1969 Presidentail

[T.Klak]

Hi guys,
Nice car.
I think it's a Fleetwood Sixty Special with added footrests.
(If i see it right, it doesn't have the 60/40 seat, that the Brougham came with first for 69.)

M stands for Fleetwood Sixty Special (Style No. is 68069)
P stands for Fleetwood Brougham (Style No. is 68169)

Brougham features for 69: Vinyl roof, 60/40seats, adjustable reading lights in the back

the Name "Fleetwood Sixty Special Brougham" was used for the models starting in 71,
after they dropped the Fleetwood Sixty Special in 1970.

Thanks. Love the Fleetwoods!

T. Klak

[936CD69]

Mr Klak is correct, M is a Sixty Special. Much more rare than a Brougham, and in my opinion more desirable! 2545 Sixty specials built in 69, 17,300 Broughams

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Did they use the Brougham style seat when leather was ordered then?

Here are the seat styles for Sixty Special and Brougham.

[Louis Smith]

If had two less doors and was 10 years older, you bet!!

Heck, I'd even overlook the 4 door part if I could still have it be 10 years older. 

Get it now, and store it for ten years 

[Bill Norris]

Not sure what you GM guys call it, but there is like a dataplate under the driver's side hood hinge. Would that give any clue as to what it is? There is no way I could get my noggin under there to read it. I shoved the camera there, but it was too close and it came out blury. I might try tracing it with a pencil if you think that might be helpful.

Bill

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Mr Klak is correct, M is a Sixty Special. Much more rare than a Brougham, and in my opinion more desirable! 2545 Sixty specials built in 69, 17,300 Broughams

You're right Craig, M is 60 Special; P for Brougham. Just can't figure out those seats!

The car should not have footrests; yet it does- which of course, could've been added. If the thing has those round reading lights in the back- then I'll be totally confused.

[Walter Youshock]

It looks as though the seat designs were the same for the 60 Special and Brougham.  The map pockets were being considered for the Brougham option but never went into production.  I was thinking of Roy Schneider's "Cadillac of the Sixties" book with the photo of them.  The Brougham option included the vinyl top, the rear seat reading lamps with "Brougham" on the chrome panel and the footrests.  A far cry from the '66-'67 Brougham option.

As for it being a funeral home car, the 60 Special makes even more sense.  Still a Fleetwood but a bit less expensive and ostentatious than a Brougham.  The footrests may have been added by the dealer.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Not sure what you GM guys call it, but there is like a dataplate under the driver's side hood hinge. Would that give any clue as to what it is? There is no way I could get my noggin under there to read it. I shoved the camera there, but it was too close and it came out blury. I might try tracing it with a pencil if you think that might be helpful.

Bill

The M eliminates the need for that but if you want to double check, the body style # should be 68069 for 60 Special.

[Bill Norris]

I have a feeling she might have the original bill of sale- he was the kind of persont that would keep something like that. I'll see if she can find it. Maybe that will help to see if the foot rests were installed at the dealer.

Bill

[T.Klak]

Brougham seats in 1969 mean 60/40 seat with foot rests

Sixty Special had a bench seat, 60/40 was optional

Both styling types shown in the brochure - three pillow or two pillow with sewn ornamentry - were available for the Brougham and the Sixty Special.
All leather is always the three pillow design.

From the 69 Data Book:
Sixty Special:
UPHOLSTERY STYLING   
Distinctive three horizontal pillow and button styling in handsome Devereaux or Dumont cloth inserts with leather characterizes the Fleetwood Sixty Special interior.
Beautifully rugged Sierra grain leather in this same style is available at extra charge.
Dubonnet cloth upholstery selections are superbly tailored in two horizontal pillow and button style with an attractive geometric design sewn in the seat cushion and seat back by the pique stitch method, and accented by buttons at each corner. Devereaux cloth has a large, ornate tapestry weave appearance for a truly luxurious feel and look.
Dumont cloth has a stately, masculine cord weave appearance while Dubonnet cloth has a two-tone appearance achieved through a trico knit weave.

Brougham:
UPHOLSTERY STYLING.   
Three horizontal pillow and button styling in sumptuous Devereaux or Dumont cloth inserts with leather reflects the plush interior of the Fleetwood Brougham.
Beautifully rugged Sierra grain leather in this same style is available at extra charge.
Dubonnet cloth upholstery selections are superbly tailored in two horizontal pillow and button style with an attractive geometric design sewn in the seat cushion and seat back by the pique stitch method, and accented by buttons at each comer. Devereaux cloth has a large, ornate tapestry weave appearance for a truly luxurious feel and look. Dumont cloth has a stately, masculine cord weave appearance while Dubonnet cloth has a two-tone appearance achieved through a trico knit weave.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

That was very helpful.

The original sales literature had implied certain upholstery décor as being specific to one model or the other but evidently this was not the case. Learned something new today. 

[rwchatham CLC 21892]

Nada has the value listed at

High retail                10,500
Average retail            7,625
low retail                    4,550

[Louis Smith]

Nada has the value listed at

High retail                10,500
Average retail            7,625
low retail                    4,550

What I guessed LOL

Ah the eternal question "what is it worth".  I can say with complete certainty, it is worth what the buyer is willing to pay and what the seller is willing to take.  Not trying to be sarcastic, but that is what it really boils down to.  The owners are always trying to get as much as they can, and the buyer is trying to get it as cheap as possible.  You can be sure that once it goes on sale, you will meet prospective buyers that will go over it with a fine tooth comb, and discover things you would never think of.  My best guesstimate would be in the $5,000 - $10,000 range.  If nothing else get a good battery, and take it out for a short "evaluation" run.  Check all options.  Nothing more embarrassing then showing the car and things aren't they way you thought they were.

[Bill Norris]

I'm really surprised these cars aren't worth that much. That's too bad.

Bill

[Louis Smith]

I'm really surprised these cars aren't worth that much. That's too bad.

Bill

The classic car market place is a very strange place.  There is no rhyme or reason, why cars cost as little or as much as they do.  You would think that a big Cadillac almost 45 years would bring in a pretty penny.  Fortunately not so.  Fortunately for those of us that still appreciate the land yachts of the past, and are able to afford many of them!  Dare I mention that part of the problem is that, while most people love to look at them, very few are willing to separate the necessary funds to acquire one.

[pinkcaddy96]

If I could purchase this presidential for $5000, I would do so without hesitation.  I would baby this car for the rest of my life and pass it on to my grandson who would do the same.  Cars like this are once in a lifetime....period. If is available around 5 grand, by all means let me know.  I would not even inspect it.

[Louis Smith]

If I could purchase this presidential for $5000, I would do so without hesitation.  I would baby this car for the rest of my life and pass it on to my grandson who would do the same.  Cars like this are once in a lifetime....period. If is available around 5 grand, by all means let me know.  I would not even inspect it.

Pursue this car.  If possible go see the owner with CASH in hand.  Funny how some times the sight of money makes a deal more negotiable. 

[cadillacmike68]

The M clearly makes this a Fleetwood 60 Special.

P was for Broughams, which was an option package in 1965, but got its own model designator in 1966, not 1969.

The 60 special was still in the lineup in 1970, but it was dropped for the 1971 model year. That said, I like to refer to my old (RIP) 1970 as a "Fleetwood Sixty Special Brougham" 

Hi guys,
Nice car.
I think it's a Fleetwood Sixty Special with added footrests.
(If i see it right, it doesn't have the 60/40 seat, that the Brougham came with first for 69.)

M stands for Fleetwood Sixty Special (Style No. is 68069)
P stands for Fleetwood Brougham (Style No. is 68169)

Brougham features for 69: Vinyl roof, 60/40seats, adjustable reading lights in the back

the Name "Fleetwood Sixty Special Brougham" was used for the models starting in 71,
after they dropped the Fleetwood Sixty Special in 1970.

Thanks. Love the Fleetwoods!

T. Klak

[T.Klak]

Posted by: cadillacmike68
« on: Today at 01:35:18 AM »

  P was for Broughams, which was an option package in 1965, but got its own model designator in 1966, not 1969.


I know.
But 60/40 seats were a Brougham first feature for 1969, that's what i tried to say.
Thanks and greetings from Germany (way too cold here for April)

[cadillacmike68]

Posted by: cadillacmike68
« on: Today at 01:35:18 AM »

  P was for Broughams, which was an option package in 1965, but got its own model designator in 1966, not 1969.


I know.
But 60/40 seats were a Brougham first feature for 1969, that's what i tried to say.
Thanks and greetings from Germany (way too cold here for April)

Wanna trade places? I'm in the desert!!!

I'd have to look up the seats. yes Broughams had the split front seat first introduced in 1969. I do not know if it was an option on the Sixty special.

there is a now defunct web site, fleetwood75.net, a Dutch site, that had every page of Cadillac brochures from 1958 to 1975, and had production numbers and MSRP base and options prices for all these years.  It had all the engines from 58-75 as well, and some actual brochure scans as well. It was a great site.

Anyone else remember that site? It had a big black 1968 Fleetwood 75 as its front page, and I think it was hosted by a group called cruise brothers, a car club in the Netherlands.

I printed out and have in a binder, ALL the pages from that site.  Wish I had then made into PDFs, I can still do that but they would be B&W scans from my printouts.