Convert 1985 Eldo to Antilock Brakes??

[Jeff Pendleton]

Dear Cadillac friends,

Is it possible/reasonable/practical to convert a 1984/85 Eldo to antilock brakes?  If so, is there a bolt-on method, say from a later model where ABS was more prevalent?  

Thanks,
Jeff

[Rhino 21150]

There are kits available, try Google. You may want to think twice since the installation is going to be VERY complicated. Sensors on all the wheels, wires, controller for the master cylinder and more. Try a performance shop for bigger brakes, may make more sense.

[Jeff Pendleton]

Can not locate conversion kit via internet search.  Anyone know where to get one?
JP

[Michael Stamps 19507]

I have to agree with Rhino here.  The cost of parts and the time spent doing it wouldnt be worth it in my mind.  Upgrading if possible to bigger would give you a lot more return on your money.  Plus I dont want to have a computer telling me how to apply my brakes.

Stampie

[Jeff Pendleton]

Not just stopping power but control on snow, ice and wet conditions.  Any help locatig a kit of a way to do it would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Jeff

[Brian Rachlin]

Jeff,

ABS systems are very complicated, specifically engineered systems for particular models.  I have never heard of an aftermarket kit.

Your best bet is to have a professional mechanic go over YOUR brake system, and make sure that the rear calipers are actually working.

Using normal driving skills, you will have no problems on ice and snow.  I have driver these cars in all weather comditions since they were new with no problems.

Brakes are not something to experiment with, in my opinion.

Good Luck,

Skidd Marx  (Brian)

[Forrest Rossier]

There is no way you can convert regular brakes to ABS.  All kinds of factors come into play like front-to-rear weight ratios, etc.  You could never get it right.  Fugitaboutit!
F

[Bob Chesnutt CLC # 21760]

The 84, 85 Cadillac Eldo and Seville does not need ABS. I am not sure about the earlier ones, but suspect they are the same is they have rear disc brakes. They are designed where the rear brakes are temporarly prevented from engaging until after the front brakes are on. I would suspect someone has changed the master cylinder.  The original master cylinder had a special valve in it that kept the rear brakes from coming when the pedal is first pushed.  I never found a rebuilt or even a new GM replacement cylinder that had the valve.

We had 4 of these autos in Mn. and never had any trouble on ice.

Do you lack pedal travel also?  That usually goes along with a replacement master cylinder

Bob c.

[JIM CLC # 15000]

01-04-05
Jeff, dont think you need ABS, try altern your braken habits.
If you are in traffic and must stop, try shiftn the trans to N., when you are on ice/snow.
Try it, youll like it!
Good Luck, Jim

[Mike #19861]

 In my opinion, antilock brakes are downright dangerous in icy and snowy conditions. When you slam on the brakes, they brakes go into anti lock mode and the brakes really do not apply apreciably at all. This has the effect of greatly increasing stopping distances by as much as 2 1/2 times and more!

 I know this first hand as I experimented on a slippery snowy road with an anti lock equipped car. The car was a late model Grand Am and the speed from which the car was stopped was 50 kmh (30 mph). I could stop the car controllably in less than 50 ft without activating the ABS and modulating the brakes myself. When I activated the ABS, the car seemed like it would never stop. It kept on going and going. Eventially after more than 200 ft, the car stopped! These results were confirmed in  an article in Car and Driver. The only time stopping distances were reduced was on dry pavement, when you really do not need ABS. As a matter of fact, it was common for vehicles to be towed in during the winter with the complaint of complete brake failure, when in fact all that was wrong was the driver was trying to stop, with ABS engaged, on icy surfaces.

 To me, the effect of ABS is to lower the skill of driving to the lowest common denominator. In slippery conditions, you better hope that you maintain control, because you certainly are not going to be able to stop! If you are coming up on a stop sign or red light, the situation could be dire.

 There is no substitute for good driving skills, particularly in compromising situations. ABS is a granny device that can be dangerous in certain situations. You are better off without it.

 Mike

[David #19063]

Mike,

I agree that in certain Winter conditions, the anti-lock brakes seem to take more distance to stop.  

What I found was when it within a couple degrees of freezing with 2"-4" of slush on a packed slushy surface, the anti lock brakes seemed dismal.

I tried this back in 99 with my wifes 96 DeVille Concours w/4 wheel discs and my 69 LeSabre w/4 wheel drums.  Making hard & quick stops in the above condition from 10-25 mph.

It took approximately 1/2 to 1 1/2 car lengths longer to stop with the anti lock brakes of the Concours than the LeSabres wheels.

However, the Concours would stop straight and the LeSabre would usually always slide a sideways some.

I did not try this at higher speeds.

Both cars had new tires, the Concours - Michelin XGT-H4 235 60R16s and the LeSabre - BF Goodrich Radial TA 255 60R15s.

Now on dry pavement at highway speeds, the Concours anti lock brakes stops much quicker and straight than the LeSabre.  

In fact, in one panic stop in the LeSabre from 70 mph, a full lock up on dry pavement, she did a 180 (half spin) as I ended up right beside a new Mercury minivan (which the corner of my rear bumper just barely clipped her rear corner) at the stop lights...but backwards...on a 4 lane highway.

If I had been in the Concours, I would have stopped well before the van.

For those twisted enough to want to know...damage to my LeSabre was barely noticeable about $400 and the minivan was about $2200.  My insurance covered both.

And on wet roads, anti lock brakes are so far superior versus standard brakes, especially when you can still steer and not spinout at highway speeds on wet roads.

Just my opinion.

David

[Mike #19861]

 Yes, but to compare a car wit 4 wheel drums with a car with 4-wheel discs is like comparing apples to oranges. Drum brakes, unless properly set up, will defineately pull to one side or the other in a panic stop. This was an issue even back in the days when these types of brakes were popular. There is no comparison in braking performance between 4-wheel drums and 4-wheel discs.

 Disc brakes are infinately superior to drum brakes, hands down. And I agree that the addition of ABS in some circustances improves them, but in some cases, they do not. Such as the aforementioned icy and slippery surfaces. And they are no substitute for sound driving techniques and good driving habits. They may may make a poor driver a bit safer, but at the same time compromise a good drivers techniques.  That is precisely why they are shunned on competition cars.

  Mike

[Mark]

A retired-police vehicle that I previously owned had the ABS disconnected.  I asked the garage that had serviced the vehicle during its "career" why they chose to disconnect the ABS and they stated that ABS-off provided better stopping for a "professional" driver.

[Mike #19861]

 When Chevrolet released the 91 Caprice 9C1 to police fleets some problems occurred with the handling of the cars in some high speed maneuvres.  It seems the police were uneducated in the properties and characteristics of ABS and it caused some vehicle crashes during traditional police maneuvres.

 According to Chevrolet, educational materials were sent out to the police forces to educate the officers on these new ABS systems, and the problems were resolved. Today all police vehicles employ ABS.

 I remember some controversy at the time, coming from our provincial OPP, about the cars not responding to the old brake and spin maneuvre to turn a vehicle quickly. This maneuvre required the the wheels be locked, and resulted in vehicle crashes when the car would just steer into obstacles, or go off the road. ABS more or less eliminated the use of this very helpful maneuvre.

 I would suspect that some cars had the systems disabled so that more control remained with the officer. But this could open a liability can of worms, and that is why Chevrolet chose to not remove or disable the systems, particularly in larger forces. Instead, the training techniques were changed to accomodate the systems. This has led to the cars being a bit less effective as pursuit vehicles.

 But once the LT1 was employed in the Caprice, any bad notions of ABS, or the size of the car disappeared simply because of the cars considerable performance envelope.

  Mike

[Porter]

Years ago when I lived in NJ there was a scandal, the North Brunswick police force had removed their catalytic convertors on their Chevy squad cars ! Shame, shame.

Speaking of police cars, when is the General going to wake up and build a real squad car once again ?

Professionals need the best tools to work with and F**d , while providing the best available falls way below the mark that GM had established, you could even argue the old Mopars were the best.

Maybe the new F**d squad car will be the 500, if they can ever build an engine to drop under the hood that has the reliability, durability and power like the Generals SBCs.

Or will the Grand Marquis survive ?

Maybe F**d is smarter than we give them credit for, heck, GM is importing the rebadged Holdens (GTOs) over here, why not ship the 4 door Holdens for police use back to the states ?

The Tassie Devil(le) would be proud.

ABS brakes were a huge problem on police vehicles for the officers initially.

Porter

[Mike #19861]

 GM has a lower cost (than the Sigma) RWD platform under development. Eventually, I think we will see the developmnet of a police package car from that. Defineatly with small block power.

 I doubt GM will import the Holden Commodore for police use. The interior volume and trunk capacity is not great enough for normal police work. That is why the 9C3 Lumina became known as the "No Roomina"

 Chrysler is being rumpoured to be readying an A-38 Charger for police work. With the Hemi, this car will set new standards for performance. I feel it will steal the crown from the 1994-96 LT1 powered 9C1 Caprice, which took it from the 1969-72 A-38 Polaras and Furies.

 In the meantime, the barely capable Ford Crown Victoria will have to do as the default police vehicle. By virtue of its size and RWD, it is one of the few logical choices left for police departments. The other is the Impala, but with FWD, it is somewhat limited for pursuit work, even though it is faster than the P-71 Crown Victoria.

 Perhaps Ford will develop a suitable full sized Police Car from the Mustang platform. Now, if they can give it the power, and a reliable transmission, maybe it would be a competitive choice.

  Mike

[Porter]

Hotrod squad cars from the big three.

Only now you can do it with a small block, its not all about "hot pursuit", matter a fact they frown on that today, too many innocent bystanders can get injured.

Often times they just need to get someplace in a hurry, with a fast safe durable vehicle.

They deserve the best and the big three should deliver the goods.

When and if I see a police vehicle not manufactured by the big three domestics then I know the old North American brands are doomed.

Porter

[RAMairGTO72]

Dear Cadillac friends,

Is it possible/reasonable/practical to convert a 1984/85 Eldo to antilock brakes?  If so, is there a bolt-on method, say from a later model where ABS was more prevalent?  

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff, I haver read most of what these people wrote below, it's upsetting that people with very little knowledge would answer the way they did, if they don't know they should not answer! ABS dose make you stop faster and have more control in most cars and trucks, people think they dont work because of the control you still have while under hard stopping, the ABS is able to figure the correct amount of "grab, go, grab, go" you need to stop and still steer.  A regular non ABS system under a hard stop grabs and will not let go until you do, the rubber on the tire gets hot, burns causing a slip surface of hot rubber that gives you little to no control to steer, on top of this you just put 4 flat spots on your tires!

With ABS the "grab, go" lets the tire rotate to cooler tire rubber for a "new" area to help slow down as well steer the car or truck away from pending if avoidable wreck.  The police cars that had this disabled could have been and most likely wanting to toss the car around during corner or other power slides, some people might do it to disable traction control systems that work with and just like the ABS. As for snow the ABS works just like pumping your brakes like you should in non ABS cars, on Ice ABS will stop you faster then non ABS pumping or not so these guys below can try to prove i'm wrong or eat cheese, and if you don't know about it don't talk about it!

I don't BS, if I don't know about something I dont halfass it, all you people did was "Naa I think they had one but, yeaa you dont need it" or "You need money and lots of i you have to weld a speed sensor ummm MONEY" or "It took approximately 1/2 to 1 1/2 car lengths longer" WTF! did you set up some measuring marks on the ground, over the slush? or you just eye ball it do both cars weigh the same, same tires, same width, length, was it the same slush depth, if it was slick then getting an accurate speed with wheels slipping you would never be able to get an accurate speed  , this guy wanted an answer and you busted his nuts about it, I guess every car maker is wrong, they should Email you guys for your real world opinions?

ABS works better then non ABS cars, the only time you would not want ABS is if you did rock crawling in a 4x4!

They did sell a ABS conversion and it was in J.C. Whitney for a time where I seen it but they no longer sell it nor can I find it!

It used solenoids off the master cylinder, it was able to sense hard braking and the solenoids would "grab, go" very fast and until you got off the breaks doing a rude impression of PCM controlled ABS, it used no wheel sensors, no high end PCM brain, it used simple pressure switches tied into the hydro brake lines to tell the solenoids to turn on and off.   I don't know how well it worked but it I remember the company claimed it stopped you faster, what was cool about it is that it fit just about any car or truck with hydro brakes!

I would be willing to use this on any one of my cars that dont have it, it's worth a try with a test for sure, if you end up finding this system please let me know.

RAMairGTO72

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

This thread is 4 YEARS OLD! I guess my question is;  how do posters find them & why don't they pay attention to the dates? Bob

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Might have done a search on a specific word, and up it came.

Bruce.

PS.   Some people wouldn't know where the date was.