Hi Luc,
Hey, we have to get thru this ordeal together.
I sure was pissed when I broke off one of those bolts. I might have been more careful if I knew it would be an issue. I am at the point where I yesterday got off the balancer. Today I got off the two front studs in front of the oil pan. According to some of the experts the cover should be loose now, I tried to hammer lightly on it (it`s aluminum, beware!) but is sure feels stuck. Tomorrow I will be trying with a 2 X 4, but I am afraid the bolt is stuck within the cover.
If you have a decent size puller, the balancer should come off fairly easy. I just applied a lot of force to the puller, kept knocking carefully on the balancer with a hammer, then PANG, it came off. I don`t have the slighest idea of how it goes back on though.
Keep me informed of your progress.
I am in Europe as well, in Norway. Our best bet is to get new bolts from the States, and not worry about anything metric.
If you have broken off the waterpump bolts that go through the timing cover you are going to have to remove the oil pan so that the front edge of the timing cover where the front pan seal fits does not hold the timing cover. Be sure ALL bolts are removed from the timing cover. The gasket may still try and hold the cover to the block but careful "convincing" will get it free.
Once the timing cover has been slid forward clear of the broken bolt you can work on the bolt itself.
I had to go through this routine recently on my 66 and when I put it together I did so with ALL Stainless Steel bolts.
Greg
When reinstalling the balancer do not hammer it on this will damage the crank thrust bearing, get a installer tool that presses it back on or make something up for the job.
Hi Brian, good topic 8)
I will share my thougts and progress on my '64 waterpump too. I've heard from an expert that these bolts usually break because they 'became one' with the cover. So over the years, they get stuck in the cover, not in the block itself. The best way I heard to loosen these, is to heat them. Maybe you can try that in order to remove the cover.
One other thing, if I had used an air tool (http://www.toolstation.nl/images/library/stock/webbig/16589.jpg (http://www.toolstation.nl/images/library/stock/webbig/16589.jpg)), I'm pretty sure I could've prevented them from breaking :( I broke the two with a normal ring spanner, that's when I decided to gently use the air tool and got the rest out easily....
Well, it's a lesson for next time. At least I can replace my somewhat leaking front crankshaft seal too.
Again, good idea to share ideas!
Are you going to Vasteras, Sweden by the way? ;) I think this year we will be there :) My brother is driving his '71 Chrysler 300 and I think I will be seated right next to him ;)
Luc
Hi Luc,
I am going to try today with heat and gently using a 2 X 4. I guess an air tool would have been a better choice. Lesson learned.
I have been trying for years to get to Power Meet at Vesterås, maybe this year. It sure is big, last year I think they were 11 000 classic US cars. If I go I`ll probably be taking my 68 Chevy C20 Pick Up. My 64 DeVille has real low mileage, and I try to keep it that way.
My crankshaft seal doesn`t leak one bit, but I will have it changed anyway.
Quote from: Dave Shepherd on January 21, 2009, 08:31:55 PM
When reinstalling the balancer do not hammer it on this will damage the crank thrust bearing, get a installer tool that presses it back on or make something up for the job.
Hi Dave,
Yes, I am a little concerned about the thrust bearing. Thanks for that advice. Of course the manuals shows a special tool that is impossible to find, but I guess we`ll come up with something.
Thanks,
BRAIN,if you have the rediator off of the car, you should be able to remove the broken bolts. If you do have to remove the front cover of the engine, I think you can do it without pulling the pan, just loosen the front bolts and be SUPER CAREFUL when you put the cover back-on do not allow the oil pan gasket to slip-out of place, OR you will have to remove the pan. Good Luck,JIM
Hi Jim,
The radiator is out of the car, as well as everything else in front. The only thing I need to somehow get off is the front cover.
I nice trick I actually taught myself after 5 million attempts to get that %&"¤#!! pangasket to stay on my 56 Fleetwood was the following.
I used real thin sowing thread and tied the gasket in place thru each and every hole in the pan. This way I could play around with the pan as much as I wanted and it would stay. After I got the pan bolts in place, I cut of the threads with a sharp knife, and ..voila!! I was in business.
Brian,
Years ago, I bought a universal fit tool made to install the balancer. It consists of an assortment of long hardened bolts that screw into the crankshaft, a hardened nut and a bearing and some heavy flat washers. A washer goes against the balancer boss then the bearing outer race fits against the washer and the nut pushes on the bearing inner race. After you get the balancer in position with the key slot and key on the crankshaft, all you have to do is turn the nut against the bearing with a wrench and the balancer slides right on the crank.
If you can't find the tool in a local auto supply, you should be able to rig up the parts from scrap pieces, hardware or auto supply stores.
Good Luck,
David
clc14765
Guys,
On the issue of Harmonic Balancer removal and replacement. You are probably aware that Cadillac seems to be the only Mfg. that uses four bolts on the damper to hold the damper pulley. You may also note that most "universal" damper tools are set up for three bolts.
In the shop manual of all years with this feature, Cadillac references a special tool, manufactured by Kentmore for this task. Kentmore is still in business (SPC Corporation) and they have a version still available. Costs a couple of hundred bucks and it took about 4 months for mine to show up, but if you are going to be doing any damper removal/replacement OR on the later models where there is a crank hub behind the un-boltable damper (pulley actually),
it is the best money you will ever spend.
Regarding pulling the timing cover with a broken bolt through it without pulling the pan just remember that new or even serviceable timing covers are near non existent so a little extra time can prevent the (essentially) loss of an otherwise good engine.
Just a thought (or two)
Greg
Hi Greg, Luc and all!
I managed tonight to get the front cover off. It sure helps to loosen ALL the bolts. ::) There were two of the in the dirt that I didn`t see first. After careful knocking with a hammer and using a prybar it came loose. That made my day!
Now I will continue with the broken bolt tomorrow.
I wouldn`t mind getting the special tool from Kentmore. Do you have a part number on that tool?
But if it takes 4 months to get, I`m in a hurry and can`t wait that long.
Greg,
This must be the company that sells the tool, isn`t it?
https://gmspecialservicetools.spx.com/SearchTools.aspx
That's it Brian. You need to contact them directly to order what you need, if they still can supply it. I bought my about 14 years ago.
Greg
I got the broken bolt off today!! Took a vice grip, played around with it for a while, and it finally came loose. That certainly made things easier.
When it comes to putting the balancer back on again I plan to heat it up, and I see the center of the crankshaft is threaded, so I guess it will work well to screw it back on. Any comments?
Hi Brian,
Heating up the balancer will cause the rubber inside it to melt. So I don't think that's an option....Hope somebody can confirm this.
Good to hear everything came off! Have a nice weekend.
Luc
Quote from: 1964deville on January 23, 2009, 12:11:12 PM
Hi Brian,
Heating up the balancer will cause the rubber inside it to melt. So I don't think that's an option....Hope somebody can confirm this.
Good to hear everything came off! Have a nice weekend.
Luc
Hi Luc,
I was concerned about that as well, but I would probably not heat it to the extent that the rubber melted. Rubber melts at a certain temperature, and I would try to avoid to heat it that much. If I use the stove I can control the heat.
Heating the balancer is basically a no-no for the reasons given. Most you might do is paint it black and put it in the hot sun, which isn't an option for most right now.
NO reason to heat it. Read the shop manual re installation. It says use a crankshaft balancer bolt. The only problem is... 62 was the last year Cadillac provided one. 63 & later, you got a cork plug. So... you need to find a local friend that will loan you one. I'm sure it's come kind of special thread. HTH, Bob
i believe its 9/16 NF
This should help
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Cadillac_6364_club/msearch?query=harmonic+balancer&submit=Search&charset=ISO-8859-1 (http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Cadillac_6364_club/msearch?query=harmonic+balancer&submit=Search&charset=ISO-8859-1)
Thanks Guys!
I think I`ll try the 9/16 UNF.
Now finding one of those here in Norway is as common as bird`s teeth....
dont get just any old bolt you need a grade 8 IMHO
Quote from: "Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364 on January 22, 2009, 01:46:46 PM
Guys,
On the issue of Harmonic Balancer removal and replacement. You are probably aware that Cadillac seems to be the only Mfg. that uses four bolts on the damper to hold the damper pulley. You may also note that most "universal" damper tools are set up for three bolts.
In the shop manual of all years with this feature, Cadillac references a special tool, manufactured by Kentmore for this task. Kentmore is still in business (SPC Corporation) and they have a version still available. Costs a couple of hundred bucks and it took about 4 months for mine to show up, but if you are going to be doing any damper removal/replacement OR on the later models where there is a crank hub behind the un-boltable damper (pulley actually),
it is the best money you will ever spend.
Regarding pulling the timing cover with a broken bolt through it without pulling the pan just remember that new or even serviceable timing covers are near non existent so a little extra time can prevent the (essentially) loss of an otherwise good engine.
Just a thought (or two)
Greg
Hi Greg,
Is this the one?
https://gmspecialservicetools.spx.com/ToolDetails.aspx?ToolNumber=
Brian
That is the one. I looked back and the part number WAS J-21052-B in 2001 and the price was $214.37.
I suggest you communicate with them before ordering by number via IN.
Greg
Greg,
Forgive me for nitpicking, but could you please take a look at part # J-23523-F and confirm if that is the right one. I`m not sure the right part number came up when I copied/pasted the link.
I want to be sure it`s the correct part when I gotta spend $ 340,- plus taxes plus shipping.
I will clear with Kent-Moore as well.
Brian this "looks" right. If Kentmore says this is the replacement for the tool number listed in your shop manual then it is worth every penny. What I can't see and they don't say is the thread diameter and pitch of the accessories. All the requisite pieces seem to be there, and it looks like what I've gotten. CALL and TALK to them.
Greg
Hi Brian and all other CLC forum members, last Saturday I tried to get the balancer off with balancer puller. It doesn't come off..... :-\ >:D
Some tips would be greatly appreciated. This thing has got to come off. I need to remove my front engine cover in order to repair the broken bolts and replace my gaskets and crankshaft seal.
Many thanks in advance :)
Luc
Hi Luc,
First of all, you need a real Heavy Duty Puller, and you need to tighten it real hard. At the same time, tap the balancer with a hammer.
Just keep tightening a little, tapping, tightening, tapping.....It will come off eventually!
Let me know how it goes.
here's my notes with some other links with info re: removal of a 429 harmonic balancer
http://groups.msn.com/196364CadillacCommunity/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=11322
http://groups.msn.com/196364CadillacCommunity/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=31619
http://groups.msn.com/196364CadillacCommunity/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=24265
http://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/forum/index.php/topic,84234.0.html
http://www.modifiedcadillac.org/forum/index.php/topic,1729.0.html
Several common themes: many say pre-soaking with a penetrating/loosening oil, nearly all say a good puller correctly aligned, most agree an air wrench (if you have room), and patience. All agree no heat or hammering!
also, if your considering getting the balancer rebuilt, then these are the suppliers commonly referenced:
http://www.damperdudes.net/
www.dalemfg.com
http://www.damperdoctor.com/
I used Dale Manufacturing and my recollection is that the rebuild was approximately $100.
Also, FWIW, when you go to re-install, you'll need the correct bolt:
"The manual says to use the bolt from a 1962 390, a less then helpful statement in 2008. Maurice, however, kindly once took the time to document that "I measured the one I have - its 9/16 with a 18 threads per inch pitch."
HTH and good luck!
Chris
I’m not that familiar with the 429 but the balancer on the 472 has one of the 4 bolt holes is not evenly spaced from the other holes. If you put your two bolt puller on the holes not directly across from each other you will be pulling at an angle and that makes it much harder to pull.
Make sure the holes you use are the holes are directly across from each other. As I said above I’m not sure this applies to the 429.
Glen
Brian, Chris and Glen,
Thanks a lot for the information! Yesterday evening the dentist got back to the patient with some new inspiration thanks to you guys. After pulling and slightly tapping it finally came off ;)
Now off to chapter two, removing the front engine cover. I'll keep you posted.
Thanks again.
Best regards, Luc
You've probably read or heard by now of the scarcity of these timing covers and how easily the bolts snap during dis-assembly. Most recommend repeated soakings with PB Blaster or a similar product. Many recommend using a smaller ratchet (1/4 drive) so as to minimize the snapping of the bolts.
Attached is a contribution from one of the members of the 1963 1964 Cadillac forum http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Cadillac_6364_club/ (http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Cadillac_6364_club/) Note the low torque requirement for the bolts. The difficulty is that the years of service have often corroded, rusted, or thinned the original bolts. Hence the need for soaking and care in removal.
The attachment lists the size and parts numbers for sourcing replacing bolts at ARP, a manufacturer of stainless and other high quality bolts. http://www.arp-bolts.com/ (http://www.arp-bolts.com/)
It also has a picture from the manual showing the locations of the bolts.
The 1963 1964 Cadillac forum does have a search function. You may wish to visit and search out information on the timing cover since it has been a frequent topic. You may also wish to check out "o ring" for the water pump cross over pipe since that part of the re-assembly will also make you crazy.
HTH and good luck!
Thanks a lot Chris! It sure helps. Although I knew about the double o-ring for the cross over pipe (I was a frequent visitor of the '63-'64 forum and have seen it come by several times), it never hurts to mention it. It's good to know the bolts of the cover are pretty fragile too. I will take extra care.
Some say you need to remove the oil pan, others say it's not necessary. As you might know, while I was removing the waterpump a while ago, two of the main bolts snapped. So I guess in order to remove the cover more easily, I will need to remove the oil pan, right?
Best regards, Luc
Hi Luc,
Congrats on the Harmonic Balancer!
To save yourself a lot of work, your best bet is to to get the two front studs on the oil pan out. I used a special stud removal tool, but using two nuts should also work out fine. Now, with those two out (Be 100% sure that there is NO more bolts hidden in the grime and dirt on the cover) you need to start convincing the cover to come off.
I had only one bolt broken off. I found an area right behind where the distributor was where I put a wooden plank and banged pretty hard on the wood with a hammer. After a while I could see it was coming loose, eventually so much that I could pry it off. Use care though!
I can 100% confirm that the crankshaft bolt is 9/16 UNF. I actually got one from a well equipped hardware store, and it is the right one!
Going out to the garage right now putting things together, who cares if it is freezing cold.......
Thanks Brian!
Quote from: Brian Daum
Going out to the garage right now putting things together, who cares if it is freezing cold.......
Haha, LOL ;D Good luck on your '64 too! Please also keep posting your challenges, battles, issues and victories and we'll keep this thread alive!
Luc
Dear All,
Back in from the garage, a great day, with some great progress.
Lessons learned today: The rubber gasket in front of oilpan caused me some troubles getting in place, seemed a little oversized, but using a hairdryer made the trick. After heating up the rubber somewhat, the gasket slid right in place.
Don`t do the mistake that I did today: Remember to slid in place the oil pump gear with the shaft BEFORE putting the front cover on. It is impossible afterwards.
Right now the front cover is on, oil pump assy, water pump, distibutor and fuel pump, so we`re getting there slowly.
Dear All,
Right now I am having problems tightening the bolt for the harmonic balancer without turning the engine.
There is supposedly a specialised tool used for filling one of the cylinders with compressed air in order to block the engine from turning over while tightening.
Anyone that knows where to get one of these? Or any tips on using that tool or any other way of dealing with this problem?
The best way to stop the engine turning whilst tightening the Bolt is to renmove the Starter Motor and use a large Screw Driver to use as a stop against the Ring Gear Teeth and the block.
Works every time.
Bruce. >:D
PS. Helps to have a third hand though.
i use bruces method i also use the big screwdriver or a tire iron works also when i torque the flywheel bolts on a stick shift car after flywheel resurfacing
Bill & Bruce,
Thanks for the advise, yes, I have used that method on previous projects. But I`m getting kinda lazy, and it`s seems so much easier using compressed air and the cylinder routine.
And I don`t need to get a helper, jack up the car, take off the starter, and so on...
"There is supposedly a specialised tool used for filling one of the cylinders with compressed air in order to block the engine from turning over while tightening."
I made my own by using an old spark plug. I broke off the porcelain and gutted it, then brazed an air hose fitting to it. However, I would favor Bruce and Bill Henry's method in this particular situation.
For whatever reason and I haven't been able to figure it out exactly, when you use air pressure in the cylinder, and this happened to me 3 times, you loose prime in the oil system and the engine will start with 0 oil. after happening 3 times If for any reason I would use air pressure to hold the engine I would be sure and prime the oil pump before starting the engine.
A screwdriver works to hold the engine, but until you use the proper (Kentmore) tool to remove the damper, you don't know what an easy job it really is.
Greg
Quote from: "Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364 on February 22, 2009, 10:21:08 AM
For whatever reason and I haven't been able to figure it out exactly, when you use air pressure in the cylinder, and this happened to me 3 times, you loose prime in the oil system and the engine will start with 0 oil. after happening 3 times If for any reason I would use air pressure to hold the engine I would be sure and prime the oil pump before starting the engine.
A screwdriver works to hold the engine, but until you use the proper (Kentmore) tool to remove the damper, you don't know what an easy job it really is.
Greg
Hi Greg,
Right now I`m trying to get the damper back on again. I checked on the Kentmore tool, but they were just too costly.
I`ll probably wind up holding the flywheel with a screwdriver.
If you have a compression tester check the hose.
Many of the compression testers have a coupling in the hose that fits a standard compressor hose fitting.
You can see one here:
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2004274/c-10112/Nty-1/p-2004274/Ntx-mode+matchallpartial/N-10112/tf-Browse/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearchGroup?Ntt=compression+tester&reviewflag=1#review (http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2004274/c-10112/Nty-1/p-2004274/Ntx-mode+matchallpartial/N-10112/tf-Browse/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearchGroup?Ntt=compression+tester&reviewflag=1#review)
(You have to scroll up to see the picture)
Glen
Hi Brian, looks like you're nearing the end. Sounds good! As for holding the crankshaft, I would also remove the starter and use something to jam it.
Yesterday I got the timing chain cover off. Ofcourse, now I'm still stuck with two broken bolts (if you look at the attachment, it's the two 'B' bolts on the right side). They're now both broken...(I'm not sure how to say this) even/flat with the engine block. So nothing is coming out. I have to drill these out (they're only in there for as long as a centimeter or something). Then I want to create new thread exactly the same size as the original bolts (I have to check my manual for the exact figures).
This weekend I'm going to clean everything and try to find the right tools for creating the new thread.
Something about the timing chain...can you guys tell something about the amount of play that it must/ can have? Mine has some play and I'm not sure if I have to replace the timing gear chain and sprockets. Thanks a lot.
Best regards, Luc
Luc,
I don't envy you about the broken bolts, but many of us have gone through the same thing. Just be careful and chances are with judicious use of a drill and an extractor, you can remove the broken bolts.
Regarding the other issue, as long as you have the timing cover off, it would be foolish not to replace the timing set and the oil pump gears.
If you had adequate oil pressure at idle before, chances are good the oil pump cavity of the cover is okay. Check for any scoring of the pump cavity walls and be sure to pack the pump with Vaseline to help prime the oil system.
Greg
Hi Luc,
I agree with Greg that you should change the timing set and gear, although I didn`t. My car has 33k and everything looked like new.
One new tip: Wait with putting on the oil filter bracket/oil filter assy until after you have mounted the upper waterpump cross over.
Thanks a lot guys....I will order a new timing set. I always had good oil pressure in any circumstances.
Thanks for the other tips too!
Luc
Hi folks,
Last week I decided to make an appointment with a nearby shop to get her fixed. Following your advice, the timing set must be replaced and I think if I look at this project (including proper installation of the timing set, front cover, balancer, waterpump etc.) I think I'm better off letting someone else do this (instead of me probably doing it twice).
Anyway, won't be long till she's ready to make some miles.
Brian, how are you and your car doing?
Luc
Quote from: 1964deville on March 16, 2009, 04:39:29 AM
Hi folks,
Last week I decided to make an appointment with a nearby shop to get her fixed. Following your advice, the timing set must be replaced and I think if I look at this project (including proper installation of the timing set, front cover, balancer, waterpump etc.) I think I'm better off letting someone else do this (instead of me probably doing it twice).
Anyway, won't be long till she's ready to make some miles.
Brian, how are you and your car doing?
Luc
Hey Luc,
Are you giving up on us now? :) You can`t go wrong changing the timing gear, that is an easy job. Well, I shouldn`t be so sure what I do is correct either, we`ll know once it`s together.
I`ve been away on vacation to NYC for a week, but I`ll start working on it tomorrow. I`ll keep you posted.
Hi Brian.
Been reading yout ordeal regarding the bolt, lots of work for a tiny thing like that.
I sugest that you get the tool for installing the harmonicbalancer, otherwise you my end up ripping the threads out from the crank!
The tool concist of a hardend bolt with a fitting for a wrench an a nut pressing on the balancer and a big, thick washer in betweene, if you check at www.hansenracing.se they have the tool you need and ship to Norway.
It costs 765 sek plus PP, think it 600 nok, article nr. MOR61744
good luck
Thomas K
Hei Thomas,
Jeez, probably just what I`m looking for, I just sent an email to Hansen Racing.
Are you 100% sure that will work on a 64 429?
Tusen takk!
Brian.
The tool has four different studs, check this link http://www.dougherbert.com/harmonicbalancerinstallationtool-p-14216.html?cPath=78_381 i think you have 5/8 unf?
Hope my hint was helpful.
Thomas.
Quote from: Sweede64 on March 19, 2009, 04:34:31 PM
Brian.
The tool has four different studs, check this link http://www.dougherbert.com/harmonicbalancerinstallationtool-p-14216.html?cPath=78_381 i think you have 5/8 unf?
Hope my hint was helpful.
Thomas.
i believe its 9/16 unf
I can confim that it is 9/16 UNF.
And it doesn`t look like that one is included in the kit that Thomas suggests.
Yesterday, while trying to take off the starter, of course the front starter bracket to oil pan bolt broke off....GRRRR.
Not that it matters much, there is enough bolts holding the starter. I just hope I don`t get an oil pan leak now.
I have taken off hundreds of starters before, but this one is giving me a hard time....what else is new...
Forget about removing the starter, forget about fancy tools..
There is one easy way of holding the engine while tightening the 9/16 balancer bolt:
Today I used a oil filter removal tool with the leather strap, held the balancer with one hand and tightened the bolt with the other.
Why didn`t I think of this before. Worked perfect. Took me 5 minutes to get the balancer in place.
Getting pretty close to start up now, keep fingers crossed for no leaks.
Sounds good Brian :) My timing set is on its way from the US to Europe as we speak.
A clever way to hold the crankshaft, you gotta be pretty strong to hold it I guess.
Anyway, hope it'll be free of leaks. Good luck.
Luc
Congrats, Brian, to bad the tool didn't work but you solved it anyway ;)
Broke a bolt to my exhaust manifold today :'(, same shit different location. Now the head is off so it wont be to hard to fix.
Going somewhere in Sweden this summer?
MISSION COMPLETED.
Got the car together today, fired it up, it ran like a champ with only a slight fuel and water leak, nothing major.
Thanks to all for all support and help!
Hi Sweede64: Hope to make it to Power Meet or Rattvik one time, not this year, but maybe next.
Congrats Brian! Nice Work 8)
Now have fun, you've earned it...
@Sweede64: We'll be driving to Vasteras this year, all the way from Holland ;D I'm not driving the Caddy, we're taking my brother's '71 Chrysler Three hundred. The plan is to first visit an American car junkyard, somewhere in the south of Sweden. Then drive on to the western parc 'High Chaparral'. Wednesday we will arive at the scene in Vasteras.
Luc
Well, to keep you updated on the project.....Last Saturday I could finally deliver the car to the shop. After six long weeks the timing chain and sprockets arrived in The Netherlands. Now it's fingers crossed that everything works out fine and I can drive it after months....
I'll let you guys know.
BR, Luc
Hey Guys,
Mine's finally ready too. New timing set, waterpump and apart from that some regular maintenance stuff like belts, hoses, filters and oil. We're ready for some nice weather >:D
Thank you all!
Quote from: "Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364 on January 22, 2009, 01:46:46 PM
Guys,
On the issue of Harmonic Balancer removal and replacement. You are probably aware that Cadillac seems to be the only Mfg. that uses four bolts on the damper to hold the damper pulley. You may also note that most "universal" damper tools are set up for three bolts.
In the shop manual of all years with this feature, Cadillac references a special tool, manufactured by Kentmore for this task. Kentmore is still in business (SPC Corporation) and they have a version still available. Costs a couple of hundred bucks and it took about 4 months for mine to show up, but if you are going to be doing any damper removal/replacement OR on the later models where there is a crank hub behind the un-boltable damper (pulley actually),
it is the best money you will ever spend.
Regarding pulling the timing cover with a broken bolt through it without pulling the pan just remember that new or even serviceable timing covers are near non existent so a little extra time can prevent the (essentially) loss of an otherwise good engine.
Just a thought (or two)
Greg
I am faced with this same dilemma. I went looking, and my balancer puller, for some lucky reason, has 4 slots. Since I know I bought mine at some regular auto parts store, and it could not have been expensive, perhaps more can be found.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy30%2Faustingta%2F1966%2520Cadillac%2520Conv%2F019.jpg&hash=658b49433816c29680470551d4fb8590cd8e54cd)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy30%2Faustingta%2F1966%2520Cadillac%2520Conv%2F020.jpg&hash=83c850f4b907d0f9737fc1d32025d889a39c4d44)
Quote from: Brian Daum on January 24, 2009, 02:56:32 PM
Greg,
Forgive me for nitpicking, but could you please take a look at part # J-23523-F and confirm if that is the right one. I`m not sure the right part number came up when I copied/pasted the link.
I want to be sure it`s the correct part when I gotta spend $ 340,- plus taxes plus shipping.
I will clear with Kent-Moore as well.
Sorry for bringing this very old thread back to life - I found it during my search for the tool mentioned in the shop manual where the number J-21052 is mentioned. Is J-23523-F the correct replacement tool from Kent-Moore? Can anybody confirm?
My Kent Moore catalog (1969) does not show the J-23523, but the J-21052 is shown. I attached a clip of the listing in the catalog.
This is a special tool for Cadillac 390, 429, and 472 engines. As this is a 1969 catalog it does not list the later engines that it would also fit.
Notice that the puller has four holes as does the harmonic balancer.
The one pictured above is a generic puller and is designed to be use with two or three bolts, but not all four. Someone mentioned that only Cadillac has four bolts on their harmonic balancer. I have used that type of puller but it is not as good as the one I made. If you do use the universal one be sure you use the right two holes. When you install the puller be sure the center bolt goes directly on the center. If it is a little off move the bolts to the other two holes and check it again. The puller will only work if the puller is a bit off center.
Also look at the post in this thread http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=143224.msg349436 (http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=143224.msg349436)
Thanks Glen,
J-23523 looks very similar to J-21052 - see attached picture. I think it could work and be basically the same, but I am not sure...