1969 DeVille Convertible Project

[DeVille68]

Those are called "Harness Strap".
Check out restoration spcialties
http://www.restorationspecialties.com/search.asp?keyword=harness+strap

Best regards,
Nicolas

[MikeLawson]

You can also find similar plastic harness straps on Ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12-pcs-Buick-Cadillac-Chevy-battery-cable-wiring-harness-wire-straps-2-3-4-long/192295159421?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

I purchased these and they are pretty close to the originals. Note that they are available in various lengths.

[sturner50502]

Those are called "Harness Strap".
Check out restoration spcialties
http://www.restorationspecialties.com/search.asp?keyword=harness+strap

Best regards,
Nicolas

Thank you Nicolas. Once again, the CLC community comes through!

[sturner50502]

You can also find similar plastic harness straps on Ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12-pcs-Buick-Cadillac-Chevy-battery-cable-wiring-harness-wire-straps-2-3-4-long/192295159421?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

I purchased these and they are pretty close to the originals. Note that they are available in various lengths.

Thank you Mike! I would never have paid attention to the length. This forum is awesome. Guys like you and Nicolas are the reason for the forums success.

[sturner50502]

Spark Plug Inspection

Hello all,

Over the past couple of days I have been prepping the engine to try and get it started (still haven't installed my seats). As you guys know, I pulled the valve covers already (see previous post), I drained the oil and changed the oil filter. I also drained the coolant (probably less than a gallon drained out); I got new plugs, wires, cap and rotor, and a new coil which will be installed prior to the start up attempt. Just trying to eliminate the things that could prevent it from starting. So, I decided to pull the plugs and inspect each one, to see if I could get any indication of the condition of the engine.

The plug from cylinder #5 had some green residue on the  electrode (tip) and reddish oil looking substance on the base of the threads (See photo). This was the only plug with this residue. My first thought was: the green substance is a result of coolant in the cylinder.

So,  can anyone provide any insight as to what you think this might be? I'd like your thoughts on the green substance, the reddish substance, and any advice or information you can provide. If you need more information, please ask. I welcome your questions. I'm interested to learn from all of you, who I'm sure has much more experience than I have.

Thanks to everyone...

[James Landi]

SO, I'll go first, since I sent you some advice about coolant leaks.  IF that plug is the worse of all of them, I'd say that you're in a good position to attempt to start the engine.  You've received advice regarding oil circulation, and the valve train looks to be in reasonable condition, and you indicated that the engine turns freely.  Since you have the plugs out,  consider putting a few tablespoons of Marvel oil down each cylinder, and  before you do some cranking I'd want to know about the condition of the fuel in the tank. Can you pump out the tank?  What is the condition of the fuel in there. If you want to skip this tedious check and lengthy fix, I suggest you get a small fuel tank with fresh gas. Once you start cranking the starter, all of the accumulated junk at the bottom of the tank will go to you carburetor.  Ugh!  With fresh fuel in an auxillary tank and with the plugs out, I'd crank-- you're coating the combustion chambers, your checking the carb for fuel by pumping and
engaging the traffic pump... if you're fortunate, you'll see squirts of gas.  You can also be checking for ignition spark while you're cranking.  Needless to say, be careful.  If you've fuel squirting, and strong ignition spark, you're in a good position to CAREFULLY start the engine,  (NEVER RACE A COLD MOTOR)  James

[sturner50502]

SO, I'll go first, since I sent you some advice about coolant leaks.  IF that plug is the worse of all of them, I'd say that you're in a good position to attempt to start the engine.  You've received advice regarding oil circulation, and the valve train looks to be in reasonable condition, and you indicated that the engine turns freely.  Since you have the plugs out,  consider putting a few tablespoons of Marvel oil down each cylinder, and  before you do some cranking I'd want to know about the condition of the fuel in the tank. Can you pump out the tank?  What is the condition of the fuel in there. If you want to skip this tedious check and lengthy fix, I suggest you get a small fuel tank with fresh gas. Once you start cranking the starter, all of the accumulated junk at the bottom of the tank will go to you carburetor.  Ugh!  With fresh fuel in an auxiliary tank and with the plugs out, I'd crank-- you're coating the combustion chambers, your checking the carb for fuel by pumping and
engaging the traffic pump... if you're fortunate, you'll see squirts of gas.  You can also be checking for ignition spark while you're cranking.  Needless to say, be careful.  If you've fuel squirting, and strong ignition spark, you're in a good position to CAREFULLY start the engine,  (NEVER RACE A COLD MOTOR)  James

Hi James,

Thanks for the info! I bought fogging oil for the cylinders. But since I've been researching, most recommendations say use Marvel Mystery oil, so I will use that.

Regarding the fuel tank, the very first thing I did was replace the tank. After parking it in my garage there was a strong odor of rotten gas. I pulled the tank out and saw it had a couple of holes in it. So It has a new tank, new sending unit and new fuel hoses. Then about a year after I replaced the tank, I cleared the fuel lines. I did this by disconnecting the fuel lines at the tank and the fuel pump, I then blew compressed air from the tank towards the front. When I did this I immediately could smell that rotten gas again, indicating some of the bad fuel was still in the fuel lines. Needless to say, when I attempt the start up, it will have fresh fuel.

That raises another question; Should I rebuild the carburetor before trying to start? With the known history of bad fuel, who knows the condition of the fuel in the carb? Or, is it unnecessary at this stage? Thanks for the feedback.   

[James Landi]

 All great about the gas tank and lines--- Purely my thinking. Cranking may prime the carb, and see if the accelerator pump squirts fuel.  Then, even if it starts and runs poorly, which it likely will, you;ll be further along in your "awaking strategy." And you may be lucky,  I've owned twin engine gasoline powered boats that were not run for several years, and the carbs were fine--- in contrast, I've had several where the carbs were in horrible condition-- Usually, if the traffic pump squirts, that's a positive sign that it will start-- but it may not keep running.  But if it starts, and you can carefully keep it running without racing it, you can check so many potential issues.   James 

[mario]

Steve:
Be aware that the carb body gaskets may be dried out. If so, they might leak, dropping gas on the intake. After starting, if it does, be sure to check that the carb isn't leaking. If it does, shut it off. Do not try to restart. The gaskets will swell from the fresh gas. Check the carb body screws, after a short time, if they need tightening, do so. Then start again. Watch for any leaks. If lucky,  the gaskets will swell up and stop leaking.
Keep an extinguisher nearby, for safety.
Good luck.
Ciao,
Mario Caimotto

[James Landi]

Mario makes an important point-- safety first.  Regarding the green residue on your plug, the consensus is that the cylinder was running hot-- may be a concern once you get the engine running.   All of these anxieties may disappear once you get it running.  These were durable engines, and if yours was not abused, it should start, and then you can diagnosis the next challenges.  In the meantime, we look forward to your observations and progress.   James

[sturner50502]

Mario makes an important point-- safety first.  Regarding the green residue on your plug, the consensus is that the cylinder was running hot-- may be a concern once you get the engine running.   All of these anxieties may disappear once you get it running.  These were durable engines, and if yours was not abused, it should start, and then you can diagnosis the next challenges.  In the meantime, we look forward to your observations and progress.   James

Thanks James, your feedback is very helpful and appreciated. All of this information gives me confidence as I work through this phase. I will certainly provide updates on this forum thread.

[sturner50502]

Steve:
Be aware that the carb body gaskets may be dried out. If so, they might leak, dropping gas on the intake. After starting, if it does, be sure to check that the carb isn't leaking. If it does, shut it off. Do not try to restart. The gaskets will swell from the fresh gas. Check the carb body screws, after a short time, if they need tightening, do so. Then start again. Watch for any leaks. If lucky,  the gaskets will swell up and stop leaking.
Keep an extinguisher nearby, for safety.
Good luck.
Ciao,
Mario Caimotto

Good points Mario. Especially the reminder to have an extinguisher nearby! Thank you

[James Landi]

Another point Steve, since you have the plugs out, you might wish to perform a compression test.  You'll not get a great reading because the engine has not been running for years, and the piston rings may be partially stuck, but with the Marvel oil in, compressing the oil and checking each cylinder may be an efficient way of aiding in the awaking process,before attempting to start it, and in doing so  you'll have a bench mark on the state of the engine.  Again, my experience with slumbering and cold marine engines is that a compression test usually yields about 1/2 the specification--- so if you do this, don't expect 180 psi and certainly don't be discouraged if you get about half that.  If you do find out that a cylinder is not yielding anything, check for a hung valve and a bent push rod--- . You also might consider hitting your rockers and valve stems with the fogging oil you have--   James

[spolij]

James   I didn't see this mentioned but you think he might turn the engine over by hand just to make sure nothing's hanging up?

[sturner50502]

James   I didn't see this mentioned but you think he might turn the engine over by hand just to make sure nothing's hanging up?

Spolij,

I hand cranked, the engine turns freely, thankfully.

[sturner50502]

Another point Steve, since you have the plugs out, you might wish to perform a compression test.  You'll not get a great reading because the engine has not been running for years, and the piston rings may be partially stuck, but with the Marvel oil in, compressing the oil and checking each cylinder may be an efficient way of aiding in the awaking process,before attempting to start it, and in doing so  you'll have a bench mark on the state of the engine.  Again, my experience with slumbering and cold marine engines is that a compression test usually yields about 1/2 the specification--- so if you do this, don't expect 180 psi and certainly don't be discouraged if you get about half that.  If you do find out that a cylinder is not yielding anything, check for a hung valve and a bent push rod--- . You also might consider hitting your rockers and valve stems with the fogging oil you have--   James

Sounds good, James. I thought about compression testing after it got started. But your suggestion makes sense. I will do that. I did not think about fogging oil the rockers and valve stems. Another suggestion that I appreciate and will use.

[mario]

Another point Steve, since you have the plugs out, you might wish to perform a compression test.  You'll not get a great reading because the engine has not been running for years, and the piston rings may be partially stuck, but with the Marvel oil in, compressing the oil and checking each cylinder may be an efficient way of aiding in the awaking process,before attempting to start it, and in doing so  you'll have a bench mark on the state of the engine.  Again, my experience with slumbering and cold marine engines is that a compression test usually yields about 1/2 the specification--- so if you do this, don't expect 180 psi and certainly don't be discouraged if you get about half that.  If you do find out that a cylinder is not yielding anything, check for a hung valve and a bent push rod--- . You also might consider hitting your rockers and valve stems with the fogging oil you have--   James

James, if he does a comp test with oil in the cylinders (wet test) it will give a false reading. If it reads low, he will not know if is bad rings or bad valves. You should always do a dry test first, then compare the results to a wet test. If the comp goes up after a wet test, that shows that the rings are worn or worse yet, broken. If the comp stays the same (low or very low) then that would point to a bad valve, burnt, bent or cracked seat.
The oil in the cylinders at first startup will burn off while the coolant getting up to temp will free up any stuck rings and or valves.
After things cool down and his smile goes away, next day, then he should do a dry test, ect, ect, etc.
Good luck and be safe. I envy you because this is the part of the journey that I always enjoyed.
Ciao,
Mario Caimotto

[savemy67]

Hello Steve,

I like the '69 convertible models.  I had one decades ago.  Keep up the good work.  I think it is a great car.

If I am following this  thread correctly, your motor has not run in at least two years, there was an abnormal color to the oil, the amount of coolant drained indicated a significant loss of coolant somewhere along the line, a sparkplug has what looks to be coolant residue on the ground electrode, and you have "hand cranked" the engine, which I assume means that you were able to turn the engine via the starter.

If I have the above points correct, I suggest, like others, that you do a compression test.  First do a dry test as Mario mentions.  All sparkplugs should be removed, and the throttle should be blocked open.  You should have a strong battery.  Crank the engine until each cylinder's reading reaches its maximum.  This should be about 3 to 6 pulses on your engine.

As James indicated, your engine should read in the 180 PSI range per cylinder.  It would not be unusual for any cylinder to vary by ten percent from the highest reading cylinder.  Any more variation, and you should proceed to a wet test by squirting a little oil into each cylinder and repeating the test.

As Mario indicated, any observed increase in PSI would point to a cylinder with a ring or bore wear problem.  No significant change in PSI would point to a head gasket or valve problem.  If either is suspected, a leak-down test will determine if the problem is rings, cylinder wear, a blown head gasket, or intake or exhaust valve.

Given the signs you observed with the current state of your engine, I would suggest you approach the diagnosis of its condition as meticulously as you did with your interior project.  A compression test gauge is relatively inexpensive at most auto parts stores or via Amazon.  Google compression test, and read several articles, so you have a good understanding of what is happening.  It is much better to discover a problem before you "fire" the engine, and make the necessary repairs.

You can read about my valve train refresh here:

http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=133691.100

Scroll/page down to reply 105.

Respectfully submitted

Christopher Winter

[sturner50502]

Hello Steve,

I like the '69 convertible models.  I had one decades ago.  Keep up the good work.  I think it is a great car.

If I am following this  thread correctly, your motor has not run in at least two years, there was an abnormal color to the oil, the amount of coolant drained indicated a significant loss of coolant somewhere along the line, a sparkplug has what looks to be coolant residue on the ground electrode, and you have "hand cranked" the engine, which I assume means that you were able to turn the engine via the starter.

If I have the above points correct, I suggest, like others, that you do a compression test.  First do a dry test as Mario mentions.  All sparkplugs should be removed, and the throttle should be blocked open.  You should have a strong battery.  Crank the engine until each cylinder's reading reaches its maximum.  This should be about 3 to 6 pulses on your engine.

As James indicated, your engine should read in the 180 PSI range per cylinder.  It would not be unusual for any cylinder to vary by ten percent from the highest reading cylinder.  Any more variation, and you should proceed to a wet test by squirting a little oil into each cylinder and repeating the test.

As Mario indicated, any observed increase in PSI would point to a cylinder with a ring or bore wear problem.  No significant change in PSI would point to a head gasket or valve problem.  If either is suspected, a leak-down test will determine if the problem is rings, cylinder wear, a blown head gasket, or intake or exhaust valve.

Given the signs you observed with the current state of your engine, I would suggest you approach the diagnosis of its condition as meticulously as you did with your interior project.  A compression test gauge is relatively inexpensive at most auto parts stores or via Amazon.  Google compression test, and read several articles, so you have a good understanding of what is happening.  It is much better to discover a problem before you "fire" the engine, and make the necessary repairs.

You can read about my valve train refresh here:

http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=133691.100

Scroll/page down to reply 105.

Respectfully submitted

Christopher Winter

Chris,

Thank you for the excellent information. I hand cranked the engine by turning the crankcase, I didn't use the starter. Which was good news for me, indicating the engine is not frozen. I do have a compression test gauge which I will be using. I also took a look at your valve train refresh on your thread. I appreciate the advice from you, James, and Mario, as it lets me know I am not completely alone in getting my project moving. So, I truly thank you and I am soaking up all the information you guys are giving me.

Steve

[James Landi]

Good morning Steve. Mario, and Christopher,

The reason why I am suggesting that Steve perform his compression test with residue Marvel oil in the cylinders is simply stated as follows:  His engine has not been run for many years, there is good reason to believe that there's no lubrication on and around the piston rings, and by compressing the oil, Steve can accomplish the kind of pre-lubrication prior to starting the engine that may save the engine from internal damage (viz: struck rings scuffing the cylinder walls).  I am aware of the fact that molybdenum rings made a huge difference in the durability of these engines, yet I remain convinced, based on prior experience that Steve's engine will not yield great compression results, on a "dry test," right now,  simply because it has been asleep for so many years, and damp air tends to rust critical parts.  As I mentioned in a prior post, my experience with sleeping engines is that when tested cold, and not having been run for years that I can count on compression being one half the specifications.  Once started and run for awhile and having heated up, the compression returns, and for the most part, in full.   Thanks for reading, and I certainly look forward to additional exchanges.  James