OK FANS,HERE IS MY WANT LIST!!!!
MINT ORIGINALS ONLY
70 DVC CHATEAU MAUVE
70 DVC SPARTACUS BLUE
69-70FLEETWOOD BROUGHAM LEATHER NO BODY MOULDINGS NO BUMP ROOF
50 G's for the DVC MINT ORIGINALS MILES UNDER 25K
25 G's FOR FLEETWOODS
59 EBZ BLACK WITH BENCH SEAT ORIGINAL UNRESTORED, NO PRICE CAR DOES NOT EXIST
About a year ago there had been a pretty mint original '64 DeVille Conv, 2x black + red leather in NJ. Car sold in low 20s IIRC.
Either the '69 or '70 Fleetwood 60 Special did not come with body side moldings - I cannot recall which one.
What is a bump roof?
no bump roof, no rust bumps under the top, no after market bsm
Ah.
I rather slick tops on them anyway - and no acne worries.
The 69 and 70 Fleetwoods included body side moldings and this would be an option delete. I agree the slick top (option delete) Fleetwood Brougham in leather would be great with no body side moldings in perfect condition, all low mileage lack of use issues cured. Black on black would something!
69 no bsm 70 bsm
Beautiful 69 Fleetwood that is for sure. I like the rocker moldings, they make the car. I added that option to my red 1970 convertible.
Quote from: wrefakis on August 22, 2014, 09:59:12 AM
OK FANS,HERE IS MY WANT LIST!!!!
MINT ORIGINALS ONLY
70 DVC CHATEAU MAUVE
70 DVC SPARTACUS BLUE
69-70FLEETWOOD BROUGHAM LEATHER NO BODY MOULDINGS NO BUMP ROOF
50 G's for the DVC MINT ORIGINALS MILES UNDER 25K
25 G's FOR FLEETWOODS
59 EBZ BLACK WITH BENCH SEAT ORIGINAL UNRESTORED, NO PRICE CAR DOES NOT EXIST
Bill,
Same old list??? LOL!
I'll bid $65K for those colors.
I've got a 22K mile one in Bayberry. Oh... you don't want it?
How about a 21K mile one in Nottingham. Oh... you don't want that one either??? Why not?? LOL!
We can all thank Cadillac for pushing the same colors & the dealers for following like sheep.
I'm not sure what was happening on the east coast in 1970, but out here it was white or some other light color.
Bob
Quote from: Scot Minesinger on August 22, 2014, 07:27:42 PM
Beautiful 69 Fleetwood that is for sure. I like the rocker moldings, they make the car. I added that option to my red 1970 convertible.
That's not an option Scot, it was a model feature. That said I like them. What did you do, cut the 3.5" off the rear of the long middle section?
You could get the rocker molding as a dealer option, and that is my story for GN and I'm sticking to it. Yes, cut the last 3.5" off the back. All the other pieces fit perfectly. It makes the car look way better and what Cadillac should have done. Here is better picture
Fleetwood rockers were not any kind of option on devilles
we used to put them on all the time, but options that were offered for "dealer installations" were always original spec items as per factory original.
None such as tilt wheel, cruise, etc required trimming or modification.
bob that list is in reply to a [post seeking a 59 Biarritz in this color, that trim, etc that went on for 2 weeks, point being, lol on color and trim
they built around 125 chateau mauve 70 dvc, so it will be hard to find
as an aside, of the last 45, 70 cadillacs built 23 were bayberry, including the last dvc built that I owned for 25 years miles 5,825
Quote from: wrefakis on August 23, 2014, 08:31:16 AM
Fleetwood rockers were not any kind of option on devilles
I think Scott was joking ("that is my story for the gn") but maybe I read it wrong.
could be, but that is how 99 bucket seat 59 ebz story started, evolved at Hershey from 99 eldo broughams to 99 bucket seats, good copy for the dirtbag collector car dealers!
I was joking about the rocker moldings. However, I talked to a person who worked for a Cadillac dealer in 1970. He said the cars came with carpet shipped separately and it was dealer installed, along with a bunch of other prep required (set timing) to bring the car to the showroom floor. Further, the dealers would add this option if it was what it took to sell a Cadillac. After all it was not 1966 anymore, and if someone wanted a convertible in 1966 with rocker moldings the dealer would have them buy the Eldorado. From 1967 thru 1970 dealers would add this option if requested. Given the dealer functioned as a factory in that they finished assembling the cars in 1970, I think that I should not lose points at GN.
To those that object, I understand because I sure do not like when the metal center strip and/or hood ornament is added to a 1970 DeVille. To almost everyone I ask, the 1970 Cadillac looks better with the rocker moldings than without.
My rust free car has 123k miles on it and it every wear item has been replaced; paint, top, upholstery, dash, chrome, paint, rubber seals, rubber hoses, all bushings, all brake components, all fuel deliver components, engine rebuilt, trans rebuilt, front/rear suspension rebuilt, diff rebuilt, climate control rebuilt, new radiator, new condenser, and etc. Accordingly with such a non original, although very appealing and reliable Cadillac, I feel no guilt in adding the moldings and driving the hell out of it.
the word "option" indicates it can be ordered on the car
Fleetwood rockers could not be ordered on a deville, period
I saw a 70 up in harlem in 70 with fur seats, dealer did the car, so are fur seats an option?????
ditto for the superfly eldo I had in 72,done by Bronx Cadillac thru derham coach? option???
no, aftermarket
I have no horse in this race but it would seem rather strange - at least to me - that the dealer would have installed any OEM trim parts that would have required modification in order to adapt to a vehicle not designed for the part.
STOP,want to go thru my parts books and order guides,had my first 70 FLEETWOOD for a month the month of oct 69,was a dealer all these years , sold used cads in Brooklyn in 71 saw tons of stripes,rockers,emblems, these cars were plain,you had to jazz them up
My family owned a small town Cadillac dealership from the late '20s thru the mid - 70's and in my somewhat limited experience I know many dealers would do anything the customer requested to modify a new car to the customer's desires and tastes for whatever price the dealer felt he should charge and the customer would accept. Including OEM parts that would fit, or be modified to fit, eventhough the car was never intended to have that part.
If you want it to be accepted for GN judging as authentic you would need he dealer's invoice showing the modification. Even then its up to the judges to decide.
In a word they ain't Factory and were not an option. They looked great on the 66 Eldo because they were fully integrated into the design of the car. On the 70 DeVille they look tacked on.
I like mine plain. Looks just right to me.
That's why they make vanilla, chocolate and tutti fruitti as my uncle Don says.
Brian
Quote from: Scot Minesinger on August 23, 2014, 10:52:00 AM
To almost everyone I ask, the 1970 Cadillac looks better with the rocker moldings than without.
I agree, they are 8)
I knew there would be disagreement on this.
The rocker moldings do not looked tacked on because they fit perfectly, just like the Fleetwood. Here are close up pictures. I agree it would look better without the body side moldings to protect doors, but the 70 Fleetwood had those body side moldings (with vinyl insert painted to match color of vinyl top). However, given the use it gets, the doors would be dinged without those protective body side moldings - you know how it is you park way out in the grocery store parking lot and when you return there is some mini van parked right next to it.
I guess those who do not like them will not be convinced to add them on their car and they will not persuade me to remove them.
I will not add them to my original 32k mile SDV due to some objections - so don't worry about that understand the value and truth to only original once.
I think the moldings look great. Makes me wonder if any of those '59s with the 60S chrome fin blister moldings were added by the dealer back in the day, or whether that is a restoration phenomenon.
Thanks David. I'm a nut for rocker moldings, really like them. Unless I had a real original low mileage original 59, 60, 63, 64-70 Cadillac I would add them. This is not cheap to do correctly. I have seen where only the center section is added and not the two skirt pieces and rear section, and that looks bad (presumed it was added to hide rust).
The 61 and 62 Cadillacs never included rocker moldings and they would not look good on them either anyway. 1959-76 is my favorite time period for Cadillac and GM in general.
The 98's and Electras of the same era all had them. Even the Chevys and Pontiacs of same era had them in some form or with some option combinations.
So yes, I drove a 95 Fleetwood for 254k trouble free enjoyable miles with the ultimate rocker moldings. Those 65 and 66 Bonneville Pontiacs had great rocker moldings. The 60 Buick also looked great. Understand that the rocker moldings accelerate rust. My daily driver 95 Fleetwood driven in any weather was rust free - Cadillac figured out how to make them much more corrosion resistant.
The ultimate modern daily dream car will be when Cadillac makes a large V-8 RWD car that seats five comfortably, supposedly to be introduced in 2016. I will buy one (probably a 2017 model used in late 2018)-yes I plan out that far. I will have to live with the likelihood that it does not include rocker moldings, as that will be styling reserved for older classics.
I'm a fan of rocker moldings as well, and think they add a very distinctive to many cars, including my '60 Seville. The only downside is they're real good for concealing rust, as I found out the hard/expensive way.
wrefakis,
What is your opinion of this car? I am restoring it, nut and bolt, powder coating every bolt etc. It was a tired 104k mile car rust free when I got it in 2009. I could not have saved it any sooner. Given the circumstances, it deserves a full restoration. Plus I really like a 4 door, so even if you are not positive on it, I'm still going ahead with a almost no expense spared restoration. Is it a genuine Cadillac factory or modified? How should I classify at GN, I guess commercial as it was sold to a business (horse racing-they used to use a 4dr Continental). In consideration of your knowledge of authenticity of this era, really interested in what you have to write.
Scot, you can keep your Fleetwood rocker moldings on your DeVille if I can keep my stand up hood ornament. ;)
They do look nice, but I am wary of drilling into the body to add them. Plus, 1968 moldings are much more expensive than 1969-70 ones.
Do you have the right side mirrors on any of your 1970s? Those are hard to find, but at least you have 2 years to work with. 1968 was a one off year for this item, so mine cost plenty.
I always laugh, sometimes out loud, when I see a late 70s or 80s right side mirror on a 68-70 Cadillac. It looks all bent and crooked. :P
You can keep your hood ornament on the 1968. Two of my three Cadillacs have the correct passenger mirror, and one does not. Aside from the holes for the Allen screws missing on the one mirror it is very difficult to tell them apart. Cadillac Tim has (hopefully still does) a set of side rocker moldings for you if you want them. I bet the tilt steering columns are difficult to get too.
scott, i am going to let down on this one,my i am not familiar with you 4 door convert.
i know they toyed with the idea in 60 and 65-66, but i assume these would have been done along the lines of the wagons by one of the coachbuilders
my experience is with factory production cars only, would be interested to see it
Scott,
I have the Walter McCall book in which the 1970 Cadillac 4 door convertible was referenced, the page of which you have attached.
That is quite a find, especially if it is indeed the only one built by coachbuilder Lehman Peterson as the author suggests.
I strongly doubt the car had been built "in-house" but anything is possible...
May we please have a picture of the data plate?
I have the documentation back to 1970 on the 4 dr convertible. Only 4 door convertible sold after WWII that was authorized by Cadillac and included a warranty. The same owner enjoyed it for 32 years in DC from 73 until his death in 2005. Here is the data plate. It started life as a triple blue convertible and the SDV parts were brown interior and so when finished it was a dark blue paint/dark blue top/brown interior. Lots of work in this car. I'm changing it to black with tan interior and top.
BTW, the top folds flat just like any other 1970 convertible, not like a baby buggy.
No "XP" on the plate reduces the chances it had been built in-house.
Did you ever order the build sheet?
It might be a good sign if Outlet Code for Chicago is listed since L/P was based there.
The Outlet Code for Chicago is 850111.
Dealers are simply moving product and if they find they can add anything on to a car in their market that helps sell it, it gets added. It also builds up the asking price so they show a better trade allowance.
I sold new and used cars in the early nineties and we would swap wheels, radios, add a spoiler, what every it took to make the deal happen.
David
This 4dr convertible was sent by Cadillac (not the dealer) to LP and they built the car. It is not a dealer conversion. It would not be in the book if it was a dealer thing.
No matter, I bought the car because I wanted a four door convertible, not because it could be rare.
Here is a '71 4 door convertible that was shown at the 2008 Grand National in Cherry Hill, NJ. I don't know too much about it except that it was supposedly owned at one time by the Nelson Rockefeller family.
Geoff, (hope I spelled it right)
Yes this car was parked next to me in Ohio GN 2011. It is not authorized by Cadillac and was done after it left the dealer. I heard the same history as you wrote. There are a few other 4 dr convertibles from 1965 thru 1970 around, seen a 68 (PJ's then Lash), a 66 and another 70 over the last couple of years.
This 71 did not appeal to me because the top staked up high like a Beetle when it was down, and did not have a nice look when the top was up either. The top on this 71 was obviously a custom. The top on mine is the same mechanism as any other 65-70 convertible, so no issues with replacements, parts, and etc (and it folds nice and flat).
Quote from: David King (kz78hy) on August 24, 2014, 08:35:28 PM
I sold new and used cars in the early nineties and we would swap wheels, radios, add a spoiler, what every it took to make the deal happen.
David
...and doing 4 door convertible conversions...? ???
-Just kidding, I know you meant the moldings. ;D
Plus a lot changed between the early 1970's and the 1990's, as it was more about survival in 1990's than it was about brand integrity with Cadillac dealers back in 1970. The manufacturer's have a heavy hand in how dealers conduct business, our local Cadillac dealer was forced to redecorate three years ago (what seemed to fine already) with new tile floors in showrooms (the accentuated the Cadillac colors of now). I don't think the dealer would add a spoiler to a 1970 Cadillac (say from a Pontiac), whereas now they might try to if it would sell a car.