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Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: GBrown #8092 on June 13, 2010, 11:08:09 PM

Title: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: GBrown #8092 on June 13, 2010, 11:08:09 PM
Does anyone know of its current whereabouts.

I received a call as I am want to, from the person who currently owns the leopard jacket worn by the model in the Feb 13, 1950 Life magazine article about the car. She is trying to find out if the car still exists and if the owner might be interested in having the jacket.

Given that the car was basically a custom paint job and interior on what appeared to be a fairly stock car, I'd guess its unlikely but with 11,000 sets of eyes, maybe someone has seen it somewhere

Glenn L. Brown
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Tim Pawl CLC#4383 on June 14, 2010, 10:14:24 AM
In the late 1970's  (1978 or 1979)  I remember going to look at an early 1950's Cadillac convertible near West Grand Boulevard in Detroit not far from the Clark Ave Plant. The old guy who owned the car said he was a retired Cadillac employee.  The car was in a delapitated garage where it had obviously been sitting for a number of years.  I remember the tailights being severly deformed from heat.  The car was yellow with a leopard skin style seat cover that were tattered.  I passed on buying the car.  A couple of years later I read about the Debutante........to this day I wonder if it was the same car.  I once went back to the area (having long lost the address) and could not even find anything that looked like the house I had been at.    Someone may have bought it and still has it , or it may have been scrapped.  Not knowing if that was the real Debutante has haunted me,  as "the one that got away".   
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Charles D. Barnette on June 14, 2010, 04:04:34 PM
Dear Glenn, is the person willing to do the next best thing and that is to donate the coat to the CLC Museum? Plus a story and pictures of the event. Charles
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: David Temple on June 14, 2010, 04:28:29 PM
There is certainly a chance that the car still exists. However, there is a good chance that if it does its identity as the Debutante has been lost. Someone who bought it in the late 1970s may have thought it a customized car. Today the car would perhaps be restored to the look of a regular production Cadillac. I encourage all CLC members owning a 1950 Cadillac convertible to check the ID plates of their car. Look for an "S.O." (shop order) tag. The Debutante would have had a relatively low serial number, too. The car was exhibited at the GM Mid-Century Motorama in January 1950, so it had to have been built early in the model year. Having the car is obviously a long shot, but how much effort is involved in looking at the VIN plate?
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on June 14, 2010, 04:58:12 PM
Several things might have happened.
The car might have been pre-production & scrapped by GM.
They might have put a standard interior in it & sold it to an employee. 
Also, SO does NOT mean shop order, it means special order.
There is no VIN plate on a 1950 Cadillac.
It would be great if the car still exists, but the odds are against it.
Bob
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Otto Skorzeny on June 14, 2010, 05:26:16 PM
Is that paint or chrome/gold along the window sill?
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Charles D. Barnette on June 14, 2010, 05:38:17 PM
After looking at SouthPaw's post, I am convinced now more than ever that if the car can't be found, the coat or jacket should be obtained for our museum! Charles
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: David Temple on June 14, 2010, 08:32:58 PM
Is there any kind of trim tag on the 1950 Cadillacs? My opinion is that Tim Pawl did see the Debutante as it seems unlikely an ex-Cadillac employee would have a '50 convertible with a leopard skin interior and it not be that car. If so, it existed in the late-70s and could still exist today. As for "S.O."... I have seen both "special order" and "shop order" as the meaning for those letters. However, I have seen "shop order" on official GM paperwork so I use "shop order" as its meaning.
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on June 14, 2010, 09:37:02 PM
David,
I & I'm sure others would like to see some documention showing the words "shop order". Could you share that info?
Bob
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: David Temple on June 15, 2010, 10:54:23 AM
Thanks for sharing this. Those ads clearly indicate another possibility as to the identity of the car Tim Pawl saw. A recollection of the gold-plated hardware and the "Tawny Yellow Buff" paint color by him , though, would seemingly be very strong evidence the car he saw was indeed the Debutante.
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: David Temple on June 15, 2010, 12:13:43 PM
I never expected to have to defend the use of the phrase, "shop order," but will do my best with five-year old memories. (Bob, what is your source for the meaning, "special order?") If I recall correctly, the sources of that phrase appeared on photocopies of work orders issued to GM Photographic to photograph various versions of the 1954 Oldsmobile F-88s as well as to photograph what I believe were minor alterations to the 1954 Buick Landau and the 1954 Buick Wildcat II. Copies of these work orders (along with a ton of photographs) were loaned to me in 2004 or 2005 by Steve Wolken, a retired GM employee and CLC member. At that time I was writing the book, "GM's Motorama." If those copies were not my original source of "shop order" then, unfortunately, I do not recall the source - at least not at this time. The phrase was completely unknown to me until conducting research for this book. The first time I saw "S.O." numbers in any documentation I expected the abbreviation to mean, "special order," so there was some surprise in discovering the phrase, "shop order." I scanned many of the copies of the aforementioned work orders, but a computer crash in January 2006 (the evening of the 9th to be exact) apparently eliminated those scans. Fortunately, I had extracted the details needed from them and of course backed up the narrative and photo files specific to the book. Furthermore, I believe the phrase in question appears somewhere on the website, http://www.carofthecentury.com/ which is quite extensive and was put together by the grandson of GM's first vice president of GM Styling, Harley Earl. Again, that is all strictly from memory and I could spend hours trying to retrace my research to find the "smoking gun" evidence for "shop order," but will leave that search to others. My interest in this topic is for all CLC members who have access to a 1950 Cadillac convertible is to check whatever ID plates are on these cars (trim tag on the cowl?) to see if there is anything unusual noted on them. My guess is that on the Debutante, such a tag would have had some atypical coding. An "S.O." tag was likely attached to that car. (My experience on this is direct observation of the 1954 Buick Landau.) My assumption is that if this car exists, it got a repaint in a standard color and reupholstered in a standard and matching material long ago. I imagine a lot of people were unfamiliar with the Debutante by the late 1970s and at first sight would reasonably have expected it to have been a car customized by a private individual - not a GM show car. (There is some precedence for this hypothesis. Reportedly, the 1955 Chevrolet Bel Air built as GM's 50-millionth car, still exists. Its history was lost and only discovered by pure luck. That car was in a shop on the east coast and was to be converted into a race car - wheel wells cut out, etc. Someone who had a '55 Bel Air as a restoration project found the car it in this shop before that process began and decided it was in better shape than his current project. A trade was arranged. The restorer later started disassembling the car, stripping paint, etc. and kept finding unusual features long hidden. The owner contacted a source within GM, provided the car's serial number, and learned the historic significance of that Chevy.) Maybe the car Tim Pawl saw was the Debutante or maybe it had one of those leopard skin interior kits mentioned earlier in this thread. Regardless, the Debutante probably was not scrapped by GM as at that time they were not quite so fearful of letting such cars get into the hands or private owners. Such concerns began to arise a few years later, though.
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Tim Pawl CLC#4383 on June 15, 2010, 12:24:40 PM
Thanks for posting the photo of the interior.  Looking at the photo it appears that the lower seat cushions are leather rather than leopard. My recollection is the full seat in the car I saw was leopard,  or perhaps the bottom cushion was black.  Previous photos I had seen never showed the lower seat cushion.  I do not remember seeing any amount of gold trim like in the photo.  My recollection of the interior being tattered was more like a fabric rather than a fur.  Does anyone now how Leopard skin ages?   Somewhere I remember reading that the skins of 32 leopards were used on the interior...can anyone verify that number?  The color of the car was a similar yellow.  I would call it "Post-It Note" yellow.  It certainly would be great if it was still out there.  Tim Pawl  
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Tim Pawl CLC#4383 on June 15, 2010, 12:38:03 PM
The advertisement for the car was in a Sunday edition of either the Detroit News, or Detroit Free Press. Someone has suggested going back and looking at microfilms of the Sunday want-ads for that period of time, and tracing the phone number. Does anyone know if the want ads in newspapers were microfilmed or archived.?
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Charles D. Barnette on June 15, 2010, 02:41:25 PM
I would point out that the ad in question does describe a "Coupe" not a "Convertible". Charles
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: okccadman on June 15, 2010, 02:59:05 PM
Tim, I know our library keeps entire newspapers on microfilm, including the classifieds.  I foiund a great deal from 1957 on a 1953 Eldorado for $3950.
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: David Temple on June 15, 2010, 03:48:19 PM
The microfilmed newspapers I have viewed all included the classified ads. If you find the phone number for the ad you can then reference an old city directory to match it with an address.
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: David Temple on June 15, 2010, 03:55:40 PM
From a GM press release posted on the Cadillac Database...
    "For many years designers have dreamed of creating a most unusually appointed Cadillac, employing rare furs for interior body covering. This dream has become a reality with the long lurking desire culminating in a leopard skin trimmed convertible.

    The selection of leopard skin for this car was most fitting in keeping with the character and tradition of Cadillac automobiles. Throughout the centuries a particular distinction has been attached to the use of these skins as raiment or in adorning living quarters.

    Among many tribes the leopard is regarded with such awe that even the mention of the name is tabu and the skins may be worn only by the supreme chief - as the "Ingwe" or leopard has had a quasi-sacred character since its earliest appearance in antiquity.

    As perfect leopard skins are scarce, the greatest obstacle, as pointed out by Don E. Ahrens, Cadillac General Sales Manager, was that of obtaining enough for this undertaking.

    Many months before the car was built a Detroit furrier was commissioned to find the perfect specimens. This quest was fulfilled when he brought the 187 finest skins in the country to his establishment. After a careful examination it was determined that fourteen approached the high quality of this car as closely as could be obtained. Fur experts then studied the skins for many days to arrive at an exact match and perfect laying of each piece.

    The leopard skins covering the upper portion of the front and rear seat backs, the upper side panels, and the complete floor in the front and rear compartments give a sophisticated interpretation of primitive splendor.

    These skins are those of the Somaliland leopard - the largest, most ferocious, and yet the most beautiful species - found only on the East Coast of Africa.

    For an unusual touch, two pieces of leopard tail were used to make the robe cord - and it is easily understandable that a leopard claw should be added to the ignition key ring - a whim of the designer's mood.

    Only the stoic can study this creation without coming under the spell of its primitive beauty.

    So perfectly have these skins been prepared that it requires little imagination to vision a leopard gliding cat-like through his native haunts - the smooth flowing, muscular ripple belying the tremendous power of the predatory beast.

    The quiet repose of the leopard skins on the car flatter masculine ego and the thought of being surrounded by the gorgeous luxury of the rosette studded skins titillates feminine imagination.

    In brilliant contrast to the rosette studded leopard skins - lower seat backs, cushions, and the covering of the lower sides and door panels is a shimmering, opalescent, gray nylon satin.

    The armrests are covered with iridiscent gray leather. The note of luxury set by the lavish use of rare furs is further highlighted by the richness of the interior appointments. Every interior, unpainted metal surface is gold plated. No detail has been overlooked, even the ignition key and key chain are in gold finish.

    Typically Cadillac in that no detail has been overlooked, the debutante's every desire is lavishly provided for in this aptly named car. A cigarette case and memo list are concealed in the left front door panel. While, tucked away in the opposite door is a lipstick and a miniature perfume atomizer [all previewing the future Eldorado Brougham's complement of vanity items ?!?!].

    In Tawny Yellow Buff the exterior of the "Debutante" complements the Rufous Buff color in the leopard skins. In this exterior finish, the pearl luster has been achieved by overlaying the base paint with a sprayed layer of miniature, moon shaped fish scales - these are exceedingly costly, obtained only through a special process that requires dissolving the larger portion of a fish scale leaving only the tiny pearl essence."
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: David Temple on June 15, 2010, 04:00:02 PM
One matter I forgot to address in my previous reply was in regard to how leopard skin ages. I read that leopard skin has little longevity (at least at that time - perhaps there are ways to preserve it now). That would help explain why it was not a production option during that time period.
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Otto Skorzeny on June 15, 2010, 05:14:44 PM
How revolting.

I'm surprised they didn't mount the poor leopard's head on the hood in place of the flying lady.
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on June 15, 2010, 09:42:06 PM
David,
I think you're combining two different car building scenarios. And I think you answered your own question when you're talking about work orders.
I research factory invoices. I like ones for special order cars. That used to be SBO,Special Body Order, but around 1941 it was shortened to SO. I have a 1941 book titled special features for 1941 Cadillacs. Note it dooes NOT say shop features for 1941 Cadillac. All research I've done says special order or special features.
Total custom cars were built in the "shop". They never saw the production line.
Modified production cars like the Debutante & the Buick Landau were built on the production line & diverted to the "shop" at some point. What happened when a car was being built from scratch or was a production car being modified. A work order was also with that car to show what to do & what account # to charge labor & materials. I suppose another name for work order could be shop order.
Now... SO cars on the production line did NOT go to the "shop". If that 41 needed a 38 yellow paint color, or the 59 FW needed a all white leather interior, it all got handled on the line.
What about data plates? Total custom cars don't have them.  I am not sure if the Debutante or like modified cars had a data plate. Someone may want to research that.
HTH, Bob
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: David King (kz78hy) on June 15, 2010, 10:19:36 PM
Glenn,

Al Haas was the one who told me that Robert's Furs here in Detroit was the supplier of the mouton fur carpets in the Brougham's.  It would stand to reason that they might have been also the supplier of the furs for this "special" car and the model's accessories to go with it.  What is the label in the coat? 

I can't image that almost 200 cats were destroyed while only using 14 to create that eye sore in the first place.  I'm no PETA person as rule, but it is this kind of stuff that caused those organizations to start.  At that rate, you might be able to make 20 cars for one year before all the material was extinct.

David

PS  Good luck getting SMS to supply your replacement interior.
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Charles D. Barnette on June 16, 2010, 10:51:17 AM
Bob, this website on Harley Earl seems to support David's position that SO stands for "Shop Order". See www.carofthecentury.com/harley_earl_led_the_way_in_detroit_styling_&_engineering.htm. Interesting that it assigns no SO number to the 1950 Debutante however. Charles-the jacket (if it is genuine) may be the only surviving tangible evidence of the mighty Debutante!. Did I mention yet that the jacket needs to be in our museum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: David Temple on June 16, 2010, 11:53:53 AM
Thanks for the explanation, Bob. After I posted my lengthy reply to your question I recalled, vaguely, the use of the phrase "shop order" elsewhere. It is, as I began to recall, a manufacturing industry term. I asked a friend of mine about this matter. He is an engineer who has worked for various major corporations such as GE and he has confirmed the use of "shop order" within industry. (He really knows industry acronyms!) A requisition could generate a shop order or a purchase order depending upon if the item was made in-house or outside was an example he gave.
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Tim Pawl CLC#4383 on June 16, 2010, 12:35:55 PM
The Mouton carpet Wreath and Crest that was donated to the Cadillac & Lasalle Club Museum and Research Center, by the Sonora Region, from a local AZ Cadillac Dealer, was made by Ceresny & Offen Furs of Birmingham, Michigan.  I don't remember if they were somehow related to Roberts Furs of Detroit. I went and interviewed the son of the maker and he remembered when the wreath and crests were made. Verifying that they made them.  He still works at the furrier. More trivia for digestion as to the source of the leopard skins. I am not sure that anyone would admit to such a "harvest".
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Tim Pawl CLC#4383 on June 16, 2010, 03:40:22 PM
Indeed Roberts Furs is now associated with Ceresny & Offen Furs.
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on June 16, 2010, 09:21:46 PM
David & Charles,
Thanks for your replies.
I know what a shop order is. I was in manufacturing for years.
As far as the Earl report, who wrote it & where did he come up with SO meanig shop order?
Could it be that was his own idea of what those letters stood for. There's LOTS of bad info out there generated by people that make unilateral decisions.
It just doesn't make sense to say I've got a shop order interior or paint.
And again my 41 Special Features Book doesn't say shop features.
Just checked my 68 & 70 data books. Both have special order sections. No shop order sections.
Bob
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: David King (kz78hy) on June 16, 2010, 09:59:50 PM
Guys,

SO could mean both.  There were several acronyms used inside GM that were the same letters but meant different things.  I would bet that SO on a body tag meant special order, internal paper work could mean something else.

David
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on June 16, 2010, 10:02:48 PM
Thank you, David King.
Bob
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: okccadman on June 16, 2010, 10:50:45 PM
On my 56 Fleetwood, The SO number on the cowl tag is the body number,  Body 6721  and trim SO 6721.  Its a Red and White car with full red and white leater, sabres, eldo engine and mats and all other options.
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: David King (kz78hy) on June 16, 2010, 11:05:09 PM
Here is an example of a very special car w/SO on the body tag, trim only, even though the body was special as well.

These photos are from the Gillmore Museum on a visit last year.  The 3 photos tell the tale, to bad I did not feel bold enough to move the wires out of the way to photo the tag, and they let us pretty much do want we wanted while looking at this car.

David

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh5.ggpht.com%2F_SuHaRG4eFas%2FTBmLiGOnCbI%2FAAAAAAAAECs%2FLhUjonDoS78%2Fs800%2FDSCN9971.JPG&hash=859de545ee62d034efd49b9958473d485aa78d33)

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh6.ggpht.com%2F_SuHaRG4eFas%2FTBmLhPY4OJI%2FAAAAAAAAECo%2FOZX2XJByNZw%2Fs800%2FDSCN9975.JPG&hash=247f3f26d4874a29e1ff889e18a131afad7bf37c)

(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh5.ggpht.com%2F_SuHaRG4eFas%2FTBmLimS5DcI%2FAAAAAAAAECw%2FH6zJ9r8jm8g%2Fs800%2FDSCN9989.JPG&hash=09558b8c7f92c39335307ce0b2f79f5321fec9e5)
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on June 17, 2010, 12:01:11 AM
David King,
There is a perfect example of a SO,special order, that could have turned into a SO, shop order.  That's because it actually went to the "shop".
Bob
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: GBrown #8092 on June 20, 2010, 03:48:06 PM
Thank you for all the feedback on this topic.
Ain't this a great Club!

Based on our conversation she's  sure she has the documentation to back up her claim.
The coat also has the name of the model sewn in it. One thing you can't see from the picture is the head is a part of the coat, I believe over the left shoulder.

I'll let her know what we have, and have not found

Thanks all

Glenn
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: veesixteen on June 21, 2010, 06:37:01 AM
Most of the info exchanged here about the "Debutante"  is included in the Cadillac Database "Dream Cars" section for 1950-51:  http://cadillacdb.planeteldorado.com/Dbas_txt/Drm50-51.htm.
Earlier this year I added some pics to that entry, borrowed from the LIFE magazine article.  David, I too am interested in where you saw the "SO" abbrevation translated as "shop order."  In 55 years of perusing Cadillac literature, I don't recall ever having seen that "spelling."  I would not rely too much on Richard Earl's memory of such things; he has indeed created a nice site to honor the work of his grandftaher, Harley J., but I have noticed some errors and inconsistencies therein.
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: David Temple on June 21, 2010, 03:30:01 PM
Yes, I am sure there are errors on the Mr. Earl's website. There are errors on the "Database." Perfection is very seldom achieved in any endeavor. However, both websites seem largely correct; some errors do not eliminate the credibility of their creators. I doubt Richard Earl is relying upon his memory of what "SO" means. There is no particular reason of which I am aware he would even know without having some source. I did not know the meaning when I first saw "SO." My guess was "special order" but I did not want to rely upon a guess. There was something in print which convinced me SO stood for "shop order." Did "SO" mean shop order in all cases. Seemingly, no. My main point appears to be completely overlooked as a result of interest in the "SO" controversy. The Debutante likely had an "SO" tag in at least one location. If the car still exists, the tag/tags is/are probably still attached to it. Such an ID along with the trim tag would be the first clues as to the identity of that car as I do not expect it to still have its special paint and upholstery unless it continues to exist in a dilapidated condition.
Title: Re: Shop Order v. Special Order
Post by: Charles D. Barnette on July 07, 2010, 04:53:28 PM
A friend of mine from the Buick site has sent me pictures of the original GM body tag plates of a 1955 Buick 4 door hardtop that was displayed at the 1955 Motorama. This is irrefutable proof that GM did use the term "Shop Order" for its show cars. Carla will post pictures of the body tag plates in the next post. Charles
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Otto Skorzeny on July 07, 2010, 04:54:26 PM
Oooh, the plot thickens!
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Carla on July 07, 2010, 04:58:12 PM
Here are the tags. 
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on July 07, 2010, 09:52:06 PM
Charles/ Carla,
Thanks for posting the pics. It does show many things.
#1 Cars built for shows had body tags.
#2 The tags are NOT production tags.
#3 They do say shop order, but they don't say SO= shop order either.
#4 I don't know what the car looks like so I can't say if any part of it was built on the production line.
#5 I feel that for example, the Debutante & the 54 Buick landau  were built on the line & then sent to the "shop" for modification.
#6 What did their tags show?
#7 Whatever SO stands for, there is a big difference between paint & upholstery mods done on the line & major work  done   in the "shop" for shows.
So... I'm sticking with my  SO ideas until someone can prove otherwise.


Also, Lou, You gotta lose that fur fetish! LOL
Bob
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Dave Ventresca on July 08, 2010, 12:12:45 AM
South Paw, what is IMO?
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Glen on July 08, 2010, 12:47:15 AM
QuoteSouth Paw, what is IMO?

In My Opinion
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: Jim Stamper on July 08, 2010, 03:31:46 PM

     My former 37 LaSalle convertible sedan had "SO" and a number on the body tag.  I was hopeful that meant it was specially ordered for someone famous. The report from Cadillac came back saying it meant "special order, side mount delete"  For fun I will say it might have meant "side mount omission"
Title: Re: 1950 Cadillac Debutante
Post by: R E Coker on July 10, 2010, 11:44:12 AM
Here are the Buick Landau cowl tags.

Bob