1970s Goodbye & thanks.

[wrefakis]

as your name implies "multiple caddies" you must have run up against a few car deals that you could not come to terms on,so,why all the endless discussion on the 25$? Price too high,pass the car.
those of us that pay do so to help finance keeping the club going,and again if 2.08 per month breaks the bank,maybe this is not the place to be

[MultipleCaddies]

as your name implies "multiple caddies" you must have run up against a few car deals that you could not come to terms on,so,why all the endless discussion on the 25$? Price too high,pass the car.
those of us that pay do so to help finance keeping the club going,and again if 2.08 per month breaks the bank,maybe this is not the place to be

Again, completely missing the point. I can't make it any clearer than I already have. I can only explain it to you, I can't understand it for you. I cannot help but come to the conclusion that you are willfully, intentionally missing the point just for the sake of telling the outsider to get lost.

[wrefakis]

no,we all started as "outsiders" but the club does cost $ to operate,and those of us that actually do own these cars do not object to helping fund the club
 you pay more than $25 in tax to fund lord knows what on a single fill up

so pay the 25 and welcome

[MultipleCaddies]

I am tired of hearing for the last 25 years that this group or that group needs to "appeal to the youth."

This one simple line of yours so perfectly exemplifies the attitude that will ensure failure. Complete and total inability to adapt with the people or the times. I get it, you want to run a tight knit little club with no outsiders. That's fine, that's your right. Why don't you come out and say that then? Why bother trying to recruit new members? You aren't interested, despite the protestations of many here to the contrary. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want the club and the forum to live on, you have no choice but to accept an influx of new people with new ideas. To think that there is any other way to survive in this modern internet environment is totally devoid of all reason and logic.

[MultipleCaddies]

no,we all started as "outsiders" but the club does cost $ to operate,and those of us that actually do own these cars do not object to helping fund the club
 you pay more than $25 in tax to fund lord knows what on a single fill up

so pay the 25 and welcome

A VERY small percentage of Cadillac owners do not object to paying for a club membership. Surely you understand that there are more than ~6,200 Cadillac owners in this country (and indeed the world), right? The huge majority of Cadillac owners and enthusiasts are not part of this club. I'd venture a guess and say the number or Cadillac owners in this country is well into seven figures. Likely millions of people worldwide, but only about 6,200 choose to pay for a club membership. My oh my, what a world of cheapskates.

Some of them even post on this forum. In fact, by the numbers, non-paying forum members outweigh paying club members about 2:1. I suppose they're all meaningless to you as well? Easily dismissed as freeloaders who don't matter? Like the millions of Cadillac owners who don't pay for a club membership? Are you going to stick to your reasoning that every one of them is a cheapskate who values McDonald's over a car club? That's a hell of a take.

[wrefakis]

never said a word of this
i said if you do not agree with the price of an item,pass on it
those of us that decide to support the club make that choice
cadillacs are expensive,so it follows that so is club membership?

[Cadman-iac]

A VERY small percentage of Cadillac owners do not object to paying for a club membership. Surely you understand that there are more than ~6,200 Cadillac owners in this country (and indeed the world), right? The huge majority of Cadillac owners and enthusiasts are not part of this club. I'd venture a guess and say the number or Cadillac owners in this country is well into seven figures. Likely millions of people worldwide, but only about 6,200 choose to pay for a club membership. My oh my, what a world of cheapskates.

Some of them even post on this forum. In fact, by the numbers, non-paying forum members outweigh paying club members about 2:1. I suppose they're all meaningless to you as well? Easily dismissed as freeloaders who don't matter? Like the millions of Cadillac owners who don't pay for a club membership? Are you going to stick to your reasoning that every one of them is a cheapskate who values McDonald's over a car club? That's a hell of a take.

 Enough already, jezz, put up or shut up. It's going to cost 25 bucks to join and participate, and it's your choice to do so or not, and that's not going to change.
 Put your money where your b__ mouth is or shut the F___ up!!

 Respectfully,
 Rick

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

This one simple line of yours so perfectly exemplifies the attitude that will ensure failure. Complete and total inability to adapt with the people or the times. I get it, you want to run a tight knit little club with no outsiders. That's fine, that's your right. Why don't you come out and say that then? Why bother trying to recruit new members? You aren't interested, despite the protestations of many here to the contrary. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want the club and the forum to live on, you have no choice but to accept an influx of new people with new ideas. To think that there is any other way to survive in this modern internet environment is totally devoid of all reason and logic.

Just stop. There's no point debating the matter any further and your attitude stinks to put it bluntly. Nobody is interested in opinionated blather from a full of himself know it all. Any possibility of having a productive discussion has gone out the window due to your insufferable attitude and everyone here had enough of it. You have a lot to learn before you have a chance of gaining respect from those you hope to influence. To that end you could not have done more self inflicted damage if you tried.

Instead of proselytizing the matter here, why not start your own car club if you're so damn smart.

[MultipleCaddies]

Just stop. There's no point debating the matter any further and your attitude stinks to put it bluntly. Nobody is interested in opinionated blather from a full of himself know it all. Any possibility of having a productive discussion has gone out the window due to your insufferable attitude and everyone here had enough of it. You have a lot to learn before you have a chance of gaining respect from those you hope to influence. To that end you could not have done more self inflicted damage if you tried.

Instead of proselytizing the matter here, why not start your own car club if you're so damn smart.

Do you hear yourself? This kind of obtuse rhetoric that completely ignores the discussion at hand means nothing to me. You and fellas like Cadman-iac above are just fishing for a certain kind of reaction and you won't get one from me. I've made valid points that most of you aren't even trying to address, you just get out your pitchforks. Does not speak very well to the welcoming arms of this club, now does it?

[David King (kz78hy)]

Check out post 105 in the what happened to the Arc thread.  The show continues.

[Bryan J Moran]

OMG !  Moderators?  Are there any moderators??  Troll alert. 

[79 Eldorado]

The topic of the CLC Club worth should really be a separate topic. The CLC could decide to charge $25 for the forum and provide a free CLC Club membership. That puts it in a different perspective. Those people who are passionate about not paying for a traditional car club are not; they simply get that benefit for free with the paid forum membership.

The passion many have for the CLC is causing the point of concern about the health of forums to be missed. Unless there is at least a lesser-member free option, the forum dies or becomes a shell of what it was (entry free membership encourages new users). If 100% of the current forum members paid a forum subscription of $25 per year it only changes the slope of the decline with a paid-only model. Even if the price of a forum membership didn't include a CLC membership some of those forum members would become CLC members and some would have been introduced to the CLC who would have otherwise not been.

Scott

[timer2]

This is by far the most bizarre conversation I've ever read on any forum. I'm not a member and will probably not join but I'll still read this forum from time to time, even if I can't post. I can't imagine getting so worked up, Mr Doyle, about basically club rules that it's making people angry at you. At my age,70, I look for friendships, not adversaries.  T. Irvin

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Do you hear yourself? This kind of obtuse rhetoric that completely ignores the discussion at hand means nothing to me. You and fellas like Cadman-iac above are just fishing for a certain kind of reaction and you won't get one from me. I've made valid points that most of you aren't even trying to address, you just get out your pitchforks. Does not speak very well to the welcoming arms of this club, now does it?

Frankly it's difficult to imagine the likes of you being welcomed anywhere. Your problem is a social skills problem. Not a CLC problem.

[D. Mailan]

Hello all,

Just read through this discussion and wow!! There is a great deal of passionate arguments going on here. I will once again add my two cents. 

In the posts that were lost a few months ago, I was called a "freeloader" by another member discussing this very topic. I was greatly astonished that that is the kind of language allowed on here. Then again we see this irritant attitude to those who are displeased with the clubs decision to kick off members and force their hand into membership.

I will reiterate for those who seem aloof to understanding that making a membership threshold to post will most definitely, without question, without a doubt, and indisputably will result in a sharp decline in traffic on this forum and in good time, will become less exciting and less active.

This is almost verbatim,  word for word, what I tried to explain a few months ago but ended up on deaf ears:

As someone who is attending college right now, I would best put that money towards my Cadillac and my education. I asked questions here but I did what I could to help others with the knowledge I've gotten with being born and raised with 50's and 60's Cadillacs. With the help I have received here, I have done my best to reciprocate that when I could. I know a great deal about these fine automobiles and also love to learn more about them.

I said in a lost post, The fact is, the $1,200 jetaway deluxe tranny rebuild my 59 got 5 years ago now costs $4,500 for the same transmission on my 58. Or the carter carb rebuild on my 56 that cost $150 three years ago now cost me $350 for my 60 a few weeks ago?? This hobby is becoming more and more unaffordable every day. I would hate to be restoring a classic car today. It would most likely cost double the value of the car. When my dad and grandfather fully restored our 1960 and 1965 series 62 coupes 20 years ago, the cost of restoring both those cars then is less that one would have to spend on just restoring one. I know more people trying to sell their old car because they can't afford it than those who are looking for one.

Now here we are, we are going to be charged to help and be helped with our cars. I though this was about helping fellow Cadillac owners who took pride in the automobiles we all enjoy. Like mentioned, only a handful of people are posting here frequently.

Once again, my argument is not about bickering for some $25. That is meaningless. It is irrelevant twaddle. My argument is the repercussions of having a membership threshold to post. If I had to pay when I first had a question to ask on here, I would have not bothered. Not for one minute. I would have carried on my merry way. And every user on here can agree to that. Not everyone here is doing a concourse restoration and is in desperate need to be on the forums. Some people have little questions that they are curious about. That to me, made the forums interesting. I happily asked questions and happily contributed to other's discussions. Yes, the information on these forums are worth more than $25 a year. There is no argument there. Those howling "BUT IF YOU DONT HAVE $25 YOU CANT AFFORD A CADILLAC", that escapes the point. Why would anyone want to disenfranchise any prospective or a new Cadillac owner by discouraging them from getting info and help by making them become a member to ask for help??

When a friend of mine asks me for help on his car (or anything for that matter), I don't charge him. Because I know, the next day I might need their help. You will most definitely lose a great deal of traffic and interest on the forum. That's all I am saying. I am not angry or agitated that this is what the board decided. And I am not here trying to argue with anyone, I respect that everyone has a different view of which way this forum should head. The club has every right to make such arbitrary decisions that pertain to what they view is in the "best interests" of the club. I am merely offering my perspective for consideration.

Respectfully,
Derick

[MultipleCaddies]

This is by far the most bizarre conversation I've ever read on any forum. I'm not a member and will probably not join but I'll still read this forum from time to time, even if I can't post. I can't imagine getting so worked up, Mr Doyle, about basically club rules that it's making people angry at you. At my age,70, I look for friendships, not adversaries.  T. Irvin

This is a very common thing on the internet, unfortunately. A good number people seem to take great personal offense when someone with strongly held, well articulated opinions and beliefs comes along and is not swayed by the will of others. I can absolutely understand people disagreeing with things I have said, but the ad hominems, baseless attacks and accusations that I am a troll are just entirely unfounded based on anything I have said. I have absolutely no problem with disagreement and my posts here should show that my tendency is to present reasoned, well-articulated positions. But many people quickly fall below the belt when their attempts at simply shutting other people up are not successful. This is by no means unique to this forum, it is a trait that shows itself widely all across the internet. I cannot understand the angry reactions to passionate debate that I have seen from so many people so often. I'm not angry in the slightest, I'm merely firm in my convictions, and personal attacks and accusations of trolling are not going to have the effect that so many people seem to think it will have, or want it to have. I will say, it does bother me when people attempt to simply shut down other people just because they don't like what someone else has to say. I have never accepted that and never will. Seems an awful lot of people believe in the concept of "free speech for me, but not for thee", or "my way or the highway".

Yes, I'm confident in my beliefs and defend them adamantly. But at no point EVER have I even insinuated that other people shouldn't have the right to state and defend their position. Sadly, at least a few people here believe that they can and should be able to control the discourse that way. I'm just glad these folks are not in greater positions of power in this country.

[Bryan J Moran]

This is by far the most bizarre conversation I've ever read on any forum. I'm not a member and will probably not join but I'll still read this forum from time to time, even if I can't post. I can't imagine getting so worked up, Mr Doyle, about basically club rules that it's making people angry at you. At my age,70, I look for friendships, not adversaries.  T. Irvin

I think you could agree with Doyle and he would say " you miss the point." 

[Bryan J Moran]

You've made many derivative remarks.  It's just not worth my time to spend 2 hours copying and pasting them.  I wish you well. You have made your points.  Please stop.  I will.  Where is Bruce?! Or Vince. 

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

This topic has been locked, not by myself, but other moderators that cannot ignore the complaints by Members with regards to the total negativity of some people.

One thing that comes out of all of this is the fact that MultipleCaddies has probably done us a favour, in highlighting the need for the Payment of Membership to be able to post on this wonderful Forum.

People reading this thread will come to realise that some people are so selfish that they want stuff for nothing, even though the information is freely given to enable others to get back on the road, or solve a problem to save them lots of hard-earned cash.

MultipleCaddies has shown himself to be the type of person who will not even try to join in anything, unless he can get it for free.   Volunteering to help out at an Air Show  is another way of getting something for free.   Free entry to an event that he is interested in, getting to do a bit of free work, but enjoying the sights and sounds of an air show.

We wish MultipleCaddies all the best in his future endeavours.

Bruce.