special ordered Cadillac's

[Series75]

Six years ago.   You spend too much time here.

[wrefakis]

59 Cadillac optional specifications manual page 10 "on SPECIAL ORDERS" type OO in trim space

[oldcarguy]

Referring to SO and going to the show room and picking what you want. Yes you could do that, as I did in the fall of 1963. I was all exited about the new Pontiac GTO that I had been reading and hearing about. So, I went to my local Pontiac dealership in Lawrenceburg, Tn. and ordered the car of may dreams [no, it wasn't a Caddy, but it was GM] and picked the things I wanted, such as tranny, color, rearend, wheel covers and the redline tires. Now, none of these items were really SO as they were all stock items, but I did pick what I wanted in the combo that I wanted. It was a good experience for a young guy buying his first new car.
It arrived about six weeks later and I was stoked!!
Don Ford
PS; it was a 389/tri-power....

[m-mman]

Almost all Cad special order cars involved just colors and trims. One prohibition I remember reading was that you could not put a deluxe interior in a cheap car. This mostly applied to DeVille interiors installed in series 62 & Calais. Depending on the years the cheaper cars had vinyl on the seats/bolsters the better cars had leather. I guess if you wanted the better interior you needed to buy the better car. 

An option listed in the 70s data books was "Maximum Leather". 100% leather on ALL parts of the seats including bolsters, backrests etc. Anybody ever seen one? I have not. But it would take some looking to notice it.

I wonder IF GM would have built a 1964 El Dorado WITH fender skirts? Could you have paid enough for them to do this?

Cad didn't offer many choices in the mechanical department. Anybody ever seen a 1953(?) or later Cad with a manual trans?  I think an ElDorado with a stick would be nice.

For tales about mechanical strangeness you have to leave the Cad dealer. A friend went to a Ford dealer in 1971 and tried to order a Torino four door hardtop with a 4 speed transmission. (readily available in a 2 door hardtop or convertible) Dealer and a call to Ford corporate said NO! they would not put a 4 speed in a 4 door. (why not?) He bought a used car from another dealer.

Most Cads are fully loaded. Likely any stripped Cad would have been a special order car too but would not show up on the data plate or forms. 1960s-70s Cads with crank windows or no A/C would be special order. I once saw a badly beat up 1967 2 door (most likely a Calais?) in a junkyard with NO OPTIONS!  crank windows, manual seat no A/C but with a Mark IV trunk air installed.

I also once saw a 1960 Ford Galaxie top line 4 door hardtop where they 'skipped' options. Power Steering but manual brakes. Power windows but manual seat. The small 292 V-8 but the 'big' Cruisomatic trans. They spent $400 for factory air, but not $20 for the padded dash & visors. Strange.

[jagbuxx #12944]

Just up on eBay is a nice '67 Coupe in Persian Ivory with a 000 trim on the tag for the smooth leather instead of standard perforated leather...

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Most Cads are fully loaded. Likely any stripped Cad would have been a special order car too but would not show up on the data plate or forms. 1960s-70s Cads with crank windows or no A/C would be special order. I once saw a badly beat up 1967 2 door (most likely a Calais?) in a junkyard with NO OPTIONS!  crank windows, manual seat no A/C but with a Mark IV trunk air installed.

If "fully loaded" means literally every possible option available for a given model & year, I would have to disagree. The number of cars so ordered are a very few and far between.

"Special Order" within the context of this discussion specifically refers to an order in which non-standard trim combinations and/or exterior colors were specified by the buyer. Occasionally it may also refer to special mechanical options and/or deletions but this usually not the case and special mechanical requests are not indicated with an SO designation on the cowl data plate.

Lack of optional equipment compared with that on the majority of other units manufactured within a given model & year does not constitute Special Order and it is incorrect to label it as such.

[D.Smith]

If "fully loaded" means literally every possible option available for a given model & year, I would have to disagree. The number of cars so ordered are a very few and far between.

"Special Order" within the context of this discussion specifically refers to an order in which non-standard trim combinations and/or exterior colors were specified by the buyer. Occasionally it may also refer to special mechanical options and/or deletions but this usually not the case and special mechanical requests do are not indicated with an SO designation on the cowl data plate.

Lack of optional equipment compared with that on the majority of other units manufactured within a given model is not a Special Order and it is incorrect to label it as such.

Exactly!    Ordered and special ordered are two different things!

I hate it when people say "Special ordered without A/C" or a radio.     It wasn't "Special ordered", it was just ordered without that option.   Non recommended color combinations too.   If either was a normal selection for that year and model but just not an appealing combination, that doesn't make it an SO car.    It makes it a one of one perhaps, but not an SO car.      Deviations from standard offerings make an SO car.  ie:  contrasting laces,  maximum leather, contrasting bolsters, previous year color, etc.   

[m-mman]

GM put SO on a trim deviation data plate and today collectors may refer to these as 'special order' cars. However there are also other 'special order' codes and notations that exist on a particular vehicle's original ordering paperwork that a collector today would likely not see. (and therefore today they might not not refer to these vehicles as a special order)

On Mopars the invoice (2nd or 3rd copy of the window sticker) there is a notation that states "SOLD CAR" (yes commonly all caps) This means that a customer personally selected that particular car including all the options. (or non-options) This is an important designation for the dealer to recognize and note. It means that this car was specially ordered and upon arrival at the dealer it should NOT be placed on the lot. Instead somebody needs to find the salesman who (special) ordered it so that he can contact the customer and arrange delivery.

The word SOLD does not appear on the vehicle, it is only on the invoice. Some years it was on the window sticker.

FoMoCo cars have notations on their orders (now visible on a historical Marti report) that shows either "STOCK" or "RETAIL".  The word stock means that the dealer speced out a car that would appeal to a wide range of buyers OR the factory just put it together and just forced it on the dealer (without them ordering it). These cars would be placed on the lot and shown to anybody who walked in.

"RETAIL" meant that somebody ordered a special car that matched their tastes. (many of these retail cars are truly strange) Just like the SOLD cars discussed above, when it arrived at the dealer the customer needed to be called to arrange delivery.

The words STOCK or RETAIL do not appear on the car. Today, you can only guess based on the equipment.

Dealers do not like these special order cars. It means that there is something about them that would make them appeal to only a single buyer. They not only worry about completing the deal new BUT they also do not want to have it traded in 2-3 years after the sale because it will be equally hard to sell as a used car. I guarantee that no Cad dealer would want a new car with crank windows and no radio sitting on their lot. If a potential customer wanted a low cost Cadillac they would be steered to the pre-owned lot.

So, regardless of whether it is today shown as a 'SO' on the data plate, cars with unusual equipment were in fact special ordered when new and some notation existed somewhere on the paperwork when they were new.

[wrefakis]

SO on Cadillac trim tag denotes a non standard vehicle order
the exact special order would be only on the broadcast sheet for that vehicle

SOLD CAR would never be on factory paperwork as all cars with SO code are sold by virtue of order
Exception on Cadillac would be cars in factory use, and in some cases on SO car to executive of GM divisions or suppliers

SOLD CAR would never be on window sticker

dealers could care less about selling a stripped or crazy color car as long as it was paid for prior to order,or has a strong deposit

here is an SO build order for a car I owned,note that the SO was generated by preference for code 6 top
standard on series 62,not Eldo
any deviation from standard selection would be SO

Back in 70,s I had SO town cars and on if memory serves they were DSO codes,non standard paint cars came in with the bumper fillers in silver!

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

So, regardless of whether it is today shown as a 'SO' on the data plate, cars with unusual equipment were in fact special ordered when new and some notation existed somewhere on the paperwork when they were new.

One more time and it will be the last:

Within the context of this discussion, the definition of Special Order is clearly defined as an order outside the bounds of standard factory issue. Period. 

While it is true that the dealer was instructed to enter color & trim codes twice when odd or otherwise discordant schemes were selected (so the entry(ies) would not be construed as typographical errors on the ordering form submitted to the factory) - does not mean that cars so ordered fall into the category of "Special Order".

As Bill said, the dealer could not give a tinker's damn how the customer outfitted the car so long as the price of the car had been paid up front (or at least, a substantial non-refundable deposit was tendered in the event of failure of customer to pay final balance).

Dealer could not car less about what the car is worth come trade time either. All he does is adjust the trade in value accordingly. Furthermore, the dealer would've doubtlessly advised the customer of the consequences of a highly unorthodox order in the first place as well.  End of story on that count, not that it's even relevant anyway.

To try and redefine what "Special Order" means is pointless. It isn't going to change what is officially designated as Special Order by the Cadillac Motor Car Division and recognized by the Cadillac & LaSalle Club.

ericdev.

[m-mman]

To try and redefine what "Special Order" means is pointless. It isn't going to change what is officially designated as Special Order by the Cadillac Motor Car Division and recognized by the Cadillac & LaSalle Club.
ericdev.

Wow, a discussion to gain a further understanding of a relevant topic that is pointless? Hummm . . .
It seems like everything you have written about defining the terms 'special order' applies ONLY to color & trim deviations(?)

"official recognition by the CLC? " Hummm . . . where is that written? (FYI I have not read the 60s-70s authenticity manuals)

FYI - How does this apply to cars built in the 20s to 40s? I dont see anything about 'special order' in my in my 1929 authenticity book and they made a lot of trim deviations in those cars but SO is never on the build card.

[wrefakis]

for the record my remarks cover Cadillacs built from 1959 thru 1970 ,no clue what they did in 28

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Wow, a discussion to gain a further understanding of a relevant topic that is pointless? Hummm . . .
It seems like everything you have written about defining the terms 'special order' applies ONLY to color & trim deviations(?)

"official recognition by the CLC? " Hummm . . . where is that written? (FYI I have not read the 60s-70s authenticity manuals)

FYI - How does this apply to cars built in the 20s to 40s? I dont see anything about 'special order' in my in my 1929 authenticity book and they made a lot of trim deviations in those cars but SO is never on the build card.

Nobody ever said the topic of Special Order is necessarily limited trim & color only but this is not what is being discussed here.

My comments specifically concerned your assertion that, "1960s-70s Cads with crank windows or no A/C would be special order." And that statement has nothing to do with what they did in 1929.

[m-mman]

My comments specifically concerned your assertion that, "1960s-70s Cads with crank windows or no A/C would be special order." And that statement has nothing to do with what they did in 1929.

Ok that's fair . . .
Now maybe you can clarify your other comment?
". . . what is officially designated . . . and recognized by the Cadillac & LaSalle Club."

Because in 1929 the interior trim contained something called "Broad lace". It was a needlepoint type of decoration that appeared on the top if the door panels and back of the front seat.

I have attached a photo of it in my Town Sedan.
Town Sedans were not Fleetwood cars (they were Fisher bodied) so they would not have been as easy to special order. Interiors are very fragile and I am proud of mine. I have not seen another restored car that has correctly duplicated the Broadlace trim. There fore I would think that my used original interior would be recognized higher than a restored version(?)

But then when researching my build card I obtained a build car for another Town Sedan that shows "omit all lace" and "trim doors plain" (hopefully the scan shows up)

However this trim deviation does not appear on the firewall plate and the build card does not show the words "Special Order".

The authenticity manual doesnt seem to cover how this deviation would be evaluated. What would be the
"official recognition of the CLC"?  If somebody did not want to reproduce the correct broad lace and claimed that on their car had it originally omitted, how could it be proven?

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

I would not attempt to comment on what is deemed Special Order on any prewar Cadillac where the ordering process had been considerably more detailed and individualized.

As manufacturing had become more production-oriented and the number of individual models greatly reduced - many items that were Special Order in 1960 probably wouldn't have amounted to a radar blip in 1930.

[Richard Sills - CLC #936]

The reference to "CLC recognition" probably relates to whether CLC judges would make an authenticity deduction for a feature that deviated from what was offered by Cadillac in the model year of the car.  If the data plate indicates that the car was a special order, there should be no point deduction for the non-stock feature. 

I have seen the designation of "SO" on the data plate of a 1941 Cadillac painted a non-stock color.  But on my 1967 deVille convertible with a non-stock interior, the data plate showed "000" in the space reserved for the trim code.  I don't know at what point the designation changed from "SO" to "000" or some other code to indicate a non-standard choice.

Regarding optional equipment on a Cadillac, I agree with Eric that an unusual choice of options does not make the car a "special order" in the sense we are talking about.  Alan Haas told me that air conditioning became standard on Cadillacs as of the build date of January 1, 1974 -- so an early '74 Cadillac, or any prior year, could be ordered without A/C by simply declining the option.   

   

[Blade]

here is an SO build order for a car I owned,note that the SO was generated by preference for code 6 top
standard on series 62,not Eldo

Thought as long as color was available for other models it wasn't considered SO. Car 1193 exterior color 36, non- Eldo color, car is marked 'TRIM SO', not PAINT SO. Jim 'Quadfins' 1961 Coupe DeVille with Eldo PAINT also not SO.

TOP Code 6 = Buckskin = standard "62" top, car should NOT be SO.

Confused...

[wrefakis]

what is your question?

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Thought as long as color was available for other models it wasn't considered SO. Car 1193 exterior color 36, non- Eldo color, car is marked 'TRIM SO', not PAINT SO. Jim 'Quadfins' 1961 Coupe DeVille with Eldo PAINT also not SO.

TOP Code 6 = Buckskin = standard "62" top, car should NOT be SO.

Confused...

The TRIM code is absent meaning there is something different than the standard red leather was ordered for the car - if it did, you would see a TRIM code 29 but this is not the case here.

The Order could literally have been anything - such as something as minor as the color of the steering wheel grips that would have differed from the color the grips such as would have come with standard code #29 Red Leather interior on a 1959 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible.

Unfortunately in cases like this, the only evidence is usually the car itself and you would have to be familiar with all details of the standard #29 interior to determine what the special item(s) is/are.  And the interior would still need to be all original obviously: Remaining with the example of the steering wheel grips for the moment - if somebody replaced the steering wheel  at some point with one from a regular Code 29 interior, the nature of the special order item would have been lost. So the question is not always so simply answered even by an expert.

I also see your Data Plate has the telltale staples to which a paper card would have been attached indicating the special items unfortunately, 99% of the time this paper is long gone. Have you ordered the build sheet? Occasionally these special orders are noted there - you might get lucky.

I can see now why you might have assumed the car was special ordered because of the oddball color combination but this is not the reason.

In detective stories, it would be called a "red herring" - pardon the pun. 

**If you can post some interior pictures, it may well provide the answer.

[Blade]

Bill:

Car you owned was SO because had a Series 62 top color. The other two cars I mentioned (car 1193 and Jim's car) also had 'special colors' that were not available for those models yet they were not SO cars. Why the car your owned is SO but not the other two?