Cadillac & LaSalle Club Discussion Forum

Hello Everybody,

I finally decided to start a thread where I report the restoration stuff I do to my 68 DeVille Convertible.
I introduced the car before, see here: http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=120638.20 (http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=120638.20)

And also started some topics about some restoration stuff I did, see here: http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=122984.0 (http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=122984.0)

This topic shall report stuff that is not worth to be but into a single thread and also more general stuff to keep you informed (those who are interested).
I read some blogs here with great pleasure, for example to one from David Smith http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=116290.0 (http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=116290.0) or the new blog from Ben Friend http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=127357.0 (http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=127357.0).

I hope that I can contribute to the community. Maybe some of you want to do the same thing, or ask questions. I also hope to get help from you when I get stuck.

So here we go
:)

Best regards,
Nicolas

So the first task to tackle was (or still is!) the replacement of all the weatherstripping since I plan (and already did) to use the car in ANY weather, that is sunshine, rain, fog etc. Except snow and ice, the car is stored in the winter.

Since my car is mostly original all the rubbers were original. So I ordered a lot of rubbers from steele and rubber the right way. The rubber products were all a perfect match except those for the door trims (window feltline) - they do say that these are not the correct ones though. So, don't be surprised! They do not want to manufacture the correct rubbers with the chrome trim - I already asked. (the manufacturer is PUI Interiors)

The process is very simple, just remove the old rubber, clean the groove with some cleaner and then glue and clip in the new rubber. The window, trunk, and door weatherstrips were a perfect match. The pictures are attached. I also replaced to convertible top bow weatherstrip and painted the rusted area with some POR15.

You can clearly see the difference, the wind noise has reduced significantly due to the new window post rubbers.

Here are some more pictures.
You can clearly see the difference the new rubber makes. The doors now close with a nice "whom" and no wind noise anymore.

As said before, the window felt rubbers are not an exact replacement. The pieces for the trim panel are way off and even have a dent. I already complained, but that is how it is. I will post more details later. First regarding the outer rubber on the chrome trim strip on the door. This is neither an exact replacement. The taps are not correctly orientated, so you cant "slide" the strip nicely in place. It will buckle to some degree, no matter what you try.

Consider the first two pictures, there you see that one needs to cut a relieve, else the strip won't slide into the window post groove. And then look at the taps. They are oriented in the wrong way and some rubber in on top of it.  I had to bent the taps to their proper direction in order to slide the rubber strip in. Still not satisfied. See the third picture.

I tried to glue the weather strip to the chrome molding - but that was no success. Now I adjusted the window to slightly but the rubber when fully up, such that no water can enter the door frame.

Did you guys add additional screws to keep the rubber in place?

Or does anyone know some place that sells the correct window felt line rubbers?

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hello,

So  I removed also the back seat and panel. Removed the window and removed the beltline outer weather strip with the nylon window guide plate.
See the first picture below. You can see how my rubber is very dry and old. Pieces are broken off. When I read my master parts book correctly, then this has the part number: 9709028 (and for the passenger side: 9709029). Attached also a page from the master parts illustration catalog, where you can see the different weatherstrips.

I ordered from Steele a weatherstrip package, and as mentioned above, these are not quite correct.
The new rubber has some strange ribbles where the weatherstrip curves upward. Maybe production related. This has the effect that you cannot mount the nylon plate to this new rubber because the window will hit it and you are not able to adjust the window properly. So I had to remove the guide plate again.
See the two figures attached.

Does anyone know where to buy the correct weatherstrips?
Are they even made?

Thanks for you help.
Regards,
Nicolas

Hello guys,

So I am about to install my new vacuum powered trunk release system. The question that I have now is how to route the vacuum line to the glove box?

It goes inside the trunk lid, then needs to go behind the trunk lining and then?
To the passenger side? Inside the rear panel?
Below the carpet?
Or under the step plate? (is there room)?
And then up the kick panel?

I have attached some pictures.
Would be great if someone could give me some hints. Or is there a diagram somewhere?

Thanks a lot!

Hi,

Sorry I don't know much about '68 Convertibles, except that they may be my favorite Caddy ever.  Looks like you have a nice one and are making it nicer.  Keep it up, and good luck.

-mB

IIRC on my 68 ELDO the hose runs through the trunk lid down the hinge where there is a clip holding it, then into the passenger compartment, probably as the red line in your first picture, then behind the quarter panel to the door sill.  It then runs under the door sill to the front and behind the kick panel.  Exact routing to the push button from there I am a bit fuzzy on. 

I would think the DeVille would be similar.   

Ah, right. I found that rectangular slot in the trunk lid bracket. Do you know how the clip looks like? Where to buy this one?

I also investigated some more on how to route the vacuum line. There is a round hole in the metal on the passenger side to pass the vacuum line through, will then disappear under the door sill plate. See the figure attached. I hope its visible.

Does anyone know the correct color code of the vacuum lines?

I think the one from the glove compartment to the trunk has a green stripe and the vacuum supply has a white stripe.
I think the supply line should go through the firewall to the vacuum distribution just near the vacuum canister. Correct?

Thanks a lot.
Regards,
Nicolas


P.S: Found another picture (from ebay) where the vacuum line is readily visible. Also the vacuum actuator. See below.

New update.

Last week I mounted my fender to cowl braces that I got from USParts Supply. Corrects length with (almost) all screws.
I drove the car on various roads, like mountain road, highway, normal back road, bumpy road, flat road etc.

Those braces really make a difference. The fenders do not shake as much, that is they don't shake at all as they did before. Also on very bumpy roads the stuff inside the glove box would rattle like crazy. I don't know if it improved handling at all - don't think so.

So, if you drive up and down mountains a lot (which I do here in Switzerland), I can really recommend installing these braces.

Regards,
Nicolas

Hi guys,

So I am struggling with my door panel fasteners. I put the door panels in for the last few car shows and trips, but left all the clips out. The problem is that some of my original plugs are gone and also some of the original fasteners are missing.
So I bought new plugs from restoration specialities, part nr. 2146J-CLP - "Trim Fastener GM trim Panel Plug for Door"
Now, these plugs are almost the same as your original ones. However the new ones are made out of hard plastic, which makes it quite more difficult to install (and especially remove!) your door panel.

Now so far so good, the real problem is with the clips that are supposed to go into these plugs. The originals are not strong enough for this hard plastic stuff. Anyway, I tried to buy new clips (also from restoration specialties) part nr. 1969-CLP. I also had some original MOPAR chrysler clips around.

The three pictures below shows the original clip (black) along with the new clip (green) from restoration specialties.

As can be seen: The original ones are much narrower at the tip, less wide and their flanks are much larger.

I was not able to make the new clips fit into the original plugs still on my door or even into the new plugs (2146J-CLP).

The chrysler clips I mentioned fit better, since they are a bit narrower at the top, but still not correct.


It would be nice, if one could sell me the original plugs and clips for 68 or point me to some correct replacement.

Thanks a lot!
Best regards,
Nicolas

Anyone?

Where do you buy your clips and fasteners if you restore your door panels?
Someone has to know...

Best regards,
Nicolas

Here are some updates on the restoration.
I did this last year in winter, but will continue this winter. Just now I found the time to write things up. So here we go:

My original rose wood veneer was really beating up by the sunlight, so I had to redo it (see the first picture). Obviously one needs to remove the door panel first so I figured I also restore the door panel. But continuing with the wood veneer which is secured to the door panel with a little glue (which lost its strength in my case) and some screws with some very strange nuts. I made my own tool using a screw and trimmed it using a grinding machine. See the second picture.

Now at this point you remove the wood veneer along with the door pull handle. Don't do the mistake that I did to try to remove the two little screws from the back, it is much easier to remove the handle later. The third pictures shows my mistake by removing them first, but now you know how to do it! :)

Ok, so then I removed the old dry coating with some sharp tools, but being very very careful to not scratch the wood. I used a very sharp tool that is used for cleaning you ceramic cooktop. Worked very nicely. In my case the old coating just chipped of, but I guess you can also sand it down. Then you need to sand the wood smooth, to achieve a smooth finish and nice uniform color. I used special sandpaper with a soft padding. Makes it real nice to work with your hand. I used some medium and a 220 for the finish.

As a bonus: the whole shop smells wonderfully after rosewood. :-)

Then I had a paint shop, which also does wooden boats - so they know what their are doing, to clear coat the wood veneer. Came out really nice, as you can see in the last picture.

Check out the finished door panel and compare with the starting point. Quite a difference!
I am very pleased with the result, the other wood veneer panels will follow soon.

Best regards,
Nicolas

rest of the pictues

In this post I'll wrap up the restoration of the door panel itself, restore the water damage and repair the carpet. My car still had the original weatherstripping which were all dry and cracked, hence water was entering and damaged to door panel made out of pressed wood. It would swell and become wavy. See the first picture.
So, to smooth it out, I sprayed it again with some water and pressed and clamped it taut to restore its original shape. See the second picture.

After a few days it will be smooth and flat again, ready to apply some epoxy. I had some experience with that stuff since it is used on building boats too. So it holds the fibers of the wood together and adds waterproofness at the same time. See the third picture. Then I had to repair some damage to the vinyl strip on the carpet, since it had a long rip. After that it is just a matter of applying some glue to the carpet and panel.

I did the driver side door panel the same way and it came out really nice. Nice clean and flat carpet. Mounts nice and easy with the four screws to the door frame, no warpage anymore.

Recently, I also added my kick-down switch that I got from Tim.
Solenoid of the transmission does work, so it was just a matter of bolting it in. The shop manual has a nice explanation how to mount it such that the kick down is activated at about 60% of throttle.
The pictures below show some more details of the setup.

Regards,
Nicolas

P.S: I think my throttle return spring is wrong. Should it be shorter and attached to the tab of the kick-down & dash-pot plate?
Where can I get that spring? Are the different stiffnesses?

Hi guys,

Some smaller updates.

1) I installed the vacuum actuator for the trunk lock. Make sure you get the correct one, since I believe it is 68 only. The mounting screws need to be farther apart to clear the locking mechanism. Then you need to adjust or create a new rod that connects the lock cylinder to the vacuum actuator. The distance is about 2cm shorter. I made a new piece out of some scrap metal I had laying around. Works very nice. But yet need to route the vacuum line.

--> Can anyone tell me what color the vacuum line from the main supply to the switch in the glove box needs to be? Black with white stripe?
How is it routed through the firewall?

2) As I mentioned earlier, I installed the braces under the hood connecting the two fenders. Now I have driven some 400 miles more on highway and in the mountains. These braces really make a difference. I would recommend to install these if you drive on twisty roads.

3) I still need to remove my wood veneer of the dash. Can anyone tell me how to remove this veneer? How to access it? Do I have to remove the dash first?

Thanks a lot for your help

Best regards,
Nicolas


P.S: Here are some pictures of the event - it is called "Hangar Rockin' St. Stephan"
A military airfield way back in the mountains. It was used by the swiss military, very difficult to start and land there.

Drive up the mountain road brünig.

somewhere besides the road on a farm in the mountains.

Hi Nicolas,

Is your '68 Caribe Aqua and White in color?  I would love to see a few more pictures of it since that is the colors I'm thinking of using on mine.

Best regards,
Don

Hi Don,

No, its silver pine green.
Repainted some 20 years ago, but it matches quite well. The top is supposed to be the color: Sandalwood

This silver pine green is really interesting since its changing color depending on the light condition. And it is not a "powerful" color, hence the lines of the car a nicely accentuated.
I think a bright color works best for these kind of cars where the lines are equally important.
I haven't seen a Caribe Aqua yet, but it is also not a dominate color.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hi guys,

My "normal" light restoration came to a quick stop in the last three weeks.
Four weeks ago I organized all the necessities for the Cadillac Big Meet in Kremsmünster near Linz Austria. It will be a 1500 km cruise for me! :-)

Unfortunately the brakes gave up just a week ago on a Friday night cruise. I knew that I would have needed to adjust the brakes since the car slightly pulled to the left while braking. But I never bothered. On that Friday night however, I heard strange rubbing noises coming from the front left brake. So the next day I opened up the front brake and was shocked to find that I had been braking with almost no brake pad at all!  :o
The front brake drum is now severely damaged by the rivets that left two nice deep grooves in the drum....   :-\

Check out the first picture. You can see that the brake pad is almost gone and the rivets had already touched the drum. The arrows indicate the two grooves...

During the last week I searched and ordered some new brake shoes though my local us parts dealer. He ordered some from Raybestos. These are clued not riveted anymore. Fit and finished is quite good, dropped easily in place. I had not ordered new brake internal parts like springs and stuff. So I reused my old ones. I think I will replace all springs and such during the winter, along with painting the backing plate and so one. Lets see.

During reassembly I noticed that the stabilizer plates on the secondary shoe were wrongly installed. Obviously they need to be such that they press on the braking shoe, so they must be on top. Mine were below - having no function at all....

One question though: I noticed that the return springs grab from the top on the right of the car and from the bottom at the left of the car. Should it be like this, or are my springs on the left wrong?

Check out the last two pictures comparing the brake assembly on the driver and passenger side.
I think my driver side assembly has to wrong springs?!? (compare how the springs attach above the brake cylinders)
Can anyone confirm?

I think I also found the reason why my brakes went bad. Compare the link that holds the actuating lever in place. The lever of the driver side brake is just a few milimeters longer, hence the pawl does not engage fully into the star wheel. Hence the star wheel is free to turn in any direction. I thing that the star wheel screwed itself out while driving, hence creating a brake imbalance and in turn the car pulled to the left as described in the beginning. So now I will just bend the link a bit, such that it is shorter and such that the pawl is pulled down engaging into the star wheel.

Important lesson: Make absolutely sure that the pawl is engaged into the star wheel!! Else your brake will "adjust" itself in an unwanted manner!


At this point I am still waiting on the brake drums to arrive from usa.

I hope I can still make it to the Cadillac big meet!
Wish me luck!  :)

Best regards
Nicolas

Hi Nicolas,

I also considered the car to be Caribe Aqua! What's the interior's color code?

Quote from: 6262 on August 19, 2014, 03:25:10 AM
Hi Nicolas,

I also considered the car to be Caribe Aqua! What's the interior's color code?

No, I am pretty sure that it is Silver Pine Green. It was repainted once and the color under the over-sprayed rubber matched exactly.

Body tag numbers:
TR: Trim Color and Material Used: 371
Paint: Lower and Upper Body Color: 30-6

Interior is dark green. Looks very elegant and rich.

Would be great if anyone has two seat belt anchor covers in dark green.
So far I only found some in black and blue.

I'll be at the upcoming Cadillac Meeting in Austria. Will snap a picture of one with the color Caribe Aqua - then we can compare.

Best regards,
Nicolas

It's a great color anyway, and rarely seen. 

So a few weeks ago I was at the Cadillac Big Meet 2014 in Kremsmünster, Austria.
On the drive there I had a tire blow out on the highway. Luckily, no damage to the car.
I did put the spare on and continued the journey.
Had lots of vibrations in the steering and in the car. The drive back home was horrible, since the vibrations increased quite a bit.
After I was home again, I checked the steering system and suspension. I found that the center link is totally worn out. It is still an original peace, so that needs to be replaced.

I will also replace the tires. Buy some new white walls with the correct double white stripe for 68. Ideally, I want the radial with bias play look and the correct stripes. I am in contact with Coker and DB now, to see if they can make me a 900-15 tire. Lets see


Does anyone know who makes the best suspension parts?
Upper ball joints and steering center link?

Thanks a lot
Best regards,
Nicolas

Hi guys,

Another question regarding the brakes:

How makes the correct set of brake parts for my front drum brakes?

My 68 Caddy needs some special springs and hold-down studs for the stabilizer plate.
All the kits I found contain the wrong parts.

How do you overhaul your brakes properly?
Which company sells the correct stuff?

Thanks for your help
Best regards
Nicolas

Just found a nice article about brake drum service in an old Popular Mechanics article: http://books.google.ch/books?id=KtkDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA39&ots=DNHGwyjmrt&dq=brake%20spring%20color%20code&hl=de&pg=PA37#v=onepage&q&f=false (http://books.google.ch/books?id=KtkDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA39&ots=DNHGwyjmrt&dq=brake%20spring%20color%20code&hl=de&pg=PA37#v=onepage&q&f=false)

So, I just ordered my new radials from Diamond Back!  :)
I am very excited to finally drive my Caddy with almost totally correct tires! :-)

A friend here in Europe sent me a picture of his original 67 bias ply tire. So I have now two measurements, the other one from David Smith.

I have attached two pictures of original bias ply tires for 67/68.

Here is what I measured:
White   -  black  -  white
18/32'' - 13/32'' - 6/32''

Distance from rim: 5/8''

Please consult the pictures for the details.


I ordered DB II tires 235/75 R 15

Regards,
Nicolas

I just found that nice website listing all possible service manuals and other literatures of Cadillac. Also a sections about books.
Check it out!

http://www.booksonvintagecadillacs.com (http://www.booksonvintagecadillacs.com)

Excellent!   I can't wait to see them on your car!

I am sure you will be very happy with their appearance.    When I was in Lake George for the Grand National there were several cars with  the incorrect ones (too wide) but one other guy with a beautiful white 68 Coupe Deville had a set of the Diamondback ones like mine.   

It's the little details that make the difference.     

Today I prepared my Caddy for the winter. I did not use the Caddy a full month now and it started right up - perfectly. Like a modern car.

First up was washing the car. Still had a lot of dirt and dust from the drive to the Cadillac Big Meet in Kremsmünster.

Second task was to install my new hood insulation that I had laying around for some time now. Two months ago I sprayed the underside of my hood with semi gloss por-15. Looks very nice.

Be aware when installing your hood insulation. I got mine from REM. The front pre-cut holes do not line up with the original holes in the hood. Use the back holes (and middle holes) to line up the insulation and then locate the correct holes in the hood. See the picture below in installed condition. You may notice that some of the pre-cuts are too close to the boarder of the insulation.

Third task was to replace the thermostat gasket since it was leaking some water. I used a new gasket from fel-pro. Fits nicely. Let's see if it also remains leak free...

Fourth task: Find another A arm bushing shield for the driver side. As listed in the master parts book, there should be a shield over the rear upper A arm bushing shielding it from the exhaust heat. Does anyone has one for the driver side? See the picture below of my passenger side shield. GM part number is: 1492962
Attached two pictures, one showing my passenger side, the other one the master parts illustration page.

Fifth  task was to add some sae 90 oil to my differential. While doing that I noticed a little sticker around the filler screw. It said: "Use special oil for the controlled differential".


Question: Does that mean that I have a controlled differential? How can I verify that I indeed have a controlled differential?


Best regards,
Nicolas

so there is an identification number stamped on the front face of the carrier assembly at the end of the oil return passage.

My Caddy has indeed a controlled differential, because the stamping reads: G-2    (see picture attached)
Which is a controlled differential with 2.94-1 gear ratio.


Where can I get the correct gear oil for a controlled differential?

Hi guys,

So my steering parts, brake drum and tires should be underway now.
Today was again a quite nice October day - ideal to work on the car. Since I store mine in a old barn.

I finally attempted to remove the original real rosewood veneer on the dashboard. It is applied to a thin sheet metal. The sheet metal is then glued to the dash board.

The finish of my rosewood was peeling of and since I am restoring the other panels too, I wanted to have a complete look. I was able to remove the veneer without damaging it.
Here is what I did:

First, you need some tools. See the first picture. I used different sizes of scrapers. Also a putty knife is handy. Additionally you need a heat gun.

Second picture shows how I pealed the veneer of the dashboard. Gently heat the veneer while trying to loosen the glue with lateral and vertical movements with your scraper.

I found that the lower edge is usually more easily accessible and the glue is probably gone at the edges on the bottom. Also both ends of the veneer were already loose. I was "lucky" in the sense that the sheet metal has started to rust, hence adhesion was low.

That is basically all that is to it. Just be very careful with the heat gun. I "backed" my windshield washer lens in the process!  :(


Now I have to determine if I can reuse my original veneer of if I need to make me a new one. I was able to locale original Brazilian rosewood nearby. Some local companies still have em.

Let me know if you need a rosewood dash veneer - I will make a few more if there is any interest.


Best regards,
Nicolas

Quote from: DeVille68 on September 27, 2014, 12:02:12 PM
Where can I get the correct gear oil for a controlled differential?

I believe the original gear oil was SAE 90 weight gear oil, witch is equivalent to 80w-90 gear oil today.   

Quote from: Coupe Deville on October 14, 2014, 05:18:29 PM
I believe the original gear oil was SAE 90 weight gear oil, witch is equivalent to 80w-90 gear oil today.   

Yes, that is what I heard from my oil suppliers.

Here is what they told me:

• The norm "MIL-L-2105-B" required by Cadillac (this norm is mentioned in my Shop Manual for 68) is today "equivalent" by the API GL-5 standard. The paper API 1560 "Lubricant Service Designations for Automotive Manual Transmissions, Manual Transaxles, and Axles, EIGHTH EDITION, APRIL 2013" defines the purpose of these oils:
  

  Quote3.2 API GL-5
  The designation API GL-5 denotes lubricants intended for gears, particularly hypoid gears, in axles operating under various combinations of high-speed/shock load and low-speed/high-torque conditions. The performance specifications for API GL-5 are defined in the most recent version of ASTM D7450.




• Mineral or synthetic based oils. Viscosity rating in the range of SAE 75W/90, SAE 75W/140 are only possible with synthetic oils.
  They do not recommend to use synthetic oil for refilling if the axle was not out for a complete rebuild. Since it can wash out deposits.
• Viscosity rating of  SAE 80W/90 for a mineral based oil is also possible but only by the addition of VII (Viscosity Index Improver) additives. These VII additives can lead to more shear loss. Hence it will degrade the performance of the gear oil.
• A "normal" SAE 90 is the recommended oil. Especially for classic cars that you do not operate in extreme climate conditions. You hardly ever start the car at around -20°C.  Hence a SAE 80W/90  does not give you that much improvement in constant viscosity. You will probably operate your car in the temperature range 10-35°C, hence the cold-start abilities of say a SAE 70W/90 is not really needed.
• A too thick oil  is also not recommended because the gears will splash the oil around and when it is too thick it will form an oil foam which is not good. The oil starts to have air bubbles degrading the ability of the oil to lubricate the contact surfaces. Additionally a tick oil will not be able to flow as easily as a thinner oil between the tiny gaps between the gear teeth.
• Special additives are necessary for a controlled (limited slip)  differential. The additives will prevent knocking sounds. Try to get a pre-mixed oil, one that is specifically designed for the task as opposed to just adding some LS-additives later. 

Unfortunately there is no test procedure for testing the quality and effectiveness of the additives. You probably need to choose the oil that leaves the best impression.

I settled for the oil SUPER DUTY LS 90 (SAE 90) from a local Swiss company called Panolin. I think they also sell worldwide.


I hope these informations will be useful for someone trying to find an LS oil.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hi Nicolas,

Looks like you are doing very good work.  That is a car to be proud of.  Keep it up!

-mB

Quote from: mgbeda on October 22, 2014, 03:02:57 PM
Hi Nicolas,

Looks like you are doing very good work.  That is a car to be proud of.  Keep it up!

-mB

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your nice words! Appreciate it!  :)

Here are some more pictures of the rosewood veneer.
Still not sure if I should try to repair my original piece or if I should create a new one. I am in contact with a company that still has some original Brazilian rosewood veneer with the correct pattern and size.


There is a small area of damage to the wood, as you can see from the pictures below.
In some areas it also started to separate from the metal backing plate. And the backing plate is rusty. Just surface rust.


Any advice on how to glue the wood down to the metal again?
And how to repair the damage?

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hi guys,

A friend removed my old tires from the rims and I will now clean them and paint em gray.

As I was examining the five rims, I found that I have some original ones and some reproduction ones?!
Can anyone help me out on this one?

• Three out of five have a "double hump" - hence fully compatible with a tubeless tire.
• Two of these have "GM" stamped - shown in the first picture. And some other numbers, encoding the size of the rim: 15x6 JK
  Consider the second picture. What do these other codes mean? What does JK mean?
• One out of these three rims looks exactly the same but does not have a "GM" stamping. Instead it shows the logo of Kelsey Hayes. See the third picture. 
• The other two wheels (out of the five) have a green sticker on them with some part numbers and the Kelsey Hayes Logo. Compare the fourth picture.
  These last two rims are different from the other three in the sense that these two only have one "hump". Consider the last picture. On the left is a "GM" rim and on the right a "Kelsey Hayes" rim. I have marked the two humps on the GM rim with a green arrow. The Kelsey Hayes rim has only one hump. Note also how the middle of the rim is curved.

Can anyone tell me more about these rims?
From what year are they?
(one of them has the number "67" stamped on it - so I assume this rim was manufactured in the year 1967?

Is it save to use a tubeless tire on the two Kelsey Hayes rims without the double hump?

Best regards,
Nicolas



P.S: The correct color of these rims should be "gray primer" - at least that is what my Master Parts Book tells me! So it seems that three out of five have the correct color.

and here picture 4 and 5

Hi Nicolas,

I don't know the answer to your question, but I'm sure someone out there will. I am also working on a '68 DeVille, and am learning a great deal about this model by following your blog.


Wes

Quote from: Bentley on November 03, 2014, 06:00:06 PM
Hi Nicolas,

I don't know the answer to your question, but I'm sure someone out there will. I am also working on a '68 DeVille, and am learning a great deal about this model by following your blog.


Wes

Hi Wes,

Thanks a lot for your kind words.
I hope someone will benefit from my shared experiences.

And I indeed found answers to my questions. Had to talk to a few guys in the tire business. They told me that it is essential that the rim has a "hump" on the outside, such that a tubeless tire has something to hold on to. The inside "hump" is just for double security and not necessarily needed because the forces acting on the tire will always push the inside tire side to the outside of the rim (that is towards inside of the car). That meant that the inside tire side is always held in place by the outer rim edge towards the inside of the car.

My description is probably a bit confusing, but it makes sense when you visualize the forces acting on the tire.

Hence, it is save to use all the above rims for mounting a tubeless tire.


Next step is to sandblast these rims and then paint them with some POR-15 gray paint.
Then waiting till the rubber arrives and I will finally have a new set of tires! :-)

Best regards,
Nicolas


P.S: I am not sure if I should paint my brake drum (the outside) with some high temperature paint. Just for protecting them against rust and dirt. Any experiences with the correct paint and such?

Hi guys,

Okey, so I was still tinkering around with my brake drums, not being sure what to do with them.

Luckily, today I discovered that the rear and front brake drums are not exactly equal. The difference is in the dimension of the hole for the wheel studs. The hole on the rear brake drums is about 15mm (~ 0.6'') and the hole on the front is about 16.2 mm (~ 0.64'')

The correct part numbers according to my Master Parts catalog are different too:
rear drum: 1490714
front drum: 1489392

The wheel studs for rear and front are also different. So be aware.
rear wheel stud: 1486229
front wheel stud: 1487867  (Stud: 1/2'' - 20 x  1-11/16 )

The shoulder length is different. (Dorman has the two correct studs)

I think the Dorman 610-134 wheel stud should be correct for the front? Or is it?
Its length is only 1-1/16 but it should be 1-11/16. However, I am not sure how they measure the length. With or without head.
Or maybe Dorman 610-159?


The guy that sold me my two reproduction brake drums ordered the wrong ones - two for the rear. And I was wondering why the outside edge of the hole for the wheel studs got lifted. The reason was exactly this 1mm difference in diameter.

So anyways. I won't use any reproduction drums on my car. I found an original front drum with hub assembly.
The original ones for the rear go back on the car today.
I will replace the grease seal and check the bearing on the front drums.


I also probably do not paint my drums, since they will not see severe abuse anymore. At least as long as I own the car! :-)
(No winter and only occasionally wet driving)


So I hope this little info regarding brake drums will be useful for those planing on doing a brake job.

Best regards,
Nicolas

hi nicolas:
i have available the front drums and brake system. drums mic out at 12.22. the entire braking system worked well when parked last week for disassembly in preparation for a disc brake install.
i am also removing the rear axle assembly in preparation for a lincoln mark v rear with disc brakes.
i have not seen the condtion of the rear drums yet, but the entire front braking system, hubs, bearings, shoes,  springs, backing plates and cylinders are sitting on the garage floor. if you are interested, email me. they are located in gilroy california.
thank you.
mario caimotto

Hi mario,

Thanks a lot. I just replayed by mail.

Very nice. And the front disc brake kit is from cpp? Or from another car?
I did not know that the lincoln mark v brakes will fit. Need to keep that in mind - just in case.

Best regards,
Nicolas

have a 68 DeVille Convertible, have to replace the heater core, which direction do i start from, under the dash or on the firewall?  Thanks

Quote from: W Smith on November 28, 2014, 02:33:18 PM
have a 68 DeVille Convertible, have to replace the heater core, which direction do i start from, under the dash or on the firewall?  Thanks

Hi
Ahh, I don't really know.
Maybe someone else can help?

I noticed that I did not update my "blog" in a long time. So here are some updates.

I finally received my new tires from Diamond Back. Looking good.

I removed the last piece of rosewood - the dash board insert. I used a heat gun and some different size scrapers. Go very easy on the heat, it should just make the glue enough flexible to go be able to lift the wood with the backing plate. I was able to remove the wood without any damage.

First pictures shows the tools.
The second shows how you can reach under the wood and backing plate to gently lift it.
Third picture: some residue remained
Fourth picture: Removed wood veneer
Fifty picture: Wood started to separate from the backing plate.

Now I need to do the same procedure to the wood as earlier done to the passenger side door panel insert. All the rest of the wood will be done in one go now. Need to find a way to fix the delamination of the wood and backing plate.

Rest of the pictures

Since I ordered new tires I thought it would be a good idea to paint my rims a "correct" gray color. According to the manual the correct color is a "primer gray".
I have three original wheels and two "reproduction" Kelsey-Hayes wheels.

First picture shows fourth wheels. The black rims are the Kelsey-Hayes wheels. All are quite rusty and not nice anymore.
Second picture shows the label on one of the Kelsey-Hayes wheels.  I don't know what the numbers mean? Anyone?
(15x6 makes sense but the rest of the numbers?)

The third picture shows the difference in construction. The left one has a "double hump" as opposed to the right rim which is a "single hump". The double hump is "safer" in the sense that the tire is kept in its position on either side. Single hump is also no problem since the tire on the "no-hump side" is always pushed outwards. Hence there is no danger that the tire will slip inwards.

Fourth picture: GM stamping
Fifth picture: Some stampings. 15x6 JK - what is JK? What are the the other numbers for? What is that logo?

more

I sand plasted my tires in the middle of January outside while snowing! Brrr... that was cold!
Anyways, I survived and the rims were ready for paint. Only problem: I could not paint the tires outside because the temperatures were (and still are! :D) around freezing point. So, I had to find a solution.
Luckily, I work for a company that paints their machines in-house. So, one evening I could use their spray booth along with my paint and tools. (first picture shows the spray booth). I used the POR-15 gray paint. Very nice to spray. I sprayed six light coats. I found that the paint works best out of the can - do NOT thin!

Turned out very nice - for a beginner anyways! The paint should just protect the rims from rust and weather. Only the wheel covers will be visible later anyways.

First picture: spray booth
second picture: spray tools
Third picture: before and preparation
Fourth picture: finished product!!

Nice thread.  Assume you painted whole wheel and not just the "rims".  Was wondering how the POR15 worked with a sprayer.

Quote from: Rob Troxel on February 15, 2015, 12:36:08 PM
Nice thread.  Assume you painted whole wheel and not just the "rims".  Was wondering how the POR15 worked with a sprayer.

Ah,yes. The whole wheel. So the rim is just the outside?
I meant the full wheel.

POR-15 is surprisingly easy to spray. So far I sprayed gray and semigloss black with a HVLP gun.
I am still a beginner but it worked fairly well.

You can, of course, apply it with a brush. But spaying gives you a smoother finish.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Great to hear POR can be sprayed.  The look is great.

Hi guys,

Since I've had the car it bothered me that the parking brake would release as soon as the engine starts. There is obviously something wrong with the vacuum release mechanims of the parking brake. It turned out that the vacuum switch on the neutral safety switch is missing and someone connected the vacuum line from the parking brake directly to manifold vacuum. So no wonder it released as soon as the engine started.

So I removed my switch and I am now looking for a correct 68 switch with vacuum connections.
Does anyone of you has one of those switches?

I have attached pictures of mine - in case someone is interested in an exchange.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Just read this thread, that is a nice car and your work restoring it is extraordinary.
When you asked about painting your brake drums, I always paint mine to keep them from rusting and looking new.
I use black or cast color engine paint, and never had any issues. 
I do it even on the vehicles that you cant see them without removing the wheels.
Keep us posted on your progress, and again nice work.
Russ

Hi Russ

ok, very good. I still have the possibility to paint my drums. (well, i need to remove the rear drums again, but easy since no wheels mounted yet).
I'll probably go with the POR-15 high temperature paint. Let's see.

Someone asked me, over private message, where the twilight sentinel is mounted. Since I do not have this unit I can not provide pictures. But the unit is basically under or in the dash. It has nothing to do with the funny little eye in the driverside pocket of the front grill. As far as I know, there is again a photocell which somehow activates power to the various lights of the car.

Maybe someone else can provide some more details about the unit and where to mount it exactly.

I have attached a few pages from the 68 shop manual. There is not much more information in either the Fisher Body Manual nor the Illustation or Numbers catalog.

Can someone else help?

Best regards,
Nicolas

second part of pdf (because of size restrictions...)

Quote from: DeVille68 on February 22, 2015, 11:51:19 AM
So I removed my switch and I am now looking for a correct 68 switch with vacuum connections.
Does anyone of you has one of those switches?

Maybe CadillacTim can help you get a neutral safety switch?

http://cadillactim.com/page3.html

Can anyone post a picture of a original 68 neutral safety switch with correct vacuum switch attached?

I think my switch is only a very good reproduction. Strangely my switch looks exactly the same as the one shown in the 68 shop manual. I have attached to relevant page below.

The vacuum part is not shown - I suppose it is mounted on the back side - hence not visible in this manual picture?

The part number is: 1993386   for 67-68 and the price was 9.60! :-)


Edit: Ok, so in the mean time I found some pictures of a 68 switch. The front side looks exactly the same as all the reproduction and versions for the other GM cars. But the backside is the important part of the switch!
Attached two pictures of a 68 switch

Best regards,
Nicolas

Today I tried to remove the complete steering linkage assembly from my car in order to replace the central link.
I planed to do this for weeks now but had to find a tie rod end puller first. I could borrow one from a friend of mine. I also borrowed a pitman arm puller from my mechanic. The shop manual has a good procedure on how to remove the linkage.

I started by pulling the tie rod ends - was very easy. Just insert the tool and turn the screw. Next was the removal of the idler arm attaching screws. Final task: Remove the central link from the pitman arm using the pitman arm puller tool. See the three pictures attached.

Well, the first part took me about 5 min and I fiddled with the pitman arm for about 2 hours - with no result...
"Dä värdammt värfluechti Saauchaib" would just not split apart!  >:( >:(


Does anyone have some good tips on how the remove the central link from the pitman arm?
Other tool? Heat? Special trick?

Any help much appreciated!!

Best regards,
Nicolas


P.S: I have now soaked that sucker in WD40 - let's see if that helps tomorrow.....

Nicholas,
Something in the pictures doesn't seem "Kosher".  I would suggest you pull the pitman arm off the gear box (it is keyed and can only go back on one way), and pull the entire assembly out from under the car.  You will then be able to get a better look at the assembly for diss-assembly.  The linkage doesn't look like it should be that "stuck".
Greg Surfas

Hi Nicolas,

When I took mine apart I had no success with a puller - ended up using a pickle fork and an air chisel.  Good luck!

Best regards,
Don

Today my "quest" in removing the steering linkage continued. I had ordered a pickle fork kit with air hammer adapter.
First I tried the air hammer - with no success. Too little force. Then I used a heavy hammer with no success either.
I had to call my father to help me. He used another heavy hammer and held on the opposite side against the joint of central link and pitman arm. Due to the observation that when I hammered on the pickle fork the linkage would flex a little because steel indeed is a spring and was absorbing all my hammering force. So he held against and after a few hammer blow the joint would separate.

I then started to separate the individual components. It turned out that the central link would have been reusable but the ball joints of the  inner tie rod were quite sluggish and the boots are cracked. So I need to replace both inner tie rods and maybe one outer tie rod for the passenger side. (This one was still the original from the factory!!! ) Depending on price I will leave the original since the boot is still good and its still quite firm.
Idler arm and the sleeves are in good condition.

As soon as I have all parts they will be sandblasted and painted with por-15.

Regards,
Nicolas

If you follow my blog you might remember that I restored my door panels and still working on it. Well the plastic piece which surrounds the door opening handle was still in bad shape. I was looking all over the internet and ebay for an replacement in dark green. Or a color in dark green. But I was never happy with the idea of painting the plastic in dark green. There had to be a better solution!

Well, a few days ago I saw an interesting video on youtube (well here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVKZ8GpTj7w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVKZ8GpTj7w)) where they restore a plastic panel with a heat gun!

Luckily, I work in a company where we have plastic technology experts. I asked them why this works. Well the reason is that the sun and the time dries out the plastic and micro cracks are formed. When you heat the top layer the plastic chains will re align and "close" the cracks, hence the full color will appear again. Mine was white in color instead of dark green - well it was still dark green but the cracks reflected the light in a way that it appears white or discolored. This trick of course only works with thermoplastics and especially with polypropylene. It does not work with duroplast (thermoset)!

The "trick" is to use a heat gun and very carefully heat to top layer just enough that it will "reflow" and fill in the cracks. You have to be very careful to not burn the plastic. If it is too hot there is no way back! But you can gradually "reflow" - take your time.

Well look at my before and after pictures!
Awesome isn't it?!  8)

Best regards,
Nicolas

By the way: My new tires from Diamond Back arrived three months ago and I had painted my wheels a few weeks ago.
Currently they are at my mechanics shop to be mounted and balanced.

Can't wait to see them on the car!  8)

Best regards,
Nicolas

P.S: Still need to finish the brakes and steering though....  :-\

I posted my latest findings regarding the brake springs in the my brake topic: http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=132601.msg296323#new (http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=132601.msg296323#new)

Best regards,
Nicolas

Past weekend I had some time to paint my new steering parts. I had to buy two inner tie rod ends, because my old one were pretty loose and the movement of ball joint was jerky.

I bought the two inner tie rod ends also from rareparts. They look very very nice. Ball joints are tight and firm. Good quality machining work.
I do not yet know how they ride / steer - but I expect the best.

I just painted my pieces all POR-15 sating black. Next weekend, they will be mounted to the frame and pitman arm again! :-)

Here are some new vs. old pictures (old maybe original? Can some one tell?)
and with fresh paint! :-)

Best regards,
Nicolas

fresh POR-15

And my new Diamond Back II tires are finally mounted and balanced on my freshly painted rims. Still have the blue coating on the tires.

Best regards,
Nicolas

First drive since 8 months!  8)

Here are some updates I did to the car since last august:

• New DB II tires with special double whitewall just like the original diagonal tires!  8)  (thanks David!)
• my freshly painted wheels
• tire and wheels balanced
• New steering components (central link and both inner tie rods) from rareparts. (cleaned and painted with por-15)
• Wheel alignment and steering adjustment all done
• Fresh transmission filter and oil
• Fresh oil for my controlled differential
• New original brake drum for the front left
• Replaced brake springs on the back
• All drums cleaned, lightly sanded the friction surface to remove irregularities
• All drums freshly painted. I used POR-15, as I did for the wheels
• New front wheel bearing seals
• Vacuum trunk release installed. Need to route the vacuum lines
• Replaced some old vacuum lines
• Repaired the radio
• Installed the inline condenser at the blower motor
• Some smaller details

First drive yesterday was fantastic!
Very smooth ride. Precise steering. Once you set your steering angle through the corner it goes. No corrections needed anymore.

Before, I had to constantly adjust the steering because the steering linkage was so loose and sloppy.
Brakes are great, need to fine tune those though. Sadly the brakes test stand of my mechanic was not working yet.

Will snap some pictures this afternoon with the hub caps on.



Still a lot of stuff to do. Like my wood veneer, 8-track, air conditioning, door panel, window switches and wiring. Neutral safety switch, autronic eye etc. etc...


Will see how the DBII will hold up, first 50 miles were great. Still noisy but that will take some time.

best regards,
Nicolas

Here are some pictures! Enjoy!  8)

some more. The front may need a bit more air pressure. Let's see

By the way: The pictures show one of the different places that you may be able to visit if you attend the Grand European 2015 in Switzerland.
http://www.cadillacclub.ch/GE2015/CLC_Grand_European_2015_Program_EN.pdf (http://www.cadillacclub.ch/GE2015/CLC_Grand_European_2015_Program_EN.pdf)
I will be at the meeting - if anyone want to meet with me or see some hidden places, feel free to send me a mail.

see you there!  8)

Beautiful Car code 30 Silverpine green. I owned one with a sandalwood interior and sandalwood top.

Quote from: Bill Young on May 20, 2015, 10:57:40 PM
Beautiful Car code 30 Silverpine green. I owned one with a sandalwood interior and sandalwood top.

thanks. Yeah, color and the lines were the main reasons why I bought the car!  8)

Hi guys,

I am still looking for some correct seat belt cover for the rear. I need some in dark green.

I have attached a picture of some that I found recently: Are these the correct ones for my 68 Caddy?

(the seller labels these as 68-72 Chevelle, Cutlass, 442 etc.)


Thanks!

no one?

Where can I find this information?
Does anyone has pictures?

Thanks.
best regards,
Nicoals

Hi Nicolas,
Let me look in my parts tomorrow and see what I can find. 
Regards,
Don

Are these the covers for the front seatbelts mount on the floor in the rear? I can look at my 68 Fleetwood later today and take pictures of what is there. I don't think the rear seatbelts have covers because they mount under the seat.

Quote from: dwbic on June 07, 2015, 07:13:43 PM
Hi Nicolas,
Let me look in my parts tomorrow and see what I can find. 
Regards,
Don

Hi Don,
Please do, thanks a lot.

Quote from: Highwayman68 on June 08, 2015, 02:24:13 PM
Are these the covers for the front seatbelts mount on the floor in the rear? I can look at my 68 Fleetwood later today and take pictures of what is there. I don't think the rear seatbelts have covers because they mount under the seat.

Hi, yes exactly! Those that are readily visible and easy to damage! :-)
Would be great, thanks!

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hi Nicolas,
Attached are a few pictures of the parts from my car - they are very similar to the picture you show, but are a one piece molded rubber part with no snap feature - they just push into place.  Hope this helps!

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1285.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa595%2Fdwbic%2FIMG_18831_zpsbt9f5xhn.jpg&hash=0686493078987dc0eacf0585639188bd89d3a483) (http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/dwbic/media/IMG_18831_zpsbt9f5xhn.jpg.html)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1285.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa595%2Fdwbic%2FIMG_18811_zpsjbkk4xu0.jpg&hash=a9f82c63536d9931315567479849005a5a7f60a4) (http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/dwbic/media/IMG_18811_zpsjbkk4xu0.jpg.html)

This view shows front of cover on one part, back of cover on the other.

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1285.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa595%2Fdwbic%2FIMG_18791_zpsjjhh8zue.jpg&hash=2828fa79bc21b48fe912712b0b7ee766ba34442a) (http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/dwbic/media/IMG_18791_zpsjjhh8zue.jpg.html)

Here is what is in mine

Driver side Top
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi877.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fab337%2Feldemya%2FSeatbelt%2520DR%2520T_zpszyllpvu8.jpg&hash=d493aa7c3e27b3b409a5dfc69cd5c7e5aa539946) (http://s877.photobucket.com/user/eldemya/media/Seatbelt%20DR%20T_zpszyllpvu8.jpg.html)

Driver Side Bottom
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi877.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fab337%2Feldemya%2FSeatbely%2520DR%2520B_zpsy9dpsq7r.jpg&hash=b63a9e9b12ce938a42a7439ee89cc33648fde6b9) (http://s877.photobucket.com/user/eldemya/media/Seatbely%20DR%20B_zpsy9dpsq7r.jpg.html)

Passenger Side Top
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi877.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fab337%2Feldemya%2FSeatbelt%2520PS%2520T_zpszykxjxz1.jpg&hash=c086cd14b7243703509d7ecccd9efb8fce344b1a) (http://s877.photobucket.com/user/eldemya/media/Seatbelt%20PS%20T_zpszykxjxz1.jpg.html)

Passenger Side Bottom
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi877.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fab337%2Feldemya%2FSeatbelt%2520PS%2520B_zpscsjyhcxn.jpg&hash=91cc38d8a2130c4d6a45fcf2eb591d95d3e41997) (http://s877.photobucket.com/user/eldemya/media/Seatbelt%20PS%20B_zpscsjyhcxn.jpg.html)

Yes those seat belt base covers you showed with the snaps onm the inside are correct for your 1968 DeVille Convertible. On another note don't be afraid of using SEM Products interior trim paint , the stuff works great when used in conjunction with their vinyl trim preparation spray that fully cleans and moistens the vinyl's surface. Just a thought.

Thanks guys! Consider yourself lucky that you still have your originals! :-)

I am looking for those in dark green for the last two years now....

Quote from: Bill Young on June 10, 2015, 12:25:28 PM
Yes those seat belt base covers you showed with the snaps onm the inside are correct for your 1968 DeVille Convertible. On another note don't be afraid of using SEM Products interior trim paint , the stuff works great when used in conjunction with their vinyl trim preparation spray that fully cleans and moistens the vinyl's surface. Just a thought.

So you suggest to by just the "generic" GM version - at least that the bolt is covered?

Any one willing to sell me some dark green (or any other color) correct seat belt covers for 68?

Best regards,
Nicoals

Hi guys,

I finally found time to update this restoration blog. I did various thing on the Caddy since my last post. And I also did a lot of road trips this year.
I will try to write and report on the work I did but not in chronological order.

I removed all my interior door panels again since I am still restoring my roose wood veneers. They are now being clear coated and so I need to remove the panels in order to attach them again. While the interior is removed, I started to continue my restoration of the wiring harness. I already restored the wiring harness within the passenger door, now the driver door needed some attention.

First you need to unscrew the kick panel (and the still plate first), then there is another little panel that hides the wiring harness. After that you should be able to just unplug the three connectors down there.
I disconnected everything from the door too (motor, light and controls). Next is to remove the two screws securing the rubber piece for the conduit on the door itself. The rubber piece on the conduit on the body sheet metal has no screws. I then pulled and pushed to harness from the body side through the conduit and removed it trough the opening in the door sheet metal skin.

See attached the pictures showing the harness behind the kick panel, the rubber conduit and the full door harness.

While removing the harness I also removed the door jamb switch and the power window relay.

Hello Nicolas,

Good job!  How long did it take to get the harness out of the car?  I may have to do something similar as all 4 of my '67's windows work, but only from the master switch.  I have removed the switch and I can see that someone has altered the wiring.  I suspect something broken in the rubber conduit.  My car has vacuum door locks so the conduit (to the driver's door) is packed with wires and hoses.  Does your car have vacuum door locks?  Did you use anything special to help with the removal of the harness?

Christopher Winter

Hi Christopher

Yes, my wires are also broken. If you look at the last picture you can see the part of the harness that goes through the conduit and there the wires break. Luckily only  non window relevant wires were broken.

I would start to diagnose the problem first and see which wires are really broken. The orange-black wire above has +12V from the battery. The red-white has power when the ignition is on. There is a power window relay (see my post coming up) that connects the orange-black to red-white. The cutout switch (emergency switch) does the same when you hold it in emergency mode.

So then, the power first goes through the red-white to the cutout switch. In the above picture you clearly see the three wires going into the cut-out switch: Orange-black, red-white and pink-black. In normal operation the cut-out switch connects red-white (ignition controlled) to pink-black. Pink-black then runs back through the conduit and supplies all other windows with power.

If you command your windows from the driver door the corresponding wire for up or down is connected to 12V and these wires run from the master switch through the conduit all the way to the corresponding window.

So here is what I suspect:
1) all the individual up and down wires (dark-blue-white; dark-blue;  brown;  brown-white; purple; purple-white) are ok.
2) Your power window relay (ignition relay) may function properly.
3) The only fault that comes to mind is the cut-out switch. This switch should connect red-white to red-black (supply of all other windows) in normal mode.
If this switch is broken, then no power will be supplied to the other windows.
4) or everything works as intended but the wire is broken....  :-\


First list the window console from the door panel and check if the switch is working correctly.

If it works you can the conduit by unscrewing the kick panels and use a voltmeter with the beeper and check the above mentioned wires from the window console to the unplugged connector.

This way you could also verify which wires are really broken.
If only one wire is broken you could maybe just try to cut the conduit open and repair this single wire.

Here is how I repaired my two relays - the ignition relay (or power window relay) and the horn relay

Ignition relay:

• It is hidden behind the driver kick panel. It is screwed directly to the sheet metal and sits in a little pocket.
• There should be a three-wire connector to it. The wires are: 18 Pink, 10 Orange-black and 12 red-white.
• It function is to connect red-white to orange-black when the pink control wire is supplied with 12 V by the ignition switch.

• The first picture shows the ignition relay with the three terminals
• The second picture shows the relay. The middle terminal is the power supply (orange-black). The right terminal is the output (red-white). The left terminal is the coil control wire (pink). The ground is not a terminal but the housing itself.
• If you look closely you see that some id*** soldered the internal wire of  the coil command (pink) right back to the coil end wire. So the coil start and end is on the same potential - hence the relay will never function.
• This relay works by supplying 12V to the pink wire. Power then flows through the many windings and creates and electric field. This then "sucks" the metal bow down and connects it to 12V (orange-black). The bow is made out of two pieces, because the middle piece will eventually touch the coil core, which is also on 12V, and hence a very stable connection results. This is needed because this relay is always on and needs to supply lots of current
• So the third picture shows how I removed to wire you can see in the second picture (the one that comes around from the back. Now I soldered a wire to the end of the coil wire (on the other side of the coil). This wire then has to connect to ground - that is the housing.
• The housing should have a spot where they originally soldered or crimped the wire to. I just run a drill bit through and passed the little wire through there and soldered it on.

So, this little soldering exercise saved me about 120$! (relay, shipping and tax).

Horn Relay or Buzzer

• The horn or key in buzzer is mounted on the firewall on the left to the steering column. It is mounted with plastic screws.
• It has four terminals. Red is the main 12V supply. Dark green is the "output" that supplies 12V to the horns. black-white is the horn switch. and white does to the ignition switch and further to the door jamb switch
• Description of the horn: Consider the schematic of the horn relay below. The horns are wired directly to ground (terminal 3, green wire). The terminal 1 is the supply by 12V. The horn blows when connected by the relay to the 12 volt source. The relay is actuated by the horn switch which connects the end of the coil to ground. You can see the end of the relay wire connecting to the left stem. The start of the coil is supplied by the red wire to 12V. So when you depress your horn switch you close the circuit around the coil from 12V to ground, this flow of current then creates a electric field which pulls the tap down and connects terminal 3 to 1 -> horn blows. 
• Description of the buzzer: The buzzer system has its own tap, which is normally closed (n.c). In the schematic below the buzzer system is drawn on top of the horn system. So normally when your key is in the ignition and the door is closed. Hence the terminal 4 is open.
  
  Power ist supplied to the solenoid by terminal 1 (always) and when the door jamb opens the switch grounds the wire / terminal 4. Hence current flows through the solenoid and through the normally closed buzzer contact to the door jamb. This then pulls the lever towards the solenoid and cuts the current. The solenoid basically disconnects itself from the power. The lever then jumps back, contacts again and is lifted by solenoid again. What you hear as a buzzer sound is the solenoid vibrating.
  
  The horn will never blow, because the distance the horn lever needs to travel is much larger than the distance the buzzer needs to overcome.

My buzzer was not working and after oping the relay you can see that the black wire is broken off its base (terminal 4). Picture 2 below.
So I then just soldered a new wire to the terminal 4 and the top of the lever and voilà the buzzer works again! (see picture 3)

I could save again about 100$ worth of shipping and tax.

Hello Nicolas,

Thanks for the detailed write-up and pictures.  Some months ago, when the weather was warm, I did some preliminary testing on my power window wiring.  As noted earlier, I got as far as figuring out that someone had "modified" the wiring.  Since my car is outside, I have to wait until warm weather returns to resume my window wiring fix.  I have the shop and body manuals for my car, and your post here will compliment that information.

Christopher Winter

Still looking for some interior pieces in dark green. I am missing the seat belt covers for the mechanism and those for the screws. I am also missing one cover for the power seat rails.

Anyone?

Nicolas,

Do you want the parts in the original color or are you willing to paint them?  If you are willing to paint them I may have the parts you need in my parts car.  I used SEM Color Coat and have changed the color of the dash on my project and the result is pretty impressive.  Let me know. 

Before
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1285.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa595%2Fdwbic%2F68%2520Cadillac%2FIMG_28641_zpskprfxeom.jpg&hash=0f83d35506f46c8058a2238d00e1deaf5ac4ead5) (http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/dwbic/media/68%20Cadillac/IMG_28641_zpskprfxeom.jpg.html)

After
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1285.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa595%2Fdwbic%2F68%2520Cadillac%2FIMG_28681_zpsoae67eyj.jpg&hash=06060b205dedb58ae6f5ad47b0fd091cca8f8c1b) (http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/dwbic/media/68%20Cadillac/IMG_28681_zpsoae67eyj.jpg.html)

Don

Yes, very impressive paint job!

Hello all,
A short note in regards to the ignition relay for the power windows on the 67-68 cars.  Since these are not visible use a modern 50 amp rated relay that works like the original.  I did that on my 67 Eldorado when I had it completely apart.  It was less than $12 at the time.
I have not kept up with the restoration blog, sorry.  I think it might have been Nicolas who inquired about the Dk. Green covers?  I have the covers but not that color.  Someone else inquired about a upper control arm heat shield on the left side.
I have started my 68.  The body is ready to come off the frame, engine is in machine shop.  I still haven't decided what cam to use, leaning to the MTS #5.  The engine is bored +.040 & crank is .010/.010.
I do most all, except body/paint, of the work myself, so it is slow going.
Good luck,
Larry

Hi Don

ok, very good. Well I don't have much choice. I'll have to try painting them. Could you send me some pictures of the parts you are willing to sell?

Hi Larry
Thanks for your reply. Don't worry - I am working on mine since more than three years now! :-)
What covers do you have? Those for the seat belt screws?

Send us some pictures of your restoration!

Best regards,
Nicolas

Well, just got started on the car.  I will have to read how to post pics.  I think I have spares of both flexible & hard covers.  I don't get out too much in the cold.
Larry

Hi Larry

You can upload the pictures by clicking on "Attachments and other options" just below the text window.
Let me know what you have.

Why would you want to upgrade the cam?
Any substantial power gain?


Hi Don
I guess I need to buy some parts in different color and try to paint em. What pieces do you have?

How did you match the color?
I could not find dark green as a standard color on the SEM website.


They write that their system is not a dye but a paint. What is a dye?


Best regards,
Nicolas

Today I finally finished all the repair work on my interior panels. The last panel that needed work was the passenger side rear panel. (Picture 1)
When you look closely you see that the carpet & panel is badly warped. (picture 2)

So I had to fix this issue. I started by removing the carpet with a heat gun and a scraper. (be careful with the heat! The carpet will melt immediately!) (picture 3 and 4 and 5)

After removing the carpet I needed to figure out a way to remove the old glue. I did not want to use a sandpaper or a machine because the heat would make the glue flexible and the sandpaper would get clogged. So I used a high frequency vibrator with a scraper attached. The tool is called "fine tool" (www.finetool.com)
Picture 6

After that I sanded the area with a 60 grid paper. Picture 7

Picture 8 shows the large recess. The hole there is for mounting the panel in the car.

Picture 9 shows my little epoxy lake! :-)  I just used about 50gr of epoxy for the first run. Just make sure that your orientate the panel such that it is flat. I still put some tape around the edges  because the recess was so large. A second "goat" of about 20gr was needed after a few hours of curing.

In the meantime I cleaned the carped thoroughly (picture 10) You can straiten the carpet with a little help from the heat gun.

Picture 11 shows the amount of "build up" that was needed to make the panel smooth again. Picture 12 shows the area sanded smooth, ready for gluing the carped on.

And finally, picture 13, shows the restored panel with a nice flat and clean carpet!
:-)

Came out real nice.


Hope this little description will encourage you to work on your panels as well!

Best regards,
Nicolas

next set of pictures

last set of pictures

Nicolas,
Can you provide the link to your video of pulling the body off the frame?
And the parts I had for seat belt covers are not usable, sorry.
My restoration blog would probably be best located on the Modified Forum as I plan on many major upgrades inside & outside of the car.
Thanks, Larry

Quote from: DeVille68 on January 16, 2016, 02:39:19 PM

Hi Don
I guess I need to buy some parts in different color and try to paint em. What pieces do you have?

How did you match the color?
I could not find dark green as a standard color on the SEM website.

They write that their system is not a dye but a paint. What is a dye?

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hi Nicolas,

Are these the parts you are looking for?
http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/dwbic/media/68%20Cadillac/IMG_30571_zpsgkpynfkd.jpg.html
http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/dwbic/media/68%20Cadillac/IMG_30601_zpsfz4adviq.jpg.html

I also have the covers for the power seat rails - both sides (didn't take a picture)

Don

Nicolas,

Regarding the SEM Color Coat, the colors on a computer screen (and even on the cap of the spray can) are difficult to match from.  I tried one color that I thought would match, but it was too light a shade, so I tried another that appeared darker and it matched pretty well.  I don't see much for green in their colors - you may have to look into another brand of vinyl paint.

Best regards,
Don

Quote from: cadman56 on January 17, 2016, 01:24:02 PM
Can you provide the link to your video of pulling the body off the frame?

Hi Larry,

My car is still in drivable condition! Luckely.
I don't plan on doing a full restoration --- ever?

But you might read don's blog and look at his pictures. He is perusing this major project. 

Hi Don,

Looking at the pictures I say yes. But the ones for the seat belt screw at the floor are broken?
I am also missing the rail cover on the passenger side.

Regarding color: Hm.. have to ask and google a bit.

Thanks!

Next update on my rear side panel: On the backside of the panel there were two cracks. The panel still showed good structural integrity but I wanted to fix these cracks anyway. Picture 1 and 2

So I started out by grinding a little groove into the cracks, enlarging them such that the epoxy and the fiber glass would bond better to the panel. Then I sanded the area with a rough sandpaper. Then I cut some fiber glass such that they would fit the area and also such that they would "go" around the edges. With some "re-leave" cuts.
Then I mixed only about 30gr of epoxy and "primed" the area before butting the fiber glass on the cracked area. I then massaged the epoxy such that the fiber was fully soaked.  The last picture shows the drying process. I will need to do quite some sanding to get the restored area smooth again. You don't want that this portion sticks out because your panel might not fit as tight anymore.

Okey, so I did not update this thread for a long time. A lot of work done though. In the mean time I was also at the GN 2016 in Vegas. Was very nice! Beautiful weather. Got some interior plastic parts from Don.

This weekend I finally had time to work on the car again. Interior is still out, I am adjusting the windows. Now is my last opportunity, because I don't want to remove the door panels again. So I need to make sure all the windows fit and seal perfectly against the roof rail and the back windows.

The task of adjusting the windows is quite simple but takes forever. You only have a change of doing it properly if you work in increments and take your time. Loosen the screw, adjust by one or two turns. Tighten the screw again. Get up, window up and down. Sit down again. Loosen the screws.....ow boy. I am tired...

Well first I had to fix one screw for adjusting the window rail position/angle.  The threads were gone. First I had to make me a thread insert ( size M4 ) out of aluminium on my fathers lathe. Then I removed the bad threads and cut a M4 thread on the thinner shaft of the original screw, also using the lathe. Then I installed the thread insert by squeezing it with another screw. Actually, there is a tool you can buy, but I didn't had it.

It worked perfectly and I was able to adjust the window just right.

Next week I hope to do a water test - check how good the windows seal. One problem remains though. I think someone "played" with my roof and convertible top mechanism. I could not adjust the windows high enough such that they would go deep enough into the roof rail weatherstrip. The middle bow of the top mechanism seems to be too high. So my idea is to remove the weatherstrip and but some neoprene lining under it to lower its position. That should help to make a good seal - against water and wind noise.

I finally finished my wood veneer restoration.

Before and after: my freshly restored original Brazilian rosewood veneer! 68 was the last year Cadillac used real wood. The insert that OPGI sells is wrong, wrong type of wood. I found the correct wood, if enough people are interested I might reproduce some.

The wood itself is glued to a thin metal sheet. This assembly is then glued to the instrument panel. I just used a professional contact force glue.

It turned out very good. What a difference this wood make. I was driving around for three years now without the wood (just the shiny back panel)

I also fixed my passenger side window switch. The cover that holds the clips in position was missing. Since I didn't had a replacement I just made my own cover out of Plexiglas. As you can see, it worked quite well. Not pretty but functional. I used a soldering iron to "melt" the studs and the new Plexiglas together. Then I wrapped the backside of the switch with electric tape to prevent moisture from entering the switch.


A few weeks ago I also repaired the wiring harness in the back seat area. Radio, courtesy light, cigar lighter. The courtesy light was cut up before with some stupid press fit clips. I removed them and soldered a proper connector to the ends. Now I don't have any open crimps hanging in the air, possibly making contact with the metal surrounding it. (In the picture it is the middle one, the white one)

I did blew a fuse  once while working / removing the back side panels. Those are still not in. Still working on them.

Since I had the car I was wondering why my driver side went window had so much play in it when I tried to open or close it. The window itself did not have too much play.

Well I found out that the vent window regulator was missing the bottom bushing and the casing had three cracks!
No wonder there was play in the mechanism. I guess this is still a relict of the damage to the driver side many years ago.
Now I had to buy a good used vent window regulator. Hope to install it in two weeks.

I also found out why my heating system does not adjust the temp or flap - well the transducer is missing!  :o ::)
It is mounted just below the glove box on the firewall just above the passengers feet.

Quote from: DeVille68 on May 22, 2016, 04:49:31 PM
I finally finished my wood veneer restoration.

Before and after: my freshly restored original Brazilian rosewood veneer! 68 was the last year Cadillac used real wood. The insert that OPGI sells is wrong, wrong type of wood. I found the correct wood, if enough people are interested I might reproduce some.

The wood itself is glued to a thin metal sheet. This assembly is then glued to the instrument panel. I just used a professional contact force glue.

It turned out very good. What a difference this wood make. I was driving around for three years now without the wood (just the shiny back panel)

I am interested!

Lots of work done in the last couple of days!

(1) My "new" vent window regulator arrived. I got it from USA parts supply. Came a described, worked good. Had to put some grease in it. I did fill a little zipper bag with grease and closed it. Then I cut a very small edge of the bag and pushed this edge into a opening of the regulator case near the gear. Then I squeezed the bag and "injected" the grease into the assembly. Worked amazingly well.

(2) I did adjust my windows for a better seal but I could not bring the windows up enough to seal perfectly with the top roof rail weather strip. So I did glue some Neoprene window setting strip to the backside. I controlled the amount of "lift" by putting one, two or three strips of Neoprene to the backside. Then I glued the "assembly" back to the roof rail and secured it with the screws.  No almost all the wind noise is gone and no water enters the cabin no more.

(3) I also found another source of rattling noise - the bracket for mounting the driver side mirror made contact with the door skin. So I fixed that by pushing some Butyl in between them - now it is silent again! Especially when closing the door!

Hello,
I need some help from you guys. I replaced my air filter with an K&N unit (E-1510). Unfortunately the height of this filter is about 2mm more than my old one was. So it will fit fine, you won't notice a difference very easily. I noticed this difference only because I noticed that no air would be sucked through the snorkel! (while in idle)

I don't want to replace the filter with another one, so there are only two options for me. Remove some material of of the filter or replace the air filter lid gasket with a new rubber, which will seal better on the edge of the air filter base.

Does anyone know where I could get a new air filter lid gasket / rubber?

Ok, so I think it is sad that nobody replied to my question. Nobody replaces these gaskets or nobody has issues with them getting old??

Well I found a local company where I bought a sponge rubber strip 9mm by 9mm in black. I removed the old hard rubber and laid the new one in the groove. Now the air filter lid seals properly against the base and the air is drawn through the snorkel only. 

The picture below shows you in detail which gasket I mean. In the right corner you can see the new rubber strip.

Since years I had an issue with my door panels. I could mount them correctly and put all the screws in, but after shutting the door once the whole panel would pop up and would not align with the rear shelf panel.

Over the years now I noticed this issue one other Cadillacs too. I searched for some kind of fixture but was never satisfied.

Just recently I finished all the wood restoration, quarter window and harness. So I had to do a final assembly of my panels. I now created a special bracket which I would mount on the lip inside the opening for the window channel. I added a threaded hole to it too. I also drilled a hole through the weather strip on the panel and through the backing metal strip. I then put a screw through the rubber and the metal strip and aligned it with the new bracket below.
This way I can tighten the edge of the door panel down to keep it from popping up and achieve a perfect alignment with the rear shelf panel. 

Check out the pictures below.

The last picture show the view from above. You can see that I added another metal strip to distribute the force in order to not destroy the weatherstrip. I painted it black and no one will ever notice!

Hi guys

I forgot to upload some pictures of my finished interior. Well, the wood and the door panes are finished.
Still working on the seat belt covers and the metal covers that go on top of the rear shell panels. They cover up the hole where the convertible top mechanism go.
Mine are rusted and I need to find a way to replicate the texture and color. (dark green).

But here are some pictures.

This is what a wrong position of the heat riser valve can do to your carburetor!

--> Burning the gaskets and warping the metal.

Just a few weeks before I had installed my freshly restored carburetor. Well I disassembled it again just to be sure. No damage luckily.

The heat riser valve was not stuck - I had secured it in the wrong position. (almost closed)
Look at the two pictures below:
"heat riser open" - which shows you the position of the valve (view from the bottom of the car, upwards) when it is fully hot.
"heat riser closed" - which shows you the position of the valve when cold.

Notice that my valve is missing both end stops (the two tabs you see on other photos)

All other heat riser I have seen work with the same two positions, they just look differently.
Here is a website of a company that produces heat riser valves: http://www.hamiltonmanufacturing.ca/hrv.htm



I had mine working too long in the wrong position and the heat also damaged that rod, so I need to remove the valve in the winter and try to repair it.

I am also trying to balance my tires better, because I have some vibrations at 30, 60 and 120 km/h.
Not harmful but annoying. I had my tires balanced by a shop about a year ago, but I was not there and they did put the tires on the machine by the hole of the wheel.
Well this is not the correct circle or central point of the wheel on the car.
Thus I made myself an adapter plate which slides snugly on the shaft of the balancing machine but mounts to the tire/wheel just as the axle hub would.

This way I can be sure that I balance the correct central point.

This central point of the five wheel lug studs could still not be the same as the central point of the outside diameter of the tire itself. Hence I will check the roundness of the tire using a dial gauge.

I also balance my rear brake drum - I am just curious if they are indeed balanced or and if by how much I need to correct them.
Will be interesting I keep you updated.

Regards,
Nicolas

That is an interesting plan, however I would suggest that they first run a balance test with just the adapter that you made to verify that it will not cause an imbalance that would be added to the wheel when the wheel is being balanced.

Exactly! :-)
That is what I also told em. They then said, well, then we just mount the the brake drum and the wheel and balance them together.  Also not too bad, but I won't be able to rotate the wheel in the future unless I balance them again.

So my four steps are:
1) balance my tool
2) balance the rear brake drum by them self
3) balance the tire
4) wheel and brake drum - just to be curious. (no actual balancing just measuring)

Hope I can do this next week.

Hello Nicolas,

The interior looks great.  From the photos, the wood and the green finish are a very nice contrast.

If you plan on driving in cold weather, the expense of a new heat riser valve may be justified.  I do not plan to do much cold weather driving so I replaced my heat riser with a spacer I made.

Although it won't hurt, your efforts at balancing your drums/wheels/tires may not eliminate the annoying vibrations.  Occasionally, you may see some brake drums that have small, rectangular pieces of steel spot welded to the drum.  This may be the factory attempt at balancing the drum.  There are many variables to consider when trying to obtain perfect concentricity of the front wheel/tire assemblies:  wheel bearings, spindle, wheel bearing adjustment, position of nut and cotter pin, brake drum, wheel, condition of center hole in wheel, condition of lug nuts and holes, tire, and inflation pressure, not to mention the condition of the steering and suspension components and alignment.

The adapter plate is a good idea.  If the shop insists on balancing the drum/hub/wheel as an assembly, you can always match mark the wheel to a stud so that you can replace the wheel in the same position relative to the hub.  Keep up the good work.

Christopher Winter

2) As I mentioned earlier, I installed the braces under the hood connecting the two fenders. Now I have driven some 400 miles more on highway and in the mountains. These braces really make a difference. I would recommend to install these if you drive on twisty roads.

Interesting, Only on convertible models . Cadillac omitted those braces that v out from the firewall to each fender well. If a convertible was ordered with automatic level control...you got one brace because the ALC pump hangs from it. Snap Plugs were placed into the fender well holes. (See image)

Hi V63

Yes you are right.

Since I do a lot of twisting mountain road driving, I thought I put those braces on. And they do make a difference. Maybe not noticeable when driving mainly on flat roads.

Success! No vibrations anymore!  8)

Every wheel & tire needed about 30-60 gr of weight (on both sides). Some where even better without the weights at all. So now I had em balanced to 0/0 - very nice. When I then added the brake drum the balancing machine showed that some weight was needed. But since the shop operator had never put a tire with a brake drum on the machine he couldn't really tell if this result was normal or not. So we just let it be and well it turned out to be good without additional balancing of the brake drum.

Machine was not able to balance my adapter plate - too little mass and hence force. Also the brake drums where not enough to be balanced on their own. Maybe not the best machine I had access to. Balancing with or without the adapter plate really made a difference of about 5 to 10 gr on each side.
Well now, you can argue which measurement is better....in my opinion balancing with the plate is better.....


Important note:
- Try to find those special weights with the long attaching piece such that they allow the chrome wheel cover to be mounted.
- I did not had those. So I just used regular weights on the inside of the wheel.
- On the outside I attached special flat weights (standard weights today?) with adhesive on the second stepped surface
- Now the weights are not in the same plane, make sure you can set this in your machine.
- Make sure you have your tires properly inflated.

Here is a picture at the shop with tires and balancing machine.
I painted my wheels and drum about 16 months ago - paint still hold up great! I painted them with POR15.
Next, I will measure if the tires are really round - I am just curious. And I need to increase positive caster, to give me more return force leaving a curve.

Best regards,
Nicolas

I am ready for a proper engine tune up - my timing light with advance and vacuum gauge just arrived. Also tachometer and dwell available. I have a HEI system installed.

--> Could anyone provide me with a pdf section of the shop manual on how to tune a cadillac Hei System?
--> How can I determine from which model or year my HEI system is?

(in the 68 shop manual this is within section 6 - engine electrical)

Thanks a lot!
Best regards,
Nicolas

Hi Nicolas,

I don't have a Shop Manual that addresses HEI system, but, if you haven't already seen it, maybe this thread will help.

http://www.modifiedcadillac.org/forum/index.php?topic=7202.0

Best regards,
Don

Thanks Don. Well before I check the timing I need to find top dead center. I noticed that someone had but the pulley 180° wrong on the crank. The notch on the pulley is completely off. But in order to be able to find TDC I need to be able to turn the engine precisely.
I tried with the starter motor, but it is not accurate enough.
There is a thread in the middle of the crank pulley, it should be a 9/16 fine
I hope I can put a screw and ratchet on it and turn the engine this way.

I just read an interesting book about the history of Cadillac from 46 up to 2004. It is quite interesting, no technical details but it explains the management decisions and the consequences thereof. The book is called: "The Cadillac Story - The postwar years" from Thomas E. Bonsall

I am also in the middle of restoring the A/C system. I had to buy a transducer because mine was missing. Now I also removed the A/C dash unit because vacuum was leaking from the unit. It is quite difficult to get the unit out. There is very little room. To most problematic was removing the wire terminal from the unit - I had to use a lot of force.

The rotary vacuum valve was full of crud and dirt had cut small grooves into the surface. See the pictures below.
Otherwise the unit looked good. I removed also the lens to clean it out. Re-greased the joint of the lever mechanism.

The last step I need to do is to put a tap and screw into the rotary valve - since I had to drill the rivet out to be able to separate the valve.

Quote from: DeVille68 on June 29, 2014, 01:28:25 PM
Recently, I also added my kick-down switch that I got from Tim.
Solenoid of the transmission does work, so it was just a matter of bolting it in. The shop manual has a nice explanation how to mount it such that the kick down is activated at about 60% of throttle.
The pictures below show some more details of the setup.

Regards,
Nicolas

P.S: I think my throttle return spring is wrong. Should it be shorter and attached to the tab of the kick-down & dash-pot plate?
Where can I get that spring? Are the different stiffnesses?

Nicolas,

Nice work. You have done a Superb job with the car. The green is nice and the wood is gorgeous. The tires - sometimes the diamondbacks (and coopers are said to be worse) sometimes don't balance correctly. It also could be bent wheels. My tires each only take about 20g weight in one place to balance.

Now a question from earlier:


On this particular post (from 2014) I notice you have that crazy actuator arm for the kick down switch installed in pic 2. It looks about right, the shop manual is not very helpful on this. There was only one spring.

How do you keep that from falling off the square shaft that is sits on? Mine keeps popping off and it is a real PITA getting it back on.  Right now its sitting on the intake manifold...

Thanks for your compliments!
Well, its a "rolling restoration" - already four years!

Regarding the kick down switch:
Yes, there is nothing holding the arm to the square shaft.

Although your throttle linkage should have a bracket with a hole in it. The square shaft should go partially in this bracket, hence the arm cannot slip from the shaft.
See the picture attached.

Best regards

About a year ago I installed my vacuum trunk release mechanism. I had an extra vacuum tank, which should be mounted inside the driver side fender. But the valve was damaged, it could not hold vacuum anymore. So I did not install the tank yet - the trunk release was only operational when the engine was running...

So now came the time to restore the vacuum tank!

• I did cut the top of the can with a small cut of wheel.
• The valve is riveted to the cap, so drill out the rivet. Picture 1 shows the pieces of the valve
•   You may notice that the red membrane is damaged at the center. It was not able to seal in the middle
•   The second picture shows the casting where I had cut a thread inside.
• The third picture show the idea: Instead of riveting I use a screw from the bottom up though the middle vacuum terminal.
• Obviously I need a path for the vacuum, so I drilled a hole into the screw. The middle vacuum stud has now a path though the screw. The fourth picture shows the final assembly
•   I cut a new membrane out of an old bicycle tube.
•   Picture five show the full assembly of the restored vacuum valve.
•   Picture six show the can and cap all blasted and ready for soldering
•   Finished soldering and pressure and vacuum tested the valve, shown in picture seven. The middle port should hold vacuum. The offset port is for the engine vacuum connection. It should allow pulling air out of the can but let no air in.  I used a hand vacuum gun to test both functions. The valve now hold easily 1.5 bar of air pressure and at least 0,7 inHg vacuum.
•   Picture eight: Ready for paint, I used POR 15 semi gloss black
•   Picture nine: Finished restored vacuum tank!
•   Next step: install the can into the driver side fender. In picture nine you can identify the two different brackets for the can for A/C (on the firewall) and the can within the fender.

I hope this little instruction helps you restoring your vacuum tank too!

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hello Nicolas,

Well done!  How did you hold the vacuum tank when you cut off the end of the tank with a cut-off wheel?

Christopher Winter

well, by hand!  :D It was just a very small blade, about an inch in diameter.

Quote from: DeVille68 on October 29, 2016, 05:39:37 PM
Thanks Don. Well before I check the timing I need to find top dead center. I noticed that someone had but the pulley 180° wrong on the crank. The notch on the pulley is completely off. But in order to be able to find TDC I need to be able to turn the engine precisely.
I tried with the starter motor, but it is not accurate enough.
There is a thread in the middle of the crank pulley, it should be a 9/16 fine
I hope I can put a screw and ratchet on it and turn the engine this way.

Hi Nicolas,
Regarding turning the engine precisely, are you familiar with a flywheel wrench? 
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1285.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa595%2Fdwbic%2F68%2520Cadillac%2FFlywheel%2520Wrench_zpsehetd74z.jpg&hash=ee388f0fe0b27e36af5c8aa80654810b87d19640) (http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/dwbic/media/68%20Cadillac/Flywheel%20Wrench_zpsehetd74z.jpg.html)
They work great for turning the engine right where you want it. 
Best regards,
Don

Hi Don

No, never heard of such a tool before! But could it work with the engine still in the car?

Hi guys

I just found a perfect sibling car for my convertible!  8) :D
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-Cadillac-DeVille-4dr-Sedan-/282252899141?ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:CH:1120 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-Cadillac-DeVille-4dr-Sedan-/282252899141?ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:CH:1120)

It is a 68 four door in silverpine green and dark green interior. Just like mine.
But it has cruise control and a remote trunk lock mechanism!

I wish I had the money and space to put those side by side!  8)

A few days ago I finally installed the vacuum thermo switch that I had laying around for about two years now. First I had to remove the distributor because the wrench was too big and it was easier to work with a bit more space too.
I took the manifold vacuum from the secondary lock out diaphragm, according to the shop manual it has manifold vacuum. I just put a Y-connector into the line and routed it to the thermo switch. The other connection is just the "normal" distributor vacuum port, which has "ported" vacuum.
Let's see in spring if this works as intended.


Second major work:
I removed the wiper dash unit, because I "fried" the lens about a year ago when I removed the wood veneer from the dash. In the first picture you can sport the burned part of the lens.
The unit is held together by three rivets, which I drilled out.
The inside is quite simple (I did not expect that). You basically just move a "cart" over a connecting plate below. The positions for low, middle and high are located by three little slots within the top part of the unit. The cart has two springs and two small balls, these balls push into these slots as you move the lever letting you know where the positions are.
The other side of the cart makes connection to electrical part of the "switch". As you move the cart it connects directly to the unit or via the resistor on the back of the unit.

The pieces where just a bit greasy but still intact. I will insert a small flat washer into the hole of the two spring to give them a bit more force. Because sometimes I missed the actual positions for low or middle.

Then I started sanding and polishing the lens. Basically it is quite simple - I started with 5000 grid paper, but soon switched to 2000. And then to 1500 and finally to 1000. Only 1000 removed (almost) all the burned traces. Once I was happy with the result, I switched to 5000 and sanded the lens smooth again.

After that I used a polishing rag and some compound normally for the car paint. I came out great! I can't believe that I saved my lens! I though I had to throw it away or fabricate something....



1. Picture: You can sport the burned parts of the lens
2. Picture: Disassembled
3. Picture: Cart with the two balls that slide along the top cover, as visible in picture 2
4. Picture: Washer wheel. It grounds when depressing.
5. Picture: There are two "springs" below it, such that the "wheel" returns and such that you have to hold it down to activate the pump.
6. Picture: Underside of the cart with the two dimples that slide along the connector
7. Picture: finished and polished lens!
8. Picture: another angle.

9. Picture: Vacuum thermo switch below the distributor.
10. Picture: Y-vacuum connection at the carb for the manifold vacuum source.


Coming up: putting everything together again!

Quote from: DeVille68 on November 14, 2016, 01:51:23 PM
Hi Don

No, never heard of such a tool before! But could it work with the engine still in the car?

Hi Nicolas,
It will work with the engine in the car - just remove the inspection cover and use it.  They sell for around US$25. 
Best regards,
Don

Hello guys

Not too much progress in the last weeks but I managed to completely wet sand, puff and wax the car. It now looks way better.
But unfortunately I now know every rust bubble and imperfection! And there are a lot of tiny imperfections. Damn...some day I might need to repaint the car...but that shall wait another 5 years!

So, otherwise I completed the restoration of my vacuum system. It is all fixed and leak free. Exept for the power brake booster.
I did put the A/C dash control back into the dash and startet the calibration as outlined in Tim's manual.

But something I must do wrong.
I says to disconnect the dash interior temperature sensor. Then to jump the yellow to green wire on the amplifier connector with a 150 ohm resistor. Then the voltage to the transducer (black and white wire) should be about 6V

Well, I measure 12.9 V!! (to ground)
The yellow wire (power supply) has about 12.97 - 13 V.   (to ground, that is batterie voltage)

When I measure the resistance on the amplifier I measure (between the two terminals) I get about 160ohms (ignition off) but I measure about 650 ohms when the ignition is on.

When I plug all the sensors back in I measure about 180 ohms. But still the voltage is way off. (around 12 V)

So then you should be able to hold the potentiometer with a screw driver and move the temperature dial until you get 6V. Well I can set the dial completely to max (with no travel on the potentiometer left) or to full cold. And the voltage at the transducer only varies by about 0.4V, still being around 12V.

I must be doing something wrong?
Any ideas?
Should I remove the A/C Dash unit again and test it on the bench? How could I do that?

Thanks!
Best regards,
Nicolas

Nicolas, is there no woodgrain on your dash? Is this standard for the De Ville convertible?

Quote from: 6262 on March 29, 2017, 08:00:01 AM
Nicolas, is there no woodgrain on your dash? Is this standard for the De Ville convertible?

Hi, no a DeVille Convertible has real rosewood veneer as standard (because it has leather as standard).

But, mine was cracked and in bad shape, hence I sanded the wood and sprayed new clear coat on it.
Refer to
post http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=130360.msg334363#msg334363
so see the restored wood veneer.


The Calais only had cloth inserts and a brushed aluminum instrument panel insert. (I think it is aluminum?)
The standard DeVille (closed car) had no wood when outfitted with cloth.
If the optional leather was ordered, then it would also receive the rosewood veneer on the doors and in the instrument panel.

--> Detailed information can be found in the data book of this year (available on the gm heritage website).

Best regards,
Nicolas

I refer again to my post about the A/C amplifier board.

So suddenly, I realized that my problem of measuring about 12V at the transducer wire (black and white) could be of a miss calibrated vent switch. I checked that the switch only sends 12V in vent or off position and sends 12V to the violet wire (which then goes the compressor clutch) only when the lever is in lo, auto, hi, fog, ice position. Also the lever should be in the auto modus for making this temperature dial adjusment.

So, the switches on the unit are not my problem. I even disconnected them - no difference at all.

What is strange is, that when I measure the resistance of the potentiometer of the temperature dial I measure reasonable values when the ignition if of.
I measure between 100 ohm and 850 ohm.

But as soon as I switch on the ignition I measure -200ohm or open loop. Very strange. I do not understand this.

How can I measure and verify the amplifier on the bench?


Best regards,
Nicolas

Quote from: DeVille68 on March 29, 2017, 09:32:26 AM
Hi, no a DeVille Convertible has real rosewood veneer as standard (because it has leather as standard).

But, mine was cracked and in bad shape, hence I sanded the wood and sprayed new clear coat on it.
Refer to
post http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=130360.msg334363#msg334363
so see the restored wood veneer.


The Calais only had cloth inserts and a brushed aluminum instrument panel insert. (I think it is aluminum?)
The standard DeVille (closed car) had no wood when outfitted with cloth.
If the optional leather was ordered, then it would also receive the rosewood veneer on the doors and in the instrument panel.

--> Detailed information can be found in the data book of this year (available on the gm heritage website).

Best regards,
Nicolas

Nicolas, thanks for the extensive answer. I have been following your thread from the beginning and know about your efforts on the wood veneer. It was the attached picture which got me thinking. I did not recognize that it was taken before the re-application of the veneer. Therefore I assumed you had left it out with good reason.

Hi Nils

Ah, oke. Very good. Thanks for reading my thread. I hope it helps others with the same restoration jobs. Or that it is just interesting to read. I myself read other restoration blog too, just because I think it is interesting.
I will add some more content over the next few weeks.

Best regards,
Nicolas

So my mistake was that I did not check for proper ground at the transducer. There is a insulation material with a quite big "bulge" with some more insulation material stuffed in it.

I accidentally but some screws in for mounting the transducer and I wanted to just mount it loosely to be able to calibrate it.
Well by putting it in loosely I accidentally screwed into the insulation material making no ground connection of course.

So, what I measured with my multimeter was basically the voltage drop across the multimeter itself. Since it has very high ohm a very very small current was flowing giving almost no voltage drop.

I then mounted the transducer correctly and now the amplifier along with all the sensors and temperature dial works perfectly.


One last issue that I have is with my rebuild vacuum valve. It lets a small amount of vacuum by in the vent position. Somehow the planes are still not perfectly flat. When holding the valve against a light source I can see a little light coming through, but only on the perimeter. Hope I can sand the valve half some more...

A little update:
- Since I grounded the transducer the mixing of heat and cold worked fine. I adjusted the voltage at the transducer according to Tim's manual.
- However, the blower would only work in A/C mode. (dial turned to 60)
- The reason was the power servo on the firewall. I had to resurface the valve again. I did this before but apparently not good enough. This time I used a 5000er grid wet sand paper and a piece of glass such that I had an absolute flat surface. I checked the surface of the valve halfs against the light using a straight edge.
- After that I replaced the rubber insulation around the base of the power servo.
- Now everything seems to be vacuum tight.

- To be able to test the system without running the engine (ignition not yet reinstalled) I used an external vacuum pump. However the blower would still only work in A/C mode. Until I realized that the heat sensitive valve in the heater valve is still open thinking that the engine water was still cold, and hence not allowing the vacuum blower switch to close. So I heated the valve a bit with my heat gun and voila everything works now. All flaps and all blower settings.



Since I already removed the dash, radio and ducting I decided to replace the insulation on the dash and firewall. I also glued new rubber around the A/C outlets on the ducting. Here are some pictures.

The last picture shows the new insulation. It is a special glass fiber material with an aluminum foil on one side. I did glue two or three sheets together. 

Found some factory markings!

1) On the passenger floor pan under the carpet under the dash - there is a large yellow "A"

2) On the insulation of the firewall under the dash. There is rubber molded piece that holds a pocket of insulation material against the firewall. On its side there is a large yellow "29"

wow, how time goes by!  Haven't posted any progress in a while.

Since May I have finished the A/C restoration, the car drives again. Had to repair the kick down switch (I will write something later about this). Had the repair the heat riser valve. The replacement unit is well made but something with the spring rate or weight does not match. Have to make some adjustments.

I also studied and totally rebuild the ignition system, new plugs, new wires, new condensers all around.
An advice to all: change your condensers! I have measured them using a proper capacity measurement device and they were only about 10%-15% lower than the rated capacity, but now with new ones (about 5% higher) I have a totally clear radio signal!

One question about the ignition system:
I have a later model HEI ignition system (do not know from which year)
But it seems that the centrifugal advance does not advance far enough.

The information in the show manual tells me that at 2000 rpm I need between 29° and 33° degree of advance at the crank.
The vacuum needs to be 0° at 8'' and between 22.60° and 25.20° at 14'' vacuum. (in degree of crank)

My vacuum advance canister seems to be correct, but my centrifugal advance only gives me about 23° at 2000rpm (with 10° of base timing)
So, with the factory recommended 5° of base timing the centrifugal would only add about 18° of crank degree instead of about 25°.

I have attached pictures of my centrifugal advance. The weights are labeled 130, the center plate 370 and the base plate 128

Can anyone help?

Can anyone provide some pictures or inside regarding the weights and springs for a 68 distributor?

Should I buy some generic HEI weight kit?

Hello.  Brief intro - I used to hang out here a long time ago but haven't been here for years.  I couldn't remember my user name so I have a new one.

By the time the HEI came out, the spark advance curves were quite a bit different than what your '68 had.  You can start with the stock curve in the HEI and see how it works for you.  Have you tested the distributor and verified that the centrifugal advance tops out at 2000 rpms?  If it does, then set the distributor so that you have 32º of centrifugal spark advance (just for a place to start) at that rpm with the vacuum advance unit disconnected.  Let the initial advance fall where it may.  It's not that important and should really only be used to set the timing when you know where the total spark advance tops out.  Drive the car a little bit with the vacuum advance unit disconnected and see if you have any pinging under various rpms and engine loads.  If you do, then retard the timing 2º at a time until it goes away.  If you don't have any pinging, you might try advancing it 2º at a time until you hear it, then back it off 2º.  That will be how much maximum centrifugal advance you want.  If this gives so much initial advance that the engine starts hard then you may need to get a weight and spring kit and design a curve with more range to it so that you have less initial advance while leaving the maximum where it is, but start with the stock curve and see how it works out.

Now connect the vacuum advance unit and see what happens.  The specs on your unit look like a good place to start.  If you have pinging under a moderate load that then goes away under full throttle, then you probably need to get an aftermarket vacuum advance unit that is adjustable.  You want the most advance it can give you under a light load but you want it to start taking out what it adds in pretty quickly under moderate throttle load.  By about 10" of manifold vacuum the vacuum advance should be all gone.  Also, I recommend not using the temperature controlled vacuum switch for the vacuum advance, but instead run the vacuum advance unit directly to a source of manifold vacuum.  In stock form there should be a vacuum line coming from a port on the back side of the carburetor and going to the temperature controlled vacuum switch.  Simply pull that line from the vacuum switch and connect it directly to the vacuum advance on the distributor.

Give this a try, see what happens, and go from there.

On another note, you may be interested to know that I have two '68s, a Coupe deVille in Silverpine Green with a black vinyl top and dark green cloth interior, and also a Deville Convertible in Grecian White with white top and red leather interior.  The coupe was purchased by my father in '73 and I purchased it from him in '87.  That car has been in my life for 44 years and I can never sell it.  I purchased the convertible in '91.  Both cars run and drive fine but are patiently awaiting new paint.  To see your particular car which is kind of a combination of my two is very interesting.

Hi Lynn

Thanks for your suggestions! I have not yet tried to drive without the vacuum advance. I have added about 5° of initial timing. Maybe need even more. I have created an excel sheet that displays the timing for speed and vacuum. Unfortunately the forum does not allow it to be uploaded. I will buy an advance curve kit and start modifying.

Send me some pictures of your two 68s!

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hi guys

You won't believe what just happened!

Past Sunday I was on the drive back from looking at an 80 Eldorado Biarritz (check out the thread here http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=145873.0 (http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=145873.0)). After an highway junction I again stepped on the gas and heard knockings from hell.
I immediately hit the brakes and left with squeaking tire sounds the last possible exit ramp! At slow speeds the knocking also stopped, so I carefully nursed the car the next 10 miles home. I could hear it knocking while accelerating.
At home I checked under the hood but I could not find anything wrong on the outside but heard a loud knocking coming from the back and down low of the engine. My immediate guess was a connecting rod knocking.

Luckily I already had taken Monday off of work and had an appointment with my mechanic to finally try to find my vibration problem. In the morning I drove the few miles over to him and we we able to locate the knocking from under the car (car on lift) with an stethoscope.
We were sure that one of the rear connecting rods must had come loose or some similar damage.

While doing the listening I noticed that the rear passenger side wheel was wobbling real bad --> So I had finally found my vibration problem!
We removed the wheel and brake drum and the drive axle would still wobble! I must have damaged this drive axle two years ago when I blew a tire on that exact side! I was chasing tire balancing problems since then!

So as always in life there is good and bad very close together. I have found my vibration issue but ended up with an damaged engine! :-D
And I have learned a ton in just a few weeks about 80's Cadillacs - unfortunately, I know have to spend my money on the engine rebuild.


So then I figured let's just pull the pan and see! I removed the pan (steering linkage, exhaust, starter and transmission cover) and removed all connecting rod bearings and sure enough Nr. 8 had a problem: it had spun the bearings!


Here are some pictures!
Pic 1: this is one of the pieces I found in the oil! There are some more trapped in the filter of the oil pump pick up!

Pic 2: Engine from below. I think it looks real good. No dirt or other damage.

Pic 3: Check out the bearings of the connection rod nr. 8 The surface is very bad and maybe seized too. The bearings seem to have been replaced once before, they are 0.010'' over.

Pic 4: This is the Nr 7 & 8 crank journal. The surface is quite bad. You can feel the grooves with your finger.

Pic 5: This is the Nr 3 & 4 crank journal - for comparing how a good surface may look like.



Now I have a lot of questions for you :-)

• I will have to pull the engine or the transmission to remove the crank. Which is easier?
• I found that 500cid.com sells bearings up to 0.030'' over. When I buy the bearings I do need to temper the journals?
• Or should I buy a new crank. Who sells good cranks?
• When i remove the crank do I have to replace the crank bearings too? Or just measure with Pastigauge and then decide?
• Any other suggestions or inputs? Have you done this before? Where should I be especially careful?

You are one lucky fellow.   Could have been worse.

Now, The engine will have to come out, and be stripped down completely.   There is no getting over this.

The Crankshaft will need machining, and don't purchase any bearings until you have been advised by the machine shop as to the condition of the crank, as in straightness, and what amount of machining will be required to bring the journals to perfection.   You might only need .020 undersize bearings.   One of the problems with spun bearings is that there is always the possibility that the crankshaft is damaged more than a simply bearing replacement, and in many cases, the shaft is cracked, so that needs to be checked as well.

Plus, the Connecting rod that suffered the spun bearing will need to be re-sized, so the piston will have to be removed, which means removing the head and therefore, I would recommend all rods being re-sized.

You will end up replacing the big end bearings, and the mains, as this much damage as shown in the pictures will have come from grit that has passed through the main bearings before getting to the big ends.

Plus, when you pull the pistons out, you might be surprised at the condition of the bores, and the wear, because the oil that contained the grit that caused the journal damage has been scraped up and down the bores by the cylinders.

Bruce. >:D

Wow, what a rotten bit of luck.  Sorry to hear of your catastrophe.  Yeah, the engine will have to be pulled and completely gone through.  You don't want any debris left setting in oil passages anywhere.

I would let your machine shop inspect the crankshaft and tell you whether it can be reused or not and how much the journals will have to be turned down.

When you have the engine completely apart, one good thing to do is drill a ½" hole through the lifter valley at the back of the engine.  That will prevent the lifter galley being half full of oil and sludge that never gets changed because it doesn't drain out and reduce it to a small puddle at the very back of the block.  I think in later blocks the valley was opened up more for this reason, but in the earlier blocks it's a good thing to drill the hole, and the only time that can be done is if the engine is completely apart.

I've rebuilt a couple of these engines and can help you out with any other questions.  Good luck with your rebuild.

Here are some old pictures of the cars.  The convertible is still in 75% original paint.  The paint on the coupe is so oxidized that it's not a good representation of the color.  Both cars need fresh paint now and are waiting very patiently.

Those are the best tips.  When someone knows a hack to get more oil going.
    Sadly like others have said, to do this right, you have to pull engine and likely that affected piston at minimum to do it right.     Sure you could get by with minimum parts but when you have a serious issue like this, the total repair is the better option.   You never want a repeat issue.
   
   

Yep, Bruce is on the money.

Engine out and a full once over. :'(

Yep, another vote for full rebuild. Years ago I spun the front most rod bearing in my 67 Camaro (327). Debris went *everywhere*. The machinist just kept finding problems. Everything got redone. The crank and that one rod had to be replaced, in addition to everything else that was done. Fully balanced while I was at it. It's been good ever since.

Hello Nicolas,

So sorry to hear of your mis-fortune.  I agree with the other posters who suggest rebuilding your engine.  If you do not have the measuring tools needed to determine the dimensions of the rod and main crank journals, cylinder bores, cam journals, etc., I hope you can find an excellent machine shop that has the staff and equipment to rebuild your engine.  You (and the shop) may never determine what caused the bearing to spin, so you may want to consider the rebuild with that in mind.  Ask if your shop can straighten cranks, and do align-honing.  Also ask what equipment does the shop have for re-sizing the crank end of the rods, and how they examine the block to make sure it is rebuildable.  You need to be confident that the shop knows how to look at your rebuild holistically.

This task will be relatively expensive, but if done correctly, you will never have to worry about the engine in your lifetime.  Good luck.

Respectfully submitted,
Christopher Winter

Nicolas,

Shortcut nothing on the rebuild.
Ask around on who does the best machine shop work in your area. (Mine went to a shop about 80 miles away from me)
Follow my break-in procedure, ie: Oil pressure done before installation etc etc.

Take ya time, we were off the black top for 4 months.

Hi guys

Thank you so much for your kind words and your advice. Based on those I will do the following:

• In about two weeks I will pull the engine. I do not have the original brackets for lifting the engine, I will make me some
• I will then remove the crank and have that analyzed. How much oversize is still ok? It is already 0.01'' over, so 0.02'' still ok? or up to 0.03'' ?
• According to the findings I will need a new crank or just bearings. I am going to replace all bearings anyways, main and connecting rod bearing. Who sells quality bearings? Mahle? Just a generic engine kit from fusick? Or should I buy from MTS (500cid.com) and order one of their rebuild kits?
• After inspecting the crank I will look at the cylinders and decide if I need to hone them and if I need new pistons. I will definitely replace all rings.
• Lynn could you post a picture of where this oil-hole should be drilled?
• After that I will examine the cam, determine the condition of the lifters and rods
• While I am in there could or should I replace the cam with a little higher performing unit from MTS? Is it worth the money?

Anyways, it will be an interesting project. Just sad that it happened so early in the season. I will post my progress and ask questions a long the way, so stay tuned! :-)

I do know a good shop just a few miles from my town. They have done the engine of my fathers 1930 Ford Model A and it turned out good. There is even a second shop that does restorations of Bentley, Riley and alike. 

Best regards, and thanks again
Nicolas

I don't have pictures of the additional oil hole in my engine.  These pictures come from the Big Inch Cadillac book by Doc Frohmader.  I don't think it's in print anymore, but if you can find a copy I recommend getting one whether you rebuild stock or hot rod it a little.

I have used MTS' MT10 cam and it's pretty nice.  It wakes the engine up pretty well, but if you do this I would also get oversize valves from MTS and port the heads and intake plenum.  If you just put a cam in an otherwise stock engine it won't do much.  If you do this get the MT10 or bigger cam.  The MT5 is about the same as a stock cam and not worth the effort IMO.

Also if you get a bigger cam, the stock Q-jet carburetor will work fine but you will probably have to open up the idle circuit a little bit.  These carbs were the early beginnings of emissions controls and the idle circuit is so choked down that it can't flow enough fuel for a bigger cam.  Frankly even with a stock cam it doesn't flow enough fuel for the idle circuit to work properly.  If you end up needing to know how to do this I can elaborate further.

One step further: the engine is out! Was not too bad. Spent about 2.5 hr disassembling the engine compartment (power steering pump, power servo, wires etc.)
I had to create my own hocks for lifting the engine because the originals were missing. I need to get those now.
I used some old metal and bent it such that the two brackets pointed upwards. Then I welded a bar in between. Worked quite good, but the engine was not quite balanced. Had to use a strap towards the front of the engine to get the engine level.
Creating those brackets took a while, the actual removal of the engine is quite simple. Remove the nuts from the engine mount, remove all bolts between engine and trans, and then remove the three bolts securing the flywheel to the turbine. Then you need to pull the engine about 2 inches forward to free it from the two guide pins that reach into the transmission housing. Careful not to lift the engine until those are out, otherwise you will crack the housing.
Then, very important, lower the transmission first, only then rise the engine. I overlooked this step first!

Here are some pictures. Had to order a larger engine stand since the one for our Ford Model A would not do the job! :-D

I'll keep you guys updated on the teardown process.


Lynn, thanks a lot for your advice. I will definitely try to add this oil-hole. And I also need to get this book too, sounds very interesting.
Amazon does not have this one used. Is there another source for old books that you know?

It looks like you're well on your way!  Have fun!

Sorry, I don't know where to find the Big Inch Cadillac book today.  Keep your eyeballs in Amazon and eBay and one may turn up after a while.  But you can get by without it, especially if you're rebuilding stock.

One comment from my experience, I would not automatically bore the cylinders out and buy new pistons.  Measure the taper of the cylinders first to see how bad they are, or are not.  I took one of these down with 140,000 miles on it and found the worst cylinder had a taper of .007".  The rest of them were between .002" and .004".  A thank you to the high nickel content of these blocks.  I wasn't boring the cylinders out for that.  I had them honed for new rings and kept my original high compression pistons and saved a pile of money.

If you have any other questions about the rebuild process, just ask.  I've been through a couple of these engines before.

Geez, our cars always have that sad look when the motor is sitting on the crane, the suspension sitting up and of course,  our wallet about to receive the flogging of its life.

Good luck, as said above..... you're on your way... have fun.

Hi guys,
Thanks for your advice. I made quite some progress in the past few weeks.
The engine rests now on its new engine stand. The small one for the Ford Model A engine would not do it! :-D
I had to make my own screws to mount the engine to the stand. Since I am in Europe there is little access to inch-screws. The largest screw they had was too short. So I bought a M12 threaded bar, and cut it to length. And then used the lathe and removed the thread and cut a new 3/8 UNC thread on. The thread goes about 1 inch deep into the casting, so the engine should rest very well.

Here are some pictures of the journey. We had the engine with the stand strapped to a trailer and drove it home just a few miles away from the garage that my car now sits in.

I also started to remove the front suspension. As I expected, the shocks were of the newer gas-charged type. This explains the harsh ride that I experienced. Large bumps were nice an smooth but small cracks would be directly transmitted to the chassis.
I will buy some good hydraulic shocks from eaton detroid springs. They are crazily expensive but are of good quality and are also double adjustable (which I probably wont need, but...)

Now I am in the process of ordering parts. Shocks, all bushings (tie strud, control arm, balljoints,...). I will buy those parts from rareparts.com. Any other suggestions?

I will also replace my 74++ HEI ignition because it has the large cap. I want to run an A/C compressor and the double grooved power steering pulley again. So I am going to buy a original distributor converted to HEI from David Ray (http://www.davessmallbodyheis.com). I guess he is quite recommendable?


--> I am in need for a used original rebuildable 68-69-70 472 distributor (points). Part Number: 1111939
Please let me know if you have one.


Best regards,
Nicolas

nicolas:
you will not be disappointed with that distributor. mine has been installed over ten years with nothing serviced or replaced. my truck has the 500 ci engine in it. when i turn the key it starts, period. not one failure to fire. if you are out of the usa, i would order a backup module to keep in the glove box for any emergency that may arise. i would bet that you cannot buy them at your local parts store.
ciao,
mario caimotto

Nicolas,

A few years back I bought front suspension parts for my '68 from OPGI and everything fit and worked properly.

https://www.opgi.com/cadillac

Wes

Thanks Mario, I am still looking for a decent affordable distributor. I hope this turns out well.

I bought all ball joints from rareparts.com and everything else from Rockauto choosing the brand Moog.
The lower ball joints are from Federal Mogul (that is Moog) and the upper ball joints are from Frap, since Moog/Federal Mogul does not make the upper ball joint anymore.

--------------

Engine disassembly started, no bolt stuck just yet. Engine looks nice and clean, there is debris of the connecting rod bearing everywhere, but otherwise no sludge.

Now, I am "stuck" with two stuck heads. I tried lifting the head off with the engine hoist, but the gasket sticks so good that I could lift the entire engine with engine stand!
I have spayed some WD40 around the seam, but I will create a "puller". Mounted to the rocker arm bolts and using the top of the loose head bolt to push up against.

I have just quickly tried using a long pry bar but I fear of breaking a piece off.

Quote from: DeVille68 on September 18, 2017, 03:15:21 AM
Now, I am "stuck" with two stuck heads. I tried lifting the head off with the engine hoist, but the gasket sticks so good that I could lift the entire engine with engine stand!
I have spayed some WD40 around the seam, but I will create a "puller". Mounted to the rocker arm bolts and using the top of the loose head bolt to push up against.   I have just quickly tried using a long pry bar but I fear of breaking a piece off.

Boy, they shouldn't be that bad.

I use a screw driver and drive it between the surface of the block and head, and simply drive them apart.

Drive from the top down.   This way you are "wedging" the head off.

Bruce. >:D

Hello Nicolas,

Before you use your puller, double check that you have removed all the head bolts.  I understand that corrosion can "glue" parts together, but I have never heard of a cylinder head stuck to a block such that you could pick up the block and stand by the head given the condition of the engine I see in the photos.

Christopher Winter

Hi y'all

The heads are off now!  :)
Thanks Bruce for suggesting the use of a screw driver. I could drive it in from the top on the front. Then with a second screwdriver I had to just drive it in to the middle and the head popped off.
See picture 22 and 23 below.

I found the reason for the clunking sound when I would change gear from D to R - the upper right engine mount screw was a bit too loose! :-|
I have ordered new engine mounts, because the rubber has some cracks in it.

I also found why the engine has less power than I would have expected - well someone installed the 500cid 71 to 73 "Soapdish" pistons  giving about 8.5:1 instead of the 68/69 472 "Squashed Peanut" pistons giving about 10.25:1 compression ratio. See picture 24 below.

I am going to replace all the pistons with the genuine 68 version.

The pistons look otherwise not too bad. The wrist pin of piston 8 and 7 had a pit more friction than the other ones. Connecting rod bearing 8 failed, so maybe the rod got a little hot. I don't know. Or maybe this was from the beginning like that.

I also removed the water pump, which looks good. No need for replacement. See picture 30.

It was strange that I could just remove the crank pulley and balancer with my bare hands - no puller required?!  :o
Picture 32.   Wrong pulley and balancer? I will buy a new balancer - anybody heard from the company http://www.damperdoctor.com/ (http://www.damperdoctor.com/)
Recommendable? They list a damper for my engine.


Disassembly will continue!  :)

Good on ya..... look forward to when its running again.

My parallel project "rebuilding the suspension" is coming along as well. I have removed the front upper and lower A-Arms. I was not able to separate the balljoints, so I had to remove the complete wheel assembly.
I removed the shock and moved a jack stand under the lower A-Arm. Removed the bolt of the lower A-Arm and let the jack down to release the spring pressure. I then supported the drum with an jack stand and removed the two bolts of the upper A-Arm.

Luckily, no bolt was stuck.
However, the lower balljoint did not want to separate, so now I cut it off. Have to figure out a way to remove the stuck bolt from the steering knuckle.

Hello Nicolas,

Fortunately, I have never had a taper joint that could not be separated using two hammers to simultaneously strike the eye of the knuckle in which the taper joint was fitted.  The coil spring pressure aids in getting the joint to separate.  Since your knuckle and spring are separated, you might want to get a socket that is large enough to be placed over the cut-off end of the ball joint taper such that it will contact the eye of the knuckle.  Get a large (150 millimeter or larger) C-clamp and put one end on the end of the socket, and the other end on the castle nut (which should be almost fully threaded on the ball joint), and tighten the C-clamp securely.  Using two hammers of 1 kilo or greater weight, simultaneously strike the eye of the knuckle on opposite sides (one hammer on each side of the eye). or stabilize the eye of the knuckle on an anvil or rail and use one hammer against the eye on the side opposite the anvil or rail.  When the joint "pops", the cut-off end of the taper will fall into the recess of the socket.  I have never failed to remove a tapered joint using this method.

The physics is such that the opposing hammer blows temporarily distort the perfectly round cross section of the taper on the inside of the eye, allowing the pressure on the ball joint from the spring or C-clamp to free the ball joint.  Since the knuckle and the ball joint are made of steel, which is one of the most elastic materials known, no damage is done to either part.  Because the steels are different, the reaction each has to the hammer blows is just enough to free the joint.

Respectfully submitted,
Christopher Winter

Thanks Christopher for your advice.
As any puller would slip of from the upper ball joint eye, I needed another solution and finally found a M26 threaded bar that I cut to length. I shaped to lower end such that the bar would make the most contact on top of the ball joint stud and nut. Then I used a thick scrap metal and a large M26 nut to put pressure on the stud.
Then I just had to strike the eye with an 1kg hammer and the ball joint stud would pop out as predicted by Christopher.
(see picture below).

Next task was to press out the lower A-arm bearing. Well, my little press did not have enough travel, so my beginner welding skills needed to come into play. I extended my press with a few square profile bars. Now I can even press out the upper A-arm bushings.
But time has run out, so those things will be done in a few weeks.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Congratulations on your ingenious way of removing the ball joint.

Bruce. >:D

Hi guys,

Reporting a little progress again. Engine is now fully disassembled. Had to create my own crank puller. There was a lot of discussion lately, for example in this http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=146525.msg374620#msg374620 (http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=146525.msg374620#msg374620) or this http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=143224 (http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=143224) thread.

Well, I did not want to spend the money and actually had forgotten to buy a puller before hand. So when I had time to pull the crank hub I had to create my own puller. Which is really simple actually. I used just a flat scrap metal piece about 3/16 thick. Then I transferred the holes from the balancer onto the piece of metal, since the holes are not spaced equally. Then I drilled and tapped a hole in the middle for a M10 screw.

I reused the crank pulley screws and inserted the fine thread screw into the crank thread. The M10 screw of the puller pushed onto the head of the bolt within the crank. A wooden stick between crank and block prevented it from turning.

Very simple, took me about half an hour to create and did not cost me anything really.

Here is my camshaft. There is a white paint marking and two numbers on the flange: 656 and 814750
In the casting there is a number 68 and another one that I cannot read.

Can anyone identify this cam? Original?


The timing gear has been replaced. There are two numbers on the gears S404 and S405, so I am guessing those were bought at enginetech.com
I will put the cam and crank back into the engine and measure my cam and also measure the slack of the chain. I think the gears are ok, but the chain seemed to have too much slack. How much slack is acceptable?

Here is the crank from the bottom. You can clearly see the damage on rod journal nr. 8
The crank number is 1486424, so this the correct crank for 472 for 68-69.

Next, I will measure the cylinders, pistons, crank, cam, etc...

Disassembly of the front suspension continued. All the bushings and balljoints are pressed out. Ready to sandblast and paint. Need to wait for my new parts to arrive.
I created my own tools made from scrap metal parts. Worked perfectly, you don't need to spend a lot of money on tools. Just use your scrap pieces and make your own tools. The shop manual has detailed descriptions on how to press out the balljoints and the A-arm shaft bushings. There is a drawing with some measurements given. I made my own piece according to these descriptions.

Here are a few pictures. 

Someone replaced two balljoints before. I you look closely you see that all four balljoints are different.

The last two pictures show the passenger side A-arm with the balljoint. You can see that the balljoint is oriented such that the stop of the ball is towards the front of the car. Not sure why or what this does.
There was a discussion lately http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=147058.0 (http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=147058.0) on the side specifics of the A-Arms.

Are you planning to install new coil springs when you put it back together?

I was thinking about that and asked probably the most rebuttable shop in the us that produced new springs for classic car, but I did not get a clear answer.
They have no damage, are not rusted so I guess my originals are still fine.
So I just clean them and paint them black again.

Check with Scott Minesinger. I recall on one of his posts, he said he replaced his. I'm not sure if the difference in ride quality is significant, but it would seem like it should be better with new springs. When I had my front end rebuilt I did not replace the springs. I kind of wish I did, since it was already taken apart anyway. But even with the original springs back in, and all other parts replaced, the ride quality is great, and it tracks straight as an arrow.

The dash rosewood came out exceptional!

Quote from: DeVille68 on May 22, 2016, 04:49:31 PM
I finally finished my wood veneer restoration.

Before and after: my freshly restored original Brazilian rosewood veneer! 68 was the last year Cadillac used real wood. The insert that OPGI sells is wrong, wrong type of wood. I found the correct wood, if enough people are interested I might reproduce some.

The wood itself is glued to a thin metal sheet. This assembly is then glued to the instrument panel. I just used a professional contact force glue.

It turned out very good. What a difference this wood make. I was driving around for three years now without the wood (just the shiny back panel)

I picked up a 1966 Fleetwood last week and this thread has thoroughly inspired me! I look forward to seeing your progress!

Quote from: clarkent5477 on November 25, 2017, 01:23:35 PM
The dash rosewood came out exceptional!

Thank you very much!
If you need measurements or help, let me know.

Clark, keep on reading because I will post soon details about the engine rebuild and progress of the suspension rebuild!

Best regards,
Nicolas

Again some progress on rebuild the engine.
I accurately measured the combustion chamber of my original heads. Those have the number 1486250 and should have a chamber of 76cc.
Below you can see the my method: I used a plexiglas, where I drilled a small hole somewhere in the plate but in such a way that I could position the hole near the edge of the chamber. (picture 1)
You can see that I used some silicon grease on the circumference to make sure the plexiglas is water tight. I then used some magnets to secure it on the head. (picture 2)  Then you just fill up a pipette and ad up the cc's you put in the chamber.

--> I measured exactly 76cc

I also measured my old 8.5:1 compression pistons, those with the large dish. The dish is about 0.380'' deep.  Those turned out to be roughly 45cc

--> Does anyone has a cc number of the "high" compression 10.5:1 pistons?

(I learned in the mean time that those were actually closer to 9.8:1, and also the ones you can buy from Egge are 9.8:1)

Next up was degreeing my cam. Since nobody commented on the pictures of the cam that I posted a few weeks ago I figured that I need to measure the cam, else I would not know what my baseline was.
So, below you see some pictures on how I did it. I printed out a large degree wheel drawing from the internet and glued this onto a plexiglas. Then I drilled a tight hole exactly in the middle. The screw for the crankshaft secures the wheel tightly.

A wire bent around a screw in the water pump hole provides a pointer.
I mounted one dial gauge on top of the deck to find TDC accurately. The second one was mounted with a magnetic base in such a way the the indicator was straight in line with the lifter. (I inserted two lifters for intake and exhaust on nr. 1 piston)

Then you find TDC, rotate the degree wheel and arrange the pointer such that they point to TDC. From there you can just start rotating the crank and watch the dial gauge as the lift increases. I took measurements along the full lift curve. On the downward slope I had to push the lifter with a screw driver just slightly, because there was too much friction. The lifter would not want to follow the lobe. But it turned out fairly accurate.

Here is what I measured:
Picture 4: You can see my measurements that I took at different lifts.
Picture 5: This is the data visualized. On the vertical axis is lobe lift in inches and horizontally is crank degree.


When you look at the maximum lift you can see that there has been some wear on the lobes, there is about 0.002'' to 0.004'' of wear.

Also what is interesting, is that I cannot relate my data to the claim you often hear that Cadillac retarded the cam about -21 degrees.
I think the mistake people do is that they use the factory published numbers and start calculate from there. Well those simple calculations are not accurate enough if the lobe is not symmetric. Which apparently, it is not.

The picture and table clearly shows that the closing profile of the exhaust is very long.
So, when I use degrees measured at 0.006'' lobe lift I get similar reasonable cam data as todays cams use.
I measured that LSA is 116 and Timing is 4 advanced.
(same timing as Lunati, MTS and CompCams use)
The LSA however is quite wide.


I hope this post will help you and maybe you also degree your cam so we can compare and find common specification of this original cam.

Best regards,
Nicolas

NICK

How do you adjust the cam timing? look like you just verified the cam specs. 

Hello Nicolas,

Very well done!  I can appreciate your efforts, but I am jealous - you have two dial indicators, whereas I have only one  :)

I am confused about one thing.  In your post you say "The picture and table clearly shows that the closing profile of the intake is very long."  Did you mean to say the closing profile of the exhaust is very long?  From the graph it looks like the exhaust closing overlaps the intake opening.

I would not think this is too unusual as valve overlap can be used to help cool the exhaust valves (with the inrush of much cooler intake fuel/air), and can alter the exhaust gas profile for emissions control purposes.  Is it correct that your engine is not equipped with an EGR valve?

Your post also mentioned that you measured some wear on the cam lobes.  What did the bottom of the lifters look like?  Were they all slightly convex?  Will you be using new lifters and or cam (sorry if I missed this in a previous post)?  If you replace the cam, do you plan to do the "degreeing" task again?  Keep up the good work.

Christopher Winter

Quote from: Caddyholic on December 04, 2017, 05:11:49 PM
NICK

How do you adjust the cam timing? look like you just verified the cam specs.

Hi Jim,
well the LSA can not be changed. The installed center line (or cam timing) can be changed using a gear with multiple slots for the keyway or using an offset keyway. Most of the gears with multiple slots allow for + und - 4 degrees.

The purpose of my measurements was indeed to just verify the cam specs and to measure the cam specifications at today's standards, that is 0.006'' and 0.050'' of lobe lift.

Quote from: savemy67 on December 04, 2017, 08:52:38 PM
Very well done!  I can appreciate your efforts, but I am jealous - you have two dial indicators, whereas I have only one  :)

I am even more jealous because those two indicators actually belong to my father! :-D

Quote from: savemy67 on December 04, 2017, 08:52:38 PM
I am confused about one thing.  In your post you say "The picture and table clearly shows that the closing profile of the intake is very long."  Did you mean to say the closing profile of the exhaust is very long?  From the graph it looks like the exhaust closing overlaps the intake opening.

correct, that was a mistake. It is now corrected above.

Exactly, that is precisely the reason why there is such a long closing ramp. But I am no cam specialist, so maybe someone here will know.


I don't have a EGR valve. There was just an air pump used in 68, which was also removed on my engine long time ago.

The lifters look very good. Almost brand new. Must have been replaced some years ago.

I am not yet sure if I should replace the cam or not. If I compare my measurements to the specifications of the MTS #5 the difference is not too great. So I don't know how much torque I will gain by using a different cam.
Seems that lunati has a cam with a separate lobe for intake and exhaust (just like the original), where as MTS#5 is the same for both lobes. (just like comp cams too).

But I will definitely degree any new cam I might use!

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hi Devill68,

Let me know what you decide to do with the front springs.  I'm thinking of replacing mine, but need to do some measuring on a rack first to confirm my assumptions.  Based on other posts, I think there is thought that needs to go into determining where and what to buy.

Thx
Charles

Hi Charles,

I am no expert on springs, but I can not think of many ways how one could damage a spring.
So if the car does not sag in any way and the spring shows no physical damage I would keep the original springs.

I keep my original springs, although I don't have all the weight under the hood that this spring rate was designed for. I am missing the A/C system components. The air pump has also been removed. The A/C equipped cars had a slightly stiffer front spring.

I still have to install my pure hydraulic shocks. They do not add any stiffness to the spring. So the handling should be softer.

Some of the engine parts are here now. I ordered piston rings for a Chrysler 400, because those are 4.342 Hastings Nr. 2M676

Instead of the ones for a 472, with 4.340 Hasting Nr. 2M695.
I am installing 40'' pistons.

The style is absolutely identically. I wanted the slightly larger diameter 0.002'' because this way I can grind the gap to my specifications. 
Funny that a Chrysler 400 will fit.

Regarding Pulley:
There was a discussion on the board lately about pulley setup. I have a A/C car with a large body HEI. I have converted a standard ignition to HEI, such that I can run the double belt pulley on crank, power steering and A/C compressor.
I still needed a solution for the missing air pump. I wanted a single belt connecting from the crank to the water pump and to the generator.

I found, that if you use a 70 crank, the water pump groove is farther out such that it aligns with the outer 68 water pump pulley groove. This is the groove for the generator.
--> Hence with just swapping the 68 crank pulley with a 70 crank pulley I can remove the air pump.

Attached is a comparison of the pulley setup. The 70 crank pulley matches the generator groove of the 68 water pump pulley.
The bolt pattern of the crank pulleys is identical.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pulley outside diameter:
68 Crank Pulley:
A/C Groove:       D = 19,2 cm
Air Pump & Water Groove:  D = 16 cm

70 Crank Pulley:
A/C Groove:       D = 19,2 cm
Generator Groove: D = 18,7 cm

68 Water Pump Pulley:
Generator Groove:  D = 15,5 cm
Air Pump & Water Groove: D = 13 cm


Original specifications:
68 Original Specifications:
Generator Pulley Ratio w/A.C:    2.86:1
Air Pump:                                1.2:1
Water Pump and Fan:               1.1:1


My calculation:
68 Crank to 68 Water Pump:   16 / 13 = 1,2:1
70 Crank to 68 Water Pump:   18,7 / 15,5 = 1,2:1

68 Water Pump to Generator: 2.86: 1
-> calculated generator pully diameter: 15,5 / 2.86 = 5,4 cm Diameter

68 Water Pump to Generator: 15,5 / 5,4 = 2,87:1

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

So all the drive ratios remain the same even though I swapped the crank pulley.

Engine parts have arrived. Soon the actual rebuild will start. Here I compare the new 68 squashed peanut vs. the 71-73 large dish version that was installed in my engine. See the four pictures attached. The new pistons are manufactured from Egge.

The 71-73 large dish has a dish volume of 45 cc
The 68 squashed peanut has a dish volume of 27cc

I measured those volumes with a water pipette.

Next, I will remove the connecting rod and weight all the pistons to equalize the weight and then assemble the piston and connecting rod and check the weight again.

Nicolas, you have done some AMAZING work.

I had a similar problem last spring and you can look at some of it here:

http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=145138.0

My engine is back in and running nicely, but I have some other issues to deal with. These things are Never finished.

Hi Mike

Thanks for your kind words! I try to document the most important steps, so people with similar problems or work have some reference.

Yes, I do know your threads - I follow them carefully! :-)

Best regards,
Nicolas

Lot of stuff has been done in the last few weeks.

I smoothed the casting flashed inside and outside of the engine. On the outside meanly to help the paint to stick to the sharp edges. Inside, mainly for looks but maybe it will also be a bit more gentle to the oil that is flowing by.
(first picture shows the sharp edges)
(second picture show the smoothness of the oil return section)

I also welded nuts on the back of the water pump / front cover, as has been recommend here on the forum.
Third picture shows the four 1/4''-20 nuts on the back and all painted POR 15. I used longer screws to secure the exact position of the nuts.
Front side will be painted Cadillac blue - stay tuned for that!

Since I want to do as much work by myself as possible I also made me a special tool to press out the wrist pin.
I used some scrap metal and welded those together to form a solid stand for the piston to rest on. I used a water level bubble to get the stand level. It needed some grinding in the end.

Then I could just set the piston on to the stand and press the wrist pin out. I heated up the eye of the connecting rod, being careful not to heat the piston (it got warm anyway). So this really helped pressing out the pins. The connecting rod does not need to be extremely hot a little "warm" is sufficient.

For the connecting rod screws I also made a special tool out of old tubing that I cut on an angle such that the head of the bolt slides through but the tool still able to support the forces.

My new short absorbers also arrived. Those are specially made by www.shocks2springs.com (http://www.shocks2springs.com). They take normal gas charged shocks and "remove" the high pressure gas. In the end you have a "pure" hydraulic shock just as what was used when my car was new.

Why do you want pure hydraulic shocks?
-> Because these only dampen the motion and do not add any stiffness.
-> If you use gas charged shocks you have some significant amount of psi pressure inside the shock, to keep the oil pre-compressed. This helps improve the performance of the shock because it can start dampening the motion right away and does not first need to compress the oil and air inside the chamber.
-> So, gas charged shocks add some stiffness, and this additional stiffness can be too much. Today's car take this into consideration and hence the stiffness of the springs is a bit lower to accommodate the stiffness of the damper.

How to check if you have pure hydraulic shocks?
-> If you can pull or push the piston to an arbitrary position and it will remain there, you have a pure hydraulic shock.
-> Because a gas charged shock will always try to equalize itself, so the piston will move in the direction where the gas inside can expand.

Check out the picture below. I pushed one shock fully compressed and pulled to other to fully extended, both remain in their respective position. From the outside they look just like any gas charged shock.

Those shocks are the "normal" duty version. This company also offers a "heavy" duty version.
I have to see how those perform and maybe I will upgrade to the "heavy" duty version, which has just a larger area and thus can exert a higher dampening force.
Those shocks came with all the required mounting hardware, which is nice.

Started assembly on the suspension components. First of is the upper A arm with the bushing and shaft. I used some scrap metal to make me the proper stands and press tools. No need to have expensive tools.

I first aligned all the pieces as described in the shop manual. Then I put those into the press and carefully pressed the bushing in. The flanges make full contact with the arm and the inside metal sleeve also reaches the shoulder of the shaft. So seems to be perfect fit.
Then I pained the visible surfaces of the bushing with some POR to match the rest of the A arm and to prevent it from rusting.

Part number of those bushing is: MOOG K5187

Installed the bushing of the lower A-Arm. Again, some scrap metal helped tremendously! :-)
One side of the two holes is larger, that is the bushing slips through it until it just touches the other side. Be sure that the bushing is properly aligned.
Then it is just a matter of pressing those in. Originally they had a tool that would set the correct depth. I used the rust marks on the original ones to guide me, turned out that they stick out just a bit less than 1/2'' on either side.

The bushings I used have the part number: MOOG K5155

There was a thread here: http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=147450 (http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=147450) where someone noticed that the bushing had the wrong diameter.
I did not notice any difference at all. I can not tell if the old bushing I pressed out where original or not, however the new ones where identical to the old ones.

They measure:
length overall: 3.56''
diameter outside: 1.370''

Quote from: DeVille68 on March 18, 2018, 09:02:12 AM
shocksandsprings.com. They take normal gas charged shocks and "remove" the high pressure gas. In the end you have a "pure" hydraulic shock just as what was used when my car was new. .

Nicolas, I have tried to visist the vendor's website but the link provided by you does not work.

Thanks for this great thread!

Hi Nils,
sorry the website is www.shocks2springs.com (http://www.shocks2springs.com)

Thanks for your kind words.
Nicolas

I mentioned before, that I got a 70 Crank Pulley, which works fine on a 68. Today I checked that the belts do indeed line up. Check out the pictures. The Generator, Water pump and Crank are on one belt and Power Steering and Crank are on a second.

I do not have the correct Power Steering Pump and it has the wrong pulley. I also don't run A/C any soon.
So this setup works nicely for me.
Just had to buy the 70 Crank Pulley, everything else is identical to 68.

I also started painting some pieces with the Bill Hirsch Cadillac Blue Paint! And boy is this a fantastic color! We do not have such good spray paint in Europe! So glad I got those cans!
Color is very nice. Can't wait to paint to full engine soon.

I need some help regarding colors:
1) Is the distributor shaft also blue?
2) Is the power steering pump bracket blue?
3) The power steering pump body is blue but the pulley is semigloss black.  Correct?
4) The fuel pump is blue but is the oil pump also blue?

Best regards,
Nicolas

Has anyone noticed that the freeze plug kits that you can buy everywhere are all missing the two plugs for the oil gallery holes?

So, I bought two freeze plug kits and a 3/8'' NPT tap.

I then used my dremel tool to get the holes closer to the tap size (I did not have a proper drill bit....  ::) ) Work out very good, thread installed and plugs fit nicely.

If you got the water pump pulley from the same engine as you got that crank pulley it would be only a single sheave and you wouldn't have the extra unneeded sheave on there.  It just looks a little nicer.  As an alternative, you could use a spot weld cutter and remove the rear sheave from the pulley you have.

From my two cars I showed you earlier which are all original and have never had any painting or detailing under the hoods:

1 - the distributor shaft is bare aluminum
2 - the power steering pump brackets are black
3 - the power steering pump body is black and its pulley is black
4 - the fuel pump is bare aluminum and the oil pump is blue

Nice to have threaded plugs in the oil galley holes.  You will never have to worry about those letting go.

Did you drill the additional oil drain back hole in the back of the oil galley?

Hi, thanks for the tip regarding the water pump pulley!

Thanks about the color scheme, what about the vacuum advance on the distributor?


Yes, I also drilled a return hole and I smoothed some of the casting flashes. I did, however, not massage the manifold and intake runner. I was planing on "porting" the heads, but it seemed to be too much trouble for too little performance gain.

Maybe better off installing a dual exhaust than grinding for hours....

The vacuum advance can on my distributor is bare metal.  I've seen it painted blue on some other cars but I think that was done by spray can "artists". 

Have you ever ported a set of heads on an engine?  There is more performance there than you might think.  I'm a big believer in streamlining the airflow through an engine.  I ported the heads on my convertible engine, as well as the intake plenum.  I even ported and polished the carburetor.  There is quite a howl when the secondaries of the carburetor open.  More than there ever was stock.  Now I just need to install a dual exhaust.  I always thought I would get the use out of the stock exhaust system and wait until it rotted off before getting a dual exhaust, but I've been waiting way too many years for that to happen.  I need to just do it.  I've owned that car for 27 years now and I've never changed the exhaust, and the guy from whom I bought the car said it was old then.  Dual exhaust and a ported induction system would complement each other well.  Just get out the grinder.

Shoot, I would port the head on my lawn mower if I ever had a reason to remove it.

Well, I am sure there is some high rpm horsepower to gain! I am not necessary looking for more high rpm but more torque on low rpm. I don't think the air flow is sufficiently high such that it makes a large impact.
Compared to the time spent I think I better install a dual exhaust on mine.

Anyways, my rebuild continues.
This week I used a lot of wire wheels and brushes to clean all the surface rust from my engine bay. Man, that was a lot of extremely dirty work. Those rust particles go everywhere! I was looking like coal miner! Two full days I spend removing the rust, another few hours to clean everything and prepare for paint. Then I used POR15 semi gloss black. Matches the original black color quite nicely.

Check out the pictures below.

I was now finally able to drop the engine off at the machine shop. He will resurface the block and head to achieve a 10:1 compression ratio. Bore and hone for new +.040'' pistons. Install all new bearings and balance the full rotating assembly.

Everything else I will do myself including fitting the piston rings.

Check it out below, the engine just fits inside our station wagon! :-D
Only when you have a comparison like this, it make you realize how massive this engine truly is! :-)

Quote from: DeVille68 on April 08, 2018, 02:32:15 PM
Only when you have a comparison like this, it make you realize how massive this engine truly is! :-)   

Or, how small the modern day Station Wagons are. ;)

Bruce. >:D

Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on April 08, 2018, 08:20:35 PM
Or, how small the modern day Station Wagons are. ;)

Bruce, I wanted to say exactly the same! By the way, many years ago, I had to drive a latest generation Caprice Station Wagon from a customer. If the width of the cargo area was very generous, the height was disappointing.

Down here, before 1976, we were using the GM Station Wagons (Chevrolet) as Hearses.   No need to extend the wheel bases, as they were sufficiently long enough.

I had an ex Hearse, a 1959 Ford Ranch Wagon as a daily driver, and I could carry a ton of bricks in the rear compartment.

Bruce. >:D

Yeah, that's probably true! :-) The engine may even fit into my trunk as well!  ;D

Anyways, the work continues. Had the spindles and backing plate sand blasted and painted. Installed new Moog Ball joints (K5073) into the lower A-Arm. They fit nicely, my tools were made, yet again, out of scrap metal. Worked beautifully, the ball joints fit nicely. I added a tack weld just for insurance.
The brake backing plate is marked with "Delco Moraine 5462270"

While sand blasting the spindles I also discovered some original markings. I found three colors: red, green and orange. Check out the picture below. I have marked the locations. Probably some checks regarding the proper torque of the bolts, I suppose. Or some coding for the assembly line.

Lots of stuff done this weekend already. I have copied my post from another thread here for completeness.

-------------------------------------

And only now, I really replaced all ball joints. So I ended up buying the Moog Ball joints.
Moog K5073 Front lower
Moog K5205 Front left upper
Moog K5200 Front right upper

( I got mine from rareparts, but rockauto has em too)

Quality from looking at them is very good. They are tight, no damage, good boots. Everything is there. Dimensions seem to be accurate because I had no problem at all pressing those new ball joints into my original A-arms.

Check out the pictures below. I have put the description of the pictures into the names of them.
I will update this thread as soon as my Caddy is on the road again.


One question thought, that I hope you guys can answer, because I am in the middle of installation.
If you look at picture number (6) you see a little plastic piece around the stud of the ball joint. It came this way in the packaging.

What is this piece used for?
Somekind of protection while shipping the part or does it fullfill a function installed too?

I noticed that the upper portion of the boot would be somewhat loose without this plastic piece, so I put it in. You can see the end result in picture (7) and (8 ).

However, this plastic piece also limits the amount of travel the balljoint can do. And it may also soften or removed metal to metal contact, that is the stud cannot directly contact the housing of the ball joint because the plastic piece sits between.

--> Question: Should I leave this plastic piece the way it is now or should I remove it?

Thanks for your help.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Did you buy the parts through David King? He is a reseller of Rare parts and sometimes active on this forum. Ask him!

No, I have bought them directly from Rareparts. I will call Moog tomorrow, but maybe someone has some experience with ball joints.

Today, the plan was actually to install the full front suspension, but since I was not sure about the strange plastic piece on the ball joint stud, I decided to do other stuff instead.

So, first I had to drill the new screws for attaching the upper A-arm to the frame. I wanted to use splints to be on the safe side. So I had to drill my own holes. I first torqued the screws to spec and then measured how far the splints would need to go. Then I removed the bolts again and drilled some holes. Check it out below. Came out very nice. Now I don't have to worry again that those would become loose.

I also installed two covers for the rear upper A-Arm bushing. According to the master parts catalog and shop there would be only one on the right side. To me however, it makes sense to have this cover or shield against the heat of the exhaust manifold on both sides, so I did just that. Other years do have those two shields.

I also disassembled the brake pistons, to my surprise they were full of dirt. So I cleaned those but some rust pitting remained as can be seen in the picture below. Then just reassemble the braking system, not too difficult. The shop manual has a good step by step description.

Since I was stuck with the ball joint phenomena I decided to replace the rear shock absorbers. Those were gas charged, and I replaced them with some pure hydraulic ones from http://www.shocks2springs.com/.
Check it out below, they look exactly the same. Mounting was relatively easy, until I got the rusty old stuff out.

Keep reading for updates soon.
The engine is at the mechanics shops and he will start working on it soon.

Best regards,
Nicolas.

P.s: I will be in San Marcos for the Grand Nations this years. Would be fun to meet some readers! Drop me a PM if you are attending too! :-)

Quite some progress today! Managed to install all the suspension components.
First I tried to use spring compressors, but this did not work, because I could either not inset the spring in its pocket because the compressors was in the way, or I could not remove the spring compressor because I had to compress the spring some more with the jack.
Then I tried to use solely the jack, but this did not work, because I would just lift the car from its stands. There was too little weight in the chassis due to the missing engine. See picture (36)

Suddenly, the brilliant idea came to mind to tie the jack to the chassis itself, such that the forces would equalize at the chassis than at the garage floor. See picture (37). You can see that I tied the jack with two clamping sets around the frame rails. The jack was basically off the ground suspended by the clamping sets. Make sure the force rating of the sets you use is sufficient.

Picture (39) shows the spindle and brake assembly installed.
Picture (40) shows the left side (driver side)

If you ever try to install the suspension without the engine, I hope I gave you an inspiration here!

Best regards
Nicolas

Some progress again. Different stuff done, in no particular order, but stuff that needed to be done anyways. So here we go:

1) Repaired the transmission to engine cover. It had a small crack. I welded it shut. And then painted it with Cadillac blue.

2) Painted the oil pan, valve cover, intake manifold and some smaller pieces with Cadillac blue (Bill Hirsch)
Results are very nice. I will glue the valve cover gasket to the cover itself, so when I remove the valve cover the gasket should stick to the cover itself.

3) Painted the exhaust manifolds with POR-15 manifold Grey. Turned out nice as well. Those need to be on the engine and experience a full heat cycle to fully cure. POR-15 told me to run the engine for 15-20 min in idle, then shut it off and let it cool. Repeat again.

4) Removed the passenger side rear axle shaft. I had no proper tools, so I made my own tool. By now you probably guessed it: out of scrap metal!  8)
Removing the axle only takes about 10 to 15 minutes. But I had to create my own puller, so it took about 2 hours! Had to weld some scrap metal to be able to attach the slide hammer. I used a new electrode, the welds are not nice until I found the proper current setting. Not pretty but functional!  ;D
I have to remove the axle because it has a runout damage from the tire blowout that happened about two years ago.
I will bring the axle to a shop that hopefully can fix that.

5) Flushed the radiator and massaged all the fins. Reinstalled in the car. Attached the transmission oil cooler too.

6) Repaired and installed the fusible links in the wiring harness coming from the starter. I ended up using wire connectors to attach the fusible links (with shrink ramp for protection). I will then put some ready-made fusible links in trunk in case on of those really burns through, I have some spares with me along the trip.


Best regards,
Nicolas

Are the wheel bearings the original ones? It seems that the outer diameter has some rust. Depending how the shaft will be corrected, a new bearing could/must be replaced. In case, I have 2 on stock.

Hello Nicolas,

Bill Hirsch has been out of stock of the Cadillac Blue paint for some time.  Now I know why :D

You may find that you will be removing the valve covers a few times after the engine is back in the car.  If you are going to glue the gaskets to the covers, be sure you check the covers for "flatness/straightness", and check that the holes have not been deformed.

From your photos, I could not tell what is the width of the straps used to strap the frame to the jack.  The width looks to be about 1 inch (25mm).  Here in the States, a strap of that width has a rating of about 500 to 700 pounds (227 to 318 kilograms).  You used two straps, each with more than one turn around the jack and frame, so you probably came close to or exceeded the maximum force of the jack (two-ton (1818kg) jack?).  Since we like following your progress, and want to see more, please consider a safer method of installing the springs.  Especially if the jack starts to "float".

If the wheel bearings show any signs of leaking grease, or if the axle tube/brake backing plate show any signs of differential lube leakage, or if you think the bearings are 50 years old, I would probably take advantage of Roger's offer - especially since he lives relatively close to you.

You are doing a great job - enthusiasm, ingenuity, thoroughness, and persistence will pay dividends in the final result.  Keep up the good work.

Respectfully submitted,
Christopher Winter

Quote from: DeVille68 on April 28, 2018, 02:58:41 PM
Suddenly, the brilliant idea came to mind to tie the jack to the chassis itself,

Great idea!!  I'll be doing this later this fall hopefully :)

Christopher, thank you very much!
I am currently attending the GN in San Marcos. Are you around?

Roger, thanks for your offer. I still don't know what I am going to do with it. I had the axle on a balancing machine but the guy said there was no wobble or other alignment issues.
So now I think I will just but it back together and see if my vibration problems still exist.
If all goes well, I will rebuild the rear end in the winter anyways. Drive shaft seal is leaking. Propeller shafts (axle shafts) are ok. No rear end oil leaking out.

Thanks for tip regarding the valve covers. I will do that.

Yes, I used three straps. The two on the front were rated 500kg and the on in the rear 800kg. So that is plenty of weight. Well, the jack had to "float" otherwise the reaction force would still go through the ground. I needed to have the reaction force going through the straps into the frame.

Hello Nicolas,

I am not at this year's GN in San Marcos, but there is a small probability that I might be in Germany in September.  Hope you are having a good time in Texas.

Christopher Winter

Quote from: DeVille68 on June 09, 2018, 01:44:23 PM
Roger, thanks for your offer. I still don't know what I am going to do with it. I had the axle on a balancing machine but the guy said there was no wobble or other alignment issues.
So now I think I will just but it back together and see if my vibration problems still exist.
If all goes well, I will rebuild the rear end in the winter anyways. Drive shaft seal is leaking. Propeller shafts (axle shafts) are ok. No rear end oil leaking out.

You are welcome!
Recently, a friend from France asked for help: his '65 or '66 had a noise/vibration coming from the rear axle. He was pretty sure that the diff was bad; he asked how easy spare parts are available...I said to him that he must check the wheel bearing first. His reply was that the bearings were replaced some years ago and could not be bad. He went to a (probably) truck shop to let check the rear axle. The result was that the rear axle was perfect, but the wheel bearings bad, maybe installed with the seal on the wrong side, as there was some confusion how they are correctly installed.

ok, thank Roger. So I think I'll but the axle back in with a new o-ring and then continue with the engine rebuild. After that I will see if my vibration problem still exist and can tackle this issue in the winter time again. I want to drive the car now, the car has been already a year off the road.
Best regards,
Nicolas

Hi Nicolas

I suppose that a word is missing in your response...Anyway, I'm now away for about 10 days; I'm back home early July. I understand that you would like to drive that convertible: the right season is now,not in November!

I need some help regarding the oil pressure switch on the back of the block. I want to put a proper analog gauge in parallel while starting the engine the first time. (I can use a simple volt meter for reading the pressure signal) Unfortunately, my engine is at the mechanics place and I can not take any measurements.

Any recommendations on which gauge to use?
What is the thread? 1/4'' NPT or 1/8'' NPT?
Where do you buy this T-fitting, that I have in mind? (please give me a source in the states).

Best regards
Nicolas

Hello Nicholas,

The attached photos show my "T" at the back of the block on my 429.  I removed the oil pressure sending unit, installed a 2 inch nipple, installed a brass T (three female openings), re-installed the oil pressure sending unit, and installed an old Stewart Warner mechanical oil pressure gauge.  The only problem is I cannot recall if the fittings are 1/8" NPT or 1/4.  I can check tomorrow (Monday) and PM you.

I have about 20 pounds of brass fittings, so if I have the right size pieces, I can send them to you via post.  Is it more convenient for you to receive a personal post or to purchase online from the states?

Christopher Winter

Hi Christopher

ok, that would be perfect. This is exactly what I have in mind. I am thinking of an adapter with a male and two female ports.
I does not matter, I can send you money via paypal. I have an address in the states.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hello Nicolas,

Just sent you a PM.

Christopher

ok, found it. In the table where the torque ratings are listed it says that the oil pressure switch is 1/4'' pipe.

So now I need a 1/4'' T-adapter with 1/4'' male and two female at 90° angle. Then I can hook up the original switch in line with the hole in the block and 90° to it I can screw in the adapter from 1/4'' to 1/8'' of a pressure gauge, such as this one here https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/41440/10002/-1#tab_kits (https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/41440/10002/-1#tab_kits)

Hey Christopher, do you have a T in 1/4''?

(ohw, posted at the same time as you! :-D sorry)

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hello guys,
Yes I am back! What took me so long? Well, had to wait on my engine builder to finally start working on my block!  :-\
Its all done now, and I can start with the assembly!

So here it goes:
Picture 1: shows the crank fresh from balancing. The guy had to add weight, but this is difficult so he took a bit material of the rod journal on No. 8. All in all very little weight had to be removed. The harmonic balancer and flex plate were also balanced individually and then the full assembly. He had to adjust the hole in the flex place, because the hole was not round and this error would give +- 10gramms.

We had to go with the 30 (instead of 20) over bearings on the connecting rods, because the damage on no. 8 was too deep. 

Picture 2: shows the block with the new camshaft "installed". Rotates very nicely. There is a current thread of someone having issues with the cam moving back and forth. I did just quickly check that the cam rides on the surface on the front of the block.

Picture 3: Shows all the bits and pieces that need to be installed!

Picture 4 and 5: Shows some preparation that I did a while back. Christopher was very kind to supply me with the correct fittings for the oil pressure gauge. As you can see, everything fits together nicely.

Will post a lot of progress photos during the next days!

Best regards,
Nicolas

Welcome back!

Nice work!

Thanks! Oh, well. I wanted to post earlier but did not find the time to do so. Here is a recap of the work done two weeks ago.

Picture 1: New main bearings and arp main studs
Picture 2: Rope seal for the rear main.
Picture 3 & 4: I used a block and hammer to pound the rope into the groove. I used a clap in order to achieve a nice cut of the rope end.
Picture 5: However the rope would not want to seat in the groove of the block.
Picture 6: So I had to order a different seal for the rear. Luckily there is a Neopren Seal available.

The crank is installed. Bearing clearance checked. Crank end play checked. All pistons installed without the rings to check bearing clearance and side clearance. All within specs. It took less than 2 Nm to turn the crank.

Then I installed to old 68 camshaft and measured again the lift with respect to crank degree. Then I installed the new camshaft and measured the same again.
Now I can really compare the lobes and lift of the two camshafts.
Here are a few pictures:

Picture 6: Degree wheel and dial gauge.
Picture 7: Comparing the camshafts.  On the left is the new cam on the right the old 68. Notice how the base circle is closer to the diameter of the camshaft rod. So it seems that the higher lift is gained by making the base circle smaller.
Picture 8: Lobe lift comparison. The curve with the higher lift and more area is the new camshaft. This camshaft has about the specs of a 72 camshaft. At least this is what I could tell from the shop manual information that I have available.

A full day was needed to gap all the rings and install the pistons.

I have installed oversize pistons. They are 40'' over.
So I would have needed to buy rings for a bore of: 4.340''. This would have been 2M695-40 from Hastings, which are the correct rings with a moly coating.

However, I found in that same catalog that there is a ring available for 4.342'' for a Chrysler 400. The profile and coatings are identical. Part number: 2M676

So this larger ring will give me about 0.002'' to work with or about 0.006'' in gap.

My goal was to gap the top ring to 0.016'' and the second ring to 0.014''.
Recommendations from Hastings and Egge was 0.014'' min and 0.026'' max. (for both rings).

When I installed the slightly larger rings into my bore I found that they were not consistent at all. The smallest gap was 0.005'' and the largest 0.016''. So I had to file all rings to achieve 0.016''. Would I have bought the "correct" rings the gap would have been probably somewhere between 0.014'' and 0.022''.

The oil rings ended up around 0.032'' to 0.036''. Factory recommendation is between 0.015'' to 0.050''. So with my ring gap I should have good oil control. Would I have bought the "correct" rings the oil ring gap would have been somewhere around 0.040''.

Here are a few pictures:
Picture 1: Ring filer from summit and a ring ready to grind.
Picture 2: Installing the ring in the bore to measuring the gap. I used an old piston with a ring in the second slot to push the ring down such that it would be flat in the bore.
Picture 3: I used a new ring compressor. However, I needed help, because the compressor would slightly jump up every time I pounded on the piston, which would result in the lower oil ring to escape and preventing the piston to go down.
So a helper pushed on the compressor and then a nice pound would move the piston down nicely.

If you have any questions or recommendations let me know!

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hello Nicolas,

I could not tell from the photographs whether or not the top of the cylinder bore was slightly chamfered.  Chamfering the edge assists the insertion of the piston.  Your ring compressor looks to be of the correct style.  When I have inserted pistons, I slathered the inside of the compressor with oil, and then I used one steady push to insert the piston while keeping the compressor in contact with the block deck.  Keep up the god work.

Respectfully submitted,

Christopher Winter

Quote from: savemy67 on December 09, 2018, 11:16:29 AM
I could not tell from the photographs whether or not the top of the cylinder bore was slightly chamfered. 

Hi Christopher,

Thanks!  :)
Yes, you are right. Looking at some other photos there is indeed a slight taper. I have not noticed it before, but this would explain my "difficulty" of installing the pistons with the rings.
It was difficult trying to do it alone, with a helper a nice pound would be all that was needed.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Today, I installed my three different valve springs, retainers and locks.
I have the original ones, one set from MTS and one set from CadCompany.

The first picture you see all the springs installed. From the bottom of the picture: original springs with original valves, original springs with new valves, MTS springs with new valves and in the back CadCompany springs with new valves.

What you notice from looking at it from above is that the new retainer (probably big block chevy?!) are a bit wider and cover the full spring. However, this does not pose a problem with the rocker arm, since it will clear those. The retainer is also a bit shorter in the middle, so more clearance to the valve stem seal. (if you use a positive type, or to the valve stem in the block for normal seal).

Next photo shows the difference in length of the intake to exhaust valve. The shorter valve in the middle is the intake valve. On the left is the MTS stronger spring and on the right is the original spring and retainer.
However, the difference is about 0.027 inches. This is fare more than the difference in the actual length of the valves with is only about 0.017'' (exhaust is slightly longer than intake). So I wonder if the valve seat is a bit more sunken into the head on the exhaust side?

Now, I don't like this, because this means that the rocker arm geometry or the contact point of the rocker arm on the valve stem is not exactly the same for the intake and exhaust valve. Possibly being offset and not in the middle of the valve.

I tried to measure this but was not able to do this alone, the paint on the stem would wash out because I would wiggle the rocker arms too much while trying to install and remove them. So I will have to wait for this analysis until I have a helper again.

Anyways, I need to wait for two head bolts, because the kit I got from a very well known Cadillac Performance Parts supplier did not include the two short bolts for the head?!?! ::) :o

Next week or so I hope to be able the measure the spring rate and force those three different springs will give for open and closed valves. So, keep looking for this post.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hi Nic. Where did you get the u channel finish ? for the leading edge of the top?

Hi,
Do you mean the paint? The channel is probably still original, but badly rusted because the weatherstrip was completely dry and in large parts long gone.
So I cleaned everything and put POR15 on top of the rusted metal. After that I glued new Weatherstrips from Steele on. No water issues anymore. So far it holds up good.

Best regards,
Nicolas

So here is a followup post on valve spring pressure.
I have three choices:
1) original springs and retainers
2) new springs and retainers with shims from MTS
3) new spring and retainers from CadCompany - Stage 1 kit

So I in my last post I showed you how I installed all those different choices into the head. I measured the installed height for each of those and they vary slightly, here is what I measured (mean value) :
Original specification is: 1.946''
Measured with the original springs: 1.980''
Measured with spring and retainer MTS: 1.943''
Measured with spring and retainer CadCompany: 1.942''

So for the later calculation I will use the original specification of 1.946'' or closed and my valve lift 1.464'' open (0.482'' lift)
I have no idea why I would measure a larger installed height using the original hardware?!

Anyways, I went to a local mechanics school and was able to borrow their spring pressure measurement tool. Please see the attached picture.

I measured all 16 springs from MTS and Stage 1 for pressure on seat and open, then I took the mean value and the results are:

MTS closed = 55 lb             MTS open = 182 lb              Spring rate: 267 lb/inch    Free length: 2.150''
Stage 1 closed = 28 lb        Stage 1 open = 157 lb         Spring rate: 270 lb/inch    Free length: 2.047''

Original specification according to shop manual: closed: 60lb - 65lb and open: 155lb - 165lb


Observations:
1) The MTS springs can be used without shims
2) The stage 1 springs need a shim to achieve proper closed pressure.
3) At least three or four shims of 0.030'' thickness would be needed to give 52lb - 61lb closed
3) The original springs have lost some of their stiffness they lost about -17% compared to specification.

MTS told me over the phone that their springs should give 90lb closed and 300lb open.
With is way way too high and not good for the original rocker arms. As you can see, someone figured out the correct spring pressure at MTS but that information was obviously lost.

Since I have a MTS #5 camshaft I will use the MTS springs and retainers.
I am not sure if I should use one shim or not.
I wanted to mention that I removed the internal spring dampeners. Below 4500 rpms they are not needed and only add friction.

If you have any more insights I would highly appreciate your input.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Happy New Year Nicolas. Why did you choose the #5 cam, and does it require any other engine modifications?

Hi Wes,
Thank, to you too.
Other than new lifters there is nothing more required.
However, I also changed the timing chain, intake and exhaust valves, and the springs with retrainers and keepers. I also installed positive valve stem seals which required machining the valve stems. You could probably also use the original springs, but as you have been able to read above the original springs lost some tension over the years. So I am going with the springs that MTS supplied but use those without or with only one shim to stay in the region of forces that also the factory recommended. I don't turn the engine more than 4500 rpm anyways. More around 2000-2500 and there the stock springs / stock pressure is sufficient. On top it gives you a quieter valvetrain and less friction compared to the "chevy" specs. (90lb seat, 330 lb open)

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hi nick i have a 66 deville conv. i'm restoring. On the leading edge of the top over the windshield did you have a decorative u channel?

Nic the 66 deville has vacume switch.

Quote from: spolij on January 10, 2019, 06:16:12 PM
Hi nick i have a 66 deville conv. i'm restoring. On the leading edge of the top over the windshield did you have a decorative u channel?

I can not follow what you mean. There is a chrome piece on top of the windshield frame. And then there is the front convertible top bow. This one has the front weatherstrip glued onto it (with plastic clips).
I have attached a factory drawing. Hope it help! Otherwise I will try to find some pictures of my front bow, they should be somewhere...

Best regards,
Nicolas

Update on the engine rebuild.
As I posted above I have measured all my springs and the corresponding valve pressure.
Since no one has a real clue about spring pressure and no one was able to give me a clear explanation of how much pressure is needed, I figured, that I can choose whatever I want, because I have also no idea. So, it apparently does not matter.

I have bought a MTS #5 and this camshaft is about the same as a 72 cam - from what I can tell from my measurements and from the specification of the 72 shop manual / information book.

The 72 has a lift of about 0.490'' and specifies 60lb-65lb on the seat and 163lb-173lb open.
As you can see above I have the MTS springs, and with one shim I end up with the following values:
61lb on the seat @1.946'' and 191lb open @1.465''.
This is exactly factory spec on the seat and about 14% more open.

So I think this will be fine considering to flimsy rocker arm setup.

The pictures below show how I first plugged the air passage in the head with a 1/16'' NPT set screw. The trapped air within the head will not pop out the caps at either end, because through the ideal gas equation the increased pressure of the trapped air should only create a force of about 1.2 kg.

Then I checked the valve seat area and then installed the shims, springs, retainers and keepers.

The heads are now done and would be ready to install.

However, I have to wait yet again about two weeks, because usps decided to return my package at the border - reason unknown. I suspect that they did not want to send me the assembly lube I ordered?!
Well, another unnecessary delay in the build...

Best regards,
Nicolas

If you don't get the parcel from USPS, I have assembly lube from GM.

Nic replace the spring. Get one from the hardware store, just a little stiffer than the originale.
I have a 66 convert. Did you have a decorative u chanell on the tip of the front cover?

Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on January 13, 2019, 04:30:03 PM
If you don't get the parcel from USPS, I have assembly lube from GM.

Nice, I will get back to you eventually. Problem is, that also the two missing head bolts are supposed to be in this package!  >:(

Quote from: spolij on January 13, 2019, 08:27:38 PM
Nic replace the spring. Get one from the hardware store, just a little stiffer than the originale.
I have a 66 convert. Did you have a decorative u chanell on the tip of the front cover?

I still don't get what you are talking about, here is a picture attached that I have found.
The only decorative thing on the top is the chrome strip on top of the windshield frame. There is no channel in or on the front bow.

In the picture you see the black strip, this is the portion where the weatherstrip is supposed to go - you can see the holes for the clips.
The rest is just top material and metal.

I'll find mine and post a pic.

Here is what i have. Don't know what it's for. A little over 4' long

Nick  So i think your saying that the fabric wraps around the front bow and gets stapled to it underneath in the tack strip then the rubber weatherstrip goes over that.

yes, something like that. Maybe your front bow has a bit different dimensions as my 68.
However, your decorative piece looks to me like a run channel of a window. Does it has some fuzzy stuff inside?
It is strange that it is only 4'' long. There is no place for a 4'' piece on this long front bow.

Nic The piece is 4 feet. Inside is a wire coiled up on both sides. I'll try to get a better picture.

Is that not similar to the material used to seal the roof and back window (called welt trim if I'm right) and finishing the roof installation?

Roger Could be, since i can't find that piece. With the wire inside i don't know how you would staple it.
But i'll check it out. Thanks
Just checked it out. It's the right length. It would staple to the same bow that the window staples to. Then you hit it with a rubber mallet. I think though i'll put a small bead of siicone under the strip.

Roger how's the weather in Switzerland ? snowy and cold here in Ohio.
Thank you all.

Quote from: spolij on January 18, 2019, 10:50:29 AM

Roger how's the weather in Switzerland ? snowy and cold here in Ohio.

Glad you found its location!
The weather is now rather cold, under freezing point at night, not much "warmer" during the day. Snow is forecasted for Wednesday. I cannot wait Springtime!

Ah yes spring lol
Can't find a replacement on the net. I'll call a convertible place today.
John

Roger I found that piece. It's called a (wire on). $39.

This post is about attention to details - a few months ago I was reading through my notes for the engine rebuild and noticed that the shop manual mentioned a fast warm-up feature. I never head of that before!

So it turns out that there is a special passage below the thermostat that is open as long as the thermostat is cold, when the thermostat is warm this passage is blocked off. This passage is a recirculation feature which recirculates some part of the hot engine block water again through the block instead of through the radiator. Hence the water is cooled less and the engine warms up faster.
You can see attached four pictures, the first two show a zoomed in view of the neck below the thermostat. You can see that the correct and the "wrong" thermostat look about the same, so both recirculate the water when cold.

However, when the thermostat is warm only the correct thermostat blocks the recirculation passage, as you can see in the picture. The "wrong" one still allows for some recirculation.

--> So the next time you experience overheating issues it might be clever to check out the thermostat and make sure that it is the correct Cadillac type thermostat.

I have bough two from jegs, the part numbers are:
Gates for 180°F:
   # jegs: 465-33058
   # gates: 33058

Gates for 195°F.
   # jegs: 465-33059
   # gates: 33059

Attached is a picture of the correct gates thermostat and of a original one.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Next up: My engine rebuilder had the opinion that the American V8 usually have too little oil capacity and the oil tends to be hot.
So I thought, well I might add a sensor, just to see what the temperature actually is.

I ordered those parts:
Jegs Transmission Pan Drain Plug 1/2''-20 Male x 1/8'' NPT Female
# 555-60175

Contains:
Adapter for the oil pan hole and 1/8'' sensor. Plus a nut for the back-side and a plug to be able to remove the sensor

Jegs Coolant Temperature Sender 1/8'' NPT
# 555-41366

Below you can see in the pictures that this is pretty straightforward. I quickly added a wire to the sensor too, I will put this at an angle as soon as I have installed the engine.
Might not be driving with this sensor all the time, but it is nice to know what the temperatures are.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Nice to know what goes on inside the engine, but I wouldn't be too worried about stuff like that as Cadillac spent millions of Dollars getting it right before releasing the engines to the public, with exception of the HT4100, and correct oil temperature is one reason why these engines last so long.

Plus, another reason why GM doesn't fit Oil Pressure gauges to the dash boards, and just idiot lights.

Remember when cars had Oil Pressure, Ampere Meters and Water Temperature gauges in the Dash array?   Now, just the fuel tank Level is all that is needed.

Bruce. >:D

PS.   My Wifes' BMW doesn't have an Engine Dipstick.   Just an electronic gauge to check the oil level.   Spent hours looking for the Dipstick, and as is the case, "if all else fails, read the manual".   The Diesel version has a Dipstick, so why not the petrol? 

Hi Bruce

Yes, that is probably correct. But I am an engineer, so finding out what temperature the oil has is just something that interests me. Probably going to remove the sensor after some time. I did not buy the gauge, I will just use my multimeter. I don't want to have those gauges in the interior anyways.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Nic don't forget the heat riser. It has a lot to do with the engine warm up.

Hello Nicolas,

I would think that you should get some useful data from the oil temp sensor.  If you combine the data you get from the oil temp sensor with data from a coolant sensor, you should be able to pinpoint when your engine is fully warmed-up.

Many of us do have a small concern with starting our cars, and running them for a short time in cold weather, as this may promote condensation of water vapor in the crankcase.  You may get data that allows you to determine the time needed to minimize potential condensation issues.

I am not an engineer, but I too find this sort of information useful to help get the best out of our engines.  Now, where did I put my pocket-protector and slide rule...

Christopher Winter

Yep, will keep you updated on the engine oil temp project.

First progress on the engine rebuild:
Installed the dowel pins for the heads, those are not shown in the engine exploded drawing, so I ordered to wrong ones. Had to order some from Germany. Finally, they arrived last week. The dowel pins for the heads are 5/16 x 5/8'' (four needed), those for the manifold are 1/4'' x 1/2'' (two needed) and those for the front cover are 5/16'' x 5/8'' (two needed).
My plan was to drill and tap the dowel pins for the heads, but I got some hardened ones, now I don't have a thread in them. Well I don't want to open up the engine any time soon!

Now heads are installed and torqued, connecting rods have assembly lube on the bearings and torqued to spec.
Today I painted the engine, took me about 4-5 hours to mask everything and clean twice with acetone and once with brake cleaner.
Painted with rattle can from Bill Hirsch - Cadillac Blue. Very nice color, easy to spray.

Pan, manifold, front cover, valve cover were already painted about 10 months ago!

Tomorrow I hope to start assemble more things.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Nic is blue the oem color for the whole engine?

It seems to me that the plugs in front of each head are not expanded enough. I see just a slight indentation, (see the arrows on the picture); is that deep enough?

Hello Nicolas,

This is just a suggestion.  If you apply masking tape to the entire machined surface and extend the tape over the edge of the machined surface, you can use a soft-faced hammer (bronze, lead, plastic) to tap the edge of the machined surface all the way around the part.  The edge of the casting is sharp enough to cut the tape, which you can then peel off, leaving the machined surface perfectly masked.

Roger's question makes me ask, did the plugs come with an engine kit for your 68's 472, or did you order the plugs separately?

John, the dark blue was the original engine color from 1949 through about 1976.

Christopher Winter

Quote from: spolij on February 16, 2019, 05:02:23 PM
Nic is blue the oem color for the whole engine?

Yes, depends. Some parts are semi gloss black, some are unpainted.
Here is a list of parts that I assembled, information from shop manual, Cadillac Authenticity Manual.

Cadillac Blue:
- Engine Block
- intake manifold (including vacuum nippels)
- heads
- Valve Cover
- oil pan
- oil pump  ( not sure, could be bare aluminium)
- Breather cap and tube
- Front cover
- Water pump and fittings
- fuel pump
- fuel filter
- Alternator hold down
- engine hooks
- igition coil bracket
- thermostat housing
- dip stick and tube
- timing pointer
- Distributor Vacuum advance canister
- Distributor hold down
- Kick down switch braket
- cover flywheel between engine and transmission

- mani fasteners too, the engine was originally painted after assembly



semi gloss black:
- crank pulley (actually blue, but I'll paint it black)
- water pump pulley
- power steering pump
- power steering pulley and braket



bare aluminium:
- Distributor shaft
- oil pump


Manifold gray:
- exhaust manifold

Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on February 17, 2019, 02:54:24 AM
It seems to me that the plugs in front of each head are not expanded enough. I see just a slight indentation, (see the arrows on the picture); is that deep enough?

Hm, I don't know! These plugs are used to plug the casting holes. They are usually not included in the freeze plug kit. My engine rebuilder removed the "original" ones and put those in. I have not checked if they are correct. However, they are a different style than those that were in there. "Original" where some that looked like freeze plugs. These new ones are basically flat with just a little bow, but on the outside. They seemed pretty tight? I don't know where those plugs go to but probably water or oil.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Quote from: savemy67 on February 17, 2019, 07:36:54 PM
This is just a suggestion.  If you apply masking tape to the entire machined surface and extend the tape over the edge of the machined surface, you can use a soft-faced hammer (bronze, lead, plastic) to tap the edge of the machined surface all the way around the part.  The edge of the casting is sharp enough to cut the tape, which you can then peel off, leaving the machined surface perfectly masked.

Yes, thanks. For the most part I used your suggested method but I used a razor knife instead.
One some surfaces I did put the tape on it and then put the gasket on top and traced it with the razor knife.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Today, all day was spent with the oil pan, pickup and dip stick.
First, I did cut the bracket of the pickup in half because the ARP studs have a thicker washer and nut so the pickup screen would not sit right. I then measured the proper clearance to the bottom of the oil pan and used some small wood "blocks" with paint on it and then installed the oil pan. Without the gasket those blocks would mark the pan slightly, so I know now that I have about 6mm (1/4'') clearance from the screen to the bottom of the pan. First five pictures show this.

Then I turned my attention to making a oil pan baffle, I used a cardboard and made a template. Then I cut it to fit, and made another one from this, again fitting it to the pan. Then I used this final template and transferred the shape to a 1.5mm thick steel plate that I had laying around. I think it was an old pc housing.

I used a plasma cutter to cut out the "funny" shape. Then I used a grinder to smooth the edges and work the metal some more. All in all it took me about 4 hours to finalize the baffle. I bent four taps on each side such that I can weld those to the pan.
The purpose of the baffle is to prevent to oil from sloshing around while braking, accelerating and turning sharp corners. There are now trap doors, this is just a simple baffle. I just want it to keep the oil a bit longer around the pickup when I drive up and down the mountains.

I will do the welding next week.  Until then, let me know if you have any further suggestions to the baffle.

Best regards
Nicolas

I also installed the lifters and pushrods, cleaned them inside and out. Soaked the lifters in engine oil and then did put some assembly lube around the contact surfaces. The pushrods still looked good, no real wear on the tips.

Then I cleaned to rocker arms and also put assembly lube on the contact surfaces. Installed those in the order they where removed, also the pushrods ended up in the exact same spot.

I then torqued the bolts down and made a mark on the pushrod, then I released the tension of the bolt and made another mark. The distance between the marks is the lifter preload - I measured about 0.040'' - which is right in the middle of the specs.

Then I did not use the rubber gasket for the china wall but used permatex all around. Then layed the valley pan on top of it and coated the upper side with a some permatex. Then I lifted the intake onto it not bolting it down but just resting there. I waited about an hour and half before I torqued the intake down. This allows the permatex to cure a little, such that when you torque it down it can compress. Otherwise, it you immediately torque it down it will just squeeze the material but it will not compress properly.

Still made a huge mess, cleaned up a bit, but still have traces of permatex all around! :-D

Nicolas, Thanks for posting the updates. I'm learning a lot about my own engine from your blog. Is your valley pan corrosion resistant? I read on CadillacMike68's post about how the bottom of his pan rusted and caused engine damage.

Quote from: DeVille68 on February 18, 2019, 02:15:35 PM
My engine rebuilder removed the "original" ones and put those in. I have not checked if they are correct. However, they are a different style than those that were in there. "Original" where some that looked like freeze plugs. These new ones are basically flat with just a little bow, but on the outside. They seemed pretty tight? I don't know where those plugs go to but probably water or oil.

Those plugs are closing the water chamber from the heads. If they are not tight, they may pop out. Ask your rebuilder about that.

Quote from: Bentley on February 18, 2019, 04:45:21 PM
Nicolas, Thanks for posting the updates. I'm learning a lot about my own engine from your blog. Is your valley pan corrosion resistant? I read on CadillacMike68's post about how the bottom of his pan rusted and caused engine damage.

Well depends, it is just a stamped steel pan, seems to have some sort of coating. The reason why it rusted out in CadillacMike's case was probably high humidity and a bad seal between the pan and the manifold. I noticed this too on mine and had to pull the manifold off again and increased the permatex bead on top of the valley pan. Otherwise humidity will get between the pan and the manifold, where it is basically trapped. No vacuum issues arise but you may have corrosion issues.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on February 19, 2019, 02:43:03 AM

Those plugs are closing the water chamber from the heads. If they are not tight, they may pop out. Ask your rebuilder about that.

I hope to see my engine rebuilder this Friday - I will ask him about those plugs.

Hello everybody,

Pan baffle is welded in. Added to welds to the rear of the baffle to give a tighter fit of the baffle, this will keep more oil in the sump. Was quite difficult to weld this with my mic/tic machine, main problem was getting the gun and filler rod into the pan and then sticking my head with helmet into the pan as well. But got it done, took quite a while but looks good now. Had to repaint the pan of course, all the paint would melt away from the welded areas....

Opened up the oil pump and cleaned to pressure limit valve. My spring is a bit too short about 2mm too short, that means that the valve will open a bit earlier to release the pressure. I don't think this will be a problem, if it is a problem I can open up the plug which is accessible from the outside and insert a shim to increase the force of the spring.

Cleaned and painted the fuel pump. Make sure that you prime the pump with gasoline before trying to pump it. The membrane in mine got very stiff from sitting on the shelf for more than a year, so I drizzled a bit of gasoline into the pump and after just a few minutes the plunger would move with much less force.

Test fitted the oil pump, fuel pump and distributor with the front cover off.
Had to install the pulley again because I made a mistake last time, the zero mark is of course the first notch with the zero behind it. 5 BTC has only a notch and 10BTC has a 10 labeled!
I am using a 70 crank pulley to remove the smog pump, had to add another notch about 2 degrees offset. My original 68 pulley was right on. Not sure if this is just manufacturing tolerances of if the 70 really has a 2 degree of difference.

Checked the crank hub, it had a small groove at the seal surface. So I measured the distance of the new seal on the front cover and then determined that when I move the new seal 0.5 to 0.7mm further out the lip would ride on flat surface. So I made a small shim which goes under the new seal on the front cover.
Normally, one would turn the hub down and shrink a new sleeve on - but I am out of time now and want to put things together, no one will notice and I just want a good seal. Hope it works.

Tomorrow, I hope to put everything together.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Continuation of the assembly, had the impression to recheck the rod side clearance, well turned out that the clearance was a bit on the low side. Journal 1 and 4 had about 0.006''. Journal 2 and 3 about 0.008''.
The cap Nr 8 even had scraping traces from the crank journal. The guy that did the balancing probably left a burr on the last journal while removing weight.
I used a piece of glass to give a flat surface and 1000er sandpaper and sanded a few connecting rod bearing caps on the inner side, that is the side without the bevel. After a few forth and back I ended up with 0.009'', 0.009'',0.011'', 0.011'' from front to rear. I am much more comfortable with those numbers, was too tight to me. Original spec is 0.008'' to 0.016''.

Pressed the front cover seal in and installed the front cover. Used the water pump just to hold the cover in place. Still need to check and paint the water pump. I put a liberal amount of assembly lube on to the timing chain, fuel pump arm and distributor drive gear.
Then I installed the seals for the oil pan. Now the engine is basically completely sealed - ready for some oil!

Latest update:
Various parts installed, rebuild and updated original distributor  with HEI. Wired external coil, added engine hooks. Installed carburetor. Re-bent the fuel line, too way too much time, its nicer now, but I guess I have to do it properly with all the accessories installed. Want to have the line ever neater. Installed the exhaust manifolds.

Left to do: water pump, spark plug wires, checking belts, install flex plate and starter. Do some wiring and then mount it on the engine stand to break in the cam.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Another weekend working on the engine.
Painted and lubed the water pump. With lubed I mean that I used a very thin oil that is used for sewing machines. I put a few drops into the "leak" hole and some on each end of the shaft. Because the pump was sitting now over 1.5 years I wanted to prevent the sealed bearings to run on a dry shaft. You could really feel how the pump was easier to spin after lubricating it.
Then installed. Used sealer on the three lower small screws.

Installed the pulley and checked belt alignment again. Generator, Water Pump is perfect. Power steering is a bit off, angle is about 0.4 degree. Allowed is 0.5 degree. So all good. Painted the power steering bracket. Have not yet rebuild the pump, because its the wrong one.

Disassembled the fan, found an original part number. Turns out that this type of fan with its 6 blades was used for a 67 Eldorado with AC. Part Number is: 1482915.

For a 68 with AC there should be a 7 blade fan, part number 401371.
So I am in need of a correct type of fan!  :-\

Painted the fan and brackets anyways because currently I have no choice, will replace the fan with the 7 blade version when I put in the A/C compressor

I borrowed a crimp tool to clean up the spark plug wire mess. Those are 8mm AC Delco wires, but some of them are way too long. I did cut length out from 7cm to 41 cm out of the wires!
Also made a custom coil wire, because my coil is now external just like original, but it is a HEI system, so I am using the HEI wires.

The first pictures show the mess, then I show the original crimps. I carefully bended the taps up again, and slid the wire in and crimped again. The new crimp looks as good as the old one, and is also tight.

The next "blog" entry should hopefully talk about my o2 sensor and some wiring for the engine test stand.


Best regards,
Nicolas

Nice work.  What do you mean by "lube" the water pump?  Mine seems to have sealed bearings (1974).

Quote from: hornetball on March 10, 2019, 05:00:45 PM
Nice work.  What do you mean by "lube" the water pump?  Mine seems to have sealed bearings (1974).

You are right. I rephrased my post above:

QuotePainted and lubed the water pump. With lubed I mean that I used a very thin oil that is used for sewing machines. I put a few drops into the "leak" hole and some on each end of the shaft. Because the pump was sitting now over 1.5 years I wanted to prevent the sealed bearings to run on a dry shaft. You could really feel how the pump was easier to spin after lubricating it.

The shop manual does not have any description on how to restore one of these pumps, they simply say: replace when leaking!
I hope mine survived the long time of sitting dry on the shelf.

Best regards,
Nicolas

So, it has been again a while! Now I have a week vacation and plan on starting the engine on the engine test stand. Unfortunately, my engine builder had and has again no time to get his engine test stand ready for my test phase. So now I have to build my own test stand. He will hopefully show up when I let the engine run for the first time.

But first I had to install the flex plate. Checked again the bolt length. They are close to the block but have about 3mm room. So that should be plenty.

Now let me show you what I have come up with for my engine test stand. I hope to inspire some of you that plan on doing the same thing!

First, I wanted to use the engine stand and just extend it to an engine test stand. I already installed the motor mounts, so I decided to just add two reinforcements to the front legs of the engine stand. (Picture 1 and 6).
The two "vertical" bars sit on the legs with a u-shaped profile. I did not have one in the correct size, so I just welded two angle pieces together. There is a M10 bolt that goes through them to bolt the bars to the legs.

Then I decided to use my radiator and have two support bars coming of those vertical bars to support the radiator. The radiator sits in a u-shape profile. Picture 5, 8 and 12.

The radiator is held in place partially by the hoses but I also added a "finger" to the top vertical bar. The top bar is where the gauge cluster will be mounted. Picture 13

Next post explains the gauge cluster. Last picture here just shows everything installed. Picture 19.

Now to the gauge cluster. I wanted to have all the important gauges to monitor the engine. So I need: tacho, oil pressure, water temp, vacuum, oil temp and o2 (lambda) sensor.

I also want switches for power, ignition and stater.

I bought a temperature sender from jegs but no gauge, because I thought that I just use my ohmmeter to get a reading. But now on the engine stand I don't want to calculate or read a table to find out what temp the oil has. So I measured the characteristic curve of the sensor by measuring the resistance (ohm) while heating it in a water pot and measuring the water temp with an accurate sensor.
Picture 14 shows this, I measured the "original" water temp sensor and the new oil pan oil temperature sensor.

With those measurements I got a NTC curve but this curve is not linear. You either need a display that corrects this nonlinear behavior or create a linearization using resistors in series and parallel. Picture 2. The set of equations is pretty simple it is just a quadratic equation that you can solve by hand. I used an excel to plot the results. The results are how many ohm for the parallel resistance and how much ohm for the series resistance. So I searched and combined the resistors I had to get the final values. I then added those resistors to the wiring and re-tested the sensors with the gauge again using the hot water.

The gauge I am using is a milliampere meter from my grandfather. I had this laying around. So when I put 12V volt on the gauge it will give a current flow that changes with the change in resistance due to temperature increase or decrease. More or less current will flow, this is displayed on the ampere gauge. I choose the scaling and linearization of the resistors to give equal numbers, so for example 60mA equals 60°C. 100mA equals 100°C. The gauge will be "accurate" between 60°C and 100°C.

Last two picture show the final gauge cluster for the engine test stand.

Since I want to hear if something is making a strange sound I want to add an exhaust. I had to remove my current exhaust from the car. I anyway had to fix some issues and add an O2 sensor. So first I had to fix the flange that mounts against the heat riser valve. Because the metal was corroded, I had to weld in a new piece. Then I also drilled a hole and welded in the o2 sensor mounting plug.
Now, I can use my air fuel meter gauge also while driving and really see what the carburetor is doing.

Nicolas, that is a lot of nice engineering work. I've never rebuilt an engine or had one rebuilt by a shop. I always thought they just put the finished engine back in the car, hook up everything, and start it to test it. Would a shop test a rebuilt engine using your same method?

Hi Wes, well my engine rebuilder is currently gearing up to do just that on every future engine he builds. Just a piece of mind. And you have a controlled environment. You can break in the engine without having to install it. Not everyone is familiar with this, so the engine builder can send you a ready to drive engine, otherwise you would need to do this on your own.
Of course if something leaks you can fix it more easily with the engine out of the car.

For my case this is way overkill. But it was interesting to do, I learned again a lot!

Today's engines are "cold" tested. That is there is no combustion. The sensors are checked and all other mechanical functions of the engine. This has the advantage that sensitive microphones can hear mechanical noises that they could not record when you have combustion noises. To my knowledge the engine is then first started when leaving the assembly line.

An other way is to put the engine on a dyno, so there you can do the break in and tune all in one go.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hello everybody that is following. The last post was about getting the engine stand ready.

This post will sum up the disaster that happened since then. The good thing is, the engine test stand performed perfectly. The bad thing is: I wiped out a cam lobe! -> I have to start all over again!  >:( :'(

The first 10-15 minutes of the break-in process went actually quite good, no vibrations just a slight ticking from the rear of the passenger side valve cover. After 15 min I shut the engine down to inspect why the lifter was ticking. I looked at the rockers and checked preload again but no sign of failure. Engine oil was still fresh.
Second start, ticking got louder. After 2 minutes shut her down again. Looked again at the rockers and pushrods. Suspected that some lube may have clogged a lifter, so I used the electric drill again to pump oil trough the engine. Oil was coming out of all pushrods. So I started the engine again and a horrible noise was present and it backfired when I shut her down.


So here is a short summary of what went wrong:
First problem:
I had a new distributor installed, I have never run this unit before. Turned out that I did not get proper spark, although the timing light indicated correct timing and it would always light up. We tried too long and had spun the engine too many times with the starter only. This may have been a contributing factor to the lifter failure, too little oil supply during cranking speed. After trying for maybe an hour we switched to the old distributor and it fired right up. Still need to check the new distributor out on an ignition test stand. We already checked the coil and it is producing 50'000V easily.

Second problem: I used a liberal amount of engine assembly lube on the lifter surfaces. I read that you should but it on the bottom and the side of the lifters. Well, I did just that and I used assembly lube that advertises with "this product will mix with oil" and "Unlike other assembly lubes, xxx yyyy's will not plug filters after initial engine start-up" (!!)
However, this stuff got so sticky that it prevented good rotation of some of the lifters, this I noticed after tearing the engine down and looking at the wear pattern on the bottom of the lifters. Obviously, the lube did not mix fast enough with the oil.
I also coated the camshaft gear, timing chain, connecting rod bearings and the oil pump itself with a good amount of this assembly lube. The idea was to protect the components upon initial start up and also to give lubrication to the parts while I was assembling the engine over an extended period of time (roughly 4 months).

Third problem: My engine builder checked the hardness of the camshaft, but of course not every lobe. The hardness of the cam was good, but maybe one lobe had a problem too. I don't know for sure. I did not measure the lifters. Next time I will measure every lobe, not sure if that makes sense at all but it is good to know.

Fourth Problem: All this might not be too much of a problem, yes I would need new lifters and a camshaft, but the final problem was that the debris and the assembly lube clogged the oil filter, which opened the pressure release valve and flooded the engine with debris (unfiltered from the oil pan). On the third and final start up, this debris caused that all the bearings are garbage now and I noticed some scratches in the crankshaft journals. The problem with the oil filter was probably increased by using a very fine filter (Bosch instead of ACDelco).

So, all in all, it might have been this multiplication of problems that led to the camshaft failure.

Here are a few pictures:
picture showing priming the oil system with a drill.
picture showing vacuum, oil pressure, rpm (between 2000 and 2300rpm) and the air fuel meter reading. I got constant 35-40psi oil pressure.
The engine ran very well, no vibration


At this point the engine has been completely disassembled, cleaned and all new bearings installed. I hand-polished the crank journals. Bearing clearance is a bit wider but still in specification.
Now, I am waiting (since 3 weeks!  :o >:( ) on my new camshaft, ordered from cadillachighperformance and manufactured by lunati.

At least I now have a cool engine test stand. I will keep you updated on my second rebuild  ???!

Best regards,
Nicolas

Wow.  What a bummer.

That's really bad luck.

Hello Nicolas,

Sorry to hear of your troubles.  I appreciate your willingness to share your experience on the forum, as it can be a learning experience for all.

I don't have a 472/500 shop manual so I don't know if the oiling passages in the 472 are the same as in the 429.  If they are, then the set of lifters closest to the front of the car on the driver's side are the last to get oil from the lifter galleries.  Your post mentioned the ticking as coming from the rear passenger side of the engine.  Was the wiped-out cam lobe at this position?  This position would be ahead of the port for the oil pressure sender, so if you were getting good oil pressure at the oil sender port, you were probably getting good oil flow through the oil gallery feeding the lifters for the cylinder at the passenger rear side of the engine.  This would lead me to think you initially had a defective lifter, and I don't think the cranking without spark was a problem.  Did you notice good oil pressure when you were cranking the engine?

Engine assembly lube is a good idea, but more is not better.  Assembly lube has two functions: to provide a lube with additives which provide more protection under high-pressure conditions, and to provide increased viscosity or "stickiness" to keep the lube in place.  I am not sure where you read that you should put assembly lube on the sides of the lifters- motor oil is sufficient on the sides.

While it is possible for a camshaft to have a lobe of insufficient hardness, I would expect this from a lesser quality manufacturer, and even then it is not likely.  Where did you get your camshaft?  How will you test a new cam for hardness without blemishing the lobes?

Was the Bosch filter designed for use with synthetic oil?  Are you using synthetic oil in your engine?  There is a difference in molecule size and shear/traction coefficients between synthetic and conventional oil.

Will you be installing the new components yourself, or will you have an engine builder do it for you?  Fortunately, your trouble did not cost you an arm and a leg, perhaps just a finger.  Considering the time, effort, and money you are putting into your car, this is a setback, but not a huge setback.  Perseverance is a virtue.

Respectfully submitted,

Christopher Winter

What a mess.   That Lifter is totally destroyed judging from the roughness around the circumference.

The Cam Lube should only be used on the cam lobes and the lifter base, and the rest should be engine oil, and straight 30 weight at that.

Oil pressure has nothing to do with lubrication of the lobes and lifter bases as these areas are only lubricated by splash feed.   That is the excess oil that is thrown off the crankshaft as it is spinning around.

This is the only reason that the cam running in procedure has the engine rotating at over 2,000 RPM at initial startup, and for the 30 minutes.   It takes that long for the oil to migrate into the microscopic pores of the lobe and lifter to allow idling and "normal low speed driving.

Cranking the engine via the Starter Motor for long periods is detrimental to the lobes and Lifters, even though the oil pressure is up.

If one has to do the cranking without starting, I would recommend removing the spark plugs, and the rocker arms, thus relieving pressure on the aforementioned parts.

The compromising of the oil filter, and the damage to the bearings will require that this engine needs completely flushing of the oil galleries before putting back together to get rid of the stuff that hurt the bearing shells.

Bruce. >:D

Hi Christopher and Bruce

Thanks for your words. I noticed that I did not post any updates.
Yes, I did open up all oil gallery plugs again and flushed everything out. I had to hand-polish the crank because the debris did scratch the surface. All new bearings are installed, new camshaft is in (again MTS#5 ordered from cadillac high performance along with the (supposedly) lunati lifters).
However, the lifters seemed to be bad again because they corroded badly after I cleaned them in my ultra sonic cleaner and had them in the oil for two hours. They actually corroded while sitting in the oil.
So now I have already ordered new lifters, this time those are COMP Cams 869-16.

The lifters are now in Wisconsin waiting for me to be picked up, I will be attending the GN in Louisville. See you there, maybe I can share a more detailed engine rebuild story at the bar or on the show field.

After I get home I will update this "blog" again and hope to finally assembly the engine. It has been almost two years now....

See you,
Nicolas

As for the questions:
1) It was the lobe directly under the return hole of the oil in the lifter valley. It was the exhaust of cylinder nr. 5
2) I always had oil pressure except when cranking started, during cranking it was ok
3) My engine rebuilder checked a few of the lobes. Now with the new camshaft I did not check the lobes again.
4) The filter should work with both oils. I have a non synthetic 20-W50.
5) Yes, I am already putting it back together again.

Quote from: DeVille68 on June 05, 2019, 01:24:08 PM
......All new bearings are installed, new camshaft is in (again MTS#5 ordered from cadillac high performance along with the (supposedly) lunati lifters).
However, the lifters seemed to be bad again because they corroded badly after I cleaned them in my ultra sonic cleaner and had them in the oil for two hours. They actually corroded while sitting in the oil.   

I cannot understand why the Lifters required cleaning if they were new.

Plus, how could they corrode if they were sitting in oil?   What sort of oil are you using, or better still, what is the fluid in the sonic cleaning machine?

Bruce. >:D

I did check if the lifter would compress easily, so I used a pushrod and pushed down by hand to check movement. Two of the lifters did not move as easily as the others, so I threw them into the sonic cleaner. I used just a normal cleaning media that you dissolve in water 1:10. It is called "Spezialreiniger Ultraschall HD". It says on the box: "Gentle special cleaner for all types of materials"
http://www.dema-vertrieb.ch/index.php/de/Spezialreiniger.Ultraschall.HD.Teilewascher.5L/c.KAT0800/a.61041 (http://www.dema-vertrieb.ch/index.php/de/Spezialreiniger.Ultraschall.HD.Teilewascher.5L/c.KAT0800/a.61041)
Well not really....

I also told this to my engine builder and he said that he opens up every lifter because the oil can become like a resin and hinder the lifter piston to move up and down freely. (probably from sitting too long on the shelf)

So next time I am going to throw them into mineral spirit and open them up.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hello everybody,

News from me again. I returned from the GN with the new lifters from Comp Cams in my luggage.
I did check the movement again with a pushrod and realized that the internal plunger would not move at all. This time I did not throw them into my sonic cleaner but opened them up with a needle nose plier. Check out the first picture. After opening them I cleaned all the parts in Terpentinersatz (Mineral Spirit) and soaked them in engine oil. After this the engine was ready for break-in. I had again primed the engine with a tool to turn the oil pump. It took an awful long time to prime and to check that every pushrod and rocker arm was receiving oil.
After priming the carburetor with gasoline the engine fired right up at the first try. I did use my old distributor this time!
I immediately raised engine speed to 2300-2000 rpm.
Unfortunately the timing was set at 0° degree so the engine would get quite warm. I shut it off after 20 min, reset the timing to about 10° advance and then the total was about 20° advance. It was still getting a bit warm - probably because there was too little air flow through the radiator. After 30 min I reduced the speed to idle speed, which was no problem.
I did not idle for too long and shut it off and changed the oil and filter. When I cut the oil filter I noticed that there were a lot of very fine particles, but no junks like last time. Hope that this is a good sign because it would mean that the lifter and camshaft would have matted to each other. The oil was otherwise still quite clean and I did not hear any funny noises.

One of the exhaust bolts that reached into the head bolts would let some engine water out. I don't understand why the Cadillac engineers would drill into the hole of the head bolts. Anyways, I let the engine cool down during the night and retorqued the head bolts (was not really necessary, only the two shorter bolts were a bit lower in torque) and but permatex on the threads of all of the exhaust bolts that would reach into the head bolts. Hope this seals that water leak.

Best regards,
Nicolas

After break-in in the engine I moved the whole engine with teststand to the location where my Cadillac is stored since two years. We (my father and I) used an engine hoist with an leveling device and a pulley tackle. The leveling device was used to twist the engine left to right and the pulley tackle to lift the front of the engine up. This setup was working real nicely, the position and angle of the engine could be controlled precisely. The engine was in and motor mounts torqued after about 2 hours. Then began the tedious process of attaching and finishing the wiring. I left all wiring loose and too long without terminals. I now had to finish the wiring and make it nice. Crimp all the terminals and attach the wiring. Everything else went quite smooth nothing mayor. I reinstalled all the gauges I had on my teststand into to engine and car. So now I have a panel with all the gauges sitting above the transmission tunnel. I think I will keep this for the first few hundred miles.

The first start however was bit strange. Oil pressure was taking way too long to build up and the lifters would make a lot of noise. So I shut the engine off immediately - it ran for about 10 seconds.

We took the valve covers of and checked if the oil was flowing though the pushrods by using the oil pump priming tool again. We noticed that we would get oil pressure (about 40psi) immediately but no flow through the pushrods. Took about 30 seconds for the first pushrod to squirt oil. So we decided that the reason for this behavior must be the thick oil I was using. I was recommended to use 20W50. Well, this is probably way to thick. I did check again the shop manual and it recommends 10W30 or 10W40 for the temperature range I live in. I asked an oil company of what they recommend and I told them that my engine failed due to a spun rod bearing. I was using 10W40 before, so they recommended 20W50.
I think this is a mistake because all the bearing clearances are new and tight now, so there is no need for this thick oil.

I now ordered 10W30 with >1200ppm zinc in it. Hope to make the oil change next weekend - let's see if my assumption was right.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Had the new lifters some liquid into the body? If yes, you cannot move the internal plunger.
On the 3 cars I restored, I removed the internal plungers, put some oil into the body and reassembled. As the start-up, all lifters did a lot of noise for maybe 5 minutes.

Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on July 15, 2019, 05:25:04 AM
Had the new lifters some liquid into the body? If yes, you cannot move the internal plunger.
On the 3 cars I restored, I removed the internal plungers, put some oil into the body and reassembled. As the start-up, all lifters did a lot of noise for maybe 5 minutes.

Hi Roger,
no there was no debris or oil. Maybe just a film of oil. I suspect that the oil (or grease?!) they use resinifies and prevents the check valve to move at all. After cleaning all of the lifters the mineral spirit still seemed to be clean. I used my external oil pump adapter to fill all the lifters, there was no noise at initial start up / break-in.
Only after I installed the engine, I had to remove the oil filter to install the engine, the lifters would make a lot of noise.
This behavior should not be normal as it would happen every time the engine stands for a few days or after an oil and filter change. Let's see if the different viscosity will help.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hello Nicolas,

If I understand your last post correctly, if you let the car sit for a few days, or if you drain the oil and change the filter, the lifters make noise?  If this is the case, the noise indicates the lifters are leaking and are empty of oil.  What is even more strange is that I think this would be less likely because you are using thicker oil.

I don't think it is normal for the lifters to have leaked oil after only a few days.  In your photo of the disassembled lifter, I see that the lifter has not been completely disassembled.  The check ball, spring, and retainer are still attached to the lifter plunger.  Did you test the operation of the check ball?  (see my post on valve train and lifters here -

http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=133691.100

start at reply 111)

Also, remember I have a 429, your 472 may be different, so refer to the shop manual.

If the problem of leaking/noisy lifters is consistent, then I think your lifters are either assembled incorrectly, or they are the wrong lifters.  From the photo, they look like the correct lifters, so I would at least check them for proper operation of the check ball.

Respectfully submitted,

Christopher Winter

Quote from: savemy67 on July 15, 2019, 01:47:27 PM
If I understand your last post correctly, if you let the car sit for a few days, or if you drain the oil and change the filter, the lifters make noise?  If this is the case, the noise indicates the lifters are leaking and are empty of oil.  What is even more strange is that I think this would be less likely because you are using thicker oil.

Hi Christopher,

Yes, the engine was last run on Monday. Then I had to remove the oil filter to install the engine in the car. This has emptied the oil galleries. This would also happen if I would change the oil and oilfilter for winter storage. The lifters have probably leaked down because I used the starter several times to check all the gauges and wiring. I started the car again on Friday.
Yes, I also have not yet fully understood the role of the oil - but neither do the "experts" of the oil companies I have talked to so far...

Quote from: savemy67 on July 15, 2019, 01:47:27 PM
I don't think it is normal for the lifters to have leaked oil after only a few days.  In your photo of the disassembled lifter, I see that the lifter has not been completely disassembled.  The check ball, spring, and retainer are still attached to the lifter plunger.  Did you test the operation of the check ball?  (see my post on valve train and lifters here -

http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=133691.100

start at reply 111)

Also, remember I have a 429, your 472 may be different, so refer to the shop manual.
If the problem of leaking/noisy lifters is consistent, then I think your lifters are either assembled incorrectly, or they are the wrong lifters.  From the photo, they look like the correct lifters, so I would at least check them for proper operation of the check ball.

Yes, you are right. I did not disassemble the plunger. I left the checkball and spring assembled. But I did check that the checkball was moving freely. I think I assembled the lifters correctly. There is metering disk - it was side specific on the lunati lifters but just a flat disc on the comp cams lifters.
The concept of the rockerarms is almost identical to the 472. However the 472 uses separate screws to mount the pedestals.

I will post an update on Sunday - hope the thinnner viscosity helps.

Best regards,
Nicolas

If you don't already do so, add as much of a quart of oil as you can to the filter before installing it, you will find the oil pump will pick up the prime and quiet the engine and lifters much faster.

I have been following your thread and have even referenced it as I work through issues restoring the door panels, window felts, window adjustment, etc.  Even though I have a 1970 convertible, I have experienced some of the same trials you mentioned.  I really felt bad for you after the problems with the first attempt of your rebuild.  I hope your recent issues get resolved soon!

Hi Kurt,

thanks for your compliment. This is the reason why I write and post updates, it feels good if I can help somebody restore his Cadillac too.

Hi Mr. Newcombe
Yes I did that, although after installing the engine into the car and fitting the oil filter again, I did not fill up the filter again. So this might has added to the oil pressure build up delay.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hello,

Last week I enjoyed a full week vacation in Switzerlands Vineyard Terraces, called Lavaux. It's a world heritage site and consist of small villages with grapes surrounding them. From the lake to the hill top. Absolutely beautiful. We were there because of the Fête des Vignerons (Winegrowers' Festival), which only happens every 20 years or so.

Anyways, the oil had arrived and I immediately went to the garage to continue working on the suspension. I had to tighten all the bolts and put cotter pins into the castle nuts. My father was helping me with measuring camber, caster and toe-in. See attached below my settings. With radials (Diamond Back), the car tracks straight, straight under braking and has just little steering return. I will increase the caster to even more positive caster, maybe +1.5°. Hopefully this gives me a bit more steering return. (factory setting is -1°).

The pure hydraulic shocks are very nice. The driving experience improved quite a lot. Of course also all new bushings are helpful for a smooth ride. I don't have a lot of miles on the car yet, but from driving a bit through country roads I can already say that the shocks are not too floaty and the hard short bumps that we transmitted to the chassis with the old pieces are almost completely dampened out.

I changed the 20W-50 to 10W-30, an oil from Motorex, which is a Swiss made Oil. See picture below and here is the link: https://www.motorex.com/de-ch/classic-line/motorenoel/evotec-sae-10w30/ (https://www.motorex.com/de-ch/classic-line/motorenoel/evotec-sae-10w30/). It has >1200ppm zinc already in it.
I primed the oil system again, the pushrods were squirting oil a bit faster then before. So we decided to start the engine again. There was only a slight ticking from the lifters, so we decided to go on a test drive.

I was driving my car for the first time in 2 years and 1 week!
After a few full throttle pulls up to 3500 rpm we returned and had to clean up the garage. Attached a picture with me driving, you can see the gauges, there is rpm, oil pressure, vacuum (not hooked up yet), oil temperature and air-fuel ratio.

Next week, I will have to make a special washer for the upper ball joint, remove and install the exhaust again (exhaust leak), increase the caster, go test the new distributor and go for a longer test drive.

Thanks for hanging in with me.

Best regards,
Nicolas

That looks very nice.
I bought me triple whitewalls from Coker. They are bias ply an have awesome steering return and stability with factory settings on my 66. Had radials before, with the same settings they definately didn´t run that good. So a very good intention to change the settings.

I had 10W30 in my Caddy, was okay, but I wasn´t happy with the consumption. Changed to 20W50, too much lifter noise after a week or more. So I changed to 15W40. Awesome, doesn´t need any oil between the changes and it´s quite.

What type of washer do you mean? This wedge styled one? Be aware, this one is made from pretty high strengt steel in original. A friend has problems to find a used/new one.

Greetings from Germany,

Richard

That interior looks beautiful  :)

Quote from: Lowrider2905 on July 22, 2019, 06:00:26 AM
That looks very nice.
I bought me triple whitewalls from Coker. They are bias ply an have awesome steering return and stability with factory settings on my 66. Had radials before, with the same settings they definately didn´t run that good. So a very good intention to change the settings.

I had 10W30 in my Caddy, was okay, but I wasn´t happy with the consumption. Changed to 20W50, too much lifter noise after a week or more. So I changed to 15W40. Awesome, doesn´t need any oil between the changes and it´s quite.

What type of washer do you mean? This wedge styled one? Be aware, this one is made from pretty high strengt steel in original. A friend has problems to find a used/new one.

Greetings from Germany,

Richard

Hi Richard,

Thanks for posting! Very interesting. Yes, I will let you guys know how the increased caster will be like.
Interesting that you experienced the same issue with the thick oil, seems that I made the right guess.

Yes, luckily I do have both special wedge style washers. However, the new moog ball joints have the hole for the cotter pin in such a low position that the cotter pin misses the castle nut!  So I have to somehow bring the castle nut higher up to the hole for the cotter pin (more to the end of the stud). Or I have to use another method of securing the nut from turning. I will leave the original wedge washer in place, because it covers the hole in the spindle.

Thanks Mark, for the compliment. I restored the Brazilian rosewood veneer myself, next up will be the recreation of some interior parts and replacing the front leather because someone used a wrong type leather on the front seat area. It is the correct color but the wrong texture.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hello Nicolas,

Wedge washer = camber eccentric?
Splint = Cotter pin?

If the camber eccentric and spindle are original, but the ball joint is new, I would suspect that the ball joint is not correct, or not correctly manufactured, if the hole in the threaded part of the ball joint does not allow the cotter pin to be inserted through the slots in the castle nut.

Or, the castle nut is not the correct height.  Is the castle nut original or did it come with the Moog ball joint?

Or, the camber eccentric is not seating fully in the spindle taper.

I would probably not alter the relationship between the camber eccentric and the spindle assuming it is correctly seated.  You might consider a thick, hardened washer of the correct inside diameter to place over the stud before fastening the castle nut.  Although a washer will probably have too large an outside diameter.  Another possibility is to use a machinery bushing.  These are thick, but with a smaller outside diameter than a washer.  Another possibility is to find a jam nut of the correct diameter and pitch.  A jam nut is a hex nut about half the height of a standard hex nut.  You could install the jam nut first, then the castle nut, and this would move the slots in the castle nut closer to the threaded end of the ball joint stud.

Generally, the taper fit of a ball joint stud in the spindle is self locking - like a Morse taper in a mill.  However, in the Cadillac with a camber eccentric, which needs to be rotated, this may not be the case.

You may want to first check if your ball joint is correct.

Respectfully submitted,

Christopher Winter

I assumed he meant the large washer underneath the camber eccentric.  In combination with the nut on the ball joint, this washer is what keeps the camber eccentric anchored to the spindle.  You can see the washer in the diagram and it has flats on it.  It seems like you could easily add additional washers under the castle nut to space it out correctly, although you should not have to do that with the correct parts.

Nicolas,

Glad you got your car running in time to enjoy some nice top-down driving weather.

Hi Nicolas,

had the same issue. There where approx. 2 mm misssing. Machined 2 shims from good steel to make sure, the pin secured the nut.
Works perfect.

Greetings, Richard

Quote from: savemy67 on July 22, 2019, 04:40:55 PM
Wedge washer = camber eccentric?
Splint = Cotter pin?

Hi Christopher,
I am sorry, yes I meant cotter pin. The wedge washer (its more like a D-shape) is between the castle nut and the spindle. It basically covers the hole where the camber eccentric goes through. The camber eccentric is pushed in from the other side.

Quote from: savemy67 on July 22, 2019, 04:40:55 PM
If the camber eccentric and spindle are original, but the ball joint is new, I would suspect that the ball joint is not correct, or not correctly manufactured, if the hole in the threaded part of the ball joint does not allow the cotter pin to be inserted through the slots in the castle nut.

Or, the castle nut is not the correct height.  Is the castle nut original or did it come with the Moog ball joint?

Or, the camber eccentric is not seating fully in the spindle taper.

The ball joints are replacements from Moog. The lower ones fit just fine. I am guessing that the shaft / threaded part of the stud is just too long for this application. The castle nut that came with the ball joint was even thinner. The camber eccentric fits just fine on the tapered shaft of the ball joint.
I will have to check if the eccentric is correctly seated, but I did follow the factory steps by first tightening the assembly with a normal nut. I even had the engine out and no weight on the A-arms, so it should have seated fine. I will check this next weekend.

Quote from: savemy67 on July 22, 2019, 04:40:55 PM
I would probably not alter the relationship between the camber eccentric and the spindle assuming it is correctly seated.  You might consider a thick, hardened washer of the correct inside diameter to place over the stud before fastening the castle nut.  Although a washer will probably have too large an outside diameter.  Another possibility is to use a machinery bushing.  These are thick, but with a smaller outside diameter than a washer.  Another possibility is to find a jam nut of the correct diameter and pitch.  A jam nut is a hex nut about half the height of a standard hex nut.  You could install the jam nut first, then the castle nut, and this would move the slots in the castle nut closer to the threaded end of the ball joint stud.

Yes, I already made a washer and grinded the side flat, however it is just barely thick enough. I might try the idea of the jam nut. However, I don't have a jam nut and I don't know where I can get one quick. I might try a regular 1/2''-20 nut to see if this if enough or too much.

Quote from: Lowrider2905 on July 23, 2019, 12:08:09 AM
had the same issue. There where approx. 2 mm misssing. Machined 2 shims from good steel to make sure, the pin secured the nut.
Works perfect.

Hi Richard,
Ok, very good! Glad to hear. Yes, that's about the same that is missing on mine too!
I will leave the original piece in place and just put the additional washer on top of it.

Thanks, Wes. Yes, August, September and early October are my favorite months anyways!

Best regards,
Nicolas

The True Value Hardware store in my town carries jam nuts.  Ace Hardware may carry them too.  Wouldn't count on Lowe's or Home Depot but who knows.

Quote from: 35-709 on July 23, 2019, 07:17:52 PM
The True Value Hardware store in my town carries jam nuts. 

I really doubt that Nicolas will take a plane to reach 2 jam nuts!

Niclas,

I think Christopher was correct with the height of the nut.

After my 2 shims I fabricated, I bought a  box with plenty of nuts during my last US holiday. What I can tell you is, that these crown nuts where higher and if I would change them one day, the cotter pin would fit perfectly. I bought a complete front end rebuilt kit 6 years ago, all the other parts where perfect in fit. But nothing wrong with shims IMHO.

Greetings, Richard

Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on July 24, 2019, 02:31:35 AM
I really doubt that Nicolas will take a plane to reach 2 jam nuts!

;D ;D ;D  Must remember to engage brain before typing.  Forgot Nicolas was not in the U.S.  I could mail some to him though! 
8) 

Hi guys,

Update on the ball joint nut and cotter pin issue.
First of all, consider the first picture. The second ball joint from the right is an original upper ball joint. There is no hole for a cotter pin. Also the shop manual does not mention a cotter pin but a lock nut. These are to "old" style lock nut, without the nylon. The other ball joints to either side are reproductions of unknown original or age.

I did check that the eccentric is sitting right, there is no space between the top of the hole for the eccentric, so it must sit good, also the ball joint stud fits tight. Both sides look the same.

I bough some 4mm thick washers and cut those to mimic the shape of the original one. Together with the original ones they are now about 8mm thick. Now I could torque the nuts and insert the cotter pin.

I then moved the Caddy on to the lift to reattach the exhaust, because I had an exhaust leak. I also but in all cotter pins, had to adjust the wheel bearings, install the flex plate cover and do some other smaller stuff.

Then I was on my way to a longer test drive, about 60 miles on highway and up a smaller mountain road.
Car performed nice, the suspension is super nice. The pure hydraulic shocks are worth it.
Attached a few picture of my "control panel" inside the car.
The second to last shows highway driving, 120 km/h (75mph), rpm is about 2600, vacuum about 16-17'', oil pressure around 40 psi, air fuel ratio is between 14.5 - 14.7.
So right about perfect.

The last pictures shows idle, with about 600 rpm, vacuum is too low at 15'', oil pressure at about 18psi, and air fuel ratio is horrible at around 13. So much too rich.

I did not know what would cause this richness in the idle. I was also not able to adjust idle nicely.
Today after work I realized that this must be caused by a too wide open throttle plate exposing the idle transition slots, because the idle mixture screws are almost complete turned in.

So now I screwed the idle speed screw out "completely" and will set the idle mixture to about 4 turns out. Let's see what happens. I noticed too that the throttle plate does not close completely, it is strangely held open by the accelerator pump lever! Strange. I have to investigate this issue further.

Next post will be about the new distributor and the test stand that I build myself to test it.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Nice to see that you solve the cotter pin issue.

What type of carb do you have?

Will check my vac, so normally you should have highest vac at idle. Is the panel temporary for adjustments? I installed a fixed panel in my 66 made from aluminum with oiltemp and pressure. And real water temp.

Oil pressure is pretty good while driving. The 429 has a pretty low pressure compared to this.

Where do you have installed the fuel/air mixture sensor?

Greetings, Richard

You probably aren't going to get the same vacuum as stock with an non-stock cam.  You may find that the engine wants more idle fuel.  You can pull the idle tubes and enlarge slightly if needed.  The restriction is at the very bottom of the idle tube.  I don't think that the 68 Quadrajet has idle bypass air, so you will need to be careful that the primaries are not open too much and causing nozzle drip.  You should be able to close the primary throttle completely so you need to look at why that is hanging up.  You might need to re-bush the primary shaft and re-index the throttle plates so that they close properly.

There are a lot of resources available for Quadrajet tuning/adjustment, but I personally like Cliff Ruggles' book the best.  I wouldn't be too worried about the A/F ratio at idle.  You just need to focus on getting the lowest smoothest idle possible.

Quote from: Lowrider2905 on July 30, 2019, 05:29:49 AM
What type of carb do you have?

Oil pressure is pretty good while driving. The 429 has a pretty low pressure compared to this.

Where do you have installed the fuel/air mixture sensor?

Greetings, Richard

Hi Richard,

Unfortunately, I don't have an original one but close. 7029232 - it is for a 69 Eldorado (if my infos are correct).
The panel is just for the initial break-in and tuning period. So I guess until the engine drives nicely.

I have welded an adapter to the exhaust pipe about 10 inches after the pipes connect. I have added a few pictures. I thick I have jet to take a picture with the exhaust installed. It clears the floor pan and the shift linkage.

Quote from: klinebau on July 30, 2019, 10:31:21 AM
You probably aren't going to get the same vacuum as stock with an non-stock cam.  You may find that the engine wants more idle fuel.  You can pull the idle tubes and enlarge slightly if needed.  The restriction is at the very bottom of the idle tube.  I don't think that the 68 Quadrajet has idle bypass air, so you will need to be careful that the primaries are not open too much and causing nozzle drip.  You should be able to close the primary throttle completely so you need to look at why that is hanging up.  You might need to re-bush the primary shaft and re-index the throttle plates so that they close properly.

There are a lot of resources available for Quadrajet tuning/adjustment, but I personally like Cliff Ruggles' book the best.  I wouldn't be too worried about the A/F ratio at idle.  You just need to focus on getting the lowest smoothest idle possible.

Hi Kurt

I have not jet noticed a nozzle drip, but that could also be a problem. I think the idle tube supplies enough fuel but there is not enough air. The mixture is always pretty rich. You are probably right, I need to drill or open up the air feed. Unfortunately I only have the book Rochester Carburetors from Doug Roe, it does not explain how to modify those.

Would you mind to scan me the relevant pages about idle mixture and tuning tips?

I was able to adjust the linkage to give me a bit lower throttle blade. I let the engine warm up with the choke and shut it off, throttle only open one turn. Would not start. Only started and idles with about 2,5 turns. Once I got about 18 inches, so that tells me that I am working at the right issue. In gear at 450rpm  I have it idle better at 15 inches and 12.8 air fuel ratio. 
(if I increase the idle speed in gear the speed in park increases to about 900-1000)

Thank you very much
Best regards,
Nicolas

Quote from: DeVille68 on July 30, 2019, 03:30:05 PM

I have it idle better at 15 inches and 12.8 air fuel ratio. 

It would be interesting to know his value 12.8 air/fuel ratio is translated in CO at the exhaust. In those years, 2 to 3 % CO was acceptable. One is sure: you never will get 14.7 at idle with a carburator.

Quote from: DeVille68 on July 30, 2019, 03:30:05 PM
Unfortunately, I don't have an original one but close. 7029232 - it is for a 69 Eldorado (if my infos are correct).

Awh Nicolas I could have included a proper carburetor if I knew you needed one with the shipment of parts last summer.

Hi Roger

I can measure this tomorrow or the day after!

Hi Mark,
Nice! You have one with the correct number? Anyways, I probably have to modify the idle air system. There is a restriction that I need to open up. Strangely the current baseplate has no provision for an idle air bypass!
I do not know if this is correct or not.

I might have a car (not mine) that will be sent over. So might sneak this part into the trunk...

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hi

Can anyone tell me if the base plate of my Quadrajet is correct? (first picture).
There is absolutely no air bypass passage.

Usually the picture of a Quadrajet looks something like this:
(https://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/images/c/cd/Bypass_1.jpg)
(picture from here: http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/How_to_rebuild_a_Rochester_Quadrajet_4MV_carburetor#Air_fuel_ratio)

In general:
What Quadrajet mods are needed for a 472 with MTS #5? Does anyone of you has an experience with this combo?

Thanks!
Best regards,
Nicolas

I don't believe the '69 quadrajet had idle bypass air, so I think your carburetor base plate is correct.

Although you can modify the carburetor to add idle bypass air, I think you probably can get it working as is.  I am not sure of the MTS #5 cam specs, but I don't think it has much overlap.  What source are you using for the vacuum advance?  Ported or manifold?  You will see a lot of disagreement on the internet, but you will get a more stable idle in and out of gear using ported vacuum.

With any non-stock cam, you are going to get less vacuum and therefore a weaker signal for the idle system.  This is typically why you need to add more idle fuel in these situations.  To increase idle fuel you can either enlarge the idle tube restriction or increase the idle down channel.  The idle bypass air helps to get the throttle angle in the right position relative to the transfer slot.  If the throttle blade is too high, you can increase the size of the bypass holes (or add bypass air in your case).

To start with, I would make sure the float is set correctly.  A higher float setting will get you more fuel everywhere (including idle).  I would also make sure that you are using ported vacuum.  More initial timing will also help a little.  Next, you need to figure out if the idle wants more air or fuel.  You can put your hand over the choke opening to check for a too lean idle (I like to use a heavy glove).  If the idle quality improves, you need to add idle fuel.  To check for a too rich idle, you can pull off a small vacuum hose.  If the idle improves, you need to add more idle air  (this assumes that the throttle blade is in the right spot already).  Let us know how that goes.

I should have mentioned that you need to make sure that you are fully on the idle system.  You can check this by making sure that you have full control with the idle adjustment screws.  Turning them both in all the way should lean out the idle enough to make the engine stall or at least run very rough.  Turning them out almost all the way should make the idle extremely rich and you should also get a rough idle.  If you don't have control with the idle screws, then the carburetor is likely pulling in fuel from the boosters or transfer slot.

Hi everyone,

Just now I found the time to write up what has happened during the last few months. This post is about the modifications I did to the carburetor.

From the post above I concluded that I need to enlarge the idle restriction. When I removed a vacuum hose the idle speed increased. I then removed the large vacuum hose for the brake booster and the engine nearly stalled. The air fuel ratio also increased to over 17. So that was too much air. I then made small holes into a vacuum plug to create a restriction that I could leave on the vacuum nipple and adjust the throttle blades with the vacuum leak in place. From this I could determine how much additional air was needed.

First, I bought the above referenced book: How to Rebuild & Modify Quadrajet Carburetors https://cliffshighperformance.com/Quadrajet-rebuild-kits-and-quadrajet-parts/how-to-rebuild-and-modify-rochester-quadrajet-carburetors (https://cliffshighperformance.com/Quadrajet-rebuild-kits-and-quadrajet-parts/how-to-rebuild-and-modify-rochester-quadrajet-carburetors)

The emphasis of this book is a bit different than the one I already had. The book Rochester Carburetors from Doug Roe is better at explaining all the circuits and how the Quadrajet works. The book from Cliff however is better at explaining how to modify the Quadrajet. In essence you need both of these books.


After reading the book I measured the restrictions of my (original) 69 Quadrajet: 
Idle down channel restriction = 0.040''
Idle top side bleed = 0.049''
Idle Bypass air = not equipped

The idle top side bleed is often miss identified. I have attached a picture 6216 where you can see the correct bleed identified with a drill bit. I also drilled out the idle channel restriction just above the needle. picture 6217 and 6218. You can see there are casting flashes and the they are not equal from side to side.

Then I went to the tool shop an bought every drill bit in 0.1mm increments they had.
I started with enlarging the idle down channel first to 0.051'' and the top side bleed to 0.055''
The idle quality improved a bit but not enough. After several incremental steps I stopped with the following settings:
Idle down channel restriction = 0.060''
Idle top side bleed = 0.060''

This was done with the old ignition system and vacuum advance on manifold vacuum and about 10° initial. The throttle blades could be closed almost completely.

However, I was not satisfied with the air fuel ratio during other driving conditions. WOT showed on the gauge a 10.5 air fuel ratio. Much too rich. Part throttle was also too rich at 13 to 13.5.

I then changed the primary jets from 70 to 69 (going smaller) and increased the primary rods from 43 to 42 (bigger). This should have leaned out the mixture at part throttle but keeping the mixture at WOT the same.

However, the result was pretty bad. I could barely get the car to idle. It was horrible. So I changed the jets and rods back but noticed that I had some dirt in the fuel bowl. After cleaning everything the idle was smooth again.
My conclusion: There must have been some dirt trapped inside the idle circuit preventing the idle to function correctly. 

So I changed the jets yet again and went on to a test drive. The part throttle was too lean now, at 15.5. WOT was still too rich.

After trying different secondary metering rods with no real difference in air fuel ratio I suspected the hangers to be wrong. After inspecting the hangers, I could not determine what the problem was, so I just bent the hanger slightly according to shop manual description. I bent the hanger down in two steps until I got a WOT of 12.5. Bending the hanger down prevents the rods from lifting too far out of the secondary jet, thus leaning out the mixture.

I then changed the ignition to 8° advance because of pinging and plugged the vacuum advance for now.
The idle quality suffered, so I decided to add the idle bypass channels. I used a gasket from the rebuild kit that I had bought about 4 years ago. I marked the spot for the passage and drilled a vertical hole. I then had to figure out a way how to drill a hole at an angle and to exit below the throttle blades. I asked my boss at my company, because he has a nice milling machine at home. You can see in the attached pictures, how we set up the base plate at an angle to drill the passages.
Picture 6242 shows the location of the bypass channel. Picture 6245 shows how I drilled the vertical passage. Picture 6247 shows the main body with the additional holes I made to connect the bypass passage to the main plate. The air horn (top place) must also be modified to allow filtered air to enter the bypass channel. Unfortunately, I don’t have a picture of that. Picture 6252 shows how we set up the drill and the angle to get the channel correctly aligned. Picture 6254 shows the milling machine. Picture 6261 shows the final product. We drilled the hole to 3.1mm and added a thread, then we used plugs with small holes in it to give a selection of “calibrated” restrictions. We made plugs with 1,5 up to 2,1mm holes in them.


Then I went for a test drive and tested the idle. I was finally able to close the throttle blades even more. But not yet enough. The mixture screw now had a real influence on the idle mixture. After about 5 to 6 times of removing the Quadrajet and switching out the restriction and finally drilling the idle bypass to 3.4mm I ended up with a idle mixture and throttle position with which I was satisfied with.

Now I am pretty happy so far. I have:
- WOT at 12.5 air fuel ratio
- Cruise on highway at 70 mph at about 14.7-15.0 air fuel ratio
- Cruise at 30 mph at about 14.9-15.2 air fuel ratio
- idle at about 13.5-14.0 air fuel ratio
- idle speed of about 450 to 500 rpm
- idle vacuum of about 16''

This is still with the old ignition but now with only 8° initial and no vacuum advance at all.

When stepping on the gas pedal I felt that the car would not accelerate as I would have thought it should. So while tuning the idle circuit it occurred to me that the acceleration was getting worse and worse. But this would not make any sense at all because the mixture was always good and never too lean or overly rich. So the engine should have made power. Especially at rpms above 3000 there was no power anymore... very strange.
I already started to wonder if I had installed the cam the wrong way...
Until I noticed that by removing, disassembling and installing the Quadrajet about 20 times I overtightened the mounting screws and bent the air horn! 
Check out picture 6387, where I have marked the contact area.
I then used my dremel tool to remove some of the aluminum casting around the bolt hole.
From then on I used less torque on the screws mounting the Quadrajet onto the manifold.

Then I noticed that the spring of the air valve was too tight, so I lessened the spring tension by turning the screw one half turn.

Those two changes gave a immediately responsive acceleration with power well into 4500rpm!
Before, the air valve was blocked by the bent casting and was not able to go fully open due to the too high spring pressure of the return spring.

In essence, make sure that also these "secondary" mechanisms of the Quadrajet are functioning as intended.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Next problem was a slight ticking noise of the valve train especially when gold but could also be heard when warm but to a lesser degree. I complained to my engine builder during the rebuild already because I noticed that the valve stem ends where not on the same level. So that means that something within the valve train must compensate for the difference in distance from the rocker arm tip to the valve stem. See the first picture attached below.

My rebuilder then told me that he had concentrated on machining the valve seat such that a nice combustion chamber resulted. He did not spend any though on valve train geometry.

So there are two solutions: Install caps on the valve stems or installing longer push rods. Because the reason for the ticking noise is that the hydraulic lifter is not in the middle of its stroke anymore and hits the upper end stop. This creates the ticking noise.
After buying and installing +0.030'' longer pushrods from cadcompany the noise is almost completely gone. (picture attached).
I should have bought the +0.035'' or +0.040'' but well..

Another reason why I needed longer pushrods was that I decked the block surface a bit, this also changed the geometry of the hydraulic lifter and rocker arms.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Interesting experimentation; you are now able to remove and install the carb with closed eyes!
Did you the test recently with wet roads?

Why did you go with the +0.030''? Did you discuss this with the people at cadcompany and this is what they recommended or did they suggest going longer?

I have had the same issue for a long time and this would be such a simple fix. I just need to know what size to order.

Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on December 28, 2019, 11:13:38 AM
Interesting experimentation; you are now able to remove and install the carb with closed eyes!
Did you the test recently with wet roads?

Yes, indeed!
No, luckily I finally found a garage for storing the car in the winter time. It's not great to work on, but better than to keep the car outside...

Quote from: Highwayman68 on December 28, 2019, 04:52:11 PM
Why did you go with the +0.030''? Did you discuss this with the people at cadcompany and this is what they recommended or did they suggest going longer?

I have had the same issue for a long time and this would be such a simple fix. I just need to know what size to order.

Hi, yes I discussed this with my engine builder. After I explained it to him he agreed and understood the problem. I also talked to one of the guys at cad company, and they agreed that I could try the longer pushrods.

I did measure the lifter pre-load on the lifters during the build, but the measurement was nearly in spec. I missed the opportunity there to change out the pushrods from the start. If you search for "checking lifter preload" you will find a lot of papers describing this procedure. I have attached a picture showing the lifter preload I measured. This was done during building the engine. The photo shows 0.038'' of preload, however other valves measured just 0.030''. I had to change the head gasket, it is now thicker, which means the preload also decreased. Before going to the longer pushrods I measured on some valves as low as 0.020''. However, the measuring is quite difficult, I did not expect to get exact data.
So I figured that with using +0.030'' longer pushrods the preload should be about 0.050'' to 0.070''.
Total travel of my hydraulic plunger was about 0.150'', so there is still plenty of distance for the hydraulic lifter to work with. Ideally you want the plunger to be close to the middle of the stroke of the hydraulic lifter.

If I were you, I would try to measure the lifter pre-load and also check if the valve stems are at equal height. If not this could indicate that you have the same problem that I had.

Hope this explanation makes sense.
Best regards,
Nicolas


Here is an extract from a comp-cams paper:

QuoteSection II. Setting preload with NON-ADJUSTABLE ROCKER ARMS
A different procedure is required to set hydraulic lifter pre-load on engines with nonadjustable
rocker arms. First, install the pushrods and torque all rocker arm bolts down in the proper sequence
and torque specification. Rotate the engine by hand in the normal direction of engine rotation until
both the exhaust and intake valves have opened and closed completely. Allow a couple of minutes
for the lifters to bleed down.
Using the valve cover gasket surface on the head as a reference point, place a mark on the pushrod.
The smaller, more defined the mark, the more accurate the measurement. Be sure the reference
point you choose for the first mark is easily accessible and easy to duplicate. The pushrod will be
marked twice. It must be from the same reference point and angle for the measurement to be
accurate.
Loosen the rocker or rocker shaft bolts. Leave the rockers on the head so that they will support the
pushrods. Be sure the pushrods are standing free in the lifters and do not have any pre-load. Using
the same reference point, place a second mark on the pushrod. Make sure the angle and reference
point are the same as the first mark.
You now have two marks on the pushrod: one with the assembly bolted into place as the engine
will run and the second mark with the lifter unloaded. The distance between these two points will
represent the amount of lifter pre-load. If the pre-load is not within .030” to .040,” adjustment is
necessary. The simplest way to accomplish this is by using different length pushrods. When
measuring to find the correct length needed, be sure to include .030” pre-load that the lifter
requires. If the engine uses pedestal mount rockers, shims can be placed under the pedestal to
reduce the pre-load. The stands on shaft mounted rockers can also be shimmed in this manner.
Longer pushrods will be needed for insufficient pre-load.
In most cases, only one intake and one exhaust pushrod will need to be checked. If the valve stem
heights are not equal, then preload will have to be checked on each valve.

Interesting explanation how to check the pre-load. Obviously, the method to check it cannot be very precise, but sufficient.

Yes, probably the main purpose is to check that the preload is somewhere within specs.

Another work I did just recently was fixing the radiator. It leaked a small amount of coolant from around the transmission oil cooler fittings. A friend of mine luckily just recently bought a cooling system pressure tester with all the adapters (similar to this one here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32818575941.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32818575941.html)). There was even one that fit the Cadillac radiator. Since I removed only the radiator and left the hoses in the car I had to find a way to cap of the hose fittings. I found a piece of scrap wood and attached a piece of self-adhesive insulation on one side. The insulation side towards the fitting and above a clamp to hold the wood with the insulation down. You can see it in the fotos below. It worked quite well, there was no leak trough these fittings.

The three pictures below show how we soldered the fittings. It took three attempts with pressure checks in between. Now it holds about 1.3 bar pressure.

Next up is painting the radiator. I will do this with all the brackets in one go.
Hope to get this done in the next weeks or so...

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hello

Last week I had to paint and install the radiator since I knew that I had to be able to drive the car today. So I spent the full weekend sanding, prepping and painting the radiator shields and the radiator itself. I again used POR 15 semi gloss black. I used a paint system called: Preval. It came out pretty nice.
Best part of all: the radiator is now absolutely tight. No water leaks anymore! :-)

Hello

Today, I had to take the car out of storage with a day - registration. The goal was to drive to a bodyshop to get my glass fixed the second time. The new glass was ready and I wanted to change the way the trim clips mounted also to give a better fit. The original clips are not available anymore, and if, they are insanely expensive. So I ordered some reproduction clips, which are close but not exact. Make sure you install them right, otherwise the chrome piece will sit too low and does not match the chrome windshield frame. I have included some pictures below showing the dimensions. I had about 5/8'' to 6/8'' of an inch in height from the flat frame where the windshield sits to where the clip ends. The windshield is held in place with strips of butyl. On the top edge we had to use a second butyl strip because the windshield itself and the frame were not perfectly flat. Plus my measurements showed that the glass plus one butyl strip was only just 3/8'' thick. So we added another strip to give a total thickness of about 5/8''. The windshield be high enough so that it pushes up on the chrome trim, this way the trim piece is under tension and is pulled down by the clip. The chrome trim and the windshield frame trim should be level where they meet. My chrome trim then dips a bit down to though the windshield. It looks good in my opinion. A massive improvement from the first attempt!

Also make absolutely sure that you water test your windshield before putting the chrome on! We used a water hose and really spray some water down. It took us three attempts to get the windshield to seal all the way around. We started with a bead so sealer (similar to Permatex) all the way around the side and the top. Just a small amount to seal where the butyl meets the frame and the windshield.

Only after I was really sure that the windshield is water tight I did put the chrome on. I bought new chrome screws for the lower trim piece, although I send 5 mails and called they were not able to send me the correct screw. However, it looks pretty similar and no one will notice but me..

So all in all I am extremely happy again. The windshield and chrome sit nice, I can now drive in rain again without having to fear to get wet!

My glass has a marking from PGW solex laminated.

Best regards,
Nicolas

rest of pictures

Another work I have done was to rebuild the master vacuum switch. Reason: my system has somehow developed a vacuum leak again, and I noticed that the blower would drop out after getting it turning in fog or ice mode. The vacuum switch indeed lost a bit of vacuum. So it was time to open it up and restore it. There is a spring system inside. It is quite evolved but not too bad to understand. The switch itself was indeed dirty inside. I painted the brackets and resealed the screws. Now it holds vacuum forever (ok, after 5 minutes I let go! :-) ).
See the pictures attached.

Since I had to take the car out in January I wanted the heating / blower to work again. Well, there must be some other vacuum leak still, because the blower would still drop out!  :-\
Driving around in January with no heat at all.... ow well. I got a ton of stuff done today, so despite the cold it was a great day.

Best regards,
Nicolas

I bought drive-up ramps to be able to work underneath the car without a lift. Looks pretty funny with the car at an angle! Coming weekend I hope to get started on removing the complete driveshaft, axle, suspension and gas tank!
Stay tuned to more updates.
Best regards,
Nicolas

P.S: Let me know if you know someone that makes the correct cooling system decal. Because the reproduction you can buy is completely off. Check out the picture below. Color is wrong, logo is not sharp, font is sometimes wrong. Position is not correct.

Quote from: DeVille68 on January 16, 2020, 03:39:14 PM
Another work I have done was to rebuild the master vacuum switch. Reason: my system has somehow developed a vacuum leak again, and I noticed that the blower would drop out after getting it turning in fog or ice mode. The vacuum switch indeed lost a bit of vacuum. So it was time to open it up and restore it. There is a spring system inside. It is quite evolved but not too bad to understand. The switch itself was indeed dirty inside. I painted the brackets and resealed the screws. Now it holds vacuum forever (ok, after 5 minutes I let go! :-) ).
See the pictures attached.

Since I had to take the car out in January I wanted the heating / blower to work again. Well, there must be some other vacuum leak still, because the blower would still drop out!  :-\
Driving around in January with no heat at all.... ow well. I got a ton of stuff done today, so despite the cold it was a great day.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Thanks for the pictures, it helps to see what I will be getting into.

Quote from: DeVille68 on December 29, 2019, 04:51:10 AM
Yes, indeed!
No, luckily I finally found a garage for storing the car in the winter time. It's not great to work on, but better than to keep the car outside...

I’m now very wary of storing our cars under covers with the hood closed. Got rodents in the hood liner of two vehicles. In our Calais, they built a nest and my bait got to momma and daddy rodent. The stench from the dead pups required me to throw out the insulation pad.  >:(

Now, everything is covered, but with hoods up.

Quote from: Gene Beaird on January 18, 2020, 11:08:57 AM
I’m now very wary of storing our cars under covers with the hood closed. Got rodents in the hood liner of two vehicles. In our Calais, they built a nest and my bait got to momma and daddy rodent. The stench from the dead pups required me to throw out the insulation pad.  >:(

Now, everything is covered, but with hoods up.

ohw, wow. Those animals are no problem here in Switzerland. The cats use my car cover to stretch themself and we have an animal called marten - he likes especially rubber hoses! (like gas or power steering hoses....). I was worried while the car was outside during the summer. 
But in the garage I have my car now, no animals should live inside. I stored my car for about three years out in a barn in a field. There was even no road to barn itself. I had to drive though the grass for about 200 yards. I got lucky, nothing bad happened to the car.

Best regards,
Nicolas

I’ve heard about martins. They can be bad, too. Good thing the cats can guard things. Hopefully no male cat deems it necessary to ‘make’ the covered car his.

The rodents can’t ’live’ in our shop. There’s nothing to eat, but it’s a relatively warm and dry place to set up house, raise the kids, and bring dinner home to every night. Keeping them out requires a multi-pronged attack, which includes keeping the hoods up to discourage hoodliner living.

I wish i had the time space and money to do this to my 66.
Your doing a great job.

Quote from: spolij on February 11, 2020, 10:10:48 PM
I wish i had the time space and money to do this to my 66.
Your doing a great job.

Well, the space I rent now is just temporary - I don't know yet how long I can have this garage. It is not optimal, there is no lift, roof is very low, no heating, no water, no nothing....

Last few weeks I was able to get some things done and prepared. I started by removing the driveshaft, which is quite simple, you just have to unbolt the flange at the differential, then slide the driveshaft rearward. However, this was not possible because I lifted the car up. So I had to lift the differential with another jack, to ride height basically. The problem with letting the diff hang down is that it moves forward and down preventing that I could slide the driveshaft flange out. So you will see in the pictures below that I raised to diff enough to have slide the driveshaft forward to disengage the flange. Once free in the rear one can slide the driveshaft out of the transmission, but be prepared, transmission fluid will flow out immediately!

Next I removed the upper arms, but one lower arm gave me problems. The screw must have rusted so badly inside the bushing that I was not able to turn the screw out. You can see below the bushing within a pocket on the frame. I made a special tool with a bolt "designed" to push and press on the end of the screw to push it out. You can see in the picture below how I held the one piece still while turning the screw out. This then pushed on the tip of the screw in the bushing and I was able to slowly push the screw out of the bushing. However, I would only go so far as 2 inches out of the pocket in the frame, then it was again stuck withing the rust, so I just cut it off and was then able to remove the lower arm.
The complete rear axle is now removed from the car.

The first picture shows the complete axle removed and on the floor.
Now to the removal of the upper arms, you have to drill a 1-1/4'' hole in to the floor. The shop manual has a detailed description. So just mark the location and drill it. I used a standard step bit and bought some 1-1/4'' plugs. As you can see those fit perfectly and will be installed with some sealer when I reinstall the suspension.

I also removed all the brackets I could unbolt, those for the handbrake, brake line, wheel covers, tank etc.
Now the complete floor is ready to be cleaned, with will take forever, I wonder how I can keep the motivation up to work from underneath the car with all the junk falling down on me....well we see...

I also cleaned the gas tank, it is in surprisingly good state. Just one dent that someone has put into it. My plans are now halted, since I want to remove this dent first. I somehow need to find someone that can weld on studs and then pull on them.

The work will go on.

Can you not push from the inlet (a broom stick or similar) to push the dent? If not, Metro radiators can handle your issue.

Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on March 15, 2020, 05:11:46 PM
Can you not push from the inlet (a broom stick or similar) to push the dent? If not, Metro radiators can handle your issue.

I tried to push and pull the dent with no success. The problem is that the force needed to push the dent out is so large that it starts to deform the inlet. I don't want to risk to bend or rip open the mounting area of the inlet tube. Do you know someone who has a weld stud kit or is able to do the work? Something like this here: https://www.amazon.com/Auto-Shot-5500-Welder-Stud/dp/B000RT6AW6 (https://www.amazon.com/Auto-Shot-5500-Welder-Stud/dp/B000RT6AW6)

Today my rivet nut tool finally showed up, this tool will be used to insert new threads into the windshield frame that hold to top latch mounts. More on that soon.

Best regards,
Nicolas

One thing you could try is to bend up a 1" steel rod, so that it extends through the filler hole, and down to reach the internal part of the dent, then with a heavy object, pound down on the outside end of the rod to massage the dent.

This rod could be bent at 90 degrees, then after it protruded at 90 degrees upwards for a distance to allow you to physically grasp the rod, and also enough length so as not to hit your hand when pounding down on the rod.

At the internal end of the rod, remove sharp edges so the actions do not damage the inside coating of the tank, as Petrol Tanks are internally "tinned" to protect from rusting.

Bruce. >:D

Hi Bruce

Good idea, or hint. When I put the tank on the floor with the dent towards the floor and construct somekind of a "hinge" along with that mentioned rod I might be able to use force or pressure downwards. The rod would then push the dent towards the floor and the floor itself would prevent that I put a  new dent into the tank while trying to remove the existing one.

Just need to figure out how to create a strong enough hinge and lever mechanism....

I began inserting rivet nuts into the top frame. Those are 1/4''-20 UNC. The lower inserts were easy, the top one was difficult to judge the angle - I got it wrong. Maybe I can bend the sheet metal a bit or I need to drill it out and do it again.
However, I was not able to mount to top hinge because it has a boss cast into it that now touches the rivets. I need to grind the thickness of the rivets from these bosses, otherwise the top hinge will not sit right.
See the pictures below.

I also managed to motivate myself to continue scraping the undercoating of the floor and frame. Dressed in true Corona-Style I got a bit work done, lot of hours of fun can be had....  :o

Best regards,
Nicolas

P.S: Strange how the forum turns vertical pictures to the horizontal. I am not able to correct this!? How can I prevent the forum from turning my pictures? They look correct on my pc and phone?!

Quote from: DeVille68 on March 17, 2020, 04:20:54 PM


I also managed to motivate myself to continue scraping the undercoating of the floor and frame. Dressed in true Corona-Style I got a bit work done, lot of hours of fun can be had....  :o

I did 3 cars that way: scraping the underbody to remove rust and old undercoating, while on my back!

Oh, wow hope you back has not suffered! :-)
Well, I build a roller to work underneath the car. I just used some scrap wood, four plastic rollers and some packaging foam. Works pretty good! Check out the pictures below.
I also installed all three rivet nuts and used my dremel tool to massage the casting a bit. Unfortunately, I was not able to get it perfectly sitting on the frame but the passenger side is not much better. So I just let it be, nobody will notice.

Another question that I hope someone can answer:
The rear springs have a top and bottom insulator. The bottom insulator is readily available the upper not. Check out the pictures below. My spring measures: wire diameter 5/8'' (0.625'') and inside diameter about 5.4''
The rubber insulator is about 3/16'' thick.

Does anyone know where to buy such a part?

I found on summit a so called coil spring spacer: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/oer-14927
It is made out of rubber, but the dimension is for a smaller inside diameter coil, only about 3'' instead of 5.4''. The wire diameter however, seems to be about right. The thickness is 0.3'', so almost double of what I actually need.

Any help appreciated.

Best regards,
Nicolas

For the upper spring insulator you might want to consider a length of 5/8" ID heater hose. Make a lengthwise cut through it, split is open and install it your spring. With the fabric cord reinforcement in the hose it is probably stronger than the original part.

Hi Mike

ok, good idea. I will see with what I can come up with.
In the meantime I spent another couple of hours, now I have "finished" the scraping part, that is phase 1. I scraped all the undercoating of until I reached the front floor boards. Those need to replaced anyways, not now, but no need to paint those nicely now.
Consider the picture below, where the undercoating was still intact the paint underneath it was still perfect. The color is not a semi gloss black but has some green tint I think. Not sure what color that is. Also not sure who applied the undercoating? Was this a factory option or standard procedure? Because the undercoating is sometimes in spots that are hard to reach. Seems to me that they applied the undercoating with the body was not yet on the frame. Or someone really applied this stuff very very well.

Anyone can give some insights on the undercoating story?

Next couple of evening will be spent with the wire wheel! :-D

Best regards,
Nicolas

Well, I survived the cleaning of 3 cars; it was done in a time frame of about 15 years!

It is my understanding that cars had no underbody coating from the factory and that the primer was a red oxyde color. That can be true for the fifties but I don't know if the process changed over the years. While looking at the pictures I have from my '72 coupe during its refreshing in the US, the underbody was undercoated which seems to be from the factory.
Most probably other who know more about this subject will give an answer.

Hello Nicolas,

My recollection from posts on this forum is that undercoating was done at the dealership, or by another party.  Ziebart was a well known franchise for rust-proofing and undercoating here in the U.S.

My '67 has "red lead" primer on some parts of the underbody as well as undercoating.

When I was your age or younger back in 1979, I scraped the undercoating off my '60 Chevy Impala.  Then I sandblasted the underbody which left a nice surface for paint.  If you use a wire wheel, you may need to follow it up with a degreaser so that no undercoating residue is left to contaminate new paint.  Keep up the good work.

Christopher Winter

My '60 CDV had the red Oxide underneath.

My '72 Eldorado had proofcoating, but definitely not done by anyone that cared about the vehicle.

There were 1/2" holes drilled in the sills, doors, etcetera, BUT, some are visible in plain sight when opening the doors.   They didn't even bother to unscrew the sill plates and drill under them so the holes could be covered up.   Or even fit plugs to the rest.

Bruce. >:D

PS.   But, at least it possibly saved the car from rusting.

Hello

ok, hm, there is no red oxide anywhere, expect on the fender that they replaced some years ago.

I will take another detailed look, but I think this is really a paint or coating from the factory.

I will use acetone after the wire wheel session, and then possibly some metal prep from POR15. This will etch the metal.

I also plan on spraying Mike Sanders into the frame rails and hidden structures, but I think there are enough access holes already. Interesting that they didn't even put plugs into the holes.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Quote from: DeVille68 on January 16, 2020, 03:46:50 PM
I bought drive-up ramps to be able to work underneath the car without a lift. Looks pretty funny with the car at an angle! Coming weekend I hope to get started on removing the complete driveshaft, axle, suspension and gas tank!
Stay tuned to more updates.
Best regards,
Nicolas

P.S: Let me know if you know someone that makes the correct cooling system decal. Because the reproduction you can buy is completely off. Check out the picture below. Color is wrong, logo is not sharp, font is sometimes wrong. Position is not correct.

Nicholas,

Have you tried OPGI for the cooling system labels? I bought some for my 69 and they were very good reproductions.

Quote from: sturner50502 on March 23, 2020, 11:12:12 PM
Nicholas,

Have you tried OPGI for the cooling system labels? I bought some for my 69 and they were very good reproductions.

Someone makes there horrible repos and everybody sells those. OPGI has the same bad stuff. (I just checked their website)
I really need to make my own.
However, the frame cleanup and paint has priority now.
Best regards,
Nicolas

Working under the car - you might try putting a fan on the floor blowing towards your head. It will at least blow the dust away from you.
As for the dent body shops used to use a rubber suction cup to pull dents with. I don't know if they are still available but it sounds like it would work

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Nicolas,

Try Jim Osborn Reproductions: http://osborn-reproduction.com/. They have a 100 page catalog of engine compartment labels. Excellent quality and service.

HTH

Here is the dent puller i was thinking of.  https://bit.ly/3bq8REu

Hi John,

Thanks for the links! That might work. However, I don't know if it can pull the dent out because the dent is not only on the flat part but also on the reinforcement dimple.
Well, today I gave the tank to a body man, he tries to push or pull it out. Let's see if he is able to do it.
The repair does not need to be perfect, since it is not readily be seen.

Thanks Ralph for the link. It seems that the website is asleep since 2015. Well, I gave them a call and it seems that they have the correct decal with the blue crest and blue gm logo. Well...lets see...what arrives in the mail.

Another issue that I am facing is with the glove box lock. I wanted to adjust the door, because the door would not shut right anymore and open it was even more difficult. Well, turns out that the three screws holding the door have loosened up and caused a slight misalignment.
I had a ton of troubles removing the lock cylinder, somehow after fielding for a half an hour it suddenly dropped out.  Well, turned out that the misalignment caused the catch arm to break of, this might caused the difficulties opening the glove box.
So, now I need to either fix that broken arm or find a new glove box housing. Anyone?

Best regards,
Nicolas

The  locks are cheap on the Internet.  Your only problem is the key will be different than the ignition. Personally i don't care if i can lock the glove box.

I have only found two items on ebay that are the correct housing for a 68 glove box. Prices start at around 50$ so that going to be close to 120$ till this item makes to my home.
I decided to glue the pieces together.
Unfortunately, it broke again and was in three pieces. I used JB weld first. But then while sanding the excess the one piece on the side fell off again. So I drilled a small hole through the pieces and used a small wire to give it strength against bending.
Then I used some superglue because this stuff will find its was into the smallest cracks unlike to epoxy.

So far so good, glove box lock is fixed and adjusted.
Meanwhile, I was again cleaning the underside with my wirewheels.

Best regards,
Nicoals

Should be easy to make one such piece with brass! (and for less money)

Nicoals "The repair does not need to be perfect, since it is not readily be seen. " Body filler?

120$ till this item makes to my home.  Where do you live?

Quote from: DeVille68 on March 15, 2020, 03:39:28 PM
I also removed all the brackets I could unbolt, those for the handbrake, brake line, wheel covers, tank etc.
Now the complete floor is ready to be cleaned, with will take forever, I wonder how I can keep the motivation up to work from underneath the car with all the junk falling down on me....well we see...

I also cleaned the gas tank, it is in surprisingly good state. Just one dent that someone has put into it. My plans are now halted, since I want to remove this dent first. I somehow need to find someone that can weld on studs and then pull on them.

The work will go on.

Nicholas,

I was thumbing through some of my repair manuals and saw a method for removing dents from gas tanks, It says to fill the tank with water, put on a non vented cap and add compressed air. The air pressure will push the dent out.

The manual warns not to do this with air only as it will cause the tank to explode. I guess the water makes a difference?

I never heard of this before and I offer it only because I read it the other night. Proceed at your own risk, if you try it. Also, I can send you the instructions if you are interested.

Steve

Quote from: spolij on March 29, 2020, 09:54:36 PM

120$ till this item makes to my home.  Where do you live?

Nicolas is in Switzerland. Shipping is always expensive!

Hi Guys,

uh, the method with inflating the tank is too risky to me. Well, pressure acts on any surface, so also the water surface. Don't know what the water should do expect for decreasing the necessary air volume to create sufficient pressure. Water is not compressible, so its volume counts 1:1, but air is compressible and you would need a significant amount of air to have a (probably?) slighter higher than atmosphere pressure.

Well, for me the guesswork is over. The tank is already at the body shop.

As if I did not have enough projects - I added another one!  ::)
I was looking at all those sad body bushing underneath  the car while cleaning the underbody with my wire wheels. I then remember having read an article by Scot Minesinger, it is attached to this post. So then I searched for rubber parts and found some generic ones on the website of metro moulded parts: https://www.metrommp.com/index.cfm (https://www.metrommp.com/index.cfm).
Since this list is not easy to read I created an excel table with all the relevant bushings they have. It is attached to this post.

There you can see, that you need an upper and an lower bushing, which are slightly different. The exact drawing are given in the shop manual. Also attached.

I looked at them and decided that there is really no difference in the rubber, but only in how those mount. So you can or I hope - let's see - buy only a bunch of each kind. This is also the way that Scot did his rebuild.
So I ordered a bunch of BC-5E and BC-4 bushings. Cost was over 400.- $  :-\ :o

Attached are also a few pictures of the bushings, No 7,6,5. I have yet to fully remove the upper part of those bushings.

Progress on the cleaning and de-rusting is slow, but I am getting there. I am about half way through now. I'll post a picture, but it is not able to tell the story..

P.S: Regarding the excel file that I mentioned. It is uploaded as a .pdf, so when you download it, you have to rename the file from ending .pdf to .xlsx
This was necessary, because the forum prevent you from uploading a excel file. I hope this trick works!

Best regards,
Nicolas

Quote from: DeVille68 on April 04, 2020, 02:02:04 PM
Hi Guys,

uh, the method with inflating the tank is too risky to me. Well, pressure acts on any surface, so also the water surface. Don't know what the water should do expect for decreasing the necessary air volume to create sufficient pressure. Water is not compressible, to its volume counts 1:1, but with air it is compressible and you would need a significant amount of air to have a (probably?) slighter higher than atmosphere pressure.

Well, for me the guesswork is over. The tank is already at the body shop.

As if I did not have enough projects - I added another one!  ::)
I was looking at all those sad body bushing underneath  the car while cleaning the underbody with my wire wheels. I then remember having read an article by Scot Minesinger, it is attached to this post. So then I searched for rubber parts and found some generic ones on the website of metro moulded parts: https://www.metrommp.com/index.cfm (https://www.metrommp.com/index.cfm).
Since this list is not easy to read I created an excel table with all the relevant bushings they have. It is attached to this post.

There you can see, that you need an upper and an lower bushing, which are slightly different. The exact drawing are given in the shop manual. Also attached.

I looked at them and decided that there is really no difference in the rubber, but only in how those mount. So you can or I hope - let's see - buy only a bunch of each kind. This is also the way that Scot did his rebuild.
So I ordered a bunch of BC-5E and BC-4 bushings. Cost was over 400.- $  :-\ :o

Attached are also a few pictures of the bushings, No 7,6,5. I have yet to fully remove the upper part of those bushings.

Progress on the cleaning and de-rusting is slow, but I am getting there. I am about half way through now. I'll post a picture, but it is not able to tell the story..

P.S: Regarding the excel file that I mentioned. It is uploaded as a .pdf, so when you download it, you have to rename the file from ending .pdf to .xlsx
This was necessary, because the forum prevent you from uploading a excel file. I hope this trick works!

Best regards,
Nicolas

Nicolas,

I dont blame you one bit for not trying the water/compressed air method! I thought it sounded dangerous too. Sounds like you are getting it fixed using much less dangerous method.

Hello Guys,

I hope you had a safe Easter. Thanks to the staying home policy I got much done on the car. The undercarriage and frame is all painted now. Check out the sequence of pictures below.
I used POR-15 semi gloss black. The probably original primer on the floor was somewhat anthracite but really dark. There is not a single drop of red oxide primer anywhere. Why? Did they really use red oxide from the factory? Where there different primers used?

After having scraped of the undercoating, I continued with the wire wheel. I think I went through a set of at least 10 pieces. I did not remove completely all of the rust, because it is not necessary. First of all, there is an other side or a hidden side of the metal that I can't reach. And then there is also the inside of the frame. So it made not much sense to have it perfectly clean when the next rust spot is just inches away. Then I cleaned everything with Aceton and Brake Cleaner. Then I used a full bottle of POR Metal Ready. This is basically a Phosphate coating which stops the rust and improves adhesion. I then cleaned everything again with Aceton and Brake Cleaner. Then I used a combination of spray can and brush to apply the POR15.
I think it came out pretty nicely. Not a show car but something I can drive for another 50 years.

This means that I can now start reassembling some stuff, like the fuel system and brake line.
I will need to completely rebuild the rear axle though - have not yet stated on this big project yet...

Next up will hopefully be the install of the freshly restored gas tank.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Looks good!

Hello,

some various updates.

First, about 4 years ago I rebuild my Quadrajet and I sealed the fuel well plugs with epoxy. Well that epoxy deteriorated due to heat and gasoline. So during last summer I bought the kit from cliffhighperformance.com
https://cliffshighperformance.com/Quadrajet-rebuild-kits-and-quadrajet-parts/bottom-plug-kit (https://cliffshighperformance.com/Quadrajet-rebuild-kits-and-quadrajet-parts/bottom-plug-kit)
Now, it was time to finally do this repair. See below, there are a few pictures. Actually, it is quite simple, one just has to work slowly because damage to the quadrajet can easily happen. I was able to seal the two main plugs and four other plugs without issue.
I also replaced the primary metering rod from 44B to 43B because I noticed that part throttle on the highway was a bit lean.
One trick to get the tap straight is to lay a level-gauge on top of it.

The gastank returned perfectly fixed, I can't find the location of the dent anymore! They used weld-on-studs.

When doing the underbody, I noticed that the plates used for lifting the body where deteriorated. Meaning that the sealant became brittle over time. Actually the two one in the floor looked sad from the bottom but inside the trunk they were still perfect. So I left those in. But the two under the rear seat were removed. The sealant was very brittle. I will repaint the plates and reseal those.

I also created new rubber strips for mounting the gastank. There are four rubber strip, on each tank strap and also above the tank. All four pieces were missing on my tank! I cut the rubber just a bit too large was is noted in the Authenticity Manual.
Also the Authenticity Manual states that the primer of the underbody was black or dark anthracite. So that means that all the underbody of my car was still original along with the original primer. It does not mention undercoating - so maybe this was added later.

Hopefully, I am able to coat and paint the gas tank through next week.
I'll keep you updated.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Quote from: DeVille68 on April 19, 2020, 02:55:12 PM
First, about 4 years ago I rebuild my Quadrajet and I sealed the fuel well plugs with epoxy. Well that epoxy deteriorated due to heat and gasoline. So during last summer I bought the kit from cliffhighperformance.com
https://cliffshighperformance.com/Quadrajet-rebuild-kits-and-quadrajet-parts/bottom-plug-kit (https://cliffshighperformance.com/Quadrajet-rebuild-kits-and-quadrajet-parts/bottom-plug-kit)
Now, it was time to finally do this repair. See below, there are a few pictures. Actually, it is quite simple, one just has to work slowly because damage to the quadrajet can easily happen. I was able to seal the two main plugs and four other plugs without issue.

I am glad that you performed this repair.  That is truly a permanent fix.  This is a nice kit and price is reasonable.  I am sure you could piece it together individually, but it nice to get everything together without having to hunt everything down.  I also found that it was not that hard to do and turned out to be not as scary as I thought.

If I'm understanding correctly: you are removing the original plugs and install threaded plugs with a sealer? Who knows, I may have to do that one day on my '72!
About the gas tank: you will have to ground it, otherwise the fuel gauge will not work.

Yes, one could piece it together. But just figuring out which diameters and which epoxy will work takes time. I already tried one epoxy that did not hold up.

Yes, I already created a new ground wire.
I also opened up the level sender. It is quite a complicated piece. It is held together with three taps.
On the inside there is a lever with a delicate spring and slider. On the outside there is a very thin resistor wire wound around what seem to be some sort of insulation. It is also insulated against the housing.

I used some sandpaper and very gently sanded the wire and slider, just a bit to remove oxidation.
New the ohm meter showed nice steady reading.
I also checked the height of the level gauge. My tank is almost exactly 13,5cm deep (5,3''). And the float and intake screen are properly located. I also glued the intake screen to the line because it was not a very tight fit. I did not want to risk to have it fall of the line.

I also examined and cleaned the tank on the inside. It is looking so nicely and fresh inside that I think I am going to skip the sealing step on the inside and just pour some metal ready in it to have the seams protected. After that I will paint the tank on the outside.

Does anyone know what the dimensions of an original tank are?
Maybe this tank was already replaced some time ago. I can hardly believe that an original piece would still look so nice.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Nick Is shipping so expensive because of it comming from a retailer? Would a person not retailer be cheaper?

My experience is that most retailers are making more money with the "shipping & handling" as with the parts.

Ralph is it cheaper for some body to buy it have it delivered here and then ship it over?

Well, not necessarily. Shipping is always expensive.
I have a couple of friends in the states who hold and package stuff for me. Currently some pieces (driveshaft, muffler, floor pan) are underway in the trunk of a friends car.
The upside is shipping cost, the downside is time.

I made a new sending unit wire. Of course I had to reuse the original crimp / terminal because I have no stock of those yet. Really need to buy a bag of different sizes.
I was also painting the gas tank. Looks horribly with the metal ready from POR-15 applied, but then after painting turns out quite nice.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hello,

I made a little progress this long weekend. I have sandblasted all the suspension arms and a lot of brackets. I replaced the bushing in the upper and lower arms. The replacement bushings I got had the same part number than those that were installed in the upper arm. The upper arm has never been replaced, because I had to drill a hole into the floor to remove the screw. So, those were the factory bushings. Luckily the part number matched. See the first picture. The label reads: Harris Silentblock FG 62496 (and then some letter and number, maybe indicating a date or a cavity of the rubber press).

So, either the original manufacturer still supplies those bushings or the reproductions even copied the lettering and numbers. The shop manual says that the rubber compound is different, however I was not able to check that. Either someone replaced the lower bushings, which I doubt, or it is an error in the manual.

Either way, the restored parts turned out quite nice.

I also installed the tank and "calibrated" the gauge. Seems to work fine. Looks really good underneath now.

I removed the extension housing of the transmission, replaced the seal at the end and also replaced the o-ring on the output shaft. I used some permatex on the extension flange to transmission surface.

Next up is installing those.
I am also working on special tools to measure the LSD break torque and need to make a tool to remove and install the pinion yoke.

Best regards,
Nicolas

You're way too modest-- you've made so much progress.  Would be interesting, if not too much trouble, if you'd list what needs doing... that way we bench sitters can enjoy the anticipation and further track both your narrative and your progress.  Thank you for keeping us engaged.   Happy day,  James

Sorry my neck was hurting. lol

Hi James

Thanks a lot! Well the list is still huge! :-D
I use Microsoft To Do (previously Wunderlist) to keep track of the things to do. Currently there are still over 60 tasks to be done! :-D Well, only about 10 are really necessary. There are a lot of long term projects.

Listing all what need to be done would be quite a list. In essence: rebuild the complete rear end, that is axle shaft bearings, all seals, remove rust, paint, rebuild brakes.

Hi John,
yeah, strange. I noticed too that the pictures are upside down. But when I click on them to enlarge them, they are displaced correctly in my browser? Hm...

Best regards,
Nicoals

Hello

Another update: During the week I was working on two tools to finally tackle work to be done to the rear axle and differential. I had to create a pinion flange holding tool and a fixture to measure torque on one wheel.
The axle shaft puller tool was already created two years ago.

See below, these are very crude but do work. I am not a professional, so scrap parts must fulfill the job.

First, I removed the two floor plates behind the front seat on the floor. The seal on these was also crusty and brittle and I noticed that underneath the (maybe original?) carpet there is a padding which has soaked up all the water and the metal started to rust some. Not major but still. Going to replace this padding on the floor. I'll leave the carpet alone. Check out the first four pictures.

Then I removed the brakes, which is pretty simple. Although a bolt of the handbrake bracket broke of on both sides. I guess I am the first one since the assembly line to have put a wrench on these!
Check out the next four pictures.

Also important: I was wondering for years why my rear brakes would brake but not as strong as I wanted to. All the stopping was basically done by the front breaks. Now I found the reason: The brake pads have made a deep (about 1mm) notch into the backing plate. Applying a little brake force would push the pads into this groove and then the stopping power from the rear would just remain the same. Usually to brake force was not high enough to push the pads out of this groove because the additional force was sufficient to stop the gar with the front brakes.

So, I am going to weld these notches and grind or sand them flat again.

On to the differential: With the aforementioned tools I was able to measure runout, torque and brakeaway torque.

pinion torque: I could not "measure" this, but it must have been lower than 2Nm because thats the lowest setting on my torque wrench. Maybe too low, lets see what reading I get when I assembly the diff again.

Breakaway torque: You measure this by holding the pinion fixed and on a limited slip it is sufficient to then start turning one wheel. With the adapter I made I could position the torque wrench in the middle. Since the axle was out on the floor and the reaction forces would go through the ground I had to hold both the torque wrench and the pinion. So in essence the reaction force was also going through my body too. I was able to get it click at around 110Nm, with a setting of 125Nm I was not able to apply enough force.
So I just know that the breakaway is higher than let's say 120Nm.

After this torque difference has been overcome, the limited slip works like a diff again.
So it seems that the friction surfaces are still oke. Guidlines are a torque setting between 100 and 150 Nm.

Axial and Radial pinion flange runout:
I had to lightly sand the flange surface to remove small high spots. Then I measured a combined runout of about 0.0052'' - factory specs call for 0.004''
So, I call this good and let it be.

Axial runout of the axle was also difficult to measure due to rust high spots but I got a reading of 0.005'' on the driver side and 0.003'' on the passenger side.

Backlash on the axle was also measured. I measured at the wheel stud, that is at 2.5'' - the factory calls for measuring at the tire diameter, but one can convert to this situation too.
I measured on the driver side 0.61mm and on the passenger side 1mm, converted to the outside diameter this gives:
Driver Side: 0.14''
Passenger Side: 0.22''

Factory manual calls for 1/8, so 0.125''

This means that the driver side is oke, but the passenger side not. The passenger side is the side where I had a tire blow out on the highway and since then I have a vibration.
The splines on the axle look good, so my only guess for the increased backlash on one side is that the bearing is damaged and the axle shaft can move fore and aft and give a "false" reading.

Well, anyways, I am going to replace the bearings and seals.


Looking at the differential itself: The ring gear diameter is 9'' and there is a patent number on the casting: CA620899
This patent is available and I have it attached below. Pretty cool stuff.
Check out the gears and teeth. Look like brand new!

If you have any recommendations on how to tackle the bearing replacement on the drive axles, let me know!

Best regards,
Nicolas

I'm wondering why you removed the small floor covers? Just for cleaning?
To replace the wheel bearings: the shop manual is describing it well. You will need a press. If you have such equipment avalable, put the bearing the right way: the spring you can see at the seal is going towards the differential.

Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on May 10, 2020, 03:12:03 AM
I'm wondering why you removed the small floor covers? Just for cleaning?
To replace the wheel bearings: the shop manual is describing it well. You will need a press. If you have such equipment avalable, put the bearing the right way: the spring you can see at the seal is going towards the differential.

ok! Yes I read the manual multiple times! :-D
But I was seeking for the undocumented tips and trick to make life easier. Thanks for the hint about orientation. Anyone else having some tips?

Yeah, while cleaning the undercoating and repainting the underside of the car I noticed that the rear covers (in the trunk) were still perfect, but the one behind the rear seat and the one behind the driver seat were a bit brittle and loose. So, everything is nicely black now, only those covers not. Looks bad and it is an easy fix. Just need to clean, paint and seal them.
The ones on the front floor are also in bad shape but I need to replace the complete floor anyway, so that can wait till next winter comes.

Best regards,
Nicoals

When you do the front floor, there is no need to replace the covers as they are only there for the construction process, to let out excess liquids that are used in the finishing of the car, as metal cleaning fluids and paint and primer so the excess can drain out.   Then the covers are installed, just before the insulation and carpet gets installed.

Bruce. >:D

Hello Nicolas,

Five years and three days ago you replied to my post about the rear axle bearing replacement on my '67.  In my post then, I was determining whether I should buy a press.  I decided shortly after the post to buy a cheap press (Harbor Freight) which I purchased for $154.  I used the press to install the bearings and retainers after I cleaned up and painted the axle tube cover which is between the bearing/retainer and the axle flange.

There is another method you can try if you do not have access to a press.  I have used this method with transmissions.  You can "shrink" the shaft by cooling it in a freezer, and you can expand the bearing and retainer by heating them in an oven.  You cannot heat the bearing too much without destroying the seal, maybe 150 degrees F.  You may need to experiment on an old bearing of similar construction.

The '67 manual calls for the use of an arbor press for the removal and installation of the bearing/retainer.  Most arbor presses generate a force of three tons or less so the differential between a "shrunken" axle shaft and an "expanded" bearing may be just enough to allow the bearing/retainer to be installed on the shaft without a press.  You have to be set up to do this, and you need to act fast, and you only get one opportunity to do this method correctly.  The parts "normalize" very quickly at room temperature.  Good luck.

Respectfully submitted,

Christopher Winter

Hi Bruce

ok, interesting. I was wondering what those are used for because lifting to body seems impossible. Have not thought about letting liquid out!

Hi Christopher,
Well at my fathers house we have a simple press, I think its 6 ton. I extended the base to be able to press out the front A arm bushings. This press was also used on the rear  arms. But the drive shafts are a lot longer. I know about a few presses in my company, but they don't have the travel needed. Friday night I discovered yet another press, I think this one is up to a few hundred tons, it seems to have the travel needed.

Sorry, I did not remember your post but I am going to read it again.

Today, I was able to measure the backlash on the ring gear and the contact pattern of the gear.
The backlash is 0.0075'' -> according to my books about differentials a reading of about 0.008'' for new gears is good. So, after 50 years this differential is still slightly better than a new one!

Visualizing the contact pattern, I had to use the poor guys gear contact compound, which is bolt anti-seize. Worked pretty good, not a very clear picture but enough to make a decision. Check out the picture below.
It seems that the initial contact is closer to the toe and a little high on the side. But I read that with load applied the contact pattern would move towards the heel. Possibly down somewhat too. 

So, I am not going to mess with the limited slip. I just follow my usual restoration practice which is: paint it black, put it back! :-D

The difference in backlash measured a the axle end must have to be influenced by the bearings. At least this is my guess. Let's see what the measurements are with the "new" bearings installed.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hello Nicolas,

A press does not need much travel to remove/replace the axle bearings/retainers - maybe a couple of inches.  A press does need to have enough height to accommodate the length of the longest axle.  I had to elevate my Harbor freight press on wood blocks to get sufficient height to press on my bearings/retainers.

In the picture showing the dial gauge set up to measure backlash, I noticed that you have the pinion flange bolted to your holding fixture.  In this set-up there is probably a thousandth or two of pinion bearing side loading that may be affecting your readings and your tooth contact pattern.

A differential holding fixture should be bolted to the carrier (the casting into which all the differential components are installed) so that there is no unnecessary loading of the pinion or side bearings (see attached picture).  I am sure you can construct such a fixture.  Good luck.

Respectfully submitted,

Christopher Winter

Hi Christopher

Regarding press: yes, that is what I wanted to say. However, I still had to enlarge the base because the press is not mounted on a surface but the force flow goes through the bottom structure. Unfortunately this structure is exactly in the middle and below the vertical force axis.
The professional presses are much better, most have a "table" with some holes in it. That basically closes the force loop and a axle can have enough room below the "table".

Regarding gear pattern: ok, well I think I am not so concerned about backlash, but I think what you mentioned did have more impact on my gear pattern measurement. The unit is laying on the ground so there is some force on the pinion and it is oriented in a 90° angle to the normal position. Hence the gravitation pulls in a different direction than in the car.

If I have time I do the measurement again, but I already decided to not mess with it. The gear really looks brand new. So there is nothing I can improve up on.

Just clean it, paint it and but it back :-D

The axle shaft bearing however really do need some help. There is noticeable axial play in the bearings. Unfortunately the bearings I got are from HBC, some chinese manufacturer. I would have preferred bearings from skf or timken.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hello,

This post is about how I replaced the axle shaft bearings.
You need to create two tools out of scrap metal. The first one is the bearing pusher and the second tool the bearing installer. The shop manual calls for a press and to press on the axle shaft. However, there is rarely such a large press available (not the stroke of the press but the room to place the axle) and I think it dangerous to press at the of the shaft. Also the shop manual specifies an additional plate with a hole to hold the bearing outer ring, in case the bearing explodes from the pressure. The outlined method is not very safe, so I created a bearing pusher.

The first picture shows my rough drawing and dimensions for the tools. The top tool is not needed, only the middle and the last one. The next four pictures show how someone in my company made me this tool.

I drilled and tapped six holes on a circle larger than the cover plate but still toughing the rear of the axle flange. Then I used long screws M8x80 and aluminum pieces between screw end and axle flange. Then I used some scrap pieces to support also the inside ring of the bearing. Otherwise the cover place would just press on the outside ring of the bearing. And then all I had to to was tighten every screw in a circular pattern - this took about 10min and the bearings were out.
The first was I removed without splitting the retainer ring. The second one I did split the ring. But it made no difference, would have been fine also leaving the ring in place. I did however heat up the ring and bearings slightly just to reduce some clamping load.

Installing the bearing needs a place with a slightly larger hole diameter than the bearing. And you can either use the base of the press or the puller plate just used to give a support for the axle flange.
Then I used some 1000 grid sandpaper and some grease to make the surface smooth. Aligning the bearing to be straight on the axle was very difficult because of the long shaft of the axle. And there is no large chamfer to self align the bearing. Then you need to press the bearing until you measure from the rear of the bearing to the outside of the axle flange: 3 - 3/64. Check out the second last picture. The measurement is actually between 3-2/16 and 3-3/16. So I think there must be an error in the shop manual, because is no way to depress to bearing further on the shaft!

In the end I got the bearings replace, they have less play. I hope I got them straight on the axle, otherwise my vibration problem will be worse than before!

Best regards,
Nicolas

P.S: Sorry about the 90 degree rotated preview pictures, when you click on it the orientation is correct.

It's nice to have the possibility to use tools from such a nice shop!

That is a different way of removal.

As for the bearing collar, I find the simplest way to remove them is to hold the back of the collar over an anvil, and belt the collar with a Cold Chisel to expand it.   Takes a couple of sharp strikes of the Cold Chisel, and the collar will simply slip straight off.

Bruce. >:D

Hi Roger, yes and free of charge too!  8)
Hi Bruce, ok, yes, this method is outlined in the shop manual. But I don't have a chisel and I did not understand why it should slip of. But thinking about it, the reason that it expands a bit might be due to the chisel forcing material inward, to only way it can go is outward, so it has to expand to make room. Just drilling holes and split it that way, like I did, does not expand the ring. okay understood now.

This post is about the backing plate. When you study the first picture you can see that the brake shoes have cut a quite deep groove into the sliding surface. Its about 1mm (0.04'') deep and this groove has the effect that the brake shoes are restrained to move any further outwards except the hydraulic force increases or the brake pad wears down. It can also give a sudden braking experience because it takes a bit of force to move the shoes out of the groove.
Anyways, those grooves had to go.

So, since I am not going to my parents (due to obvious reasons in this current state of the world), I have no access to a welder. But I got lucky, again in my company, someone was able to fill the grooves with a welder.
Check out the pictures below. Then the next problem arose, because I wanted to file down the welds by hand but realized that the six surfaces would never be level and straight. So I asked my boss, who has a milling machine at home, if he could mill down those surfaces. He did, and you can see the final product below. I measured from the underside to the topside of a good surface a distance of about 14mm. This is the distance now that all the surfaces have.

If you look at picture two you see some dimples within the surface. Maybe to lower the contact area and thus the friction?
Does anyone know what they are good for?
I did not replicate those dimples. I do not recall seeing them on the front brakes.

I forgot to order enough axle housing gaskets, but this is actually good, because those replacement gaskets are so thin that I had troubles getting those to seal correctly. Now I created my own gaskets out of gasket paper, the new gaskets are about three times as thick. You need four of those gaskets for a complete axle. The gasket papers are available in different thicknesses.

The last two pictures show the, still original, star wheels. As you can see, some teeth are completely missing. There are no correct star wheel replacements for this type of brake. I replaced them in the front but they are not the correct diameter or length. Now, however, I just used an angled file and cut new grooves into the star wheel. It needs those grooves such that the paddle can turn it and adjust the setting when you drive backwards and brake at the same time. As you can see in the last picture - no need to throw those away. If it would have been worse, I would have welded some material on and recut the grooves that way. There just need to be grooves, no exact amount necessary.

More posts coming soon!

Best regards,
Nicolas 

On to the axle:

I used some wire wheels, a lot of time and finally cleaned the axle to be ready for paint. I then used my favorite POR15. 
Then came the task of removing the pinion nut and seal. Someone was in here before because where was a European style "simmerring" (made by Freudenberg) installed.
I had to create a special holding tool to keep the pinion from turning while trying to loosed the nut. I used quite a lot of heat and WD40 and was finally able to remove the nut without too much trouble. The flange basically just slid off, wasn't even pressed on tight. Strange...

Anyway, back to the seal. At the time this seal probably seemed to be a good idea, because the rubber is replaceable and they use a 5mm thick aluminum ring to give support. Well this ring did not want to come out. So I had to carefully drill a hole and split it. I finally was able to remove the ring but some debris found its way into the bearing below.

The pinion bearing has some markings on it: HM89448. Google shows that this bearing is available from Timken. Very good, because those differentials  are "not rebuildable"  as noted in the shop manual.
The new seal I install is the "regular" type, this one is from SKF 18922. Fits perfectly.

Regarding copper washers (picture nr. 3): You need to use copper washers because the studs are in the oil, which means that oil can find its way up through the threads and then exit either between the washer and the housing or between the washer and the nut. The path through the nut is not possible because you torque the nut and lock the threads. So I was trying to locate some copper washer. They are made out of gold or something similar. I called 5 companies and no one had those in stock. The only way would have been to buy 100 pieces for about 70$. Way to much. So I asked around in my company, guess what, the mechanic of the experimental machine shop had special washers with an integrated seal "laying" around in the perfect size of M10. Which fits just right a 3/8''. He had just enough for me (I needed 14). In the end, I hope that those special washers will keep the oil in the housing for years to come! :-)

Best regards,
Nicolas

Nicholas,

Never seen dimples on any backing plate wearing spots.

With the extreme damage that was caused to the star wheel, I would be thinking that someone had placed the dimples there to try and raise the worn surfaces, and with all that wear, those brakes have done a LOT of work.

Nice job on the re-filing and shaping of the teeth, and the restoration of the tabs.

Bruce. >:D

On my ex-1956 Sedan de Ville, the backing plates has similar grooves. We used also to weld them and removed the excess weld with an hand tool. You did the luxury variant!
Why are you replacing the bearing at the rear axle? Do you have the impression that it was damaged?

Hi Bruce,
ok, strange. Maybe someone in the past tried to repair something? Maybe putting JBweld on it?
Thanks for your kind words.

Hi Roger, no I am leaving everything in place. I just noted the markings and part numbers. Maybe helps someone else, because the manual is no help at all. They just say its not rebuildable.

Continuing on the axle:
While cleaning the inside of the diff the front pinion bearing actually "dropped" out, I did not plan on removing it but without the flange there is basically nothing to hold the bearing in place. Turned out to be a good thing because I was able to clean between the bearings too, which is otherwise impossible to get to.
You can see the collapsible spacer that sits in front of the bearing. My axle rebuild book says to not reuse those - well I have no choice. But its nice to see this here, which means that the bearings are designed just like any other diff and it should be possible to find new bearings for it.

After cleaning it, it installed the front seal with some permatex around the outside ring. Then I positioned the diff into the axle housing. I installed the gasket also with permatex on both sides (just a thin strip). I then snugged the nuts down, but did not yet torque them to allow the sealant to set. I used some copper paste on the splines, washer and pinion nut. I then mounted my holding tool and torqued the pinion nut to 200Nm. Takes quite a lot of force. I then checked the preload, but was again unable to measure this. I think its now somewhere around 15 inch pounds. But I guess this is mostly due to the new seals on the pinion and the two axle bearings.

After installing the axles and all the rest of the parts on the axle I was able to use three jacks to maneuver the axle into position. With the help of three jacks it can be done by one person. First task is to mount the shock absorber mounts, then the spring insulation and then the spring itself. After this it is just a procedure of slowly rising the axle to align the spring in the top mount and then continuing rising the axle until the bolts of the suspension arms can be slipped in. Actually the shock absorber will mount first and give a good insurance to keep the axle from jumping out if something goes wrong compressing the springs. Be careful, those springs are like a bomb!

Today, I will work on completing the install and mounting all brackets, brake, driveshaft etc..

Best regards,
Nicolas

Over torque or under torque at the pinion is not desirable. Usually, the position of the nut is marked before removing it. Installing the nut at the same position once the seal is replaced is giving good results. It's what was done on my own rear axles. I hope that you did not torque the nut too much!

Nicholas,

With regard to the collapsible spacer, I have had to re-use them at times, and what I do is to get a piece of shim steel, around .010 thick, and cut it out so that the ID fits the spaft, and the OD does not interfere with any part of the bearing.

Then, it is a simple matter of reinstalling the original Crush Sleeve, bearings and flange, and then tighten up everything (the nut) to the correct tension, as per factory specs.   Plus, before assembling the flange, I put some Loctite sealant on the spline so that there can be no oil leaking out sad spline.

The only way to obtain the correct tension is with the axles out, and with a gauge, measure the pressure.

The tool I made is a piece of wood, with a groove (to stop the piece of string falling off) and a piece of string to wrap around it, and a spring gauge to measure the pull, and then divided the number to get Foot Lbs, or Inch Pounds.

I never go by Torque Wrench specs unless I am using a Solid Spacer, as in a drag racing diff.

Bruce. >:D

Hi Roger and Bruce

I did mark the flange relative to the shaft and I measured how deep the nut was on the threads. I measured about 3.6mm.
I don't have a "pointer" torque wrench only the common click type. But Bruce, your idea with a scale is perfect. I need to keep this in mind for future projects.

I measured the distance now again, its roughly 3.7mm. It took slightly more than 200Nm to get it to this setting.

Maybe one day I go through the controlled differential again and use your trick with the shim on the crush sleeve. From an engineering standpoint what you want is preload between the bearings. So, the need to replace the crush sleeves goes away when you use a proper amount of shim and torque wrench. There is a point where you cannot crush the sleeve anymore to give some preload and "spring" action but I guess with one shim one should get away with it.
Just a pity you mentioned this not earlier as I could have made such a shim!  ;D 8)

I am more concerned about the backlash, it is way more than the recommend 1/8''. Could this be a consequence of reusing the crush sleeve? With my measurements of the contact area and the larger than recommended backlash I try to think why this is the case. Looking at this situation it seems to me that I would need to move the pinion slightly more rearward.
What are your assessments of the situation? Has anyone a recommendation on what to do next?

On to the update on progress:
I installed the axle completely, all screws are just hand tight. They will be torqued once on the ground. I fabricated a hand brake cable holding strap, because mine was missing. Fits quite well and should solve the pounding noise of the handbrake cable when it is cahted between the floor and the suspension arm.

I also assembled the brakes, but it took me almost an hour to mount the handbrake cable. Do your self a favor and attach the handbrake cable with the braking back plate removed. You don't have enough room between the suspension arm and I made the situation worse by creating special rubber seals. Anyway, I got it done. Ready to bleed the brakes tomorrow.

I also got my insurance activated again even picked up my license plates.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Why don't you ask before you do something you are not sure?
My suggestion was to mark the nut in relation to the shaft and torque up to that point, period, no matter of the torque at the nut. Now you may have the pinion 0.1 mm towards the front, which is increasing the backlash in consequence. What I would do: loose the nut again a bit until you have the 3.6mm.

Quote from: DeVille68 on May 22, 2020, 12:35:54 PM
........Maybe one day I go through the controlled differential again and use your trick with the shim on the crush sleeve. From an engineering standpoint what you want is preload between the bearings. So, the need to replace the crush sleeves goes away when you use a proper amount of shim and torque wrench. There is a point where you cannot crush the sleeve anymore to give some preload and "spring" action but I guess with one shim one should get away with it.
Just a pity you mentioned this not earlier as I could have made such a shim!  ;D 8)

I am more concerned about the backlash, it is way more than the recommend 1/8''. Could this be a consequence of reusing the crush sleeve? With my measurements of the contact area and the larger than recommended backlash I try to think why this is the case. Looking at this situation it seems to me that I would need to move the pinion slightly more rearward.
What are your assessments of the situation? Has anyone a recommendation on what to do next?   Best regards,  Nicolas   

Nicholas,

The only way to adjust the pinion rearward is to install a shim between the rear pinion bearing inner and the pinion gear itself.   This moves the bearing forward on the shaft.   With other diffs, like the Ford 8 and 9", there is a shim that moves the whole pinion bearing mount to where it is required.

As for the crush spacer, that can be crushed a really long way (shorter) simply by turning more and more on the pinion nut.   You would be surprised just how much a press can squash a tube when sufficient pressure is supplied. ;)

One of the reasons I only use a .010" shim is simply to squash it a bit more, than a lot more.

When initially beginning the initial crush of a new spacer, I find that it needs a lot of pressure on the wrench to get it to begin the squash, but then it is easier.

I don't use a torque wrench to do this part, as torque wrenches were never designed to perform such tasks.   I use a breaker bar with socket, and to make it easier on me, I place a length of tubing over the end to increase its' length.

The tool pictures is for holding the pinion "flange" on a Universal to pinion diff, and I have another one with a circular piece welded to the handle, which bolts to the flange, and that one has a hole in the centre to allow access to the socket.

The longer the handles, the less effort required.

Bruce. >:D

PS.   I apologise for not reading your mind.   Maybe I was asleep?

Hi Bruce

ok, I guess I would have to remove the complete differential gears (ring gear and pinion) to slide a shim between pinion head and first head bearing. Shimming the crushsleeve only preloads the two bearings on the pinion shaft but does not change backlash or gear pattern.
Indeed, I measured about the same backlash as before. There is slightly more torque required to turn the pinion, I am assuming due to new seals. The runout of pinion flange and axles also stayed the same.
So in summary I guess I am good to go. I will measure the backlash again with the tire mounted, the larger diameter makes for an easier measurement.

Regarding gears and splines: this is what I have counted:
Number of pinion splines = 16
Number of ring gear splines = 47
Number of axle splines = 26

Axle Ratio: 47/16 = 2.9375


Regarding the dimples on the brakes. I found a picture in my documents from a guy here on the forum. He posted his rear brakes and I saved the picture. Looking at the picture you can see the same kind of dimples. And also the same kind of grooves due to wear. I wonder what those dimples are good for?

Best regards,
Nicolas

To keep some lubricant?

Dimples are usually placed in a piece of metal to simply try and build-up the surrounding metal, as in if the centre punch is pushed in, with a solid anvil at the back, then metal will rise up around it, as it cannot get deeper.   Plus, it is done when people haven't got a replacement part, or don't want to buy one, or is selling the car/item.

I have seen many attempts at tightening bearings in holes where they were spinning on the outside, and the cup gets tightened a bit, but it is only a stop-gap.

A new seal does create a bit of resistance, but there shouldn't be any reason to remove the crown wheel to allow the pinion to spin freely.   The tension is normally done before the crown wheel is installed.

Bruce. >:D

Hi guys,

First test drive was a success! Brakes are great, suspension and ride comfort is amazing. What a difference replacing those bushings makes! wow. Gas gauge works nice. Limited slip seems to work, I tested it on a gravel road.

However, work is not over. I have a huge exhaust leak. The vibration around 60 is still somewhat there. Not sure what the problem is. Need to investigate further. The propeller shaft still needs to be replaced. I hear clicking of the u-joints. My new shaft is currently in Germany, due to the virus I can't go and get it.
I also have some tuning issues with the carburetor. Something is not right with the choke.
The radio was working fine, but now its dead?! Also the climate control does not work anymore. Must have developed some vacuum leak somewhere.

Well I guess the work does never stop!  ;)

Below a picture from the mountain region where I life. Behind the car in the valley you can see the end of a glacier. Those mountains can actually be climbed, but there are obviously no roads up there.  ;D

Best regards,
Nicolas

Beautiful area Nicholas,
As well as your car.  Congratulations on getting it out and taking it for a drive. Looks like you had some good weather as the top is down.
Keep plugging away and you will have a great car you can take anywhere.

Very nice,

Rick

Quote from: DeVille68 on May 21, 2020, 12:23:29 PM

If you look at picture two you see some dimples within the surface. Maybe to lower the contact area and thus the friction?

Nicholas, I had a look at the pictures done in the US during the refreshment of my '72 de Ville. The backing plates have the same dimples. I don't know the reason. As the car had only 20'000 miles at that time, I'm sure it was done at the factory.

Ah ha...... equidistantly spaced, which would suggest that their purpose is to allow lubrication to remain in the depressions as against a flat piece which would not retain said lubrication after a short time, and "fall" away.   Plus, seeing as lubrication was a part of brake servicing, it would be renewed at normal intervals as per the Shop Manual.

Bruce. >:D

Hello,

Very interesting. Thanks for checking too! This hypothesis of keeping grease in place makes sense.
Well, my backing plate was welded with pure nickel and should be hard or at least as hard as the steel backing plate. Well, if the brake pads create new grooves, I can weld those again. No big deal.

Rick, thanks for the compliments!

So, now that the car is running I was finally able to fix some issues with the quadrajet. I noticed that the acceleration pump was not working right. After a few shots it seemed dry. The reason was that the lever would not allow the plunger to come up enough to reliably fill the reservoir below. I fixed this by bending the lever. I must have bent it wrong a few years ago.

Then I had an issue with the choke flap, it would somewhat bind. The reason was that I made a wrong bend into the choke flap lever, it would hit the casting and bind up.

With my O2 meter I can analyze the driving situations and noticed that the off-idle transition was not satisfactory. This is due to the changes made to my engine, raised compression, different camshaft. I made idle bypass air modifications last summer and this helped to bring the idle speed down and the mixture correct. But I did not change the idle fuel. Well, now the off-idle was too lean.
The only way to fix this is to remove the idle tubes. They were very very tight, but I got them out in the end by heat, and driving them down, drilling the top part and trying different drywall screws.
Unfortunately, I damaged one of the tubes. But not a big deal, because I did want to get rid of that pressed in tube anyway. So my plan is to make the tubes with a thread a the top. This way I can just unscrew them and redrill for a different fuel flow.
The first attempt was not successful, because I tried to press the brass tube I made into a threaded aluminum part I made.  However, the aluminum was not able to hold the turning force by a screw driver. So now I need to buy proper brass material ( 5mm diameter, 0.2'') and make the idle tubes out of one piece instead of the three part piece like original.

The original metering hole is 0.035'' but I am going to enlarge it to 0.040''.

Best regards,
Nicolas

That's too bad that the idle tubes got messed up.  I sometimes mess up the original idle tubes when I take them out the first time, but usually they are still salvageable.  After I have had them out once, I don't usually have problems removing them after that.

There are other ways to increase idle fuel if needed.  You can increase the size of the down channel restriction or you can reduce the size of the idle bleed.

Hi Kurt

Yeah, first time doing this..
Idle channel restriction has been enlarged already. Also idle mixture screw hole. And the idle "venturi"
Idle mixture screws are too far out anyways.
If I am not successful, it was at least an interesting experiment. :-)

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hello followers,

here is a success story. First attempt failed with using pressed in threads.
I decided to make the tubes out of brass on the lathe in the experimental work shop of my company. But the second attempt  failed too because I was not familiar with the machine and it was not set up correctly making it very hard to machine a precise part.
With the third attempt I finally succeeded in creating the custom idle tubes I needed.
I made a idle tube out of 6mm diameter brass rod, cut the top 8mm back to tap a #10-24 thread on it. Then the next 1cm was a diameter of about 3.6mm and then to the top about 3mm. I drilled a 1.5mm hole from the top about 25mm deep. And then from the other side a 1.5mm hole about 3mm deep. The overall length is 38mm.
This made sure that the hole was straight because drilling such small holes that long of a distance is always a problem. You will face the problem that the hole will not be straight.
So I relocated the "calibrated hole" from the tip to about 4mm into the tube. Then I used a 1mm drill (thats about 0.040'') to create the new larger idle tube restriction. Originally a 0.035'' hole was drilled.
I notched the top of the idle tube to be able to use a Phillips screw driver. Cleaned everything up and installed the Quadrajet again.

--> Wow, what a difference in driving this modification makes!  8) No stumbling from a stop with little gas, it just goes. Very very nice. The car now drives as I have dreamed about two years ago.

Without a O2 sensor these kind of modifications would have been very difficult to make, because it is hard to judge the combustion condition from the driver seat. Also WOT performance was not very good, I noticed that the mixture was about 10.5 air fuel ratio.  Way too rich. Probably caused by the various modifications, bending the hanger I now have a WOT mixture of about 13.0. And it really goes. pretty cool.

As you can tell I am really excited. The suspension is nice and soft, gas tank shows correct amount of fuel, brakes are fantastic (straight and strong), rear end is sealed, as is the transmission output shaft. Performance is way better than before. Even the limited slip works and leaves two black strips on the ground.... 8) ;D  (I only tried this once for about 2m)

A few pictures below.

Before making the idle tube with the thread on it I turned to google to see if this is a idea someone else had. Turns out that you can buy idle tubes with a thread on them: https://allcarbs.com/product/threaded-idle-tube-kit/ (https://allcarbs.com/product/threaded-idle-tube-kit/) The kit costs 45$ but only the tubes is about 10$.
Finding those showed me that my idea would work out - with it did!
The tubes from allcarbs use fine thread (juding from the pictures), which I think I wrong because we are dealing with aluminum and brass. Hence you need as much material as possible to make a strong edge of the thread.
Exactly the same conditions made a bad reputation of the early Northstar, for example the 93 Allante used fine thread head bolts. There is a kit available which replaces those with a larger side coarse thread head stud.

Best regards,
Nicolas

P.S Now what is left to do: fix the radio, fix the heater / air conditioning, replace the drive shaft, fix the exhaust leak, replace the muffler, change out the ignition for my new unit, restore the power seat, restore the autronic eye, replace and fix rust on the driver side floor pan, restore and recreate the interior panels, and some smaller issues!  ;)

Very cool!  Glad you got this sorted.

Hello,
here is an update about my replacement driveshaft. This post was also posted here:
http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=161346 (http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=161346)

So good and bad news. I was at this special shop (truck rebuilder) that also makes custom driveshafts. We made sure that driveshaft tube was straight and then we run an initial calibration. Check out the first three pictures below.
Then we ran an initial measurement at 1000 rpm which (when I calculated correctly) is about 30 mph. The machine said to remove 9gr at the rear and 19gr at the front. So we decided to remove all the original weights and over. Then the machine said to add 14 gr at the rear and 11 at the front. We added 15gr and 10 gr, and after a verification run the machine showed to add 3gr at the rear and 2 at the front. So we called it a day.

We experienced one strange phenomena though. As few minutes in the run we heard some strange contact noise coming from the front third of the tube. So we lubed the ball and greased the cv joints. We noticed that the sound disappeared when introducing a deflection of the driveshaft. It was installed in the machine totally straight, which should not happen in the car because then the cv joints are not lubed enough and can get damaged. So I suspected that a cv joint had a problem. And indeed after removing the shaft we noticed that one of the front cv joints made these contact noises. We greased it some more and the noise disappeared. Very strange! I hope this sound does not return.



So far so good. So, I put the car up on my ramps and removed the old original driveshaft and but it side by side. Check out picture one.
Well, what do you see? Nothing at first, but I noticed that the slip yoke looked strange, that is kind of small.

And indeed when measured with my caliper I got about 1.850'' O.D. on the original yoke but only about 1.690'' O.D. on the replacement yoke!  :o :o
(picture two and three).

Strangely all other dimensions checked out to be exact. Spline count is 31 +1 = 32 (+1 means the missing spline for the air to escape to the end of the yoke). The I.D. is also correct at about 1.4''.
Length and cv joint size is all the same. Total length of the driveshaft is also correct.
Last two pictures show the double cv joints, the replacement shaft looks a bit different but the dimensions are the same.

So, now I tried to figure out what went wrong here.
From my master parts catalog I can find the part number for the front yoke, its 7812171 and is used from 68 through 73, below it is used on 74 exc. Eld. On the web I found that this very number is also used from 76 through 79. So first, I thought I miss-ordered and made a typo like 78 or 86. But that was clearly not the case.
When searching online for a slip yoke for a TH400 all the results give the larger yoke style.
I read somewhere that the small yoke was used up to year 65.
Maybe the rebuilder took the wrong slip yoke to put this driveshaft together?

So, now I kind of not know what to do next. Clearly this driveshaft is just junk now. (costed me with shipping and labor about 1000$!! )

Any advice on where this yoke was used would be highly appreciated.

Best regards,
Nicolas

I have never seen such a difference in 31 Spline slip yokes.

BUT, I have now.

Just went downstairs and measured two slip joints that I have, one a single joint and the other a Double Cardan Joint, and I couldn't believe my eyes when I read the vernier.   Two different sizes, yet they still accept the 31 spline shaft.

The smaller one came from a "normal TH400" that we got in Australia, and the larger one from a '74ish Cadillac TH400 that I imported with the Transmission..

Bruce. >:D

PS.   I am a believer now that things that should be the same, aren't.

You can use the front CV joint from your original shaft on the "new" shaft. I still don't understand why your ordered another shaft. Unless the original part is destroyed, it's much logical and economical to repair what you have.

Hi Bruce,

Well, yeah, I didn't even think that this would be a problem. If you type th400 slip yoke into google you get 90% of the results with the 1.8'' diameter yoke... well learned something new now.

Hi Roger,
Well, I was told that it would be too complicated and you would need to have special tools to separate and assemble the ball joint in between the double cv joints. Looking at it now, it would probably have been easier to do it my self.

Now I wonder what to do with the "new" driveshaft. Is it any good any other vehicle? That means, could I sell it? I doubt that any Cadillac used to smaller yoke.

If someone could point me to a source that sells the correct ball joints that would be helpful.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Here is something else I did in the last few days - I borrowed a heat gun from my company and measured the exhaust runners at idle. As you can see by the pictures attached, the hottest point is about 330°C  (625°F) at the end of the passenger side exhaust and in the middle of the driverside exhaust. This has to do with the design of the two pieces. All cylinder temps are about in the same region of 240°C (465°F). So this means that all are firing about the same. There was no unexpected hot spot on the engine.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hello

An update regarding the wrong slip yoke:
I calculated, with help from my co-workers, if a slip sleeve would be feasible. It turns out, that a sleeve would indeed work to give the correct diameter for the bearing and seal. However, we then calculated the twist angle due to the engine torque and ended up with only about safety factor of 1. With the original thicker slip yoke we calculated a safety factor of about 1.6. What this means is that the material can only handle a certain amount of twist before it eventually breaks. A safety factor of 1.6 basically means it never breaks. A safety factor of only 1 is critical.
So, you can see the smaller slip yoke must have been used with a less powerful engine, maybe the 429 version.

I was also working on the ground straps. Had to create my own strap for the passenger side, because the ones they sell are either too long or too short. I had to buy so much material that I can make some for you if you want to. Let me know.

I was also working on the convertible boot. Replaced the worn out snap clips with new ones. Pretty simple if you have the correct tool. I borrowed it from the upholstery guy.

Now I need to replace the old and brittle foam. Does anyone know what color it supposed to be? Is this yellow color correct? The authenticity manual does not mention any foam or color.
Any help appreciated.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hello

Here are a couple of small updates:

A) Engine ground strap: I had to create my own ground strap because there is no correct strap for 68. There is one available for 65 but it is a bit short. I bought mesh copper and the packard 59 crimps. Unfortunately the mesh is not exactly like original, the one I bought is a bit to fine grade. One is 12'' the other about 10''. Turned out good though.

B) Exchanged the trunk emblem with a new one from OPGI. I also bought the wheels cover emblems. The trunk emblem is of better quality than the wheel cover emblems. Color seems to be better on the trunk one. Problem with the trunk emblem is that it is not made to remove and attach a couple of times. It just a stud with a nut without thread on the stud. However, I did manage to mount the lock firmly again.

C) I adjusted the tension of the garter spring of the slip yoke seal on the transmission extension housing. Oil was leaking out just a little bit. So I removed the garter spring, opened it up and cut out a piece of about 3mm (about 1/8''). Reattach the spring and the leak is gone! Yeah  8)

D) Exchanged the turn signal and light housing along with new led. I bought switchback led from ali express. They are white and blink amber. This is because of the law in Switzerland. You are not allowed to have amber day lights. Someone cut up the original housing and made a wiring mess. So, about 5 years ago I found two very nice housings on ebay for about 40$. I had to repair the wiring. But was easy to fix. Now I have nice bright amber turn signals. Only problem is that the normal white light is much to cold, I guess its about 6000k. The ali express listing did not mention this cold color. Well, I guess I need to find another led with a warmer white light, with the current led it looks kind of strange, especially with the head lights on.

Regarding ground strap: Let me know if you need a piece or two for 68. I had to buy a lot of supply just for one piece.

Best regards,
Nicolas

here are the rest of the pictures.

I also created two custom wirings to connect the outside amber day ligths to work as blinker, because amber light is not allowed. Previously, someone cut up the harness and made a mess. I reconnected everything as original and now just plug in my adapter harness. If someone wants to go back later, he can just remove my adapter.

Luckily, I bought a large supply of Packard 56 and 59 crimps and terminals.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Nice ground straps! They are used for many years; my '56 & 57 cars have one at the end of each cylinder head. Maybe shorter than for 1968, but very similar material.
At first I did not understood that carter spring. Then, with the pictures all was clear; it's a Gardner spring!
About amber lights: my DTS has amber day lights; they are also the directional lamps. Parking lamps are white.

Its called a garter spring.

Hi Kurt and Roger

Thanks, yeah I was too confused. Once I found a nice chart with all the spring types, but can't find it anymore. Maybe the word Roger refers to is from another language?

So, if I "label" these lamps as running / day lamps instead of parking lamps its oke for the motor department?

Best regards,
Nicolas

Well, Kurt is right: it's a garter spring. However, Gardner is a company making springs...
About the lamps I only can say what I have on my recent car; you know that some cantons are more difficult than others...If I'm right (my memory is no more what it used to be). some Mustangs have also amber day lamps. You may ask the dealer Senn as he is importing "grey" cars; he sold me that DTS.

These cars have Park Lights, Indicator Lights, and Head Lights, High and Low, and Tail Lights and Brake Lights.  Plus, in our cases, Cornering Lights

These cars don't have daytime running lights, like modern cars, which are a totally kettle of fish.

Bruce. >:D

Bruce, in Switzerland, cars must have day running lamps (or the headlamps on) when driving. Cars older than 1970 are exempted. If Nicolas want to install them, it's his choice. I should have the headlamps on while driving my car 1972 de Ville, but I don't (I may have to pay a fine if...). I will probably install one day led lamps behind the grille.

Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on October 22, 2020, 02:58:34 AM
These cars have Park Lights, Indicator Lights, and Head Lights, High and Low, and Tail Lights and Brake Lights.  Plus, in our cases, Cornering Lights

These cars don't have daytime running lights, like modern cars, which are a totally kettle of fish.

Bruce. >:D

Yes, Bruce you are right. However, I use the parking lights as daytime running lights. I just pull the headlight knob to the first step, this way the two parking lights are one but not the headlights.

Best regards,
Nicolas

G'day Nicholas,

I would be running the Head Lights on Low Beam if you have to have Running Lights on during the day, as the Park Lights are not bright enough for daytime use.

Bruce. >:D

Plans for this past weekend were changed by the pandemic, instead of meeting people I was working alone in my garage. Removed the seat and basically the complete interior. More pictures than words this time.
As you can see I have a pretty bad rust problem underneath the driver floor / foot area. The original seam sealer is very dry and disintegrated by it self. I have four pretty badly corroded electrical connections. Some look like original splits but one is definitely not correct. Some id*** installed a yellow wire by just wrapping the cooper together. This was luckily wrapped in electrical tape, but still, who does this? Well, I am going to fix these sections.

There is a floor duct for the heater / ac system. There are carpet hold downs that keep the carpet from blocking those outlets. I think my carpet was not installed correctly because there was never any air able to reach the back side of the seat. Now I know why... (picture 7772, on the left side you can see the two metal pieces where the carpet needs to slip under.

On to the seat: I removed the side panels and painted them in my mixed dark green. Turned out great. Not so great is that I discovered that I have the wrong six way power seat switch. Does anyone has a picture of a correct switch for 68? (or can sell me one?)
Seat track restoration is next, the transmission is already done. There is nothing to it, just open it up, clean it, grease it, put it back together.

A lot of pictures below.

Best regards,
Nicoals

more pictures

There are a lot of people who are doing such "repairs" at the wiring. They should maybe go directly on the electrical chair just to punish them for so much incompetence!
I'm glad I have a coupe and not a convertible: this body style has by definition much more rust problems than closed bodies.
Did you find some papers under the seat? Or under the carpet, like I did?

Lovely shot of your fingerprints.

I would suggest removing that picture, and replacing it with one that isn't so detailed as to encourage an individual with devious thoughts to go out and commit crimes, using a copy of those.

Bruce. >:D

PS.   And yes, some people should be hung, drawn and quartered for performing such horrible repairs.

Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on November 02, 2020, 06:21:34 PM
Lovely shot of your fingerprints.

I would suggest removing that picture, and replacing it with one that isn't so detailed as to encourage an individual with devious thoughts to go out and commit crimes, using a copy of those.

But Bruce, that can never happen in Switzerland!

Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on November 02, 2020, 06:21:34 PM
Lovely shot of your fingerprints.

I would suggest removing that picture, and replacing it with one that isn't so detailed as to encourage an individual with devious thoughts to go out and commit crimes, using a copy of those.

Bruce. >:D

PS.   And yes, some people should be hung, drawn and quartered for performing such horrible repairs.

Oh, gosh, never would have thought about that, but you are probably right! :-D
:-\
The grease and dirt on my hand made a nice contrast media  ;D

Regarding the power seat switch, according to my master parts catalog the correct switch is:

66-72 Exc. 69733 (Elec.-6-way) 9711651 5.80 SWITCH, in LH seat bottom side panel 1

Number 9711651  was also used through:  60-61, 62, 63-64, 66-72, 73-74
--> So, from 60 to 74 without the year 65
(also possibly longer, but my book stops at 74)

The spacing of the controls is correct, but the mounting holes not. Original my panel calls for a distance of 3-3/4'' between the mounting holes.
The switch that was installed measured 4-1/4'' between the mounting holes.
They were able to mount the switch, but it does not fit right into the panel.

I would like to buy a correct switch. Does anyone has a picture of a correct one?

There are several listings on ebay, but I am having a hard time to judge which one would be correct.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/70-Cadillac-6-Way-Power-Bench-Seat-Switch-with-Wire-Harness-Connector/402524591445?hash=item5db855d555:g:d3MAAOSwkdpfnVJ6 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/70-Cadillac-6-Way-Power-Bench-Seat-Switch-with-Wire-Harness-Connector/402524591445?hash=item5db855d555:g:d3MAAOSwkdpfnVJ6)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/69-76-CADILLAC-BUICK-OLDS-PONTIAC-CHEVY-6-WAY-POWER-BENCH-SEAT-SWITCH-CONTROL/124249932958?hash=item1ceddf849e:g:bGIAAOSwHlVfA4YN (https://www.ebay.com/itm/69-76-CADILLAC-BUICK-OLDS-PONTIAC-CHEVY-6-WAY-POWER-BENCH-SEAT-SWITCH-CONTROL/124249932958?hash=item1ceddf849e:g:bGIAAOSwHlVfA4YN)

Thanks for your help
Best regards,
Nicolas

The first one is most probably incorrect: from the shape, it's installed ON the molding, not from behind.

68 Deville Conv. Power seat switch.
Ignore the nasty interior condition.

Hi Tracy

Thanks for that picture! It seems to be the switch I was expecting to see. The countersunk hole in the panel need to fit inside the countersunk hole of the switch in order for the knobs to line up nicely.

Roger, unfortunately, I did not find any build sheet. I guess the id*** before me threw those away...

It really is not funny - I had and have to go through everything the previous mechanics did and redo and correct their work.  :-\
I do make mistakes too, but in the end it is usually oke.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hello

Some updates.
A) I damaged the fuel sending unit while trying to find another fuel leak that developed. Well I guess it was just the old rubber hose that I installed because I did not have time to buy a new one. Will replace those now. Unfortunately I do need to replace the ohm sending unit, which was still original but was not working to my satisfaction although I cleaned it inside and checked the ohm readings. It kept bouncing around and not showing full when the tank was really overfull.
Well anyways, I used a potentiometer to simulate the sending unit, this way I could make absolutely sure that the fuel gauge in the instrument panel was working right. Check out the pictures below, I show the gauge and then the ohm reading of the potentiometer. Its very accurate actually, I was kind of surprised, you could basically see every ohm difference in a change in needle position.

B) I fixed all the wiring issues. Re-soldered the crimped (and now badly corroded connections) connections. I protected the interior. I am about ready to cut the floor! :-)

C) Started restoring the seat mechanism. Just cleaned all the mechanism and gears. Threw them into my ultra sonic cleaner, dried them, put in bearing grease and put em back together.

Best regards,
Nicolas

more pictures

You will be busy this winter!

Hello

Just a small update regarding the floor. I did cut out most of the rust, I left the area around the drain hole in there because the replacement panel has some issues that I need to work out.
As you can see below the structures in the original metal are pretty deep I am guessing about an 1/4''. However on the replacement panel the dept is only 1/8'' at most. The good thing is that the structure are all there and at the correct location. The sheet metal thickness is correct, just like factory.
So I now need to find a way to make those structures deeper, because otherwise I will have troubles fitting the replacement metal and lining it up for welding will be difficult too.

You can see in the fotos that the underlying brace is still in perfect condition, which tells me that the rust issue really came from the top. When I got the car all seals were brittle and the first thing I did was replacing all the seals. The passenger side floor pan looks good, so I might assume that there are no more rust problems on this car.
Don't throw away the little tap that is welded on the underside of the floor, it holds the speedometer cable!

Has anyone an idea on how to make those structures deeper without a shrinker / stretcher machine?


Best regards,
Nicolas

You may try with a heavy hammer, plus scrap steel. Two pieces at the back each side of the recess you want to have deeper, another scrap steel into that recess and bam, bam, bam! Be careful not to break the hammer's handle! It's mere or less the method I used to shape the floor pieces from my '56 Biarritz.

G'day Nicholas,

The only way to make them deeper, without total distortion of the surrounding metal, is going to be with the use of heat, making mandrels, both male and female, and a big hammer.

When I made the replacement panels for a '71 Eldo, I used two pieces of 3/8" steel plate, and 1/4"steel rod, and welded the rods to the plate, in such a way that when the sheet metal was sandwitched between the two plates, belting the top piece with a 14 Lb. Sledge Hammer created the indentations.

I only did straight ones, which replicated the Eldorado floor, but other shapes can be created by bending the rods to shape, and the opposite side the same, with clearance to allow the forming.

The reason I say use heat is that as the shape is already there, going cold will tend to shrink the metal overall, whereas heating up just the part to be deepened (re-shaped) will not cause problems with the surrounding metal, as only the indentation will stretch to fit.

Bruce. >:D

Bruce, you can explain much better what I intended to say!

Thanks Roger and Bruce, great idea.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hello Nicolas,

As Roger and Bruce explained, you are trying to duplicate the process by which the original and replacement sheet metal was formed.  This may be more effort than it is worth expending.

When the original and replacement panels were formed, the sheet metal is deformed.  When it is deformed, the steel gets "work hardened" in the areas of deformation.  The steel is never annealed after deformation, so it remains harder in the areas of deformation.  If you attempt to deform the metal 100 percent in the same locations, by increasing the depth of the deformation from 1/8" to 1/4", you may not get the results you anticipate.  You could pound away with a hammer and not achieve the depth you want, or you might tear the metal.

Bruce suggests the use of heat, which if applied properly and allowed to cool, will anneal the metal making it easier to work.  You could also make a set of dies from wood, and use a hydraulic press instead of a hammer.  I think this is too much effort for very little gain.

When getting into a convertible, a passenger will step on the floor before sitting in the seat.  What load does the floor need to handle to maintain its shape and minimize deflection under the load?  Where is the sub-floor bracket/brace in relation to the replacement panel?  Will you weld in the replacement panel using a butt joint or a lap joint?  The replacement panel should be welded to the bracket/brace using plug welds (unless you have a resistance spot welder with appropriate tips).

I am suggesting you concentrate your efforts on making sure the replacement panel fits perfectly, and is welded in properly.  I don't think the difference in depth between the factory floor and the replacement panel is significant enough to warrant re-working the replacement panel's indentations.

Respectfully submitted,

Christopher Winter

Plus, the only people that will see the completed article are those that are in the process of being run over, and I am pretty sure that they won't have time to see it.

When I was mentioning using heat, I was talking about heating up the area to be reformed and then hitting it whilst it is hot, and pliable.   This will need to be a two-person operation so the panel can be "moved" whilst it is still really hot.

I have since "invested" in an Arbor Press for such tasks, but that has its' limitations, unlike the Sledge Hammer method which can cover a vast area.

Plus, here are the Sledge Hammers I use, plus the "Anvil" which is that heavy that no way will 4 people lift it.   It is solid steel, and originally came from a Tow Motor and acted as a weight to hold the machine onto the ground so it didn't slip as it towed trolleys on the deck.   It takes me all my strength to roll it around.

Bruce. >:D

Hello Christopher,

Hm..ok, Have not thought about work hardening so far. Unfortunately, at the garage of my car I don't have a press. At my fathers place there is one. There is this brace below the floor pan, so I guess this is what gives the floor the strength to support the weight of a person stepping in.
I plan to weld butt joints on the perimeter and on the front and in the middle where the brace is I plan to replicate the spot welds.

Hi Bruce,
ohw wow, those hammers are pretty decent! :-D I would fear of not being too accurate with those tools.

My plan is now to make a die out of hard wood and try to form at least the dips a bit deeper to make it fit better where the metal transitions.

I hope to get started soon, keep watching for updates.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Quote from: DeVille68 on December 02, 2020, 01:17:51 AM
Hi Bruce,
ohw wow, those hammers are pretty decent! :-D I would fear of not being too accurate with those tools.   

Nicholas,
The beauty of the sledge hammers, when used in conjunction with the aforementioned steel formers, one doesn't have to expel much energy, apart from lifting up the big one, and guiding it downwards to strike the heck out of the top former, to squash the panel steel between the top and the bottom.   If it isn't deep enough, bash it again, but harder.

I use smaller ones for intricate forming, and the larger ones for "anvilling" when using the small ones.

Remember that the factory forming is probably handled by presses applying many many Tons, and all in one go.

Bruce. >:D

Hello

I need some advice: I cleaned up the fisher emblem on the side of the seat. The paint was half missing and the chrome was not shiny anymore. It cleaned up nicely but now every bit of paint is gone.

I tried to put the black back into the recessed area by using a paint marker. No success. Then I tried model color, it did work, but when it started to dry and I wiped off the excess some of the paint in the lower areas came loose.

So now, you can see in the foto below that the emblem is clean - how to apply the black paint in the lower areas?

Thanks
Nicolas

I would wait until dry and then scrape the excess paint. Or, eliminate the excess paint immediately. Paint does not stick well on chrome.

Nicolas, Dupli-Color and VHT make an 'adhesion promoter', which would be sprayed on slick surfaces (like chrome) before their anodized paint is sprayed on. Goes on clear; ... dries clear;  ..... sticks to everything, and everything sticks to it. It might be what that emblem needs ...

wow, I haven't updated my blog in more than half a year! Too much was going on, now I have a little bit more time again. Here are some updates of the work I did a few months back.

I ordered a replacement driver floor, it did fit somewhat, all features were there but not quite right. So, I found a metal guy in the area, with bicycle and train I went to the guy with the large sheet metal under my arms!  ;D :-X

He pounded on it, stretched the metal and bent the channel for the wires correctly. Also on the side the step up portion was not high enough. Turned out great! He was already retired but his Son took over the business. 

Then I carefully cut out the new piece to the hole I cut into the floor. Took quite a few hours, because I did not want to restart again. So, then I welded the cable strap for the speedometer cable and the little stud for the wire strap to the replacement. Those were missing. Make sure you don't loose these!

Then I used the WIG/TIG machine from my father and basically created tack-welds to hold the piece in. Then I used another material called cusi which requires much less heat and is safer / or easier to use on sheet metal. For a beginner as I am there is less risk of burning through the metal. So I filled everything with cusi. You notice that on the front where the original spot welds were, I had to cut relives into the piece to allow to reach the lower metal and induce enough heat for the welding. I then filled everything up with cusi, such that nobody sees.

then I cleaned the welds and wire brushed and cleaned the whole floor. After this preparation with metal ready from por15 and I painted everything in two coats with por15 semigloss black. The original color was more darkgrey instead of black, but they don't make the right shade, so semi gloss is close enough.

Next, I applied new seam sealer. I got it from an known company, würth through my buddy in the car business. Worked really well, and looks almost factory now. With the por15 there would not be a reason to use this stuff, but I wanted to redo it just like factory. And it adds a bit of dampening too.

next, I reattached a lose corded edge. Make sure to install the backing material first, bend the tangs and then install the piece with new staples. Otherwise you can't slip the backing material in with the tangs half bent out. I had to undo and redo again.

After this, I installed some heavy insulation on the floor with some additional vibre insulation on top. I think this is overkill, but I had it laying around so I though why not use it up. That's what I did. Looked real nice now!   

Next, I wondered since years why there was no hot air coming from the rear seat, because there is a duct and the floor flap was working oke. Well, I noticed that one previous owner installed a new carpet but he did not cut the carpet correctly so the duct was buried below the carpet! There are two metal pieces that hold down the carpet.
As you can see, I cut some windows and secured the carpet.

At one point I though about replacing the door sills, but look how nicely those polished out! Really happy with the result.

Best regards,
Nicolas


P.S: Sorry, some pictures seem to be on the head, but when you click on them to enlarge its in the correct orientation

Since years the power seat adjustment was not working right, the switch was wrong, it was for a passenger side of the seat, so the front to back movement was inverted. When the seat moved it would violently rock back and forth.
I removed the tracks and as expected discovered that almost all bushing where crushed. I ordered a round piece of delrin material and created my own bushing using the mill of my father. I took me quite long to get the shape right. But using a profile cutter for a routing machine for wood, I was able to get the radius very close to the rail. Below are some pictures.

Now with these new bushings the seats moves quite and firm again. 

It sure does help to have all of the right tools :)

I sent a leather sample of my dark green interior to a specialized leather shop and ordered colored leather fluid and leather tint. They mixed the color very well. I can't tell the difference. Then I cleaned all cracks with acetone, which is not recommended but worked very well. Since I was going to retint the leather anyways, I was not concerned about bleaching it out a bit. After hours of filling the cracks I applied the tint and the result is very good. I also had to glue in a bit of foam and fill in a big crack. Obviously, you can tell that its 50 year old leather, but for a convertible the leather now looks very good. See below.

Interesting! Nice to have such products more or less locally.

Next problem was fixing yet again the air conditioning of controls. I had again a big vacuum leak. Turned out that the rotary switch was broken apart in the power servo unit in the engine compartment. The arm must have been bent or something came loose. I had to reattach the two pieces with a special screw that I made. Now it holds vacuum again. I did bent the arm a bit down to prevent it from jumping out again.

Then I still had a very low vacuum signal in various systems. Only about 5'' when the supply was a constant 16''. So somewhere 10'' were escaping. I checked everything but could not find the problem. Then I thought again and when through the system by each component, soon enough I found that the vacuum delay was leaking. However, I could not see from where. But testing it individually it was clear it leaked.

So I removed the crimped aluminum cover, which reveals another clamp ring and the cover with the two fittings. Below it is the membrane and spring separating the two chambers. In one of the fotos you can barely see a  crack on the lower part extending to the outside ring. This part is covered by the aluminum cover under the crimp, so I could not see the crack when assembled.

I opened up the cracked area and used strong marine epoxy to fill it, then filled smooth and reinstalled. Now it holds 20'' no problem. Installed in the car again and I had 16'' of vacuum everywhere. The flaps are moving fast now. Perfect. So simple, just one malfunctioning piece and four system barely works anymore!
So happy I found this vacuum leak. Keep this unit in mind.

I even bought another "nos" unit a couple years ago but it had the same issues. Turns out it had a similar crack under the cover that I could not see! Now I have two working vacuum delay unit.

Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on June 30, 2021, 01:54:26 PM
Interesting! Nice to have such products more or less locally.

Yep, the company also sells leather care products that I am using since years. https://www.lederzentrum.ch/
I think the base company is a german business, but the swiss company behind the swiss version is the well known and old company Weidmann & Sohn in Fällanden.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Other smaller details, recently I was watching a video on youtube from a guy fixing a loose cadillac mirror. Turns out that I wondered why my view in the mirror was blurred too. So there is one single screw below the mirror which holds the class in. Then you can lift it up and pull on the cable to move the mirror out of the way, then there are two screws securing the top to the frame post. Those were loose and causing the mirror to vibrate. I applied some thread locker and tightened them again.

Then I decided to mount the mirror base correctly. This was annoying me since 10 years but never actually fixed. Turns out there is a c-shaped clamp below the mirror base which grabs the sheet metal. Since I did not wanted to bent that pot metal, I just applied some jb weld and let it cure. Just a little sanding was needed and now the mirror is mounted very tight for maybe the first time in years.

Next up was the kick down switch which suffered from two problems. I fixed it 8 years ago but now the shaft let loose again, so I applied som jb weld and used the milling machine again to make it a rectangle. Then I had to resolder the crimped terminal because from corrosion those lost contact with the internal pieces and it would not make a contact anymore.

Simple fixes but big improvements.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Yesterday, I finally repaired to broken seat spring that was annoying me since years, actually since I bought the car. I had yet again to remove the complete front seat and flip it up side down. Had to remove the transmission and seat motor to gain access to the spring. I cut the ends of the broken spring and cleaned the rusted metal. Then I made a small tube on the lathe with inside diameter 3,5mm. I then cut relieve cuts in the middle and bent it with heat to a 90 degree. I welded the bent section. Then I pushed the spring wire into this new 90 tube. I used cusi3 welding material because the temperatures needed are lower and it flows good.
Almost blind and not able to see I did manage to weld the tube in and secured the spring wire. I was quite surprised how well it turned out!
Taking a seat is much comfortable now and driver and passenger now sit a the same level again.
Should have done this years ago...

Best regards,
Nicolas

I finally gave up trying to make the exhaust leak free where it attached from the cross over tubes coming down from the manifolds. So I bought a steel band clamp from summit, quite surprised about the quality. It only costs 9 dollars but is very well made. Unfortunately, the front tube diameter is a bit smaller than the clamp expects, so there would no way to have a nice seal.

Hence I decided to use epoxy and fill this once and for all and make it leak free. I was really tired of those hissing sounds from underneath the car. As you can see, I applied epoxy around the tube and then tightened the clamp a bit.  I cut the excess off and let it cure for 4 hours, then I tightened a bit more, but not much. Now the rear part of the clamp perfectly embraces the tube and in the front the epoxy fills the space perfectly.
I will let it cure over night and test tomorrow. I hope this fixes my exhaust leaks, otherwise the problem must be coming from the attaching point of the manifold to the pipes.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Today, I had to drop the gas tank for the third time. Hopefully the last time.
The second time the gas tank was dropped was because the fuel gauge suddenly dropped to zero and remained there. So there must have been a short to ground of the sensor circuit. I then removed the tank suspecting I had done some error installing the sensor and float. However, I did not find anything wrong and the sensor worked again as soon as removed from the tank. So I just reinstalled it. Then shortly after about 50 miles, the gauge dropped again to zero.
So this time I removed the gas tank knowing that there must be an issue in the wiring or ground or something toughing the ground / metal. I keep an ohmmeter attached while dropping the tank to see if a wire was pinched but the meter remained reading zero ohm. Then I carefully removed the sensor and discovered that it too showed zero ohm. So there must be a short to ground somewhere. Turns out that this replacement unit had a bad plastic around the stud, preventing the rubber gasket to seat correctly. While driving it just happened to push the stud slightly to one side and it made contact with the metal, hence shorting the circuit and the gauge dropped to zero.

To solve this once and for all I created a special washer out of delrin, with a hole and collar that slides over the stud and into the base plate. On top is another washer just slightly larger thickness than the collar such that the nut pulls these two pieces together. It worked perfectly, tank installed again and gauge is working nicely.


Next problem was a squealing left tire on sharp left turns. I already noticed that the recommended 0 camber for the left side is probably too little for a radial tire. So I had to turn the camber eccentric a bit. These are usually very tight, the best way I found is to lift up the car such that the full spring force pushes against the ball joints, unscrew the nut one turn and then tap the side of the upper knuckle with a brass piece and a hammer. Much better as the factory recommendation in the shop manual which tells you to tap the stud of the balljoint with the risk of damaging the threads and slipping.
So, then almost all crawfoot adapter are to large to slide in between the ball joint and frame, or its difficult to get a tool in. Therefore I just made a steel bar that I could slide in an turn the eccentric a bit towards more negative camber.
The following test drive showed that the tire was holding on better. Maybe I need to change the setup a bit further but for now its good.

Best regards,
Nicolas 

Today I painted the inside of the front bow of my convertible top. It was sad looking and a bit rusty. The edge guard at the front bow is also rusty and lost color. How do you call that textile piece sliding over the edge of the front bow? edge guard?
Anyways, I reused my old one.
First I cleaned and sanded the front bow a bit to remove the loose paint and a bit of rust. I applied a first coat of semi gloss black paint and then I cleaned the edge guard and applied some adhesive to the inside.
Then I slid it over the still somewhat wet paint, then I added two other coats of paint.
I am quite happy with the result, however the front bow is now much shinier than the rest of the top frame. So I guess I have to repaint those pieces as well.

One note: The Authenticity Manual says that the top mechanism should be semi gloss black and the inside (inside liner) should be color keyed to the top color. In my case it should be Sandalwood, that is a color which is quite white but has some brown and grey in it.  A bit hard to describe.
However, I found that color on almost every piece of the top frame. Someone painted over with a matt black paint. So, I am not sure what happened here. The sandalwood paint seems to be the first paint of the top frames and the black on top. So either the my top mechanism stems from a different year where they color keyed the top frame too or someone really cleaned the frame well before spraying that Sandalwood color on it.

Anyone can tell me if there were other years that had the top frame color keyed? The Authenticity Manual specifies semi gloss black for 67 through 70.

Best regards,
Nicolas

For many years, 56 into the 70's the lining of the convertible was similar, but not identical to, the outside color; that is green/green, blue/blue, beige/beige etc. The exception is white. In some cases white had a light e beige liner, while in others the liner was black. In all cases the roof bows were painted an approximate color to the liner. In this way the interior had a harmonious finish with the balance to the car. The majority of  today's replacement tops have black liners regardless of the outside color. In that case, the bows should be painted black so they don't stand out. Recently, a member was looking for a 76 Firethorn top and the discussion lead to a vendor who had color matched liners. Search the threads for "Joe Northrop posts" for the vendor's name.

If you are going to keep your current top you should find a paint color similar to the top's liner.
HTH

Quote from: DeVille68 on June 30, 2021, 01:27:05 PM
Since years the power seat adjustment was not working right, the switch was wrong, it was for a passenger side of the seat, so the front to back movement was inverted. When the seat moved it would violently rock back and forth.
I removed the tracks and as expected discovered that almost all bushing where crushed. I ordered a round piece of delrin material and created my own bushing using the mill of my father. I took me quite long to get the shape right. But using a profile cutter for a routing machine for wood, I was able to get the radius very close to the rail. Below are some pictures.

Now with these new bushings the seats moves quite and firm again.

Nice work.  For those that don't have access to the same setup, these seat sliders are also reproduced with delrin, and sold by a guy on eBay.   
https://www.ebay.com/itm/332334620478
Chuck

Hi Chuck,
ah nice, when I started this task, those were more expensive and not available! So I had no choice of creating those myself.

Hi Ralph,
oke, hm... the liner of my replacement top (from electron top) is a faded black. I might need to redye the fabric to a nice black again. I probably repaint the rest of the top frame with semi gloss black.

Best regards,
Nicolas

Hello guys and girls,

I haven't updated my blog in a while, but I was constantly working on the car. But not project came to an end where I could report it here. I was having issues with my quadrajet again, hard cold start and also hard hot start. Turned out that I made some mistakes when I added the additional idle air according to the book of Cliff Ruggles. Actually one side of the quadrajet was drawing its idle air from beneath the venturi below the choke flap but the other side from the outside of the carb. Hence not affected by the choke, thus the hard starting.

I used epoxy to fill the wholes I made and used epoxy to build walls and drilled new ones to make the idle air path as equal as I could. This way the pressure drop should be about the same and the air is sucked in below the the choke flap.

I started the car a couple of times and it seemed to be better. However the car is already in winter storage again, because I need to finish the cleaning and painting of the underside of the body and frame. I am about to drop the transmission, I already removed all the lines and hardware. I need to restore the shift linkage, replace the drive shaft and find the engine oil leak.

Here are a few pictures of the rochester quadrajet idle air modifications. The book from cliff ruggles does not discuss those details.

Best regards,
Nicolas