Should the for sale and wanted sections be members only?

[TJ Hopland]

With the upcoming change to having to be a CLC member to post on the forums and increasing spam and scammers it seems like a good time to consider other changes. 

Its apparently technically possible to limit which sections are able to be viewed by non members so we just have figure out what the group thinks would be best.  If you have to be a member to view and post the ads that seems like it would cut down on the spammers and scammers. I don't think it would hurt exposure since there are plenty of other 'public' places you can shop and post things for sale.

What does everyone else think? 

[Bryan J Moran]

If I understand your position, you are saying that the forums should be 100% CLC member access only to eliminate the chance for fraud activity, as we have seen a lot of lately. If a person can't even view the content, they can't commit fraudulent activity. 

If there was fraud post decision, if this members only edict was the way, then the CLC would know the fraud was coming from another CLC member and I am sure that account could be found out. 

On the other hand - the main purpose for the change is enticement of non members to become members, so they can post on the forum. Hopefully to increase membership, which is important these days as all clubs are in free fall membership wise. 

I don't think this late in the game, there is going to be a change to members only forums - including viewing.  However, if fraud becomes so rampant, then perhaps the next time the board meets they would consider it. 

My vote, although my vote means nothing, would be for no change to the newest May 1 policy. I suppose some members can't smell a fraud like most of us can, but it's pretty easy to see a fraudulent response to a parts wanted ad in my opinion. 

#2 - parts wanted ads make up a small portion of the total content of the forum.

[TJ Hopland]

We will see what other regular users think over the next several days.  I just wanted to bring it up since there seems to be a lot of spam n scam talk going on and the other member change would seem like a good time to make other changes. 

Would it make sense to make a public for sale section?  Since non members would not be able to send messages or look up contact info from the forum anymore maybe that will be enough to slow down the casual scammer spammers?  But if the public can't reply then why bother showing it to them anyway?  Are people going to join to buy a part or a car?

I don't spend a lot of time in those sections anyway so I don't really care either way just wanted to bring it up to get others to think about it. 

[smokuspollutus]

I am on the other side of this. If the site is going to be members only, to me the only section that should be public is the for sale/want to buy.

Can't understand why the part of the site that connects club members with the very thing were all here for, should be restricted to only other club members products. Don't we want to see as many of these cars/parts get into club members hands where they'll presumably be taken the best care of? I can recall many threads where a non-member acquires a family members old Cadillac or parts and needs assistance with pricing and selling. Why close our group out of that?

Or maybe someone is looking to get in to the hobby. Wouldn't we really rather see him get into a quality CLC member owned car and join the club?

Let's be real, we've all gotten these messages a million times. Who has realistically been scammed? Often they're even the same exact message verbatim for various listings you have.  As they say, a fool and his money are soon parted, but these scammers are opportunists at best. They could be defeated without wrecking the whole site by simply forcing them to try to scam out in the open and denying unpaid users PM privileges.

[Abe Lugo]

I was under the impression that most all of this was already locked out now to members only. 
It worked for the National Fairlane club. Should work here.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

G'day Abe,

The locking out doesn't start till the 1st May.

But, anyone can post a message in the For Sale and Wanted to buy by simply joining the Forum.

It is on the 1st May that anyone wanting to post will have to physically join the CLC in the Financial way.

I suppose it could be said that if joining the CLC, and Advertising, it is a paid commercial.

Bruce.

[billyoung]

I think Bruce makes a good point. If you are a vendor of old Cadillac parts becoming a member to post is a good value toward your target audience. This lockout will mostly assure that buy and sell here is legit. Of course in this day and age anything can happen but at least any bad transactions will come to light in the Club sooner rather than later. I have purchased parts for my 1968 on E-Bay over the last year and in two instances I got taken. No one to blame but my self.

[dn010]

Just read the "beware" posts and you'll see how many people have "realistically been scammed" here. I am all for a forum that is accessible by paying members only. A few examples taken from warning posts below:

"Alton Hope got me for 50.00 bucks off of this site. I was looking for a part with no success and was messaged by Jude sending me to Alton. Oh well live and learn."

"He got $410 from me for a gas tank through this site and Zelle. I hope he dies a slow death. I will try to get it back through Zelle and my bank."

"so for 420 bucks, paypal he will send them both to me..he insisted that i do paypal friends and family to avoid charges.....so i sent it. no heads...no communication after that.....yup he screwed me"

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

I hate to see that, but it probably isn't a bad idea.
When I joined I sold a few things and just shipped them when people told me they put a check in the mail, and I mailed a check when people told me they were going to ship it. Admittedly it was very few parts-- And a different time.

It seems that everyone knows to not use Friends and Family, or Zelle, but people still do it.

Is there a way to put the warning on the sale sites pinned to the top as a reminder?
Some way to make a warning pop up when you click on the for sale section?

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Sending money via PayPal - "Friends & Family" eliminates transaction fees to the seller and purchase protection for the buyer.

The buyer can always volunteer to pay the extra 3-4%(?) through "Purchases" (not F&F) enabling the seller to realize the full agreed-on price thereby allowing the buyer to maintain recourse in the event the transaction is fraudulent. If the seller still objects, it's probably best to move on. 

[Bryan J Moran]

Just read the "beware" posts and you'll see how many people have "realistically been scammed" here. I am all for a forum that is accessible by paying members only. A few examples taken from warning posts below:

"Alton Hope got me for 50.00 bucks off of this site. I was looking for a part with no success and was messaged by Jude sending me to Alton. Oh well live and learn."

"He got $410 from me for a gas tank through this site and Zelle. I hope he dies a slow death. I will try to get it back through Zelle and my bank."

"so for 420 bucks, paypal he will send them both to me..he insisted that i do paypal friends and family to avoid charges.....so i sent it. no heads...no communication after that.....yup he screwed me"

Even I have been scammed.  My bug-a-boo has always been shipping, and that I am a hand shake kind of guy.

1. Sent a fellow with an ad in Hemmings (yes, Hemmings!) for pick up of a 1950 Buick Roadmaster 2 door hard top in Dallas, Texas.  Took my money, never delivered anything. 

2. I used a site called "Yesterday's Tractor" and the guy wanted some of the money by something like a card I got from Dollar General, then give me the numbers on it.  I did so, and lost $200 or so. 

3. Sent $1,000 to a guy on the Vermont-Canadian Border to retrieve a 1942 Packard 180 7 passenger sedan from Canada.  Never picked it up, said he kept the money and spent it. 

Of course, all this makes me look really dumb.  These experiences made me understand that NO old car is worth it, there are always others to have fun restoring. 

But -the point is that scammers look for "desperate" people. If you "must have" that part, they suddenly have it. 

[smokuspollutus]

So if it is that lucrative and easy to scam people on here, sounds like the thief will still be ahead to spend the 25 dollar registration fee, provide a bogus name and address and keep on fishing. All the while wasting resources.

Some kind of quality content/time of membership score for private messaging privileges would probably be at least as effective at stymieing scammers and have the benefit of keeping the club accessible to prospective new members. I can't see these kinds of BS transactions going on out in the open without other members stepping in and warning the person about to get ripped off.

There is no honor in the digital world. Blindly sending funds without knowing who the person is or even verifying that they exist...I'm sorry but if you do that you're better off buying the bridge I'm selling than antique autos. As long as people continue sending the money, the thieves will be there to take it.

[Cadman-iac]

  So here's a thought. To register as a member in good standing, you must show proof that you actually own a Cadillac. You have to take a picture of yourself standing next to your car and show proof of ownership, IE: a title or registration. This must be done on the day that you apply for membership and to prove that you need the newspaper from that day showing the date in the same picture.
Proof positive that you are who you say you are and proof that you actually own a Cadillac and can be a member of this forum.
This proof will only be viewed by the administration members in charge of approving such applications.
 It's like the requirements necessary to register to vote or to get a driver's license.
I know that sounds extreme, but what the hell, if you are serious about this issue, this would definitely be a step in the right direction.

Rick

[dn010]

So if it is that lucrative and easy to scam people on here, sounds like the thief will still be ahead to spend the 25 dollar registration fee, provide a bogus name and address and keep on fishing. All the while wasting resources.

Some kind of quality content/time of membership score for private messaging privileges would probably be at least as effective at stymieing scammers and have the benefit of keeping the club accessible to prospective new members. I can't see these kinds of BS transactions going on out in the open without other members stepping in and warning the person about to get ripped off.

There is no honor in the digital world. Blindly sending funds without knowing who the person is or even verifying that they exist...I'm sorry but if you do that you're better off buying the bridge I'm selling than antique autos. As long as people continue sending the money, the thieves will be there to take it.

Scammers are in the business of stealing money, not spending money - none of them are going to spend $25 only to be caught, banned and then lose his fee. As long as people continue to spend the money, thieves MAY be there to take it but it is nice to make it as hard as possible for them to do so and a paid registration does just that. I'd rather be sending my money to a forum member than some random person who pops in, posts one ad to sell something and then drops out of the community and is never heard from again.

So here's a thought. To register as a member in good standing, you must show proof that you actually own a Cadillac. You have to take a picture of yourself standing next to your car and show proof of ownership, IE: a title or registration. This must be done on the day that you apply for membership and to prove that you need the newspaper from that day showing the date in the same picture.
Proof positive that you are who you say you are and proof that you actually own a Cadillac and can be a member of this forum.
This proof will only be viewed by the administration members in charge of approving such applications.
 It's like the requirements necessary to register to vote or to get a driver's license.
I know that sounds extreme, but what the hell, if you are serious about this issue, this would definitely be a step in the right direction.

Rick

While this sounds good, you'd also have to prove who you are in the picture you're sending.

[Caddy Wizard]

I would be in favor of allowing non-CLC folks to view the Forum, but not be able to post anything anywhere on the site.  That should be a way of both limiting the scammers and encouraging membership.

[Jason Edge]

I would be in favor of allowing non-CLC folks to view the Forum, but not be able to post anything anywhere on the site.  That should be a way of both limiting the scammers and encouraging membership.

Art, That is exactly what we will be doing May 1. It has been stated several times and several ways that our forums will become "Public Restricted" after May 1. That is, you can view the forums, including For Sale forums; however, if you want to join the forum and participate you will have to be a CLC member.  This is the plan adopted by the CLC Board of Directors at the Summer Grand Nationals in Albuquerque this past year and will be implemented after May 1.

For our non-CLC forum members, consider that posting to this forum is just one of many benefits of membership.  You get to attend Grand Nationals, go on National Driving Tours, join local regions, join model year specific Chapters, access to the International Director with over 5000 members, and of course receive the award winning monthly Self-Starter magazine. And yes, after May 1, interacting here on the CLC Forums will be a member only benefit.

Check out other benefits at benefits.cadillaclasalleclub.org.

[TJ Hopland]

So it looks like where we landed with this small survey is to stick with the original plan of leaving them visible to all.

I actually just looked at the cars for sale section an clicked on several ads on the first two pages and didn't stumble on one ad that was a member selling.  They may be there I just didn't happen to find one, they were all 'not mine' ads which is fine.  I guess I see why there isn't much concern on the subject since its mostly outside ads that have contact info in the ads or links to the original ads that then have the contact info.   

[tcom2027]

Good morning,


By limiting access to the classifieds to members only exposure is severely limited. I've been a prewar guy for well over thirty years. Participation in that sector of the hobby has declined, supplanted by interest in the sixties and seventies era cars. It's not only the Cadillac sector but across the old car hobby.

I am not insinuating that there is limited interest in Cadillacs and LaSalles of the classic era. Cars from that era are timeless treasures and will continue to increase in value assuring their continued existence. 


It is getting very difficult to find parts, original and reproduction parts for prewar and early postwar cars. Don't think so, look at McVeys' Kanters,'eBay and Steele Rubber for example. Many of the parts they used to feature from that era are no longer available. But I do believe Independence Porcelain is still porcelainizing manifolds.   

I reupped to be able to get and share information about cars from that era. There isn't much that I can find currently on the site, no dedicated forum except the restoration forum. 

Allowing the public to use our classifieds provides members with another source of parts and services, consequently I am against it. I have parts that I am going to be selling and want as much exposure as I can get and possibly benefit benefit fellow club members. Prior to purchasing the LaSalle I currently own I cruised the CadLas Club classifieds. I didn't find the car of my dreams but I did take advantage of the clubs' classifieds. Once I bought the car I reupped. When the time comes to sell, I will list it in the Clubs' classified first.

Today more than ever "caveat emptor" is more important then ever before. If you suspect a scam, e.g.,Send money by Western Union, gift card, cash, Zelle or PayPal friends or gift, beware, better yet. don't do it. Use Googles' reverse picture function to check if if the picture of that OEM A/C  automatic temp controller for your '67 is genuine. If in doubt about a seller or vendor, use the forum to verify they are genuine.

 To further avoid scams, take advantage of club members to look over a car for sale outside your area, same for large parts. Many members will be glad to inspect a car or large parts if you ask. Most won't charge to do it but an offer to pay expenses plus a few bucks would be welcome. Easy to do with a directory or through a forum post.

This has gotten way too long.

tony

[GregoryAlan]

I like it...
...they can view it but unless they are CLC members they can not post!

[gkhashem]

If I am in business to sell parts, why not join the electronic dues way and use that as a write off for advertising?  I thought the electronic dues were cheap like $25 ?

Come on ...a seller cannot afford $25 to a advertise? Sounds like people cannot afford an ID to vote. But they drive, buy beer, etc etc... These are hollow arguments to not join and to scam people.