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To restore or not?

Started by Roger Zimmermann, January 27, 2008, 07:23:39 AM

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Roger Zimmermann

Parallel to the assembly and body prepair, there were many things to organize, go to the plater, discuss with the man doing the upholstery and repairing what people sold me as "like new" parts. One good example is the front bow. The one on the car was full of holes; I looked for a good one. I got an offer from a very well known convertible parts supplier; according to him, it was really like new, ready to install. OK, deal done, let ship that marvel!
When it came, the front bow was indeed very gook looking. Ah! at least something I can store until it's needed. However, when I was looking at the part, I heard some strange noises inside. By shaking it, it was clear: this thing was repaired and bondo was traveling inside. What do do? well, have a look "under the rock" which means: I began to scratch the paint to see what was under. It was not nice: bondo over the rust. The whole part was maybe a little better than the one I had already, but not much. What next? I separated the halves and I began to weld patches...then sandblasted, paint of the inside and welded again. As I was at this work, I repaired the bow which was on the car; I sold it later, but I was confident that my work was first quality, not like the one I bought. By the way, this supplier is since "dead" for me.
The pictures are sowing the "like new" bow.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Roger Zimmermann

The "car" was delivered to me without the hard boot. By chance, I could find one in good shape. New paint was needed and the leather on the side was no more good. I had to think how to attach it again to the plastic part; I found a solution with small screws. If needed, I can take the leather away without problem.
The hard boot was repainted by the body shop, I did not the work myself.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Roger Zimmermann

Another great day: the car is coming out of the garage under its own power! I had many trouble the day I started the engine, all created by myself...I believe an observer that day would have see a funny cartoon:
the engine is starting, fine! I go under the hood and ran back to stop the engine: fuel is coming out the carbs! the screws from the airhorn were loose, I had forgoten to tighten them...
New start: Oh my god! there is no oil in the transmission! OK, some liters after, I start the engine again. After a while, I see a lake of oil under the engine! What was wrong this time? Oh shit! I forgot to tighten the lid of the oil filter...At least, I'm now sure that oil is coming there!
Then, the engine ran good, without too much problem. They would come later. Stay tuned!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Roger Zimmermann

It would be time to discuss a little bit about chrome...The subject was already scratched with the Sabre wheels; however, such a vehicle is generous with chrome. You may imagine that chromed parts were not in good shape on this car. I had to replace many of them; for example, the center bar of the rear bumper was not bad looking; once removed, I saw that it was eaten by the rust behind the small bumper guards. The pot metal parts were in a desolate shape, badly pitted.
At that time, there was an advertiser in Hemmings who claimed he can restore such parts. During a vacation in Florida, I took many parts with me (next to the brake booster) and we paid a visit to that company. I left some money there and all the parts...
A friend of us, located in Florida was also involved with the shipping of the parts back to Switzerland.
Most of the parts were good, some were not. Something surprised me: the parts were much heavier as before. When I tried to assemble chromed parts together, like the fake air inlets on the quarter panel, they would not fit anymore. The teeth on those parts had also a drop at their ends, they were not usable as is. Then, I began to have a good look at the back side of that specific part and I noted that I could peel the "chrome". Then I understood the "secret" of that job: when received, the chrome is electrolytically removed; the copper plating stay untouched. Then the parts are sprayed or dipped in a conductive primer; they are probably sanded after that to have a regular surface. Then they get a very thick layer of copper which is polished and then chromed. All those layers add thickness to each part and the copper add the weight. I measured the thickness of the copper: 0.3mm (appr. 0.012") The first layer is almost as thick, so each surface is about 0.5 mm thicker (0.02")! No wonder that they cannot fit together! A part alone on the body is absolutely not a problem, but when 2 chromed parts have to be assembled together, you have to find a solution. I began to grind the back of my new chromed parts, removed the extra material until Tehy would fit. Some parts were not good: as mentioned before, the "teeth" parts on the side were grotesk, either I bought other ones or I peeled the chrome/copper. The instrument body was also not good. I did also a strip-tease of that part. Then, on all parts which were now as bad as before, I began to remove the original cooper by sanding as well as a little bit of pot metal until the surface was smooth. Then, I gave them to a Swiss plater who did the polishing and plating.
One part on the car was broken: one of the molding on top of the rear fenders. Despicte intensive search, I could not find such a part. (Some years ago, a welding technique was developped for pot metal, but it was too late) What to do? As I did for the Brougham for a missing part, I took contact with a small foundry. They told me that if they take the broken part "as is" there will be a shrinkage and the part will not fit on the body. I had to cut the molding at the elbow and increase the lenght at each half (were it was cut) with bondo. To reduce the costs, I ordered 6 or 8 pairs; I could sell some; I still have one pair in case...
Once cast in bronze, the parts had to be brazed together, adjusted to the body, filed, sanded, machined and...plated. The result is very good. I had an original part plated in Florida; as it would not fit the way I liked, I used another part of my creation. The original part is still on stock, ready to sell!
Both pictures below are showing the bronze parts machined, but before their surface is smoothed.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Roger Zimmermann

As I wrote, I still have an original tail molding:
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Roger Zimmermann

At the end of august 1998, the car was ready to go to the paint shop. They had an hard time to improve the surfaces. Of course, as it was not urgent, htey did not work on a regular basis on the car.
It came back with the same small truck early November. Now is really looking like a car!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

The Tassie Devil(le)

G'day Roger,

I think you should Publish the whole story, when completed, and I am pretty sure that you would cover costs of printing, and the cost of building the car.    As it would become a Restorers Bible, on what to do, how to go about it, and what not to do.

But, on the subject of Chrome Plating, when one brings old car parts into a Chrome Plating Shop, the Proprietor is rubbing his hands with glee.

You see, when he removes the old Plating from the parts, he gets to keep all the high quality Chrome and then charges the customer for the cost of supplying the new, inferior chrome.

I have just completed rebuilding a '59 Thunderbird, and the poor quality of the work that was done on those pieces really made life difficult.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Roger Zimmermann

Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on February 13, 2008, 05:30:00 AM
G'day Roger,

I think you should Publish the whole story, when completed, and I am pretty sure that you would cover costs of printing, and the cost of building the car.    As it would become a Restorers Bible, on what to do, how to go about it, and what not to do.

But, on the subject of Chrome Plating, when one brings old car parts into a Chrome Plating Shop, the Proprietor is rubbing his hands with glee.

You see, when he removes the old Plating from the parts, he gets to keep all the high quality Chrome and then charges the customer for the cost of supplying the new, inferior chrome.

I have just completed rebuilding a '59 Thunderbird, and the poor quality of the work that was done on those pieces really made life difficult.

Bruce. >:D
Bonjour Bruce!
Well, there are so much books treating the subject that it would be just "one more". Further, I could cover the restoration of the Brougham and the Biarritz; it would be the "bible" just for these 2 models. Sure, body work is body work. Dealing with a plater is the same chore for all makes.
It seems, despicte my bad English that you were interested by that topic (almost done, but not quite); however, writing is not what I prefer to do. Write a book? No, thank you, unless I'm contacted by a publisher who ABSOLUTELY wants such a book!

I have another story about chrome; it was not for the Biarritz, but for the '57 Brougham: on the rear doors, there are large chromed moldings in pot metal. The ones on the car I have were not very good, they had scratches if I remember well. I went to my "favorite" plater with the parts; after some weeks , I came back as they were ready. I had almost a shock: the outer surface was like a see during a storm: full of waves. As I hate confrontation (or maybe because I'm an a...hole), I went home with the scrap. During vacation in California, I visited a man who had 6 or 7 Broughams in various stages of dismanteling. One had fantastic moldings. We agreed on a price, but, as they were still on the car, the man  (another nice crook) had to removed them and ship them along with other parts I could not take with me, like a set of 4 wheels.
When the parts arrived, what a deception...The nice wheels I bought In California for a friend were like scrap and the moldings had a dull chrome, they were not the ones I saw. At least, they were not pitted at all, therefore a good basis for replating.
I went again to the same plater, with the "new" moldings and the ones he did. I asked if he could replate the parts with the same surface quality. He said: NO! An honest answer, with a proposal: he said that he could remove the chrome and then I can prepare the surface the way I like.
Some time after, I went to pick up the dechromed parts and went home. Then the work began. It's very good for the health, it's like body building, with the exception that only the arms are working!
Nevertheless, I could sand the moldings the way I wanted, up to grain 220 and I went back to my friend the plater. He had a look at my work, said OK, I will polish them and plate. Some time later, I could take delivery of the moldings. They were fantastic; they are sill in the same condition now, after many years.
Since that day, when I went to this plater, he did know what I could do and usually the work was done in a better way.
Bruce, unfortunately in the actual world, you have to show people how they have to work...
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

The Tassie Devil(le)

Roger, I know EXACTLY what you mean.

That is why I do ALL my own work, and if I don't know how to do it, I will teach myself.

My philosophy is if someone can do it, then I, with a fair amount of time learning, will be able to accomplish the same, and save myself lots of money.

Bruce. >:D

PS.   But, I am not a painter, yet. 
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Roger Zimmermann

Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on February 13, 2008, 06:42:17 AM

PS.   But, I am not a painter, yet. 
Bruce, I only paint parts like frames, suspension components, small parts like the firewall of the Biarritz. I could certainly do a complete car; unfortunately, to have excellent results, you need some equipment: water to sand (I don't have water in my barn) and a dust free space with ventilation. As my experiences with the paint shop were not bad, I did not see why I should change my procedure. It can be different in another town/country.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Fred Zwicker #23106

 :D  My father used to say, "You can do anything if you have the tools and know how".  (Think about this - it is true).
1930 LaSalle Convertible Coupe, CCCA Senior
1939 LaSalle 2-Dr. Conv.  CLC Senior in 2008
1940 Cadillac Series 75 4 Dr. Convertible
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1948 Cadillac Convertible - modified by Holly (driver)
1966 Cadillac DeVille Conv. Restored - Red
See Pictures at www.tpcarcollection.com

Roger Zimmermann

It's easy to understand that this topic is coming to an end. However, there are some more pictures I would like to show. Unfortunately, my main computer had a crash 3 days ago; this message is done on an old laptop.
It seems that I got a virus from a link from this forum!
I hope to show you the last pictures soon.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

The Tassie Devil(le)

Roger,

We are all waiting with baited breath.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Roger Zimmermann

My computer is back! In fact, it was a hard disk crash. Not funny. Fortunately, most of my documents could be recoverd. I know, I should do back-up from time to time...
The assembly of the fresh painted body was not done in a few days. Anyway, the difficulties were overcome and in June 2000 I did the first test drive. Oh, not too far away: the car was not yet complete and it was not licensed. I took again a risk: I installed the license plates from my other Cadillacs. In case of a police control, he would have read "Cadillac" on the papers and it was a Cadillac! Maybe it would not have been so easy in case of an accident as VINs are compared with the paperwork. Anyway, the region I'm located is rural and traffic not important.
That day, I did some picture I don't find anymore with one exception. You will see that the roof is closed, but the soft material not yet installed. The installation of that roof was a story for itself: the man who did the seats and other trim parts did also the installation of the roof. He did it during wintertime, with a too low temperature. Therefore, he could not stretch the rear window; its appearance was awfull. The rest of the top was not bad but, for one reason, the man was not satisfied and he began to remove it at the front bow. And, what happened? He damaged it! He apologized and said he would replace the material at his own expenses. OK, I ordered another roof. When the roof arrived, the man began again its assembly. At the back of the body, the trim stick is assembled with screws. At one place only, a shorter screw must be used and the man managed to use a long one. Result: the screw damaged the rear fender/paint. This last event, added to the other ones he created turned me creasy. I  took back from him the key of the garage and sent the man home. At that point, I decided to install the top myself. It is a chore, but it can be done!
By the way, because of the mishappen of the man, both rear fenders had to be repainted...
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Roger Zimmermann

#74
The joy of the computer! The engine picture had to be rescanned. Her it is, with a picture from the inside.

I just wanted to remove the title of the picture and bang! the whole message disappeared! The previous message (the one which is gone) explained the many trouble I had with the engine. When it was cold or just warm, no problem. I could drive a long distance, as long as the speed was high enough. If I wanted to restart the engine after one hour, he would come immediately, but he had no power. One day, he even stalled while driving at about 50 miles/hour!
I believed that it was vapor lock and all my efforts to solve the problem were made in that direction. I even let install an electric fuel pump, without much improvement. 2 of my friends owning '56 Eldorados had no problem with them; I had myself no difficulties with my '56 Sedan de Ville; just this damned Biarritz was a nightmare.
In 2006, I had enough. I asked a garage in the region if they would help me to find a solution. as they deal mostly with Packards, I waas sure they could help.
At the end, they found taht the intake manifold was sucking false air, the  the new ignition coil was bad as well as the battery! Since the repair, I drove last year a grat distance under a difficult situation without problem. Now, I can really enjoy it!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Roger Zimmermann

Some more pictures of the completed car, top up.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Roger Zimmermann

The last pictures. I hope you enjoyed the story!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

The Tassie Devil(le)

G'day Roger,

Thanks for those, I and lots of others really enjoyed the "Saga" and good to know that the completion was, and still is, being enjoyed by you, and everyone else that opportunity to see it.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Dave Leger CLC #19256

Thank you for sharing this Roger.  I have really enjoyed the story, and she's a beautiful car!

Dave
Dave Leger     1947 6207 Club Coupe

PHIL WHYTE CLC 14192

Fantastic, I'm envious !!! Im just nearing completion on my 54 CDV , I drove it to a show last summer when it still needed parts fitted to it, but it will be complete this year, I'm proud of the job I've done [using the authenticity manual] , but I have to admit - you have me beat !
Phil