64 caddy Ebay Bad Deal- Need Advice-beware

[Jack Miller]

Hi,

The Ebay motors people want me not to communicate with the seller for now.
They are in the middle.
If I have to and the seller doesnt answer, I will see if I can sell the rights to this as a parts car with no title to get my shipping money back.

[Tom Hall 7485]

Mr. Miller, before you do anything drastic with the car, consider the fuzzy ownership issue.  Whose car is it right now?  You refuse to pay for it and you are attempting to reject the shipment following initial acceptance of delivery.    

You have possession of a car you dont wish to keep, and which you maintain doesnt belong to you.  That means you shouldnt do anything with the car that prejudices the rights of the person you maintain should be taking the car back, Mr. Seller.  So lets forget about having the car towed away as junk for the time being.  You have a duty to use reasonable care to protect the car while the dispute is being resolved, and to obey your local parking laws.  You did, after all, request that the car be delivered to you, and you did let the transport company unload the car.  Seller consented to transport his car to you, so his theft accusation should ultimately fail.  However, his theft accusation may be defamation of your reputation.  

In this sort of situation you can ask the seller for storage, but dont hold your breath.  There is no contract for you to receive a storage fee.

You need to wait and see what eBay says.  Youve heard what PayPal said.

I personally wouldnt bet $3,000 on a PayPal customer service rep knowing anything.  When I forgot my PayPal password several years ago and tried by myself to get it online, PayPal accused me of attempting to tamper with someone elses account!

By the way, are you a CLC member?  I dont see you in NY in my rather obsolete 2005 directory.

[Jack Miller]

Hi Tom,

Please call me Jack, I know my responsibilities towards this car and I really am just stuck with it in my driveway for over 2 weeks with no response from the seller and I am frustrated with it.
Ebays auto service called the seller numerous times and the seller will not return any calls and he will not answer safeharbor or Ebays customer service.
I cannot even move this car as it doesnt run and has no brakes.
As I said, I went to the police today and they said that I have nothing to worry about regarding my reputation or legal matters since he released it and his friend shipped it.

Jack

[kerry]

jack; Welcome to the Clubbed. I recently purchased a car over eSlay and was also duped. NOTHING in the written description advertised matched the actual car. The gearbox arrived with no reverse while the seller (a dealer) claimed "it was working fine when it left". The tranny fluid was burnt black...it couldnt have been operational. Someone did The River Dance on the hood, the carpet looked like someone urinated on it and on and on. The mileage advertised was clearly bogus.  I think your best recourse is to get an attorney- a bulldog, in the sellers same county and sue him for fraud. if Im reading correctly you didnt buy it ON eslay so, you have no recourse there. I did what Im suggesting and within a month I have a settlement offer for more than I paid... less attorneys fees. Let your attorney handle sending the car back. Sadly, there are many sharks surfing that bay....

[Jack Miller]

Kerry,

I did get it on Ebay

Jack

[art woody]

Toms comments are precisely why I would give him 30 days (a very reasonable time) to have his car picked up. Once it is in a junkyard / tow company impound it will be out of your hands. They will not release it without storage paid, as they have legal policies in place to put the car up for sale or crush it. You would have a hard time collecting anything from him. He agreed to let his car go on a trip to the east coast on your dollars, now its up to him to ship it back. Call his bluff.  Once its in the impound lot , hell have to settle with them separately regardless of what ebay or paypal does with your matter.

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

I agree, seeing asa the Title is not in your own name.

But, would the Storeage Yard accept it for storeage without a Title?

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

[Jack Miller]

Art,

I heard from Ebays security today. The seller told them that he will accept nothing less than $2,000.00 for the car and he will not relist it and ship it from here. I told them forget it.
I personally do not think that the car is worth it.
If I paid him $2,000.00 + $1,200.00 shipping I would have $3,200.00 into this car.
If the chassis was good I might think about it.
I would not have the heart to sell it to anyone except for parts or a parts car.
I would have to pay someone to strip it down and then Ebay the parts.
A lot of work just to get my money back, if I could. I guess that a soft top frame is worth something.
Can I legally put a car into storage that is not mine? In a court (if that came up) would I be responsible for this? Or are you trying a scare technique?

Thanks
Jack

[JIM CLC # 15000h]

11-13-06
Jack m. My advise, for all its worth, is to inquire about abandon cars. I use to live in a city where the police would pick-up any car reported abandoned and seal it at auction.
Good Luck,JIM

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Jack,

Seeing as there has been some interactivity between the Seller and Ebay Security, it can now be noted that the Seller has accepted some liability, and therefore has left himself wide open for future actions.

I personally believe that once you accepted the vehicle by having it unloaded from the transporter, you are responsible for the safe-keeping of it until the finalisation, or settlement of the whole affair.

You cannot legally report it as an abandoned vehicle, without going through the legalities of having the seller accept that he still owns it,(which he has by his response to Ebay), and has been given sufficient time to remove it from your address, and this can be done by Certified Mail, similar to a Summons, as he has to sign for it to be given it, and it is then up to him whether he reads it or not, but as he wont realise what he is receiving, till he opens it up.   Once you have received Postal Notification that he has been served with it, you will be able to proceed.

Depending on how you write the contents of the Certified Letter, of which you keep a copy, then he has that time to do something.  

Once the time is up, and it must be reasonable time, then you, I believe, can apply to a Justice to legally dispose of it.   Here, that disposal must be advertised in the Local Newspapers, and you can retain the costs involved to you, then return the excess to the owner.  (I am not aware of your Legal System but that is how we can do it here in Australia)

I have been involved with Abandoned Vehicles for years, having been a Police Officer, and Authorities will not remove abandoned vehicles from Private Property, as that is a civil matter.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

P.S.   You can legally put anything into Storeage, but you would be responsible for all the costs involved in transporting, storeage, and eventual disposal.   The Storeage Companies are in the job to make money, not be stuck with junk they cant move.

[larry Savino]

How about a link to the ebay advertizement to see the listing and the seller feedback

[Jack Miller]

Bruce,

Thanks-- more food for thought, but I need more difinitave local laws.

Jack

[Jack Miller]

Hi Jim,

If I did that would I still owe the seller the money?
Or..........do I have to send a certified letter first, then do that?
I will also loose my $1,200.00 and have nothing.
If I send a letter, the seller does nothing and I pull a few parts off the car to get my money back, then call the police, can this work?

Thanks
Jack

[Jack Miller]

Bruce,

I wish I knew if I did all of that and the seller still does not remove the car, can I put a legal notice up and sell the whole car cash to a local vintage Cadillac parts house to part out?
I can then send the seller a money order for the difference on top of my costs.
I wonder if that would be legal.

Jack

[Jack Miller]

Larry,

I appreciate your concern but there is a possibility of just one person happening to be looking here that is not a nice person like all of you that have been helping me.
What happens if then he forwards all of these suggestions to the seller and the seller decides to sue the website?
I would rather keep the seller in the dark on these suggestions and keep this site out of any harms way.
Everyone here has always helped me and I do not want anyone hurt here besides me and I hope to fix that and get my $1,200.00 back too.

Jack

[Tom Hall 7485]

Generally, the content of settlement negotiations is inadmissable to prove liability, so the fact that Seller has engaged in settlement discussions via a mediator cannot be admitted as proof of his liability.  If it were otherwise, no one would enter settlement negotiations.

You can do some of your own legal research by going to http://www.findlaw.com/casecode. TARGET=_blank>www.findlaw.com/casecode.  I suggest you start with Washington statutes, especially their commercial code and, if seller isnt on the title, their vehicle code.

And, if you havent joined the Cadillac and La Salle Club yet, please do.

[Art Woody]

Legally , every car in possesion of a scrap yard, or your yard or where ever, must have legal paper work. Since you do not have legal papers it is not yours, its on property that is yours. Legal notification to owner, prior to towing to impound as a threat, still gets that process documented and underway. That gives you time to decide direction and how much further you want to take this. If it ends up in impound, the towing co. will take the steps by public notice for retrieval of fees or sale at auction. They have legal means to have new paper work through statutes similar to "mechanics lien", etc. Its true that you must take reasonable care of his property since you agreed to have it unloaded and placed it on your property, but he only has a reasonable time to retrieve it. Same goes with the tow company. My daughter had a truck I gave her for graduation from the military academy towed from her apartment complex (HER APARTMENT COMPLEX!)while attending UCF in Florida.  While on 6 weeks duty with National Guard,  the apartment manager spotted the truck with expired Tennessee tags. By the time she found out where her truck was, the storage had eaten the replacement value. This was just after 9/11, when military was on high alert. I had the keys, the title, even a new tag, if I had the chance to drive off in it and take it back to TN, I could have been charge with stealing tow co. property.

[Dave Leger CLC# 19256]

Just my 2 cents here.  Since there was no clause about buyer acceptance, or return in the Ebay listing, I think you are stuck.  I think youre legally obligated for the shipping and the purchase price.  I do think you have grounds to sue for misrepresentation, but as you said, thats not cheap when having to get legal help in the sellers state.  Im sorry to hear this guy pulled this on you.

Dave

[larry Savino]

I think I understand your thinking on this But as long as you speak the facts then you would not be liable for a law suit. Its when the facts or non truths are brought out then you have a liability suit.

I wanted to see the advertisement to see if he was forth coming with information. Also depending on what his advertisement says as for the finality of the purchase, then believe it or not you may have a contract you have to fulfill.

I am an eBay buyer and and eBay seller.And I dont think most folks realize when they are purchasing an item that its for good. In other words do your due diligence long before you place that bid, as once you bid your agreeing to purchase the product.

Copy and paste his description from the advertisement here.

I am not trying to stir the pot but its always best to get the facts first. I understand you may be the most honest guy in the world,If I was the seller I would be pursuing you for theft of services, You cannot pay for an item then cancel the payment of it after you have received the item

[Jack Miller]

Dave,

Ebays auto protection is supposed to protect you up to a $20,000.00 loss (towing included).
But since I havent paid for the car they are jusy trying to medieate it, they said that this is a first in this type of a case for them.
If I paid for the car there was a 75percent chance of me getting all of my money returned because of misrepresentation.
If I am a restaurant and I order a steak and the waitress brings me an order of cheese fries instead, am I stuck with the bill of a steak and I have to eat the cheese fries?
Thats what I have here.
I guess that the tip will have to be my towing loss.

Jack