1980's Hess & Eisenhardt Eldorado Convertibles

[Chip Hodges #20536]

I have always been very fond of the 1983 through 1985 Eldorado convertibles, but have stayed away due to the infamous HT4100 engine.  Lately I have been giving some thought to a pre HT4100 Eldorado Hess & Eisenhardt conversion of that body style.  I am looking for any opinions or information regarding the H & E conversions pro or con.  Also, does the CLC consider the H & E conversions to be modified, or would it be eligible for judging at a CLC event?  Thanks

[Davidinhartford]

H&E has always been the premier coachbuilder.   They built many of the Presidential limousines and secret service cars.     Their best known retail convertibles were the 78-82 Le Cabriolets.  They also made a limited number of Eldorado convertibles.   Many prefer the styling of the H&E Eldos over the ASC ones.   You can see that the H&E eldos retain the factory bodylines at the rear quarter glass.  The ASC Eldorados (1984 & 85) had a cut down rear quarter to fit their roof.    The best would be a 1980 or 81 H&E convertible like this red one up on Ebay right now.   



Above:  H&E car.
Below:  ASC car.

[okccadman]

There appear to be 2 different cars in those pics.  The 3rd one looks like a "factory" ASC Biarritz convertible

[Chip Hodges]

The H & E Eldorado on Ebay looks beautiful.  I do not dislike the color but I think it looks too red to be original.  I must admit that I prefer the lines of the H & E conversion, as well as the clean appearance without the Biarritz moldings.

[Chip Hodges]

Yes, the third one is an ASC conversion.  I believe that David placed it there so that I could have it for a side by side comparison to the H & E Eldorado.

[76eldo]

I purchased a 1980 Hess & Eisenhardt a couple of years ago.

It came from a dealer in upstate NY, but was originally owned and ordered by a wealthy real estate developer right here in Phila.

It's the little cousin to my 76 Eldorado convertible in the same colors, black and red.

The 368 cast iron motor in the 80 Eldorado gives the car a more traditional heavier feel than the later ASC conversions from 84 and 85, which all have the HT4100 drivetrain.

The H & E cars tend to be made from base Eldorados, not the Biarritz, although I have seen a few that were the Touring Coupes.

Fit and finish of the rear quarter interior areas are a bit better on the ASC cars, but the tradeoff for the HT4100 and the rarity of the H & E makes the 1980-81 a much better choice, in my opinion.

Regarding the photos above, the RED H & E is a little too red to be an original color (I think), and has later hubcaps on it, if it's a 1980.

I hope you fine a nice one.  Production estimates are about 100 or less in each year, VS 2300 in 84 and another 2300 in 85.

Good luck,

Brian

PS...  Since these photos were taken, I put a set of Vogue's on it with a set of NOS wire caps.  Really made a huge difference.

[Davidinhartford]

Correct.  I added that 3rd pic of the ASC version for a comparison to the H&E car.   You can see the difference in the rear quarter window style between the two.

That is the correct red on that 1981.   It is a non-metallic bright red.  I've seen several in that color.   I believe it is Saxony Red.

The 84 is Autumn Maple Firemist, a nice darker metallic red.

Brian,  1981 Eldorados had many small changes over the 1980s.   The newer type wire wheel covers for example.  79 & 80 used the older type.  81 & up had the new type with red centers.   The bodyside moldings were higher up on the sides (which this car is missing. removed during the conversion perhaps) and the door pulls (interior) and horn pad were new.   And the grille of course.    If you look on Ebay right now they have a ton of pics of that 81 shown.

PS:   Brian, the bodyside moldings on your car are actually mounted up higher than a factory 80 Eldo.   I wonder if H&E did that?

[76eldo]

My car was repainted at some point, so maybe they were re-installed incorrectly.

The grille in mine was replaced with an NOS one when it was painted, and it's really nice.

My 85 has a RR grilles, but I have 2 mint stock ones put aside for the future.

Always liked the bigger "Ben Hur" style wire caps on the 79/80's.

Brian

[Davidinhartford]

Brian,  It could just be that by the time H&E was done with your car they saw previews for the 81s and mounted the mouldings up higher to keep the car "current" with the soon to be released 81s.

PS:   Brian, go look at ebay item number 220640693256.    The seller says it is a 1982 Eldorado convertible.   It has 1979 front parking lamps, a 1982 dash that he painted all the chrome black to look like the dash of an 84-85, plus installed the lower exterior moldings from a Touring coupe.   The fake fender vents are from a Lincoln Mark VI, The third brake lamp is from a 86 LeBaron convertible.  Rear side markers from a 73 Eldorado. And even more shocking is he found a pair of 79-85 Eldorado "Export" rear lamps with amber signals!

[76eldo]

He also turned it into a Biarritz, painted the front air dam white, and put on some Lincoln style lower body molding.

Like Sinatra, he did it "His Way".

Doesn't do it for me, but someone may purchase this "Classic" and love it.

Brian

[Otto Skorzeny]

That car looks like crap. The funny thing about the 3rd brake light is that it's probably not visible with that hokey spare in the way. Do you think it started out as an H&E or is this a hack job?

[76eldo]

Looking at the top in the semi open position, it's exactly like the one on my 80 H & E, and so is the upholstery mods on the back seat arm rest areas.

It's can't be a Biarritz, AND a Touring Coupe, but it has Biarritz trim on the front fenders, doors, and quarters.  It has Biarritz seating, but also appears to have the center console like a Touring Coupe, so it's very confusing. The boot that came with my car does not have all those snaps on it either.

I took a real beating around here for bashing a "restorable" car that someone posted pics of a while back that I thought was way beyond repair, so I am not saying anything about anyone's taste or self expression other than to say i like my cars stock, and wouldn't put all of that junk on it.  Even the pics of my car, someone put gold hood and trunk emblems on it.  As soon as i get around to it, they are coming off and some NOS chrome ones are going on it.

It's also about half the price I paid for mine, but it's a 4100 car... so keep an extra five grand around for an engine at some point.

It would be a nice car for a bit less money, and then buy an 80 Eldo donor car and change out the drivetrain completely, in my opinion.

Brian

[Davidinhartford]

It's possible that it started out as a real Biarritz that H&E turned into a convertible.   Definately NOT a real Touring Coupe.   No doubt he replaced the amber front signals to look like the newer 83-85 clear ones by buying a set from a 79 which are also clear.   But the 79s have a one piece bezel, not separated into two sections like the later lenses.  Thats a dead give-away those are 79 lenses.    Plus he painted over all the chrome dash trim in black like the 84-85 Eldo dashboards.  But the smaller radio gives away its vintage.

I'd pull off all that white Touring Coupe trim and repaint that front air dam black so you don't see it.   The Lincoln fake vents have to go as well.   The 73 Eldo rear markers?    I kinda like them.  But I would have mounted them a bit lower I think.  But that's just my opinion.  Someone else may love it just the way it is.  At least one person did.   Much like Brian, I prefer my cars as close to stock as possible.   Although I must confess my 1980 Eldorado had the heavy chrome pimp grille and hang-on continental kit tire.   

Those European tailights are as rare as hens teeth!  I wonder where he got them?     The only Eldos with them here in the States were the newer 89-91 Eldorado ETCs, and those used a different type of lamp.  The only 79-85s I've seen with them were forsale on Ebay.UK

[Davidinhartford]

I have a ton of photos uploaded here -->  http://www.flickr.com/groups/1290684@N25/pool/

of more custom Cadillac convertibles by H&E, ASC, Global coach,  ACC and more.

[Steven Hebden]

here's my 81 H&E with 50k on the clock. stripping to bare metal and repaint, new interior and roof on the way.

not 100% clear on sig name rules. need to read. post my name anyway
steven hebden

[slimwhitman]

I have seen a few H&E Eldorados that started life as Biarritz.  These were ordered by Cadillac dealers, so H&E would chop the top off any Eldorado model the dealer wanted.  I don’t know what was part of the Biarritz package, but if a big item was a sunroof, then most buyers would opt for a non-Biarritz car to convert to save the money and not buy a sunroof equipped car (so the sunroof would get tossed with the rest of the top).

I have also been amazed to have seen many ’84-85 H&E convertibles.  There were still buyers that preferred the H&E conversion over the new “factory” ASC conversion.

Also know that H&E converted the related Riviera and Toronado into convertibles.
Also know that ASC was converting Eldorados into convertibles as early as 1979 for dealers (these were not “factory authorized” until ’84).
Another source for conversion info is:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coach_convertible

I think this particular Eldorado is the prettiest one I have ever seen.  The 2-tone is stunning.  Converted by Global Coach. 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1981-CADILLAC-ELDORADO-CONVERTIBLE-Must-See-/250684930387?pt=US_Cars_Trucks

[jakpak123]

I recently purchased a 1980 Cadillac Eldorado Convertible. I will need to chech who in fact did the conversion. I am haveing some upholstery work done on it but will check on the converter. I have a question about the 368 cu 6.0 motor. It needs to be tweaked with the timing but the timing tab is missing. I neeed a timing tab or timing cover with rab attached. Do you have any ideas?

[Davidinhartford]

This sure looks like it could be an H&E conversion.

1984 Eldorado.  currently on Ebay.   Item number: 280557977995







http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rare-Coachbuilt-Convertible-/280557977995?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item41528f018b

[bcroe]

Those cars look so good, any changes are a subtraction.  Too bad so many had drive train problems; probably the 1980 368 is the best.  My 79 has totally revised suspension, 403 engine, 67 Cad switch pitch trans, and stainless steel pipes.  And no fakey wire wheel covers.  Bruce Roe