Why the club will die without people like fleetwood laurie

[wrefakis]

Enjoy!

[Dan LeBlanc]

My dream car is a 58 Sixty Special, black, black and white interior, with all the option boxes checked off.

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

My dream car has an automatic digital uplink to Facebook...
Sorry, I couldn't resist. 
C'mon Art!

\m/
Laurie

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

mint super low mile 70 or 69
have had or passed every one that has surfaced
just never found the one

she loves that old car its her dream, heck I have the same car with 18k miles untouched original, but triple black with cloth, sexy right ?
had a 5k mile 70 dvc also in bayberry for 25 years I almost threw up looking at it

I heard some guy in the south found 2 70's in an estate sale recently. A black FW with full red leather, 17K miles & a Spartacus blue DVC with white top & interior 11K miles. Both totally loaded. Glad they're not Bayberry!!

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

I cut laurie Fleetwood some slack because she has found her dream car, I never did

Allow me to rewrite your sentence for you  -
"I cut laurie Fleetwood some slack because she has found her dream car, I HAVEN'T YET"

\m/
Laurie

[quadfins]

mint super low mile 70 or 69
have had or passed every one that has surfaced
just never found the one


What model and color combination?

[Bill Young]

I remember well when an alcoholic friend of my parents ( there were more than one ) totaled his Silverpine Green 1968 Sedan DeVille 4 door hardtop square into a tree ( He had left our house at midnight , drunk the night he did it ). He then went to Valley Cadillac Rochester ,New York and bought a brand new Bayberry Green with the pale green interior and top 1970 DeVille Convertible and he drove from the dealership to our house to have a drink with my parents. I went out to the driveway and spent the next hour sitting in the drivers seat. I disliked the colors but I Loved the car and can smell the new leather and carpeting to this day. I was 15 and had Loved Cadillac's since the age of seven , a lifelong addiction.

[quadfins]

Excellent story, Bill.

My family was not one that could realistically consider a Cadillac (we had a Ford Falcon that caught fire in the middle of the night, on a remote road near Indio, CA, before there was Interstate .

But, in high school, one of my ROTC instructors had a blue 74 coupe de ville, with white vinyl top and white leather interior. Oh, that car exuded class and style, and really made a statement of success when he drove up. Real classy guy, too. I always wondered why his wife drove the Mercury Bobcat, but that Caddy is what provided my introduction to the world of Cadillac, and gave me respect and admiration for the marque. My best friends dad was a career master mechanic, and he always said Cadillacs were the best cars, due to there superior build quality.

Jim

[wrefakis]

Grew up dead broke family had no car first day of high school September 1968 first house right in front of school
san mateo red 69 sdv white top red leather too big for pre war garage walked past it every morning
took the long way to school so I could see more cadilacs

by the way one judged award car 67-70 non eldo?

[Big Fins]

Jim was asking about 'dream cars'!

I think if I had to dream, I'm going to dream about a car few and far between. Yes, a '59 Eldorado Convertible, or an Eldorado Brougham is cool, but he did say DREAM CAR.

I'll keep it all Cadillac and say a 1931 452A, V-16.

Next in line would be a Duesenberg Model J LeBaron or a
1930 Packard 745 Deluxe Eight.

In fact, if I can, I'll dream about all three! 

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

Grew up dead broke family had no car first day of high school September 1968 first house right in front of school
san mateo red 69 sdv white top red leather too big for pre war garage walked past it every morning
took the long way to school so I could see more cadilacs

by the way one judged award car 67-70 non eldo?

The majority grow up dead broke, its why we appreciate the nice things we work for.
So what exactly is your dream car??? That 69 SDV?

I'm blessed (sorry Art), I have my dream car. But if I hit the lottery, The Ark gets a sexy foreign girlfriend,
and her last name will be McLaren. 

\m/
Laurie

[Scot Minesinger]

Think I'm driving my dream car now, a red 1970 DeVille Convertible in just the right condition, optimal not too nice that you cannot drive and enjoy it, and presentable enough everyone thinks it is perfect at a glance.  Plus it is restored, so no guilt in driving it.  All the options and features I want are added; Fleetwood rocker moldings, full tastefully done gauges and options I want such as tilt, trunk release, auto-head light turn on when it gets dark, and of course all then normal Cadillac goodies.

Although my absolute dream car five years ago would be a 1962 Cadillac convertible in black with tan interior with 1961 fins, 1961 front end, 1961 EB stainless trim from front to back, 1961 EB upholstery pattern, and modern safety and convenience features.  I'm less about stuff now and very content with what I have.

[cadillacmike68]

Excellent story, Bill.

...But, in high school, one of my ROTC instructors had a blue 74 coupe de ville, with white vinyl top and white leather interior. Oh, that car exuded class and style, and really made a statement of success when he drove up. Real classy guy, too. I always wondered why his wife drove the Mercury Bobcat, but that Caddy is what provided my introduction to the world of Cadillac, and gave me respect and admiration for the marque. My best friends dad was a career master mechanic, and he always said Cadillacs were the best cars, due to there superior build quality.

Jim

I have the reverse of that story.  Back when I was an Army ROTC cadet college in the early 80s, at the end of a field exercise, I gave the keys to my triple black 1970 Fleetwood Brougham to one of instructors, a Captain, so he could meet us at the end of the exercise so I I wouldn't have to walk a couple miles to it. He was so impressed, that within a month, he had bought an emerald green 1971 or 72 DeVille. 

On the club demographics, the average member age isn't getting any younger. I'm young compared to most and I've been a member for 21 years. And the paid membership is essentially flatlined (possible rising, but not by much at all). Just in my region we've had 3 r 4 passings in the past year. If we don't get younger members then this organization will fade. And denigrating folks who want to modify their cars will not help.

I don't know how we keep this alive. The problems that I see are that you have the Facebook people (I am the same as above. Only cars and airplanes for me. No pictures posted and  nothing about what I ate for breakfast). Social media is all free. There isn't the wealth of knowledge that there is here. In some ways it does more harm than good because people who have no idea what they are talking about are giving advice. But, that is the accepted media now a days-Forums are old school. Also Facebook is free. I don't mind paying my dues here and I love the magazine but why pay for the cow when you can get the milk for free?
The youth of today doesn't want to take the time to learn anything by doing. They just want to know the answer right now.
Youth of today is also all about computers, not machinery. What do you mean vacuum adjusts your climate control?? Doesn't the computer do that? My kids have gone to 2 different high schools and neither one of them had a shop class.  We, myself included, also are not very welcoming to those who want to modify their cars. Just look at how the judging is and how some poor new guy is blown up because he wants to put an Edelbrock on (because some Yahoo on Facebook told him to) and now it won't run.
We are a pretty close group of people who have at least adjusted points once or twice. I hope this group never goes away.
Please don't misunderstand me. This is not in any way a criticism of this group. Just how I see things. Not saying this to tick anyone off. Just saying it because hopefully someone smarter than me can come up with a way to fix it.
Jeff

Jeff, why???

So I'm facing excommunication for putting a stand up hood ornament, a chrome alternator, stainless braided Climate Control lines and functioning hose clamps, etc. This is why I've been staying away from GNs.

[D.Smith]

I think there is confusion over the difference between modifying, customizing and upgrading.

The only similarity is that all of them can get you points deducted in judging. 

If you have three 66 Broughams and one is bone stock, one has Hankook radial tires and the other has all its chrome removed, door handles shaved off, etc. 

Clearly they each can't get the same score in judging.    The one that is bone stock should win as the owner kept it that way or took the time to research and find the NOS parts or maybe it is a barn find and 100% original.

Upgrading:   A lot can fall into this category.   Radial tires, electronic ignition, disc brakes added, etc.

Customizing:   An added hood ornament, opera lights, accent striping, wire wheels or wheel covers.

Modified:    Shaving off tail fins or door handles, radically altering the car as designed.

You have to have a benchmark or standard to judge against.   Which for just about all clubs is an authenticity manual.

If an owner decides to upgrade, customize or modify their car they should understand it deviates from the benchmark.  So if you want to be judged against cars that haven't deviated from stock they will get dinged in points deducted. 

Having a separate Modified class for judging is certainly a compromise.   Just as a Touring Class was added for the members who prefer to drive their cars more and thus want some safety features added or modern upgrades. 

I was very happy to see a caravan of restored and modernized 30s and 40s Cadillacs arrive at the DC Grand National.   They were gorgeous.  Reliable and comfortable for touring with modern running gear and A/C in some.     

I think where some of us draw the line is when we see rare cars like an Eldorado Brougham cut up and made into something different.     That is like buying the Mona Lisa and painting over it to recreate dogs playing poker.

Clubs do need new members, especially young ones.   Yes some of them have different visions.    Hopefully they will see the beauty of keeping a car as built can be just as satisfying as those TV shows that want to modify and make a killing at Barrett-Jackson or MECUM auctions. 

Laurie has resurrected that 70 Fleetwood and gone to great lengths and cost to find the right parts to bring it back to its glory.    As many of us have done.     We come here not just for the fellowship, but to get information. 

Being told that we can't share negative feedback due to archaic rules is counter productive.  Many of us have wasted a lot of time and money using vendors that we shouldn't have.  Most that could have been avoided if members on this board didn't have their hands tied.   

"Follow the rules and all will be well" is not leading with an open mind.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

On the club demographics, the average member age isn't getting any younger. I'm young compared to most and I've been a member for 21 years. And the paid membership is essentially flatlined (possible rising, but not by much at all). Just in my region we've had 3 r 4 passings in the past year. If we don't get younger members then this organization will fade. 

You keep saying that but has it ever occurred to you that the "problem" as you define it has nothing whatsoever to do with CLC policy - judging or otherwise?

For example, according to a recent poll, 20% of millennials report having no friends. Let that sink in for a moment, then ask yourself how is possible to lure younger members into the ranks when we're dealing with a significant percentage who have effectively cut themselves off from the world of human interaction.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-millenials-no-friends-yougov-poll-20190804-ek5odkrxmvbfhex7ytvp2p6rwy-story.html

That is only one example; there may well be other explanations too innumerable to count - the vast majority of which are far beyond the CLC's ability to control. 


Raw numbers alone do not tell the story and it is folly to presume they are necessarily ascribable to any one cause - good or bad and "bigger" does not equate to better. In my experience, the reverse is far more likely.

“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing it, then applying the wrong remedies.” ― Groucho Marx.

[Caddyholic]

Although my absolute dream car five years ago would be a 1962 Cadillac convertible in black with tan interior with 1961 fins, 1961 front end, 1961 EB stainless trim from front to back, 1961 EB upholstery pattern, and modern safety and convenience features.  I'm less about stuff now and very content with what I have.
[/quote]

Scott why would take 1962 and add all the 1961 stuff to it? Just get a 1961 and add 1962 dual master cylinder to it

[chrisntam]

snip...
I'm less about stuff now and very content with what I have.

Yeah, we all know you secretly pine for a nice, fully optioned '70 Fleetwood Brougham.



I kinda do, but no place to put it.

[wrefakis]

my 2 70 convert owners that poked me for chasing the impossible, I admit it
I have forever wanted that one of a kind mint cadi
if I was a normal size guy I could buy a 67 maroon 427/435 perfect car in the time it took to write this post
just always liked certain year Cadillacs

my castoffs have one more trophies at grand nationals than anyone.
Content ? 100% that's why I leave my 19 escalades and xts in the yard and drive my 379k mile 05 town car

final word you had in classP-22 GN this year a total of one car that won.
one!
out of 4 years production close to 800k or so cars, one car judged that covered all 4 years,
trust me club needs people to turn out even if they are kooks!

PS. its been fun and if that freak car ever did turn up, I  will buy!
cheers fans!

[Scot Minesinger]

Answers:

I don't care for the 1961 back section tail lights and trunk.  So OK take a 1961 and change the back of it to a 1962, but I think it would be easier to use a 1962 and change out front clip and weld fins of a 1961 in then to try and modify a 1961 with 1962 tail section.  I would want the 1962 cornering lights and dual mc.  It does not matter anyway because if one turned up at a good price, I do not have time, enthusiasum, or space to deal with it.

On young people today, as I have written before if you don't think they are good for our future, blame yourself.  The average age on this forum is about late 50's and kids would be late teens to early thirties.  My kids 20, 22, and 24 are awesome, know the value of hard work, dollar and etc.

On a 1970 FWB, same answer as above - no time, space, or serious interest right now.  Although it is certainly an awesome car.

Being happ 

[cadillacmike68]

You keep saying that but has it ever occurred to you that the "problem" as you define it has nothing whatsoever to do with CLC policy - judging or otherwise?

For example, according to a recent poll, 20% of millennials report having no friends. Let that sink in for a moment, then ask yourself how is possible to lure younger members into the ranks when we're dealing with a significant percentage who have effectively cut themselves off from the world of human interaction.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-millenials-no-friends-yougov-poll-20190804-ek5odkrxmvbfhex7ytvp2p6rwy-story.html

That is only one example; there may well be other explanations too innumerable to count - the vast majority of which are far beyond the CLC's ability to control. 


Raw numbers alone do not tell the story and it is folly to presume they are necessarily ascribable to any one cause - good or bad and "bigger" does not equate to better. In my experience, the reverse is far more likely.

“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing it, then applying the wrong remedies.” ― Groucho Marx.

So you and Art can have a club of two.