage', its a hangar.
\m/
Laurie
Quote from: Cape Cod Fleetwood on March 15, 2019, 01:22:07 PM
That's not a 'garage', its a hangar.
Everything's bigger in TX. 8)
Quote from: Cape Cod Fleetwood on March 15, 2019, 01:22:07 PM
That's not a 'garage', its a hangar.
\m/
Laurie
O-M-G.......What she said.
Quote from: DaddyDeVille on March 19, 2019, 11:57:12 PM
O-M-G.......What she said.
I have an understanding wife.
I didn't even notice the garage pic until Laurie mentioned it...
Nice setup. Nice car...glad you found one that makes your wife happy!
More valvetrain damage.
Valve stem tip:
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Valve stem:
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Rocker arms:
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Closeups of camshaft gear:
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Pulled the lifters and found some strange wear:
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The lifter wear tipped me off that the camshaft probably had damage. Turns out, the camshaft had 3 worn lobes. Good lobes:
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Worn lobe:
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Mic measurements:
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Found one of the pushrods was completely plugged -- no oil flow. I'll bet the others had reduced flow. I ordered a new cam directly from CompCams (got the 252H). Buying directly from their website saved ~$70 over ordering from Summit or Jegs! Got a new set of pushrods from RockAuto. And a set of T-posts and rockers from CadCompany in Albuquerque. Basically, the valvetrain on this car, starting from the crank gear, will be all new.
Got parts back from the machine shop. It's like Christmas. Started painting stuff dark blue:
Front cover/water pump:
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Intake:
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Heads:
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Starting to come together. It's fun manhandling Caddy 500 heads:
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At a stopping point for now as I wait for the camshaft and pushrods to come in.
You are about a week or two ahead of me on my engine refresh. I just pulled the first head today on mine. Fortunately, I have not found any internal damage.
Quote from: MaR on March 31, 2019, 09:00:40 PMYou are about a week or two ahead of me on my engine refresh. I just pulled the first head today on mine. Fortunately, I have not found any internal damage.
I'm glad the heads are so lightweight! ;D
You'll probably catch up. Waiting for parts . . . .
Quote from: hornetball on March 31, 2019, 11:44:06 PM
I'm glad the heads are so lightweight! ;D
You'll probably catch up. Waiting for parts . . . .
Considering that I broke five exhaust manifold bolts on the passenger side, I doubt that...
Doing some odds and ends. One of the things that was missing on the car was the battery hold-down rod. So I fabbed one from 3/8" diameter hardware store rod. It works really well. Simple and functional.
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Shout out to MaR for providing drawings.
Hello Hornetball,
Looks good. Do you have a wire/rod bending jig or did you use a vise and some pipe?
Christopher Winter
Quote from: savemy67 on April 04, 2019, 01:17:15 PMDo you have a wire/rod bending jig or did you use a vise and some pipe?
I used a MAPP gas torch to make the bends. Once the steel glows red, it bends easily by hand and you can make fine adjustments to the angles. I started by lighting a cigar with the torch, then I went to work on the bends. All the bends were done before the cigar was finished. ;D
Oxy-acetylene would go even more quickly if you have one of those.
The hold down looks great!
Quote from: MaR on April 04, 2019, 02:17:23 PMThe hold down looks great!
Thanks, and thanks again for the drawings.
The battery tray could use some wire-brushing and paint though . . . something for tonight.
Quote from: hornetball on April 04, 2019, 02:36:48 PM
Thanks, and thanks again for the drawings.
The battery tray could use some wire-brushing and paint though . . . something for tonight.
I used some phosphoric acid on mine and then painted it with POR-15.
Got the cam and valve train parts in and continued with engine re-assembly.
New timing gear . . . Cloyes roller:
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Used some spare rod from the battery hold-down project to make a pre-oiler. Used this to check that I was getting oil to each lifter bore.
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Cam from Competition Cams (252H), lifters and pushrods from RockAuto, rockers and T-posts from CadCompany. I temporarily threaded the two long carburetor bolts into the intake so I could use them as a "handle" to set the intake in place. That worked well.
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To re-install the front cover without removing the oil pan, I found I needed to bend in the corners of the front cover's oil pan seal retainer just a bit. I added some black RTV to the ends of the seal and then installed the front cover by compressing the seal with light pressure from a pry bar on top of the cover. I was able to leave the dowels in place to get everything lined up.
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Before disassembly, I used a punch to mark distributor alignment. I should be close when I fire it back up.
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A little paint goes a long way.
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One little modification I would recommend for your oil pump priming tool is to place a round sleeve over the end to stop the tool from slipping sideways as you are spinning it.
Pictured are some of mine for various engines, and old distributor shafts make good primers.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on April 09, 2019, 08:55:48 PMOne little modification I would recommend for your oil pump priming tool is to place a round sleeve over the end to stop the tool from slipping sideways as you are spinning it.
Good advice. I didn't have an issue, but I was cognizant of the potential problem so I kept the drill speed moderate. Anyway, I'm primed now . . . but will look into this mod for future use. I've got a big-block Chrysler up next. I wonder if this tool will work there too?
Making great progress!
Got the car together and running! Did my camshaft break-in (2000RPM+ for 25 minutes). Tomorrow I'll get it tuned correctly. I'll bet the timing will be off now that I have a fresh timing chain. I'm sure idle mixture is way off too.
Question for the gurus . . . I thought I had taken enough reference photos, but apparently not. I've got a mystery wire loom/vacuum line stay that i bolted next to the #8 runner -- but it's lonely and useless over there. I'm wondering where it is supposed to go?
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The similar piece next to the #7 runner is gainfully employed.
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Any ideas? Here's a shot of the current engine state:
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Got it buttoned up and took her for a drive. Wow, talk about smooth. That 252H camshaft is really nice, hard to tell the car is running when stopped. The torque is as smooth as a turbine.
But, I've sprung a pretty good oil leak! I suspect it's coming from the oil pump. I've got everything cleaned up and am going to add some dye to track it down.
I also managed to break my wipers (they don't park).
But, my cruise control is working!
Win some, lose some . . . .
I wouldn't be surprised if the leak is coming from the timing cover.
Very hard to completely seal them up without removing the sump.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on April 29, 2019, 08:49:53 AMI wouldn't be surprised if the leak is coming from the timing cover.
That was my first thought actually. But once I got the car up in the air, the leakage looked much heavier on the passenger side . . . so I jumped on the oil pump idea as a coping mechanism because I'd really rather not tear down the front of the engine again.
Anyway, I'll know for certain tonight when I put some dye in. I've got one of those compressed air spray wands. They really come in handy for circumstances like these.
Hornetball, the engine compartment looks nice. I like the way you routed the wire harnesses and spark pug wires.
Thanks. I tried to make it look like the manual.
Only real changes from stock:
1. I tested the Thermal Vacuum Switch with my vacuum hand pump and found it was leaking. Haven't been able to find a replacement so far, so I directly connected the distributor to the carburetor's distributor port.
2. Blocked the port to the air cleaner thermac as I wanted to feed the engine the coolest air possible.
3. Did an EGR delete. Feeding exhaust directly into the engine . . . not on any of my cars, thank you very much.
My '74 does not have a stud in that position, just a bolt.
Quote from: MaR on April 29, 2019, 08:32:02 PMMy '74 does not have a stud in that position, just a bolt.
I definitely have it in the wrong place. 2 of my studs are correct. The one by cylinder #2 to hold the bracket for the throttle return spring, idle solenoid and kickdown switch. The one by cylinder #7 which secures the engine wiring harness snaking up from the firewall. But, where does the third stud go? That's my mystery. I've been scouring photos on the internet with nothing definitive so far. Usually, these things are obvious.
I assume your car has 3 studs too?
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on April 29, 2019, 08:49:53 AMI wouldn't be surprised if the leak is coming from the timing cover.
Winner! :)
I found two leaks. The first was on the driver's side where the front oil pan seal got a bit twisted as I used the non-standard procedure for the front cover. This is the big leak. I'm going to clean it up the best I can with brake cleaner and see if some black RTV can seal it. If not, front cover will need to come off again.
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The second is an old leak coming from an oil pan bolt on the passenger side. More of a weep, really. I'll retorque this bolt to see if I can make it better, but I'm really not that worried about it.
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suggest this if you don't have it already ---
or this ---
https://www.xtremediesel.com/ford-motorcraft-rtv-silicone-sealant-ta-31?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8p6wt4z54QIVGNlkCh14oAyxEAAYASAAEgL99PD_BwE
Quote from: hornetball on April 30, 2019, 10:18:41 AM
I definitely have it in the wrong place. 2 of my studs are correct. The one by cylinder #2 to hold the bracket for the throttle return spring, idle solenoid and kickdown switch. The one by cylinder #7 which secures the engine wiring harness snaking up from the firewall. But, where does the third stud go? That's my mystery. I've been scouring photos on the internet with nothing definitive so far. Usually, these things are obvious.
I assume your car has 3 studs too?
The service manual says two, mine only has one in the front position for the return spring bracket.
Quote from: MaR on April 30, 2019, 11:13:15 PMThe service manual says two, mine only has one in the front position for the return spring bracket.
Ahhh . . . 70s quality control . . . . Kind of like how my car never had a vacuum cannister. I guess I have your missing stud. LOL. I'll re-review the service manual.
Does anyone have a source for these spring steel splash shield clips? I've found lots of plastic clips and the MOPAR steel wire clips, but haven't been able to find these. Pretty surprising as I would have expected most GM muscle cars to use them.
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Had a good weekend with the car. Got all oil leaks sealed up and coolant flushed with Thermocure. Wipers are fixed and working perfectly. As part of the Thermocure process, drove it to work and we took it out for an ice cream run!
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Time to start working on interior systems and cosmetics. Also, paint estimates.
Nice!
I was looking through your pictures again and I think your engine has been changed. Your pistons look like the rectangular dished pistons from a 71-73 car. A 74 500ci souls have a small round recess in the piston.
Quote from: MaR on May 08, 2019, 10:20:26 PM
I was looking through your pictures again and I think your engine has been changed. Your pistons look like the rectangular dished pistons from a 71-73 car. A 74 500ci souls have a small round recess in the piston.
Hadn't noticed that, but I think you're right. https://www.cad500parts.com/tech/EngineIDPages.pdf
Time to start looking at part numbers to see exactly what I have.
Quote from: hornetball on May 09, 2019, 11:11:31 AM
Hadn't noticed that, but I think you're right. https://www.cad500parts.com/tech/EngineIDPages.pdf
Time to start looking at part numbers to see exactly what I have.
I think the only way you can tell for sure is to look at the crank or measure the stroke. When you took the heads off, how many different lengths of head bolts did you have?
Quote from: MaR on May 09, 2019, 11:25:12 AM
I think the only way you can tell for sure is to look at the crank or measure the stroke. When you took the heads off, how many different lengths of head bolts did you have?
I had exactly the head bolts specified in the SM for an Eldorado (i.e, did NOT have a bolt/stud).
What I wanted to check was the casting number of the cylinder heads for chamber volume to make sure it matches the soapdish piston.
Hadn't even considered it might be a 472. Can check stroke easily enough through a spark plug hole.
Just for fun, here's the body plate.
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What I've deciphered so far:
1974 Eldorado Convertible Coupe Fleetwood Assembly Plant (Detroit) #007042
Trim: White Leather/Med Lime Carpet
Paint: Persian Lime Firemist, White Accent Stripe and Top
Production Date: 4th Week of June
Quote from: hornetball on May 09, 2019, 11:53:31 AM
I had exactly the head bolts specified in the SM for an Eldorado (i.e, did NOT have a bolt/stud).
What I wanted to check was the casting number of the cylinder heads for chamber volume to make sure it matches the soapdish piston.
Hadn't even considered it might be a 472. Can check stroke easily enough through a spark plug hole.
If it it's an earlier engine, that could explain the extra stud you have on the intake.
Quote from: hornetball on May 09, 2019, 12:54:34 PM
Just for fun, here's the body plate.
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What I've deciphered so far:
1974 Eldorado Convertible Coupe Fleetwood Assembly Plant (Detroit) #007042
Trim: White Leather/Med Lime Carpet
Paint: Persian Lime Firemist, White Accent Stripe and Top
Production Date: 4th Week of June
More body plate fun:
A65 Front Bench Seat w/Split Back
E Glass - Soft Ray
Y 6-Way Power Bench Seat
L Level Control
F Rubber Floor Mats (Missing!)
K Climate Control
I Rubber Trunk Mat (Missing!)
C Cruise Control
W Fiberglass Belted Bias Dual-Stripe Whitewall Tires
D Door Edge Guards
The car has a lot of other options that aren't reflected on the body plate, but I guess that's normal.
I've made an appointment for paint . . . August 1st. I need to take the car to them with trim off and interior mostly out. Their bread-and-butter is insurance, but their passion is doing paint jobs for restorations/hot rods. There's a Mustang, Lincoln MK4 and Stingray in line ahead of me.
Some more progress. Stripped out the trunk. I was worried because water had been getting in due to the rain gutter being incorrectly attached (which I've corrected). As it turns out, the trunk is still in good shape with only some light surface rust. I need to reapply some seam sealer and spray some protective enamel.
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The passenger side wheelwell shows evidence of a fender-bender repair -- probably an argument with a curb. The repair seems to be well done, all-metal.
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The trunk was originally covered in this cardboard/tar soundproofing material with carpeting on top. This did a great job of trapping water. The soundproofing material can't be re-used, it crumbles in my hands. I'm not sure whether I should re-apply some sort of sound barrier or whether I should just put the carpeting back in without it. The advantage of just laying the carpeting in is that I can easily pull the carpet out to get everything dry should water ever get in again. Any suggestions/recommendations?
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Also, de-trimming the car for the body shop.
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This is the worst corrosion I've found on the car, still only surface rust. This particular piece of trim wasn't removed during the cheapo 2015 paint job (you can see the slightly darker original paint hue). I had to loosen the fender to get at one of the nuts holding the trim on. It looks like the front fenders got installed with trim already applied at the factory?
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You'll want some sort of underlay under the carpet, otherwise the carpet will sag into the beads rolled into the trunk floor. It will drive you nuts to see that, trust me.
Quote from: Dan LeBlanc on May 28, 2019, 02:10:25 PMYou'll want some sort of underlay under the carpet, otherwise the carpet will sag into the beads rolled into the trunk floor. It will drive you nuts to see that, trust me.
My car may have had some kind of option. What I found in the trunk:
1. Sound deadening.
2. Black felt.
3. Heavy carpeting -- lime green, same as what is inside the car. It was this carpet that was glued to the cardboard formers on the sides and around the latch and hinges.
Most pictures I see of other cars end at the black felt. I suspect that with the black felt followed by the heavy interior carpet, I wouldn't see the beads.
Anybody else have full trunk carpeting in this era of Caddy? I'm wondering if it's correct.
From what I have seen over the years, the trunk floors were covered in a tarred felt substance that went into the grooves in the metal, and then simply a layer of black felt for carpet.
I would say that the green carpet was laid in there by a less-than-fastidious previous owner.
Bruce. >:D
Researching this further, I think the OEM sound deadening material is "EVA" or "Asphaltic Mastic" as described on this website:
https://www.accmats.com/sound-deadeners/
Does that look right?
That looks like the stuff.
But one thing to consider is that in the original material, I wouldn't be surprised if there was not an amount of Asbestos within, as Asbestos was used everywhere in cars back then. Not just Brakes and Clutches.
Bruce. >:D
This is what I am using to replace all of the asphalt mastic in my car: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BKKZ1AM/
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It's self adhesive, it cuts easily with a knife or heavy scissors and you can put on multiple layers if need be. I'm using it on the entire interior and the trunk. I already have the floorpan stripped down to the metal and after I replace the degraded seam sealer, I will POR-15 the entire floorpan and then put the Noico material on everything.
My car is fairly unmodified and everything in the trunk is covered in the black felt carpet. When I replace the carpet in the car, I will probably put the same carpet in the trunk also.
Quote from: MaR on May 29, 2019, 10:36:37 AM
My car is fairly unmodified and everything in the trunk is covered in the black felt carpet. When I replace the carpet in the car, I will probably put the same carpet in the trunk also.
It looks like that is what was done on my car. It was exactly the same carpet as in the cabin. Well done too, I had no idea it wasn't factory.
MaR, are you going to replace the black cardboard sides and back. If so, do you have a source in mind to buy the replacement kit?
Since I have all the pieces, I’m going to reproduce them myself. They can all be flattened out so it just a matter of finding some appropriate material to make them out of.
There's also the easy button:
https://www.opgi.com/eldorado/1974/trunk-panels-accessories/trunk-mats-boards/CE00499/
$185 plus shipping is a bit steep for some cardboard in my opinion. Plus, I enjoy making things myself.
Quote from: MaR on May 31, 2019, 02:04:55 PM
$185 plus shipping is a bit steep for some cardboard in my opinion. Plus, I enjoy making things myself.
At least it's $20 less than the same item from Caddy-Daddy. Plus, it's already covered in the black felt. I'm thinking about it, but I also like making things myself. Also am itching to get back on my Lotus 61. Dunno' . . . .
Actually, those panels are just bare cardboard. You still have to upholster them yourself.
Quote from: MaR on June 01, 2019, 12:51:13 PM
Actually, those panels are just bare cardboard. You still have to upholster them yourself.
If you look closely at the description, you'll see that the part number in question comes pre-covered in black felt.
It sounds like you still have to put the felt material on yourself though.
QuoteIf you look closely at the description, you'll see that the part number in question comes pre-covered in black felt.
You're right. It does say that part # CE00499
does come with felt. I called OPGI and they said it is
not covered in felt. I need to buy this kit for my '68, which is a different #, CE00481. I live nearby OPGI, so I'll go pick mine up in person. When I'm there, I'll ask to see the CE00499 and verify if it's covered in felt.
While we're on this topic, does anyone know what is the correct fabric and color for these panels? Thanks. I'll post this question on the Technical / Authenticity forum as well.
Quote from: Bentley on June 03, 2019, 05:38:15 PM
You're right. It does say that part # CE00499 does come with felt. I called OPGI and they said it is not covered in felt. I need to buy this kit for my '68, which is a different #, CE00481. I live nearby OPGI, so I'll go pick mine up in person. When I'm there, I'll ask to see the CE00499 and verify if it's covered in felt.
While we're on this topic, does anyone know what is the correct fabric and color for these panels? Thanks. I'll post this question on the Technical / Authenticity forum as well.
I can take some pictures of the stock material in my '74. I don't know if it's the same as was was in '68 though. It's a very dark charcoal color.
Mitchell,
Yes, please do. Thanks.
Quote from: Bentley on June 04, 2019, 05:33:12 PM
Mitchell,
Yes, please do. Thanks.
Here is the trunk material:
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It's a very dark charcoal with whitish fibers mixed in.
A couple of the U-bolts securing the driver's front fender to the inner fender we're broken, so I pulled the fender to replace. Also gave me a good look at condition. The car shows prior curb rash repairs on the front driver's side and rear passenger's side. I'm guessing some kind of mishap when backing? Who knows? Otherwise, rust-free and clean. I took the opportunity to respray the inner fender with some "rust-converter" flat black primer.
I've got all the trim off and interior out and am waiting for my body shop appointment for paint. (MaR, sure you don't want to come down here and spray the car for me? I've seen your work. ;))
In the meantime, working on other car systems. One of the things that wasn't working on this car was the power door locks. The solenoids were seized, a common failure mode on these when the rubber seals fail and water gets in. Here's one of my OEM solenoids. Clean on the outside, but frozen solid.
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My initial inclination was to try to get an OEM-style replacement. I would have expected these solenoids to be reproduced as they were common across all GM cars of the day. But all I could find were NOS (~$300-400) or used (~$100-200). Not only were these options expensive, but they retained the Achilles heal -- old rubber seals.
I wondered whether I could use a more modern type of solenoid in this application, so I took a chance on universal solenoids that were 2 for $10 on Amazon.
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There is an important wiring difference though. The OEM solenoid uses two coils that are grounded through the body, and our switch feeds +12VDC to one coil at a time. The universal replacements use a reversible, 2-wire electric motor and expect the position of +12VDC and GND to swap. This meant that in addition to the solenoids, I needed some SPST relays. Amazon to the rescue again with some more $5 parts.
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This is the wiring diagram I worked up for the project:
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Some plain aluminum bar provided a good mounting base:
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And here it is in the door. It works really well and pops the door lock with vigor. Let's see how long the Chinese parts last . . .
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I believe the '77 and '78 Eldorado used a much more conventional power door lock actuator that is available as an aftermarket unit if your custom unit fails. If you are looking for more the stamped U nuts, I found exact replacements (same manufacturer) at my local ACE Hardware.
Quote from: MaR on July 08, 2019, 01:49:07 PMI believe the '77 and '78 Eldorado used a much more conventional power door lock actuator that is available as an aftermarket unit if your custom unit fails. If you are looking for more the stamped U nuts, I found exact replacements (same manufacturer) at my local ACE Hardware.
The '77/'78 Eldo units (used in GM cars and trucks into the '00s) are similar to the universal units I used but are a bit bigger and costlier. The '77/78 Eldo units also require an external relay circuit to swap polarity, they are not compatible with the existing '74 wiring.
Funny you mention Ace. That's where I got my replacement U-nuts! And, yep, they seem identical.
The door is a wet environment and those relays and connectors do not look to be sealed units...otherwise a nice solution. I am probably looking at it with my GM engineering hat on, but felt I should note not that there is a reason sealed connectors and parts are used in side closures.
David
Good job with the replacements.
I managed to free-up the frozen one I had, and replaced the rubber sleeve with a section of bicycle tubing.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: David King (kz78hy) on July 08, 2019, 08:26:00 PM
The door is a wet environment and those relays and connectors do not look to be sealed units...otherwise a nice solution. I am probably looking at it with my GM engineering hat on, but felt I should note not that there is a reason sealed connectors and parts are used in side closures.
David
Yes, this is only mocked up at this stage. I'm waiting for some connector parts to come and then am planning to seal up with self-fusing silicone tape.
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on July 08, 2019, 08:35:15 PMI managed to free-up the frozen one I had, and replaced the rubber sleeve with a section of bicycle tubing.
How did you free it? I did some searching around and didn't come up with much. I'd love to get my OEM's freed up and working again.
What I did was to carefully unfold the crimped end and removed the end.
I used a mixture of side-cutter and pincers to carefully fold the metal back, and a hammer to reverse the procedure. It doesn't matter if the metal tears in places, as the replacement rubber sleeve seals it back up.
The shaft unscrews from the plunger, and I just persevered with getting the solid plunger out, cleaning it up, and then re-assembling it.
I will see if I can find the rest of the pictures and post them.
Bruce. >:D
There is also a person that "remanufactures" them by cutting a slit down the side of the body and then clamping them back together with hose clamps. I don't think that that method would be a long lasting repair.
Quote from: MaR on July 09, 2019, 08:47:43 AMThere is also a person that "remanufactures" them by cutting a slit down the side of the body and then clamping them back together with hose clamps. I don't think that that method would be a long lasting repair.
I saw that. Looks goofy. I'll give Bruce's method a try. Are your locks working or seized?
Quote from: hornetball on July 09, 2019, 01:58:30 PM
I saw that. Looks goofy. I'll give Bruce's method a try. Are your locks working or seized?
Seized up completely. I have several good ones that have the wrong brackets so I'm going to try and free up the stock ones for the heck of it.
What you have to remember is they they are just an electro-magnet, with a free-floating central lump of steel (Plunger) that is supposed to move either way when voltage is applied.
What causes the seizure is rusting is the plunger, causing it to expand around the sides, gripping the outer container.
Removing the rust, without destroying the electrical component is the clue, so be careful with the rust removal.
If the worst came to the worst, I would simply drill out the metal plunger, and then spin up a replacement in my lathe.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on July 09, 2019, 07:53:17 PMWhat causes the seizure is rusting is the plunger, causing it to expand around the sides, gripping the outer container.
Removing the rust, without destroying the electrical component is the clue, so be careful with the rust removal.
If I can get it opened up, I was planning to try a long-term soak in Evaporust. According to this, it should be OK for the windings and other electrical components. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwEJfnL77Nw
Maybe?
Quote from: hornetball on July 10, 2019, 10:48:45 AM
If I can get it opened up, I was planning to try a long-term soak in Evaporust. According to this, it should be OK for the windings and other electrical components. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwEJfnL77Nw
Maybe?
I read up on how evaporust works; I don't see any issues with soaking it. The only way it could cause a problem is if the insulation varnish has broken down on the coils. If it's to that point though, it was going to electrically fail soon enough anyway.
Still waiting for my paint appointment and continuing the journey on other doodads.
I bought a "RetroSound" radio to replace the non-functioning OEM AM/FM 8-Track. Got it mounted. I think it looks pretty good! I was able to re-use the stock knobs. The outer knobs worked out of the box. I had to file the shafts a little bit to get the inner knobs on.
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Modern radios need 4 ohm speakers, and the RetroSound radio won't work with a speaker that is referenced to chassis ground like OEM. So, putting new speakers and speaker wiring as well.
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Here's my new seat! A corded race tire from my Miata with a towel thrown over. Works well and gives a core work out while driving. Drove around a bit today. This will be sufficient for getting the car to the body shop.
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Honest John's is about an hour from my house, so I went up there to take a look. He's a great guy (so is Allen) and has a LOT more stuff than what appears on his website.
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Poking around the yard with Allen, I noticed a derelict Eldo with Westerns. Score! They're in pretty nice shape. I'll get them spruced up and they'll be a nice addition. From the stickers, they were manufactured in 1983. That's when I met Janice (love at first sight, seriously)! Ronald Reagan was President and I was an enthusiastic Midshipman at the Naval Academy back then dreaming of getting my hands on a brand new F/A-18, which I managed to do a few years later. Ahhh . . . good ol' days.
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Congratulations on picking up the Westons with the caps. Mine are different. I have two sets and use them on my own '72 Eldo. 5 on the car, and 3 spares.
Bruce. >:D
John only had 3 of the caps like those in your picture Bruce. He had 4 of the ones he threw in. I've also seen pictures of these wheels used with chrome lug nuts and smaller center caps -- looks kind of sporty.
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Not sure which way I'll go at the moment.
When I was building my '37 Chev Hot Rod, I came across the Western Bullet wheels, and purchased a set back in 1978 because they have the cap covering the nuts. I still have those wheels, plus a few more of differing sizes for other projects.
When I got my Eldo, I started looking for the Western Cyclone II wheels to fit on the car, as they really look good to me, and having the nuts being covered really adds class.
Bruce. >:D
Getting ready to pull the steering wheel for restoration. I was surprised that I couldn't find a description of the procedure in the FSM. I have a wheel puller and am familiar with pulling steering wheels in general. But I haven't ever pulled a Cadillac steering wheel nor a telescopic steering wheel (this car has the tilt/telescope option). Any gotcha's?
Rick,
Pulling the steering wheel on a T&T equipped car is not difficult. Remove the horn pad; there are three 5/16" (IIRC) hex nuts on the back side, one in each spoke. Lift the horn pad and carefully remove the horn connector. It twists, and has tangs and notches like a bulb in a socket. Move the telescoping lever to the "release" position. Three 5/16" hex nuts hold the adjusting lever to the T&T lock. Before removing the nuts, you may want to mark the position of the lever to the lock, so it can be re-installed in the same position. You will note that there are slots in the lock portion, and extra screw holes in the release portion, which permit adjustment of the lock and release. When released, with the lever at the left-hand extremity, the wheel will telescope freely, without any scraping or binding. When locked, with the lever nearly at the right-hand extremity, the wheel should remain locked, and a firm tug on the wheel should not cause it to move.
Remove the nut holding the wheel to the center shaft. There is a line or mark on the center shaft for alignment purposes. Make a reference mark on the center of the wheel aligning with that mark, so that the wheel can be re-installed in the same position. Use a conventional steering wheel puller, threading two hex bolts into the threaded holes straddling the center of the wheel. Place a washer or some other suitable metallic item, on top of the shaft, in order to protect the threads on the shaft, and to prevent distortion of the top of the shaft, where you will observe a hollow core. Snug up the puller by hand, and then use a box end wrench or socket and ratchet to tighten the center bolt. In less than two turns, the wheel should pop off the column. It is a tight "press-fit". If you notice any rust in this area, you may want to use some penetrating lubricant before attempting to pull the wheel.
There will be a large wire coil spring on the back side of the wheel and shroud assembly. That furnishes the ground for the horn, and makes contact with a plastic disc containing brass contacts. Re-assembly is the reverse of the above.
In order to achieve the appropriate lock adjustment on re-assembly, once the wheel is in position and the center nut torqued properly, thread the lock (with the adjusting lever behind it) into the center hole. When you reach the point where you can no longer turn it by hand, check whether the wheel will telescope. If it does, use a screwdriver in one of the slots on the lock and continue to turn the lock until the wheel cannot be telescoped. Then re-insert the three screws and tighten. Operate the lever several times, and using the slots, fine-tune the adjustment if required, to obtain free movement when unlocked, and complete locking when tightened.
In the salvage yards in the past, for lack of a steering wheel puller, I have removed the wheel by releasing the T&T, removing the center nut, and giving the shaft a forceful, well-placed strike with a hammer. I am then left with the steering wheel in my hand, and the center shaft driven down into the column. This is NOT RECOMMENDED, but I did resort to that method on cars that were obviously going to the crusher.
-Charles Fares
Thanks Charles. Very clear.
Got the car off to the body shop for paint on Wednesday.
Had the Westerns restored by an outfit called RimSpec LLC in Grand Prarie. They got the wheels perfectly straight and then replicated the original machined and black finish all sealed up in powder coat clear. The pictures don't do justice, they really pop!
Those turned out great!
Looking closely at the wheels, I see a slight issue over the originals.
The spokes should be exactly 90 Degrees on the edges, and not rolled over like yours have been done, and the actual outside surface should not be as deeply "grooved".
I have sets that I purchased new, and the Bullet wheel and the Cyclone II wheels, which is the Cadillac FWD wheel, have surface finishes both the same. Not polished at all, just finely machined.
But, having said that, with so few sets still around, yours still look nice.
One day I will get around to painting the insides of mine.
Bruce. >:D
Bruce, I think what you are seeing is the difference in thickness between clear paint (per original) and clear powder coat which is much thicker and glossier. There wasn't any "rolling over" on the spokes during the machining, it is a sharp 90 beneath the clear. I agree that the machining isn't quite as fine as the original, but I was excited they were able to replicate it pretty closely. Most of these that I see redone are just powder coated aluminum and you lose the machined surface altogether.
I didn't have much choice. 3 of the wheels had deep curb rash in the spokes (since that is what sticks out). During repair, the shop filled those gouges with TIG and then re-machined the surface. I'm really happy with the job they did and I hope the powder coating is durable (should be).
If you don't like the thickness/gloss of the powder coating process, then make sure you stick with paint instead if you ever redo yours. From what I could see of the originals, Western used a satin clear paint after machining the surface.
Interior is out, dismantled and washed. Barry (Fibrenew franchisee in Burleson, TX) is scheduled to pick these up this week from minor repairs and redye. He seems on the ball, so I'm hoping for a nice result. I found it interesting that the GM Medium Lime interior actually darkens, rather than lightens, in the Sun. You can definitely see the difference in the second picture, in both the dash pieces and the two steering wheel halves. I picked up a second upper dash to have as a spare.
I have found on my Cranberry '74, some of the parts have faded lighter and some of them (particularly the steering wheel parts) have gotten darker. Are you replacing the carpets also?
Yes, I got new ACC carpets with the "mass backing." The carpets had already been replaced once, but then some braineack hit them with gray paint (you can see some of the gray paint on the kick panels -- WTF?!?).
I'm planning to follow your lead and paint the floors with POR-15 followed by the Noico butyl sound deadener material that you linked. Jute and the "mass backing" carpet will go on top of that.
The OEM sound deadener (at least on the front floor) consisted of three layers -- Asphaltic Mastic + Jute + Asphaltic Mastic. Unfortunately, the OEM Asphaltic Mastic crumbles. My thought is that Noico + Jute + "mass backing" will mimic the OEM effect pretty closely (maybe even better) while doing a good waterproofing job to preserve the floors. Planning on Noico + Felt for the trunk.
Quote from: hornetball on August 20, 2019, 03:06:44 PM
Yes, I got new ACC carpets with the "mass backing." The carpets had already been replaced once, but then some braineack hit them with gray paint (you can see some of the gray paint on the kick panels -- WTF?!?).
I'm planning to follow your lead and paint the floors with POR-15 followed by the Noico butyl sound deadener material that you linked. Jute and the "mass backing" carpet will go on top of that.
The OEM sound deadener (at least on the front floor) consisted of three layers -- Asphaltic Mastic + Jute + Asphaltic Mastic. Unfortunately, the OEM Asphaltic Mastic crumbles. My thought is that Noico + Jute + "mass backing" will mimic the OEM effect pretty closely (maybe even better) while doing a good waterproofing job to preserve the floors. Planning on Noico + Felt for the trunk.
Yep, my mastic layers were the same: very crumbly and mine were damp. The material that is on the underside of the firewall/cowl and in a few other areas is actually a form of rockwool. I'm just replacing that with more of the Noico and some 3/4" jute. Something that is interesting, in my '74 CDV, I distinctly remember that there was a layer of either horsehair or something very similar to horsehair between the massbacking and the carpet. That car was a d'Elegance trimmed car so it had some of the features of the Talisman trim package like the wider lower door panel trim and the thicker carpet so I wonder of the changes to the carpet padding were in the Talisman trim also.
I'm looking forward to your "Talisman" Eldorado!
BTW, I keep getting lucky. Just scored a Persian Lime dealer promo model!
Worked on the steering wheel last night. It had two cracks, a large one on top and a smaller one on the bottom. I hogged them out, filled with JB Plastic Weld and profiled them with a file.
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I then covered with a white Wheelskins leather cover. The Wheelskins product is excellent, I've used them on many other cars. This cover will be dyed lime along with the other lime items by my Fibrenew guy (he requested white as being easier to dye).
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I used a similar leather wrap on my '74 CDV long ago. It held up well, as should yours. I'm eager to see the finished result of your interior. I've always like the Persian Lime cars.
No cool pictures. Just getting excited. Car is at the paint shop and has already been stripped and primered. I can tell from the questions I'm being asked that the person overseeing the work gives a darn! They also thanked me for bringing them a rust-free car "for a change." LOL.
Interior is with the Fibrenew guy.
So, just planning next steps. It's going to be awesome to finally be assembling instead of disassembling.
BTW, for anyone following the thread, I found a source of the spring-steel splash shield clips here:
https://www.rubbertherightway.com/clips-multi-purpose-clip-fits-54052-prd1.htm
They seem to have lots of the harder to find clips/fasteners.
Quote from: hornetball on September 05, 2019, 11:17:28 AM
No cool pictures. Just getting excited. Car is at the paint shop and has already been stripped and primered. I can tell from the questions I'm being asked that the person overseeing the work gives a darn! They also thanked me for bringing them a rust-free car "for a change." LOL.
Interior is with the Fibrenew guy.
So, just planning next steps. It's going to be awesome to finally be assembling instead of disassembling.
BTW, for anyone following the thread, I found a source of the spring-steel splash shield clips here:
https://www.rubbertherightway.com/clips-multi-purpose-clip-fits-54052-prd1.htm
They seem to have lots of the harder to find clips/fasteners.
Nice find on those clips. I was about to ask you about them but I managed to harvest all I needed from a local junkyard.
Without a doubt these two 74 Eldorado restoration threads are among the BEST on the forums. I always look forward to a new post. Excellent work.
Terry
I used a Wheelskins leather wrap on my '73s steering wheel with a baseball stitch, not bothersome at all and the wheel has a nice feel to it.
Body shop pictures:
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They painted the door edges to test paint match against the 1974 spray. Looks darn close to me:
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Looking great
It's sprayed!
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Janice is happy!
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Body shop still needs to give it a final buff and apply pin stripes. Should be coming home sometime next week and then I'll need to get busy again.
Super nice looking job!
That looks awesome!
So, the other day, Janice told me why she is so infatuated with large, green luxury rides. This cigarette ad campaign really made an impression on 10 year old Janice. We don't even smoke. LOL.
I'll take a Caddy over a Rolls any day . . . .
I wish I had all of my new 3D printed fillers ready so you could put them on your car. It's going to look so good when you have it finished.
Got the car and interior back. Now the re-assembly process begins.
I polished my trim. One of the issues here is the painted centers (painted to match the top color) of the side trim. When polishing, you inevitably wear through the nearly 50 year old paint. I tried a few times to repaint the centers, but was unable to get a clean edge that I liked. Some paint would always pull up with the tape as polished stainless is hardly a great surface for adhesion. The solution for me was 3M striping tape in 1/4" width. It turned out really nice:
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Also, began preparing the floors for insulation and carpeting. I started with wire brushing and sealing with a Marine-rated primer. I had gone back and forth on POR-15. In the end, I thought I would prefer something removable in the future. The car didn't have any rust in the floors to begin with, so I figured this would be plenty (and more than the factory put it):
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I've started on laying down the Noico. First time I've ever done this. It was straightforward:
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Also, put in new, correct trunk weatherstrip. Began by cleaning and sealing the channel using the same Marine primer I used on the floors:
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I then glued in the new weatherstrip with masking tape in place. Once the masking tape was pulled up, it was a neat job. The trunk closes well.
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I ordered restored lower door panels from Cadillac King. They're nice, but I specifically asked for ACC "Willow Green" lower carpet. Oh well:
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The incorrect carpet came up easily with a heat gun and some mineral spirits for final cleanup.
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Also pulled the rear bumper for chrome (5mph bumpers are a PITA!). It was badly scratched around the fuel filler and also had sanding scratches in the top surface from prior paint. Some pitting was beginning also. Dropped it off yesterday. Dang, chrome is expensive these days!
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If you don't mind me asking, how much was the rechroming?
$800.
But I only got charged $3500 for the paint, so maybe I'm still doing OK.
New hood pad. Old one wasn't in too bad of shape, but I figured "what the heck"!
OK, somebody clue me in. How do the side moldings go on? Are they supposed to snap on? Do I have the right clips?
Yep, the trim snaps on the plastic clips. Hook the top edge of the trim on the lip of the clip and pop the bottom edge over the bottom of the clip.
MaR, can you snap me a picture of your doorjamb stickers? Mine were stripped by the painters, and I'd like to source replacements.
Added some high-res pictures of the Cadillac King restored lower door panel for Big Fins. I think the vinyl and padding was quite well done. There is one seam adjacent to the switch panel.
Quote from: hornetball on October 14, 2019, 11:55:02 AM
MaR, can you snap me a picture of your doorjamb stickers? Mine were stripped by the painters, and I'd like to source replacements.
No problem, I'll take them in the next few days.
They did a great job on those panels. Hi-Res? Uhhh, yeah!! You can count the hairs in the back board. That looks a whole lot better than these upholstery shops do sewing them together.
Thanks!
Quote from: Big Fins on October 14, 2019, 03:24:56 PMHi-Res? Uhhh, yeah!! You can count the hairs in the back board.
You were warned! ;D
Here is the sticker:
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Here is a full resolution version: http://jelloslug.com/caddy/IMG_6334%20-%20full%20size.JPG
As you can see, the actual vehicle information was added to the sticker after the boiler plate info was printed on and is in a different (typewritten) font. The sticker itself measures 3-3/4" x 1-5/8" and has a clear plastic laminating layer over the paper sticker.
Inline Tube in Romeo, Michigan, sells reproductions of these. Owing to the great demand for this item from owners of Olds Cutlasses, Chevelles, and Buick Skylarks, these are now readily available. Inline Tube sells directly, and on eBay.
-Charles Fares
Awesome. Thanks gentlemen!
Gradually making headway on re-assembling Janice's Caddy.
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I found the best way to retrim the front quarters was with them removed from the car. Makes access to secure that lower trim piece easy.
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Mounted the re-chromed rear bumper. Used a piece of muffler strap to replace the dry-rotted inner bumper piece for the 5mph mechanism.
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Also worked on repairing some of the fiber optics.
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This is my fiber optic toolset from fiberopticproducts.com. I used the gel form of Krazy Glue, and it seemed to work OK. I also discovered that the front fiber optic cables are larger in diameter than the rears. Go figure!
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Mostly, it has just been a process of clean, polish, fit, assemble, repeat. There are a lot of pieces on these cars! Here's an example of a cleanup:
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And it's the rear lamp monitors that are the hardest to see. My front fender monitors are like little headlights, even in the daytime.
It's really staring to come together! When you start to put the front fenders on, it will be very helpful to have two people. The inner fender well is a really tight fit to the fender when the inner fender is already mounted to the car. When they mounted it on the assembly line, the inner fender was already bolted to the outer fender and it was all put on as one piece.
Quote from: Big Fins on November 11, 2019, 06:23:32 PMAnd it's the rear lamp monitors that are the hardest to see.
Plus the rears have a really long run.
Quote from: MaR on November 12, 2019, 08:50:56 AMWhen you start to put the front fenders on, it will be very helpful to have two people.
You available? ;D
Got busy with other things and the work on the Eldo kind of languished. But back on it with a bunch of updates. I hope to be nearly finished by the time the current Christmas break is over.
Got the rear filler panels mounted up. They turned out well.
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Got the NOICO down in the trunk and passenger compartment. Got all wiring resecured.
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Steering wheel re-installed. I think the dyed leather looks nice.
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Got the new interior carpet out of the box and set into place to relax. This is the ACC carpet ("Willow Green" color) with mass backing. I'm pleased with the fit. The mass backing even has hole locations stamped in.
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Worked on getting the door panels installed. First order of business was to cut new vapor barriers. I used sheet foam for this and used the OEM paper from the passenger door as a template.
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Next up was lots and lots of polishing. Enlisted my Grandson Preston to help.
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Most of the cigarette lighters were corroded beyond saving. Fortunately, that's an easily found item.
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Don't forget the Scotchguard (tm)!
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Door panels turned out well.
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Since I'm close to re-install, gave the seatbelts and power seat bases a good scrubbing. Also lubricated and painted the bottom of the seat bases to prevent rust stains on the new carpet.
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Most of the lights in the instrument cluster were non-functional. So I pulled it and went through it. I had one burned out bulb. The remaining issues were with corrosion/poor contact between bulb and socket. The gray sockets take type 194 lamps (daylight readable, turn indicators and high beam lamp). The black sockets take type 161 lamps (softer night backlighting).
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While I was there, gave the lens a nice polishing:
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nice work!
How does the carpet texture (loop, or cutpile?) compare to the original style?
Best regards,
Nicolas
Quote from: DeVille68 on December 29, 2019, 03:45:49 PMHow does the carpet texture (loop, or cutpile?) compare to the original style?
I can't discern any difference. Mine is cutpile (OEM for '74). The green hue is slightly different although it could also be sun fading on the original.
You are making great progress!
Finally getting to the point of putting large parts together. Carpet in (very happy with the ACC product, fit like a glove). Door and side panels in. Rear seat in (with functional light monitor).
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"Never Dull" sure works well on Aluminum!
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Next up is the dash. After that, the front bench. Sure feels good to be putting things back together!
Looking great! I hope to be at the point you are at in the foreseeable future...
Upper dash reassembly. Lots of little lights to check with the ohmeter. In general, I've found the lightbulbs don't burn out, they just get a lot of resistance buildup from corrosion in the socket.
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Fit modern 4ohm speakers for the radio upgrade. The OEM wire mounting wouldn't fit on these speakers, so I used safety wire instead. It worked well. The speakers fit into the car with plenty of room to spare.
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Upper dash in!
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Working on radio wiring.
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Testing of the caution lights revealed that my oil pressure switch is stuck open. I have a socket for the switch, but the switch is so near the block that I can't get the socket over it. Any hints? Do I just need a better (thinner) socket?
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I have a socket that fit my oil pressure sender so you just need a thinner socket. I ended up replace almost all of the little grey and black bulb sockets on the warning lights and the instrument panel. I only found one burn out bulb.
Haven't made as much progress as I hoped. Putting the dash and interior back in has been quite the puzzle. But, happy to report it is all in and working with no parts left over (the labeled-baggy method works after all)! 8)
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One bit of unplanned work, I rebuilt and lubricated my power seat transmission. The solenoids were kind of weak and would sometimes engage/sometimes not. With a good cleaning and fresh grease, the power seat works perfectly now. I meant to take a picture of the disassembled transmission because it was pretty cool looking. But, I forgot. All in all, not difficult, just takes time.
Also, I was able to get a thinner walled oil pressure switch socket. New oil pressure switch works perfectly.
That turned out stunning!
Ready for a first-in-class at the next CLC GN!
Quote from: 35-709 on January 05, 2020, 10:02:26 AM
Ready for a first-in-class at the next CLC GN!
If MaR comes, I'll be happy with second.
Looks great!!! ;D
Are those the original seat belt sleeves? If not would you know who reproduces them?
Thanks in advance!
Quote from: hornetball on January 05, 2020, 10:08:10 PM
If MaR comes, I'll be happy with second.
You're not competing against each other - you're competing against the judging sheet, so you can both get first if you meet the required number of points to qualify.
Quote from: guyrobert on January 06, 2020, 07:43:10 PMAre those the original seat belt sleeves? If not would you know who reproduces them?
They're original. Unsure if they are reproduced.
Quote from: Dan LeBlanc on January 07, 2020, 10:32:11 AMYou're not competing against each other - you're competing against the judging sheet, so you can both get first if you meet the required number of points to qualify.
I didn't know that. I do need to make it out to one someday. My comment was really a tongue-in-cheek compliment of the amazing work MaR is doing.
Quote from: hornetball on January 07, 2020, 10:49:11 AM
They're original. Unsure if they are reproduced.
I have found similar pieces but nothing exact. Mine are are chewed up and not usable but I do have one that is intact enough to copy. The issue with 3D printing that part is material selection. Semi ridged and ridged plastics are easy but that part is fairly flexible so to print that in a flexible material that is not only durable but dyeable is not something that I know about yet.
Thanks for the feedback on the sleeves, mine are shot in my 79 Phaeton and I have found nothing close in the aftermarket and any parts cars that come up have the same problem...
Quote from: hornetball on January 07, 2020, 10:50:36 AM
I didn't know that. I do need to make it out to one someday. My comment was really a tongue-in-cheek compliment of the amazing work MaR is doing.
With the work both of you are doing, both cars are deserving of a first in my book.
Thank you Dan. Nice of you to say that.
Heck, I would give both of you first places, without the requirement to take them anywhere.
Bruce. >:D
There you go. ;D
Quote from: Dan LeBlanc on January 07, 2020, 03:13:26 PM
With the work both of you are doing, both cars are deserving of a first in my book.
:bigthumbsup:
Hahahaha!!
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Now that most of my parts are back on the car, it was time for some more disassembly. The problem with rechroming the rear is it makes the front look bad. So, off with the front bumper! Talk about complicated, by the time I had the bumper apart, there were 10 distinct pieces to take to the chrome shop ($$$)!
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The radiator was also weeping. The replacement I sourced was generic GM and had the overflow nipple clocked incorrectly with a 5/8" heater return instead of a 3/4". So I'm having a radiator shop in Ft. Worth fix that for me. It's getting hard to find radiator shops these days.
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Also worked on the AC system. When I first got the car, the AC compressor seized on the drive back home, which relegated me to manual steering! In addition to the bad compressor, I found that the thermal fuse was bad. The fuse itself had continuity, but the heater element did not which explains why it didn't protect the compressor. Had I been thinking, I would have pulled the compressor clutch plug to ensure it wouldn't engage while making that initial drive. Live and learn.
While installing the new compressor, I also installed a "VIR Eliminator" from Old Air Products and replaced all O-Rings. The "VIR Eliminator" replaces the VIR with a simple orifice on the high pressure side along with a receiver/drier on the low pressure side with a clutch cycling pressure switch.
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Alas, the system won't hold a vacuum. When I vacuum the low pressure side, I'm able to get 20" of vacuum. But on the high pressure side I only get 9". I suspect a bad condenser. Planning to modify my gauges for compressed air so I can check out the system with a soap solution to show the leak(s).
Now that you have a cycling pressure switch in your a/c system, if you're replacing the system, I highly suggest using the Pro6Ten from Old Air Products. A6 compressors are not really designed to be cycled. I used the Pro6Ten with R-12 and the original POA valve and it cooled great.
Yes, it's true that the 77-79 Cadillacs used them with cycling systems, but, it's not ideal.
I'll keep that in mind. Should have done that in the first place, but it's too late to return the reman A6 at this point.
That front bumper is nice and light weight. >:D
Quote from: MaR on January 13, 2020, 10:50:50 AMThat front bumper is nice and light weight. >:D
It'll ram anything at 5mph, baby!
Quote from: hornetball on March 15, 2019, 02:24:37 PM
Everything's bigger in TX. 8)
It's still too small. They always are!! Even in Texas!!!
;D
Quote from: hornetball on January 12, 2020, 10:50:33 PM
<SNIP>It's getting hard to find radiator shops these days.
[<SNIP>
Finding radiator shops is easy. Finding one that will do little more than replace the existing radiator with a universal aluminum and plastic unit is the hard part. I found this out when the radiator on our Seville started leaking.
I ended up at a shop that does big truck radiator and intercooler repair. He quoted me about $500 to repair what we had, but could get a 100% aluminum one for about $300. I kept the OEM radiator, and still need to get it recored, but opted for the aluminum one. It's pretty. ;D Since our Seville is not a 100%er, this was a good option.
You're doing some awesome work here. It incentivises me to get out and get back to our SVO restomod. Work keeps getting in the way.
Quote from: Gene Beaird on January 17, 2020, 01:12:48 PMFinding radiator shops is easy. Finding one that will do little more than replace the existing radiator with a universal aluminum and plastic unit is the hard part.
Back in the day, you could find a real radiator shop just about anywhere. Now you have to go to a city to find one. There just isn't that much demand anymore I guess.
In any case, went to Kirby's radiator in Fort Worth. They clocked the filler neck, replaced the 5/8" heater return with a 3/4", pressure tested and repainted the radiator. Charged me $45. I'm really happy with that. I'll use them again.
Quote from: hornetball on January 17, 2020, 03:44:22 PM
Back in the day, you could find a real radiator shop just about anywhere. Now you have to go to a city to find one. There just isn't that much demand anymore I guess.
In any case, went to Kirby's radiator in Fort Worth. They clocked the filler neck, replaced the 5/8" heater return with a 3/4", pressure tested and repainted the radiator. Charged me $45. I'm really happy with that. I'll use them again.
Indeed. In fact, the first place I took the Seville radiator to was a place that had been in business for many years, and a place I had gotten radiators recored at before. Not anymore, sadly.
Quote from: Gene Beaird on January 17, 2020, 01:12:48 PM
Finding radiator shops is easy. Finding one that will do little more than replace the existing radiator with a universal aluminum and plastic unit is the hard part.
How true!!
A lot of the reasons for this is the government's crackdown on the use of chemicals and their disposable. There aren't any chemicals needed to repair the aluminum core plastic tanked radiators.
But the old copper and brass radiators were a much better radiator. And they cool better than the aluminum ones do, despite what a lot of the makers claim.
I spoke to U.S.Radiator about one for my '56 and they told me flat out that the copper was better than the aluminum.
I just hope that there will still be a shop somewhere if I ever need it. It's that or I learn how to do it myself.
Some updates:
1. Took my radiator to "Kirby's Radiator" in Fort Worth. They re-clocked my filler neck and replaced the 5/8" heater return with 3/4". Radiator fit like a dream after that. Cost was $45. Would use again.
2. Pressurized the AC system and found a leaking hose. So I pulled the hoses and took them to Old Air Products in Fort Worth. They are building me new hoses and, since they have mine as patterns, they'll be able to build hoses for any other Eldo that uses a VIR ('74 and '75 I think?). Might even become a catalog item.
So, since I'm waiting for parts, I piddled. One of the things that was missing on my car was the rear plate lift handle. I've looked for these in junkyards, but the OEM part is made of a vinyl/plastic material that deteriorates in the sun. This is a reference photo that I found:
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I decided to replicate this in metal and bought some 2" x 1/16" aluminum angle at Lowes. I cut it to shape, added some bends and riveted it to the rear plate holder as per original. I think it turned out pretty well. It covers the gas cap and makes lifting the rear plate of fillups easier. It will also never deteriorate.
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Oh dear, there goes more points at judging. ;)
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on January 21, 2020, 07:43:54 PM
Oh dear, there goes more points at judging. ;)
Bruce. >:D
LOL. Just wait until I get the Westerns mounted. Maybe I'll get some back for the '74 license plate?
Are they the same as mine?
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on January 21, 2020, 08:11:09 PMAre they the same as mine?
Similar. I found them in a junkyard and had them restored back in August.
http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=154660.msg439508#msg439508
I have a few of those handles. They are on my list of parts to model and 3D print.
Quote from: MaR on January 22, 2020, 01:41:06 PMThey are on my list of parts to model and 3D print.
Let me know when you have them. Every one I've ever touched in a yard crumbles in my hands.
Quote from: hornetball on January 22, 2020, 01:47:37 PM
Let me know when you have them. Every one I've ever touched in a yard crumbles in my hands.
I have two nice flexible ones I got from the junkyard and I bought an NOS one that is crumbling...
More progress.
Old Air Products built me new hoses using my originals as patterns. This is now a catalog item for them. The system held a nice vacuum for a couple of days so I charged it with R134a (note, I'm at ~1000' elevation, so 28" of vacuum is about all I can get here). I needed to jumper the thermal fuse and Old Air Products VIR Eliminator pressure switch to charge from a full vacuum. That's another nice feature of the VIR Eliminator . . . if I lose the refrigerant charge it will disengage the compressor clutch, probably before the thermal fuse burns out.
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I got my font bumper back from the chrome shop and spent most of Saturday putting it back together. It looks really nice.
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Look Ma! I have a face again!
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Driver's side wheel cylinder started leaking, so doing a complete rear brake job. Shame too, as the shoes that were on the car had plenty of life left but are now fouled by brake fluid. Fortunately, I had replaced the rear hard lines back in the Spring, so they came right off the old wheel cylinders.
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Now I'm going to have to buy some new AC lines....
I just noticed that on your car up where the firewall meets the cowl, the seam sealer looks to be crumbling away. That's a common location for water leaks so you may want to pull all that old sealer out and refresh it with some new sealer.
Been enjoying the car. It's a nice, smooth ride that gets a lot of comments. I'm down to just a handful of odds and ends. Project for last week was getting the Western's shod and put on the car. Shook it down yesterday evening. I haven't put them on a scale, but the Western wheel/tire combination was noticeably easier to lift than the OEM. They rode quieter and smoother. I think they look nice.
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The centers aren't the original Western hardware. They were a set that Honest John's scrounged up for me. They look nice and fit well, but I have no idea what the original application was and I couldn't find any identifying markings. Anyone know what these came from?
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Wow! ;D
Gorgeous.
Bruce. >:D
Ooooh, that looks NICE!!
8)
Superb! Those wheels really make the car!
Looking great!
Mission accomplished. ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMeSNpIYMmM&feature=youtu.be
Quote from: hornetball on April 19, 2020, 09:03:44 PM
Mission accomplished. ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMeSNpIYMmM&feature=youtu.be
Awesome!
nice!
8)
Nothing caps off a restoration like a track session!
(https://i9.ytimg.com/vi/c4243kYe8rE/mq3.jpg?sqp=CLTGnvcF&rs=AOn4CLAEUB__5WMs8-RgxNyOuodRYTNzTA)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4243kYe8rE&feature=youtu.be
I hope you had the top down!
Quote from: MaR on June 15, 2020, 04:17:03 PMI hope you had the top down!
Absolutely! It was gorgeous day.
What, no passing? Or were't you allowed to?
Boy, wish I was there.
Bruce. >:D
These were low speed "Parade Laps." The car would need a roll bar or cage to run at speed. Bruce, the car in front is a Chevy SS -- probably one of the last produced at the old Holden factory.
Thought it had the Holden Commodore look about it, with minimum body roll looking at it a second time, but then nearly all cars these days look alike.
Bruce. >:D
Thanks for great story and great photos! Small question: what kind of retainers or clips did use to attach the trim in the place in photo?
Quote from: Matti R on August 31, 2020, 09:42:54 AMThanks for great story and great photos! Small question: what kind of retainers or clips did use to attach the trim in the place in photo?
They are a steel retainer with a threaded stud. They attach with a nut on the back side of the panel. They are almost impossible to reach with the fender on the car. You'll notice that I pulled the fenders when I put the trim back on specifically for these pieces. If you review MaR's build thread, I think he posted a picture of the retainer.
This is what the clip looks like:
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Quote from: MaR on August 31, 2020, 04:09:22 PM
This is what the clip looks like:
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Thanks.
Actually the reason I'm asking is that I noticed it is almost impossible to tighten the nuts there so I thought I must be doing something wrong. So, I need to pull the fender??
Quote from: Matti R on September 01, 2020, 04:31:33 AM
Thanks.
Actually the reason I'm asking is that I noticed it is almost impossible to tighten the nuts there so I thought I must be doing something wrong. So, I need to pull the fender??
They are hard to reach but it's doable. If you are having issues with the stud spinning, it may be rusted. There are little ears on the stud that allow the clip to have some vertical adjustment and if they get rusted, the stud can spin in the clip.
Quote from: Matti R on September 01, 2020, 04:31:33 AM
Thanks.
Actually the reason I'm asking is that I noticed it is almost impossible to tighten the nuts there so I thought I must be doing something wrong. So, I need to pull the fender??
You should be able to reach the forward one pretty well. The rear one is well blocked by the door pillar structure. I was able to reach it by removing the bottom rear bolts of the fender and loosening the others so I could gently push the bottom rear corner of the fender outward. If all you are trying to do is tighten, this might be enough. Like MaR said, these particular trim connectors are susceptible to rust as they are steel and in a location that sees a lot of dirt/water.
Good luck!
Entered the CLC's virtual show! Best we can do in these times I guess.
https://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/general/custom.asp?page=virtualcarshow
So, I was planning to race my 1964 Corvette in the SVRA event at COTA (Austin) a couple of weeks ago. However, they filled up with entries. So I took the Eldo and entered their car show so I could hang out with friends. It won people's choice!
Very nice!
Way to go!
Nice!