1948 hydra-matic help, please

[gene harl]

If it only went that far , the rebuilder missed the boat on something,, like not getting the lip seal in right, or leaving out a snap ring or not tighting a bolt.. when you get the pan down , call me and lets talk about you see... all the parts are available
Gene Harl    CLC22406

[kkarrer]

Gene,
    Tried some more linkage adjustments today and test drives to no avail.  I guess I'll find a bucket and start draining this thing and getting it ready to pull out tomorrow.  Fluid level is right.  Temp of pan after test runs was less than 110 degrees.  No strange noises.  I'm baffled.  Once I get it drained and get the pan and maybe the side cover off.  I'll give you and Greg a buzz.
Ken Karrer 1941 6227D coupe

[LeRoy DeVol]

The answer several people gave you about the clutch seals was correct. If the seals were not installed properly
or the piston style rings that allow pressure to go to the clutch drum are broken or missing the car wont go into high gear. I was a automatic transmission mechanic in the 50s, and i have worked on many of these cars.

P.S. For all you people out there that have cars that don't have electric shift solenoids;
If your car is leaking fluid, slipping while shifting, or not downshifting properly {especially in cold weather } the problem is usually hard seals, dirty valve bodes, or governor. The easy solution to the problem is to install a pint of lacquer thinner, drive the car 100 miles, drain the fluid, drop the pan, clean the screen, install the pan, and install new fluid. Most of the time if there is no other problems everything will be fine.
I had downshifting problems with my 1947 Cadillac and this solved everything. 

[pauldridge]

Ken,

sorry to hear about your difficulties with the tranny after all your hard work on that beautiful machine.. but I guess that's about par for the course in this hobby.

I may have mentioned to you I have a 1951 Hudson Hornet that originally came to me with a GM Hydramatic (standard issue for Hudson), most likely quite similar to yours.  Mine was also supposedly "professionally rebuilt" by a well-known Hudson restorer, just a few thousand miles ago.

When my Hydramatic locked up one day in the middle of a 4 lane highway, I consulted a guy that the Hudson community proclaim as the guru of Hydramatics.  He surmised from my description that I had a broken band in mine.  He does provide rebuilt Hydras and/or exchange.. I believe he is in his 80's but everyone says he's the go-to guy for these transmissions... might be worth a call:  Al Saffrahn, Maricopa AZ 520-568-2911.  I believe he quoted me around $1,400 for a full rebuild.

In my case, frankly I hated the way that automatic shifted, even when it was working "properly"..I decided that instead of spending the money on an overhaul, I'd use it instead to convert the Hornet to 3-speed manual with overdrive.  In the end, the total cost, including rebuilt clutch and TO bearing, as well as rebuilding the manual tranny (which I was able to do in my own shop for about $150 worth of parts bearings and seals), came to about what I would have spent on the rebuild.

It was the best decision I ever made.  I love that 3-on-the-tree.

You should come out and drive my manual transmission 1940 Sixty Special.. you might very well be convinced to make the swap.

PS... I do still have the Hydramatic I yanked out of the Hornet.  I don't know how well these would cross-reference, but you'd be welcome to experiment with it.  I've been meaning to take it apart myself just to get a sense of the complexity (or lack of) of the thing.

Best of luck.. can't wait to see you get that thing on the road

[LeRoy DeVol]

I have read several comments on the rough shifting of the hydromatic transmission. If the engine is running smooth and the linkage is adjusted properly the transmission should shift nicely. Of course this depends on if the trans. is in good condition.

[kkarrer]

Gene, I'm still waiting on this guy Glenn to come by.  I think we'll get together early this week.  I got my AC back on in my shop and everything's cleaned up and I have a good trans jack ready to go.  If we pull this thing I can guarantee that it will be one of the cleanest jobs this guys ever seen.  It's all like new.  Paul, I'm considering your idea.  I'll have to see what John Foust has up in Dallas in the way of change over parts (starting with a clutch pedal and moving to the bell housing trans, bearings and linkages and I think the shifter arm might even be slightly different), but I know I can do it with the right parts.   LeRoy,  I appreciate your comments.  I suspect that our tear-down will focus on the clutches and I may need some guidance there after I've drained the fluid and dropped the pan and the side cover.  If it's the clutch seal that's the problem.  I'm hoping that it can be replaced without taking the whole darned thing apart, though from looking at the shop manual for the '48 Hydramatic, it appears as though the unit would definitely have to come out and some gaskets at the very least will have to be replaced.
Thanks.  I'll keep you guys posted.  Right now I'm also trying to figure out what's making the lifters so noisy.  I installed a remote oil filter, but didn't disturb the original oil line that runs from the front of the lower part of the block to the valve cover valley under the intake.  Oil pressure is good and I ran some Marvel Mystery Oil though the gas and oil, but they're still louder than the 346 cars that I listened to at Nationals.  The engine has good power and runs cool and I could tell from the honing marks and new parts inside that it had a recent rebuild.
Later,
Ken Karrer 1941 6227 D coupe
Ken

[LeRoy DeVol]

ken; This is LeRoy again, and the problem with your valves being noisy may not be a problem after all. Cadillac was one of the first cars to have hydraulic lifters and if properly maintained run with no noise. I was a auto mechanic back in the 50s, and worked on many of these cars. My first Cadillac was a 1947 and i rebuilt the engine. I was looking for horsepower and i installed a 3/4 camshaft with solid lifters. the engine like yours, ran with a little noise, but had lots of power.  You talked like you had no idea about what was done to your engine before you owned it. I also installed a remote oil filter on my 47 Cad. i have now. I taped the oil passage on the bottom of the engine on the left side for the feed and the return into the oil filer tube. I had no drop in oil pressure and that was 4 years ago. Without removing the manifold you will never know. If the engine runs good with equal cylinder pressure, {about 120 lbs ] i would not worry. By the way i use that Marvel Mystery oil in my gas and it runs great.

[gene harl]

Hi Ken,,,, Having read  your posts ,, I know that you can rebuild this your self..all you need is a good book (about 150 pages) proper snap ring pliers and a press (hyd. jack under the bumper will work)...worse case should will be about $350... for a complete rebuild.... call me when you get the pan down... 775-423-8568..
   Gene Harl    CLC22406

[kkarrer]

UPDATE.  Glenn Schwabe, an old hydramatic rebuilder here in Austin friend of a friend in our local CLC came over this evening.  We ran the car on the lift.  It still didn't shift.  He told me to drain the oil and drop the pans and let things drain.  He'll be back tomorrow.  After draining the oil and dropping the side and lower pan I found nothing but clean fluid.  In the lower pan there's a little bit of sediment that looks as if it's band or clutch material...not much.  The govenor weight (looks like the cap on a U joint bearing cover) hangs loose and easily moves up and down when it's in the upside down position.  Other than that, everything looks very clean and new, tight, and in place.  I ran a magnet around the lower pan and came up with nothing on it worth mentioning.  The total amount of black clutch or band material, if I collected, would probably be less than 1/4 teaspoon.
I'd imagine that I'll have to pull the trans. in the next day or two and apply some air pressure as Gene suggests and see what's leaking.  More later.
Ken Karrer 1941 6227D coupe