1939 Cadillac (Series 6119F)

[Yates Milton]

I have just sent in my application for membership in the CLC. I have purchased a 1939  Cadillac 4 Dr. Sedan which is disassembled.
It is a Series 6119F which has the partition between the front and back seat. I recently found information that only 30 were produced with the
partition. I am just finishing a 1923 Durant Touring and need any information available on the 1939 Cadillac (Series 6119F).
Thanks

Yates Milton

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Hi Yates,
Welcome to the club & congratulations on buying a very rare car.  Does the car have side mounts? If you post a picture or give the info on the data plate, we can tell you what the numbers mean. I'm not sure if the club has an authenticity manual for 1939. I would suggest getting a shop manual & a Fisher body manual. I'm sorry to say there is probably very little other info on the basic 1939 61 car & probably none regarding a division window car. My guess is that your division window set up is similiar to a 39 60S. There are several people on this board that own 39 61 cars. Hopefully they can help you.
HTH, Bob

[Yates Milton]

Hi Bob,
Thanks for the reply... I will post the information from the data plate soon.  The car is completely disassembled, so pictures probably will not help at this point. The car does not have sidemounts..  I bought the car from a man who has had the car since 1983. He purchased it from a gentleman in Ashland, Virginia. Have loved and been involved in the old car hobby for 60 years. At 76 this no doubt will be my last restoration.  Gave my son a 47 Cadillac 2 Dr Conv. on his 16th birthday.  Hope he will finish it soon.  Has had it disassemble for over 30 years.

Thanks again....

Yates Milton

[Yates Milton]

Could use help on determining what trim ,color, etc., was used on this 39 Cadillac:

                                         DATA PLATE
                          STYLE 396119
                          BODY  872
                          TRIM   42
                          PAINT  51
   ENGINE # 8291396

  Thanks

  Yates

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Yates,
I almost hesitate to mention this but...
Your data plate should say 6119F & the body # should be from 1 to 30.


51 is black.
42 is tan plain cloth.
The engine #  appears to be original.
Does the front seat seem to "match" the rest of the interior??
Can you see where it actually  was bolted to your cars  "B" pillars?
Let us know.
HTH, Bob

[Yates Milton]

Hi Bob,
Just received an email from the previous owner and he stated that the division partition was original. He stated "Anyway, I am sure it was a factory install because it had the original upholstery, and my friend with a 39-75series verified it as well as the previous owner." Wish other members would kick in and post something that would help.  After rechecking the DATA PLATE information previously posted is correct.
Thanks for your help.,... By the looks of your membership number 96 you have been a Cadillac enthusiast for quite sometime.
Hope the members will visit wwwdurantmotors.org. as they also have a great website. Quite a few people do not know that Billy Durant founded GM
and was responsible for Cadillac being in the original group. Check especially the Photograph Section.

Keep in touch....

Yates Milton

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Yates,
Yes, I've been a member a long time. I like to use my knowledge & reference books to help people. I especially enjoy  mysteries like yours. The real proof would be to get an invoice on the car. It costs $50. Go to the CLC home page. There should be a link to authenticate your car. Let's see what it says.
HTH, Bob

[Yates Milton]

Hi Bob,
Sorry I'm late getting back to you...Will try to see what the authenication experts say later.  Need to compile more infromation before I send it in.
The materials do match (What is left of it) Wish I had a picture of what the partition looked like on other vehicles.  Plan to submit photos if I can learn how. Thanks again.

Yates Milton

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Yates,
I thought you'd have the invoice by now. LOL
You only need 2 things to get it. The correct VIN from the frame & 50 bucks.
HTH, Bob

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Yates,
I have a question. You keep calling this a partition. Is it a piece of glass that goes down into the back of the seat by cranking a handle mounted on the seat back  or some pieces of glass that slide horizontally in a track?
Bob

[Yates Milton]

Back in May I had a post requesting information on a 39 Cad 6119f. Bob Hoffman CLC #96 was the only one that replied. The data plate did not have the f designation meaning it did not have the Imperial Division (partition or divider seperating front seat from the rear as found in the Series 75).
After a check with GM Archives, by my wife, the lady stated she had never seen a Build Sheet that mentioned the divider or Imperial Division. According to the spec. manual there were only 30 made.
I hopefully have attached photos showing the division glass and panel. Found out my application didn't make it through the online request, so I have re-applied and this time did receive confirmation that it was received. The original material, what is left, was found on the panels.
Someone must have a picture or knowledge of how the Imperial Division (divider) looked.
Were there any other Cadillac factories other than in Detroit

[Steve Passmore]

I almost hate to say this Yates and I don't wish to offend but the division looks home made, I have a 37 Imperial with division and its nothing like that, much more finesse, hard to believe it would be more crude in a later car but what do I know?  would pictures of mine help?

[Yates Milton]

I agree that it does look homemade from the picture, but upholstery material on the division matches original seat and that on door panel. I would be very interested in photos. Can't think Cadillac would have made any thing like that either.   Thanks for your response.

Yates

[Steve Passmore]

The true test is whether you have the standard sedan front bench seat behind there, it does look as if the division was made curved to accommodate the larger sedan bench actually. The true division cars have a seat much flatter and built into the division itself and cannot be removed as a separate entity.
It wouldn't have been impossible for someone in your cars earlier life to have matched the seat material if the division was built later, I have trimmed many cars and have had to match up to the original materials, or it could have had a complete re-trim maybe? Let me know if you need more detailed pictures.

[Yates Milton]

Thanks for the pictures. I think you are right.  It sure is hard to find literature on the 61 Series.
The shop manual I have mentions the 6119f ( Imperial Division) and the 6119a (sunshine turret top).
Thanks for the help and I will keep all informed of any changes or discoverys.

Yates

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Yates,
Steve is correct. It's homemade.
Bob