Water pump identification

[Lexi]

The spacer is mentioned in the Authenticity Manual on page III-1 but unclear as to what pulley they were used on. I only saw them on the squat fatboys, (non-AC). Clay/Lexi

[Caddyholic]

Caddyholic,
 What style of pump is on your '62? Can you see if it's got the extra passage on the front with the heater return port just below the thermostat on the right side?  Or does yours have the return port just above the lower radiator hose?
 I guess unless someone has a listing of casting numbers and applications, this is just passing in the wind. But it would be nice to know what this stuff is supposed to fit.

 Rick

 I will look tomorrow.

[Cadman-iac]

 Great, thank you very much,
  Rick

[Lexi]

Checked my 1956 MPL and under Group 6.0020 there is a listing titled; "Spacer, Fan Blade", part number 134 6795. This part was only listed for 1956. So I checked my 1957 MPL and found both a listing for a 1956 as well as a 1957 spacer-both bearing different part numbers. So something is different about them. They were intended for non-AC cars the notation further noted, (which has been my finding). I did not look past 1957. But 1955 was conspicuously absent. So this part was not existant for 1955, which would explain why you did not find one on your '55 Caddy. Clay/Lexi

[Cadman-iac]

The spacer is mentioned in the Authenticity Manual on page III-1 but unclear as to what pulley they were used on. I only saw them on the squat fatboys, (non-AC). Clay/Lexi

 Where can I find one of those authentication manuals?
 I just ordered a reprint of the 1956-1961 parts manual, so I'll have it for reference.
 Thanks for all your efforts on this Clay, it's much appreciated.
 My thanks to everyone who has helped to identify these pumps. We got some definite maybe's out of all this, with the understanding that apparently even Cadillac doesn't know what is what, lol!! Waaayyy too many options for something so simple.

 Rick

[Cadman-iac]

Checked my 1956 MPL and under Group 6.0020 there is a listing titled; "Spacer, Fan Blade", part number 134 6795. This part was only listed for 1956. So I checked my 1957 MPL and found both a listing for a 1956 as well as a 1957 spacer-both bearing different part numbers. So something is different about them. They were intended for non-AC cars the notation further noted, (which has been my finding). I did not look past 1957. But 1955 was conspicuously absent. So this part was not existant for 1955, which would explain why you did not find one on your '55 Caddy. Clay/Lexi

  As I recall, when I got the 55, the radiator was still mounted in it, but I noticed that it sat farther back from the core support with the use of spacers about an inch and a quarter long. Big thick ones that looked like they could be used for leaf spring bushings, but made of steel with an outer diameter of around 3/4" or so.
I can dig them out and measure one if you want.
But that might explain why there's no listing for a fan spacer on a 55.
 As for the 56 with A/C not needing a spacer, I can see why after looking at that 3-groove pulley. The non-air cars for 56 and 57, probably the distance from the radiator to the engine was a little different between them, thus the two part numbers.
Thanks again,

Rick

[Lexi]

It is available through this CLC link Rick. Ad for the Authenticity Manuals looks different and hard to read, but they are there. To the best of my knowledge the latest one which is what I have is the 3rd edition. Clay/Lexi

https://gmclubapparel.com/products/cadillac-and-lasalle-authenticty-manuals?_pos=1&_sid=af615e70f&_ss=r

[Lexi]

Odd as the MPL doesn't list them. Again, if they are Cadillac parts, then maybe they came with the fan and were not itemized? That might explain why there is not a separate listing for them. You had to buy the fan to get them perhaps. If you think they are OEM I would like to see some pics and measurements. Clay/Lexi

[Cadman-iac]

Odd as the MPL doesn't list them. Again, if they are Cadillac parts, then maybe they came with the fan and were not itemized? That might explain why there is not a separate listing for the. You had to buy the fan to get them perhaps. If you think they are OEM I would to see some pics and measurements. Clay/Lexi

Are you referring to the radiator mounting spacers, of which there are 6, or a fan spacer?
 I'll get pictures tomorrow and post them.

Rick

[Lexi]

Are you referring to the radiator mounting spacers, of which there are 6, or a fan spacer?

 Rick

Sorry. Must be getting tired. Cadillac'n is sometimes tough work. Those are different. Think I got some of those here as well but later ones. Clay/Lexi

[Cadman-iac]

It is available through this CLC link Rick. Ad for the Authenticity Manuals looks different and hard to read, but they are there. To the best of my knowledge the latest one which is what I have is the 3rd edition. Clay/Lexi

https://gmclubapparel.com/products/cadillac-and-lasalle-authenticty-manuals?_pos=1&_sid=af615e70f&_ss=r

 I just ordered one, thanks for the link.

  Rick

[Cadman-iac]

Sorry. Must be getting tired. Cadillac'n is sometimes tough work. Those are different. Think I got some of those here as well but later ones. Clay/Lexi

 I know what you mean. I've been running around all day today and half the day yesterday trying to compare and remember all the various different details on these pumps. Very confusing!

 Rick

[Lexi]

Yes it is confusing and they can also be tough items to photograph. Clay/Lexi

[Cadman-iac]

  Let me ask this of you guys, did Cadillac only use dual heaters on the 54-56 models, or were there any prior to these?

 I'm just guessing here, but because both the 55 and 56's I've got had the heater hoses coming off the left side of the water pump, the heater return port just above the lower radiator hose connection is used, and the heater supply port is just below the thermostat on the right side and pointing to the right and slightly rearward like pumps 4-6.
 Because they have twin heaters, TEE fittings were used to tie them together. One on the left side near the upper control arm if memory serves, and another on the firewall near the wiper motor.

 On cars with only one heater, again this is just a guess, that port above the lower radiator hose connection is not needed, and both heater hoses connect to the pump just below the thermostat like pumps 1-3.

 Pump 7, and the one on my 56 parts car (excluding the top ports on the upper water passage), have only one heater port, which is a return port just above the lower radiator hose connection. The supply port for the heater with these pumps must be on the block or one of the heads.
 Which years had a fitting for the heater supply on the block or head and the return hose connects to the lower part of the pump?

 What years did both heater hoses go under the intake manifold like what pumps 1-3 would have?

 I'm thinking that's the key to figuring this out.

 Rick

[Warren Rauch #4286]

    I supplied the Self Starter with a guide from a rebuilder on waterpump cores. The tech index in the directory says it was the Nov 2001 issue..  I will try to find the catalog it came from or that issue. It seemed very good.

Warren

[Cadman-iac]

I supplied the Self Starter with a guide from a rebuilder on waterpump cores. The tech index in the directory says it was the Nov 2001 issue..  I will try to find the catalog it came from or that issue. It seemed very good.

Warren

 That would be fantastic, thank you Warren, I'd really appreciate that.
 
 Rick

[David King (kz78hy)]

That makes sense David. Just not sure if output or return, any idea? What do you think? The MPL seems to say all '56 water pumps came with it. Does your water pump have this fitting? Clay/Lexi

Yes my car has the fitting.  That is on the return line to the pump.

[David King (kz78hy)]

Yes Rick, that is the unit I was refering to. Yours appears to be a 1956 fan hub for an AC equpped car. Probably was used for more than one year. Right down to the drilled spots for balancing. The light weight non-AC pulley did use a spacer between the shaft and the inside of the pulley, (so not visible). Believe it was aluminum and sort of cross shaped. So if anyone goes to install one without that, you would have belt lining up issues. As I recall my crank case pulley is cast iron as well. Will look for photos. Clay/Lexi

54-56 3 groove pulley was a stamped steel version. 
The 4 groove pulley looks just like the cast one and it came out in '57 w/AC. One year only.
The one shown is 58 to 64 and some special later versions.  I will post some images later with all the data.

[David King (kz78hy)]

Here are some photos of my 55 during build.  The pump looks to be a replacement '56 version.  There are images that show the exit and return with the special fittings.  My car is no A/C (not available in '55 convertible) and Eldorado's had the trans cooler standard.  The block is different to as that is where the inlet of the water flow is to it from the trans cooler.

[David King (kz78hy)]

Here are some screen shots and images of various master parts lists.  56, 60, & 68 which shows the pulley, pump, and spacer numbers.  One image of my 57 (used on '58 Eldorado Brougham only)