Does it concerns anybody else all these "Guest" that pop up trying to sell stuff? I not one to talk about being a member (but I'm do plan to be one just have not done so yet) but at least I'm registered to be on the forum.
Just seems like every time someone puts out a wanted ad a "guest" will say they have just the part they need. Some of these parts are vey odd or rare items. I find this a bit strange; who are these "guest"? Since they are guest there is no history, nor can you look up prior posts.
Is this a concern to others members of the forum?
TED
I haven't paid that close attention but I do recall seeing a couple recent posts where someone popped in with an answer to a parts request.
As with any purchase anywhere, Caveat emptor.
I would hope that most of the people here are savvy enough to make smart decisions regarding business dealings with people they don't know.
I woulsd also hope that anybody who smells a rat or gets ripped off would alert us to the scammer.
I think it should be required to sign up to post.
Many message board require that. Anyone can read messages, but you should have an ID to post.
Of course it would be even better if the email links didn't work unless you were a member as well.
Brian
I agree with that.
Guests should be able to review the forum but post only if they register.
That wouldn't eliminate all scammers but it would probably cut down on some of the fly-by types who just make mass postings on every buy/sell forum they come across, hoping to scare up a pigeon.
My strong belief is that people who post on this forum to (1) sell parts or (2) ask
for advice to help with their needs should be members of this Club. They should also
post their membership number to provide proof of their standing.
This is the policy that applies to those who wish to ask the volunteer Technicians
for their help. Providing your membership number is a requirement for this service.
I've been a volunteer Technician for 20 years and the first question I ask is
"Are you a member?" -- and I have my Membership Directory handy to check that.
I don't see the forum as being any different. There are those who will argue that
"we should not exclude anyone -- we need to encourage membership" -- and I can
support that to a degree. But -- there are some people who have used this forum
on an ongoing basis for years to sell parts, for example, who have never been members
of this Club and that I believe is inappropriate.
OK -- now I'll await the inevitable backlash.
Mike
Well, you didn't have to wait long, Mike! (about 15 minutes and change)
Not really a backlash but I don't think there is anyone here who would not want to buy a needed part from somebody just because he wasn't a member of the club or the forum.
I'd be willing to bet that 99% of all parts that any of us ever purchase for our cars do not come from CLC members.
Why should a seller be excluded from this forum just because he is not a club member. The two really have no relation to each other.
Some dude parting out a vehicle shouldn't have to join the CLC just to give members of this forum an opportunity to buy some Cadillac parts.
I know I'd be mighty disappointed if I discovered that somebody who had the rare 1932 rama-lama-ding dong that I'd been looking for for 30 years didn't post it for sale on this site because he wasn't a clc member.
there are some people who have used this forum on an ongoing basis for years to sell parts, for example, who have never been members of this Club and that I believe is inappropriate
What would truly be inappropriate would be to exclude the non members who have valuable parts that the members need. The only people that would be hurt are the very people this forum is designed to help.
Here's how the Allante club does it...and it works very well.
1. Anyone can read posts.
2. You must set up a username and passcode to be able to post
3. Paid members of the club can also access pages with literature, documents and valuable resources that non-members cannot access.
Brian
I like the idea of a Guest being able to read the posts, but I have always liked the idea of having to physically Join up as a "Guest" to be able to post a Message.
But, to be a "Guest" one would have to Sign on as a Member does at the moment, which gives actual email and ISP addresses and the like so that the Administrators have the ability to ban and somewhat "Control" the Spammers. You are all aware of the number of times that the Message Boards have been flooded with Pharmacy and Sex Scams. Most of these Scams are put there by Guests.
To become a Registered Member of the Forum, one would have to supply their CLC Member Number, and in doing this, they would be able to access deeper into the system. Like using the Message System.
Bruce. >:D
I am a long time CLC member (Jan.1968, CLC #1800) and I correspond with the message board as a guest. I registered several years ago and when cleared my computer of "cookies" I was suddenly not registered anymore. So I continue as a guest. Not all guests are non-CLC members.
I am a member of the Pierce-Arrow Society. Their web site is for members only. There is a password used but it remembers it and just verifies my identity and I'm in. When I clean my computer of "cookies" it has no effect.
The other question is that should the message board be only for CLC members. Like Mike J., I am a technician for several models and revived the whole program after it died from lack of interest many years ago. I can't say I like giving technical information to non-members. To be a Technician, or Authenticity Manual author generally requires someone to have a great amount of reference material involving some expense. It would seem that a person wanting information could at least join the club. There are other avenues to sell parts such as E-bay. Why should the non-members make money from our free advertising? There are other clubs who have members only web sites.
Terry Wenger
Again, I will state that restricting this site to CLC members only will dry up a valuable source of needed parts. I don't begrudge anyone earning a profit on any part I need for my car and I certainly don't purchase parts from CLC members only. That would be counter-productive and frankly, idiotic. How many members of this club actually sell parts with any regularity?
To forbid non CLC members from posting on this site for any reason is a classic example of the old cliche, "cutting off your nose to spite your face". Doing so would hurt only those this site is meant to help and by extension the CLC itself and the hobby.
As for not giving technical information to non-CLC members, that's certainly your choice, Terry. I like to think that most people offering help, technical or otherwise, do so because of their love of the hobby, the Cadillac marque and the general sense of well-being and feeling of camaraderie that comes with helping others with similar interests.
By doing so for anyone, we are promoting the CLC and the Cadillac marque.
How many people do you think have joined the CLC after being helped on this forum? I don't know but I can tell you that if non members are excluded from the site, their is little incentive for them to explore the CLC further.
G'day Forrest,
Are you a Member of the CLC?
Bruce. >:D
No. Hence no number in my signature.
Jeez Forrest, for all of your great contributions to the forum in the form of postings and other valuable information (vendor list, for example), I would think you could at least support the club with your membership.... what's a few bucks a year. Clubs need folks like you on their rolls, not only for your membership dues, but your well thought out posts on this website and other valuable contriubtions.
Best
Whit Otis
Amen, Whit.
"Don't let your mouth write a check that your (UKW) can't cash!"
...unless there's a kickback to be made from the infamous "LIST"!
Can't cough up $35/year for CLC dues? What must it cost to insure a '56 CDV as a Daily-Driver? In Atlanta?
I'm an iconoclast not a joiner.
What's UKW?
kickback? I wish. Over 1500 hits on this forum before it was removed and about a 1000 at its permanent home on the MCLC.
Forrest:
I'm VERY surprised & disappointed to see that you are not a member of the CLC.
Your comments that the forum should be free and open to all (including parts vendors)
without requiring membership now make more sense to me -- since you're not
a member yourself.
It's difficult for me to understand how a guy who drives a '56 daily and contributes so
many informative posts to the forum will not join this Club!
Your comment that "I'm not a joiner" doesn't cut it -- why not join up and be part of the
future of this Club? It can't be the membership fee -- small change for anyone who owns
a vintage Caddy.
Why not join and come to the next Grand National in Kansas City and see what the Club
does -- in person -- instead of just on the web site?
Mike
From the CLC website:
QuoteWe were initially founded to encourage enthusiasts to maintain, preserve, and restore collectible Cadillacs and LaSalles built from 1902-1942. Now the CLC recognizes all vehicles built by Cadillac. We promote the development, collection, publication and exchange of helpful information pertaining to our cars. We also promote social fellowship for club members.
Nowhere does it limit the purpose of the club to members only except for “social fellowshipâ€. I don’t think it would benefit the club to refuse help to non-members. And I believe it is counter to the stated purpose of the club to not help someone that needs help with their Cadillac. The way I read it the line “to encourage enthusiasts to maintain, preserve, and restore collectible Cadillacs and LaSalles†is still in effect and it includes all “enthusiasts†not just club members. The club is a means to that end, not the other-way-‘round.
Glen
Quote from: Glen on November 19, 2009, 12:51:09 AM
From the CLC website:
Nowhere does it limit the purpose of the club to members only except for “social fellowshipâ€. I don’t think it would benefit the club to refuse help to non-members. And I believe it is counter to the stated purpose of the club to not help someone that needs help with their Cadillac. The way I read it the line “to encourage enthusiasts to maintain, preserve, and restore collectible Cadillacs and LaSalles†is still in effect and it includes all “enthusiasts†not just club members. The club is a means to that end, not the other-way-‘round.
Glen
As a Club Technician for over 20 years, I have never refused to assist anyone who calls or E-Mails me whether they are a member or not. I believe we need to encourage membership in any way we can.
Are you a Technician? Have you ever contributed to writing an Authenticity manual? I have and I
can tell you it takes time, money and patience to do it.
What I object to is those who use the Club services over a period of time -- sometimes for years to sell products, ask for advice and otherwise use the Club facilities (Forum, for example) without paying the membership fee. This (and just my opinion, not policy) is only in the best interests of furthering the growth of our Club if we can get these people "into the fold" so to speak.
All of us need to encourage these people to join the Club and point out to them the advantages to doing so -- this, I feel, is needed to promote the future growth of the Club and help it prosper.
These services are expensive, and all of us are "carrying the load" for these people who do not support the Club by paying their dues.
Mike
I am not privy to what the cost of running this Website is, but the CLC is paying all the costs associated with putting it together, and keeping it going for everyone that uses it, and those in the future who will use it.
Membership Dues go towards this valuable part of the CLC.
Bruce. >:D
I'll put my "two-cents-worth" in here. I really don't see a problem in allowing access to the forum for non-members, but to post I think you should have to register. As far as the selling of Cadillac related items, there is no where on the internet that I am familiar with that does not charge for the service of listing your items. Perhaps certain areas within the website could be limited to members only. I am a member of a group that does this with passwords to limit access to current newsletter, technical advise and current advertised items for sale. If people aren't joiners, let them think of it as a listing fee for a classified advertisement. It troubles me in so many areas of our life people seem to feel that they can "ride" for free and let others pay the price (neighborhood, church, government). If someone is honestly unable to afford membership, I am sure a region would be glad to adopt them.
One of the best reasons to join the Club is the Directory. Unless you have one, you don't know what you're missing. There are other ways, albeit "old fashioned," to contact other members, such as by snail mail, and the phone.
"Otto," you have "met" only a small number of members if you rely on the people who use this forum. And if you say you are not a "joiner", you give the lie to that when you go to this site several times per day, which you obviously do. You have "joined" us by being heard from almost daily.
You are most certainly welcome, by what ever method you choose to "belong" to our group, but I feel you would be a valuable asset if you joined the Club for real. Way back in "ought-'64" when I joined, I had no idea that my membership would lead to the Presidency of the Club and that I'd be responsible for instituting a couple of things that are still used in Club procedures, (such as the original classifications used in GN judging.) I think that's a neat legacy to have.
I could not have done this by sitting on the sidelines., or by only going to Regional events, as a "hanger on", which would have been the comparable analogy to what you are doing now.
Aha, thanks to Barry, I think we've found a solution to Otto's situation. Don't know why it wasn't obvious before. I've been a sponsor a couple times and it works great!
Sponsor a Cadillac Owner
For less than $3 per month, that’s only pennies a day you can help an underprivileged Cadillac Owner realize the true benefits of belonging to a group of people that love the cars as much as him (or her). Can be done on an individual basis or as a Region (Chapter) project.
How can I help through Cadillac LaSalle Club Membership?
By helping Cadillac (& LaSalle) owners who are not realizing the resources & benefits that being a Cadillac & LaSalle Club member brings.
What is Cadillac Owner sponsorship?
Wonderful things happen when you make the choice to sponsor a Cadillac Owner. For less than $3 a month, you'll show your sponsored Cadillac Owner the joys of belonging to a large group of other Cadillac & LaSalle owners by providing them with access to critical resources such as:
• The Self-Starter: This award-winning monthly magazine is published eleven times per year. It is filled with interesting articles submitted by members, mechanical tips and advice; classified sections of cars, parts, and literature for sale/wanted; regional projects; historical accounts; member car features and Cadillac-factory updates.
• Membership Directory: One of the most comprehensive membership directories in the hobby is printed annually and lists all members, their automobiles, and their location, plus engine/model serial numbers, production numbers, judging classifications, award winners, etc.
• Roster of Technicians: Technicians with specific expertise as to the year or model are listed in the Membership Directory as a service to assist club members with difficult restoration/operational problems.
• Authenticity Manuals: These indispensable manuals are published to help members with the idiosyncrasies and correctness of restoring their Cadillac-built automobile.
• Inventory of Memorabilia: CLC jewelry, car badges, and personal items are available for purchase. Without a doubt the inventory and quality of awards, memorabilia and publications is unsurpassed.
• Automobile Events: An annual Grand National Meet is hosted by one of the 44 chartered U.S. regions every summer. The constantly changing location of the meet enhances the opportunity for members around the world to visit new areas while on vacation, enjoy a great diversity of Cadillacs and LaSalles and meet new people with a common interest. Activities at the Grand National Meet include social events, national level judging, technical seminars, local tours, and a swap meet with cars and parts for sale. An awards banquet concludes a typical GN meet. Lifetime friendships have been created through these events and many members anxiously look forward to the next Grand National. Interregional meets are an increasingly popular activity between adjoining regions throughout the U.S.
• Driving Tours: At least one national driving tour is organized annually by one of the U.S. regions...a time to enjoy the Cadillac-built automobiles as they were initially intended...to be driven. Local collections are often a part of such a driving tour as well as cultural and scenic attractions. International affiliates' activities include similar events. All CLC members are welcome to participate.
• Historical Archive: The Cadillac-LaSalle Club Museum and Research Center, Inc. (CLC Museum) is a separate charitable and educational organization. As a 501 (c) 3 organization, it is eligible for and welcomes tax-deductible contributions. Members of the CLC are automatically members of the CLC Museum. The Museum provides access to historical data, factory publications, and vital data contributed by generous donors in order to preserve Cadillac's history and heritage. Copies of the archival information are available for a very nominal fee. One of the recent projects by the Museum is a 432- page publication/coffee-table reference book co-authored by CLC members, Ron VanGelderen and Matt Larson entitled LaSALLE-CADILLAC'S COMPANION CAR.
Will I get to know my sponsored Cadillac Owner?
You'll also have the chance to build a relationship with your sponsored Cadillac Owner that will transform both your lives. "I know my sponsor," says Mr. X, a sponsored Cadillac Owner from the eastern US. "He writes me emails. We talk about Cadillacs & LaSalles."
In the past if a Cadillac or LaSalle owner wanted information from an owner of a like car, the best way to approach it would be to join the Cadillac- LaSalle Club for contact. Many of these owners either had experience or information they had acquired. I have many long time friends in the Club from this process.
Today, with the advent of the web site, owners try to reap the benefits from the folks that have acquired materials, knowledge and/or actual experience with no effort on their part. Also they expect this information instantaneously, with their only investment being a few strokes of the keyboard...... instant gratification. Why spend the cost of the dues?
One can be a member of the CLC without being in club organization, technical services, contributing to the publication etc. and many members are. They do, however, support the organization to keep the web site, publications etc. going. By limiting some of the message board access to members only, some potential members might be turned away, but some may decide to join to receive the club and message board benefits.
I think this matter should be addressed in a future board meeting.
Terry Wenger
Okay I filled out the application and joined; will post my member number when the application is processed.
I have only posted a couple things for sale on this forum but I have sold a few items when people listed a "want to buy". I have posted almost 400 times and most of these are because I was trying to share my experience or give help to others. Hopefully I helped a few. I also try to post pictures when I can so that others can benefit in the future. As a side note can we increase the number of pictures per post to four?
Now that I joined I guess I can post links to my eBay auctions or promote myself a bit more. Mostly I sell parts for 71-78 Eldorados and I currently have about 25 cars I'm parting out. But my business model is to bring a car in, part it, sell the parts on eBay (or other means) and then start over again. Since I sell items only part time sometimes I get overwhelmed with requests or I'm not able to take a part off that I have. I prefer to sell parts by email because I like to verify that the part is there and in good shape before I reply; tmdunlap@comcast.net but the phone is good also 360-464-3288 I'm very open as to what I have, try to be very honest, and have a liberal return policy. I don't want anybody to be unhappy or buy a part they don't want. http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=superted38&ftab=AllFeedback
The main reason I started this post is to warn people to be careful from buying from guest. When they post as guest you have no way of know the past history or if they guy even is for real. A while back a "guest" was advertising hood ornaments for a very good price.; he said they were OEM for Eldorado. When I wrote to him and ask him for pictures, part numbers, and a price if I purchased more than one he never replied. I tried again with the same result. This kink of told me that he was not for real and did not know the details, nor did he have the items. Maybe I'm wrong but this is what it told me. Then I see other "guest" that say they have some very rare parts and this makes me worry.
I don't feel you should be a member to sell or post but I sure think that you should at least go through the trouble to register so we can see a count and past posts. Even if you do not pay dues, if you are providing good information and trying to help people, this is a value service; their time is worth something. And I sure would not refuse to help someone just because they are not a member; nor would I even think to ask.
As for the person that said they were too lazy to register even though they post a lot and provide lots of good information; I think this is kind of sad and I don't understand.
I'm happy to be a new member and should have done it long ago.
Thanks
TED
Welcome!!!
Otto, Forest, or whatever your true name, you wrote: "I'm an iconoclast not a joiner."
Not being accustomed to using such big and fancy words, I had to consult a dictionary to find the meaning of the word "iconoclast". Dictionary.com defines iconoclast as:
"i⋅con⋅o⋅clast
aɪˈkɒn əˌklæstShow Spelled Pronunciation [ahy-kon-uh-klast] Show IPA
â€"noun
1. a breaker or destroyer of images, esp. those set up for religious veneration.
2. a person who attacks cherished beliefs, traditional institutions, etc., as being based on error or superstition."
________________________________________
Origin:
1590â€"1600; < ML īconoclastēs < MGk eikonoklástēs, equiv. to Gk eikono- ICONO- + -klastēs breaker, equiv. to klas- (var. s. of klân to break) + -tēs agent n. suffix
Related forms:
i⋅con⋅o⋅clas⋅tic, adjective
i⋅con⋅o⋅clas⋅ti⋅cal⋅ly, adverb
Synonyms:
2. nonconformist, rebel, dissenter, radical
The Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines an iconoclast as:
"Main Entry: icon•o•clast
Pronunciation: \-ˌklast\
Function: noun
Etymology: Medieval Latin iconoclastes, from Middle Greek eikonoklastēs, literally, image destroyer, from Greek eikono- + klan to break â€" more at CLAST
Date: 1641
1 : a person who destroys religious images or opposes their veneration
2 : a person who attacks settled beliefs or institutions
â€" icon•o•clas•tic \(ˌ)ī-ˌkä-nə-ˈklas-tik\ adjective
â€" icon•o•clas•ti•cal•ly \-ti-k(ə-)lē\ adverb "
Unfortunately, your description of yourself, based solely upon your posts, may be true. And more unfortunate is that you have apparently been very successful in your role of an iconoclast on the message board. The message board is currently understaffed with only five moderators. One moderator just announced he is quitting because he is tired of dealing with the issues that you have created. Another moderator has expressed similar sentiments, but has not yet resigned. Since it is not unusual for a moderator to spend an average of an hour a day performing his duties, the loss of moderators is a big loss to the message board and the club. In his post Barry Wheeler spoke about the legacy we leave for the club. While I agree that a healthy dose of skepticism is often valuable in life, is this really the legacy you want leave behind? Since your two year anniversary of the JOINING the message board is about a week away, it might be good time to reevaluate your role on this board?
I am a member and I for one would be very upset if we lost Forrest over this. I think his contributions to this site has been significant. I will say a highlight of membership is getting the "Self Starter" that is worth the membership fee alone in my humble opinion.
Quote from: Bill Hedge CLC 14424 on November 19, 2009, 02:54:13 PM
One moderator just announced he is quitting because he is tired of dealing with the issues that you have created.
1. I seriously doubt that. Surely there has to be more to the story.
2. "No disparaging remarks against other writers, Club members, vendors, or any other person are allowed."
Quote from: Payton1960 on November 19, 2009, 03:32:54 PM
I am a member and I for one would be very upset if we lost Forrest over this. I think his contributions to this site has been significant. I will say a highlight of membership is getting the "Self Starter" that is worth the membership fee alone in my humble opinion.
Agree on all statements.
I don't think that anybody with 2,263 posts will ever quit. I don' think you can rid of him if you tried :)
No where did I try to imply that you should be a member to post here; I just thought you should be registered in order to sell here. And I do think it's a good idea to be registered to post here also. As far as I know this is the only forum I visit that have "guest".
TED
There is an old saying " If it isn`t broke, don`t try to fix it". Maybe fix it just a little bit. I got my first Cadillac in the early 80s and if it had not been for a friend in Michigan to help out on my problems I would have been lost. Along came this board and we all pitch in to help keep these wonderful old cars on the road. Yes I would like to see a requirement to register( not become a member) to sell parts or cars. I see nothing wrong with being a guest and posting. There is vast knowledge out there who know Cadillacs, who choose not to be members, that is their decision not ours unless we change the rules. So what wrong has Otto done in his posting? He certainly has the knowledge. I don`t agree with some of his postings but that can be said about mine or yours. We are not perfect. Lets keep this a fun site
Quote from: Bill Hedge CLC 14424 on November 19, 2009, 02:54:13 PM
Otto, Forest, or whatever your true name, you wrote: "I'm an iconoclast not a joiner."
Not being accustomed to using such big and fancy words, I had to consult a dictionary to find the meaning of the word "iconoclast".
Synonyms:
2. nonconformist, rebel, dissenter, radical
And there is the meaning you were looking for.
Creating a login for the forum is not the same as joining the club.
It a way to let other users know who you are, though past post and the info in the profile.
I have logins at many forums that I seldom post on. It had nothing to do with joing them.
It is just a way for me to track threads that interest me.
Quote
it might be good time to reevaluate your role on this board?
Surely you're not suggesting that a regular contributor, who helps others because they want to sould leave the forum?
You'd really rather not have the information he provides?
It's attitudes like that cause me to not consider renewing my membership in the CLC.
That relates to me not posting here often, and why I won't go out of my way to attend a CLC event.
Too many people I'd rather not associate with.
Not that I really want to create controversy or anything, but I thought I should pipe in with my two cents.
Where I am in Canada (the Province of New Brunswick), the nearest Cadillac-Lasalle Club chapter is the Northeastern US. If I were to join the CLC, I'd like to participate in meetings, events, and other activities. Doing so would either mean driving 10-12 hours away (or if I joined the Canadian chapter in British Columbia, a 12 hour flight), or taking a $700 round trip plane ride. So, what would be my benefit to joining? I'd get the Self Starter and that would be about it. While I'm sure it's a great publication, it's the only benefit I could enjoy from being a club member. I couldn't feasibly participate in anything.
This forum is a great tool for me. I enjoy getting information, helping others, and interacting with a group of individuals who appreciate the fine pieces of mechanical engineering that Cadillacs are. Although I am not a member of local car clubs, I've been known to help out at local car clubs too. I'll contribute to a group even though I'm not a part of it. My contributions have always been welcomed and appreciated. To hear others say that this should be a members-only resource is really disheartening and, well, snobbish. I don't like snobs. Hearing comments like that doesn't really want to make me join the club. I wouldn't want to join a group of people that are not willing to help others despite membership status.
I think we're losing the true spirit of the car collecting hobby and wanting to turn it into a "country club" for car collectors. I'm a member of the 1961-62 Cadillac Owners Group. It's a free club, online, where we interact and get help from other owners of 1961 and 1962 Cadillacs. We have members of the CLC in our group. Heck, the site administrator even pays for the website himself. He has yet to ask anyone for any sort of membership fee or financial assistance to help keep the site going. In fact, he is encouraging other 1961 and 1962 owners to join and participate. That is the true spirit of the hobby! That is the spirit this forum should adopt.
Bill,
I think you owe Otto an apology and I am somewhat shocked as an administrator of this site that you would ask anyone to leave. This club is about people that contribute and help others. I went through almost ever one of Otto / Forrest 2000+ posts. and 99 percent of them he was helping someone with valuable information. I am afraid you sir are out of line.
With Respect
Rick Payton
I too am "disturbed" that Forrest is being asked to leave. I have never seen anything [in my mind] that has been other than helpful.
What is wrong with creating a little controversy on occasion,to stimulate some thought?
It will be 4 years ago at the beginning of Dec, that I joined the Club. I happend upon it while searching for some information about a '59 SDV I had just purchased.
I was so impressed with the help and answers I received from the group, I decided that it would be money well spent. It was. I'm still here.
I just re-uped for 3 more years, much to the dismay of the Mods I'm sure. I know I've driven Walter to drink a few times. Surely you don't want to leave on my account Walter... Huh??
And Bruce.....as to the cost of running the board? With the present server, it ain't cheap. We ran the MCLC, on a shoestring, but it got too big for the foot. With the size of this site and the content, I'm sure it pushes in the neighborhood of $3000 a year.
But I've made some good friends here. Something you can't have too many of.
Fins
Firstly, neither Otto, or anyone else for that matter has been asked to leave, depart, vamoose or whatever.
I simply asked the question as to if Otto was a CLC Member.
As to Otto's "List", the reason it was removed from the CLC Forum is because the CLC is not in a position to recommend, or criticise any supplier as it is against the Forum Rules "No disparaging remarks against other writers, Club members, vendors, or any other person are allowed."
The commercial side of advertising of Vendors is handled within the Club's official monthly publication, The Self Starter, and it wouldn't be fair on these businesses, who pay fees to advertise, to then get a whole lot more places getting "Free Advertising" on this Forum.
The Advertising within the Self Starter is what enables the publication to continue to be published, and there are thousands more people that this publication reaches than view this website.
Bruce. >:D
Bill,
I vote to throw Forrest off the board!
He's a nonconformist, rebel, dissenter, and radical? Shame on him!(and our Founding Fathers!)
Just throw him off . Sensorship, throught history, has a proven track record of success. We sure don't need him provoking stimulating thought! We can just keep regurgitating the same bland ho-hum. :o
Bruce:
As usual, you are right on all accounts.
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) (Bruce Reynolds) on November 19, 2009, 10:31:34 PM
As to Otto's "List", the reason it was removed from the CLC Forum is because the CLC is not in a position to recommend, or criticise any supplier as it is against the Forum Rules
Which is unfortunate, since one would hope a group such as this could recommend trusted suppliers.
Similarly, warn against those with a less than stellar reputation.
Still Forrest's list was not and endorsement. Just a directory, similar to the phone book.
You don't blame the phone book for list=ing bad businesses do you? No do you complain that your favorite isn't listed.
Quote
The Self Starter, and it wouldn't be fair on these businesses, who pay fees to advertise, to then get a whole lot more places getting "Free Advertising" on this Forum.
The Advertising within the Self Starter is what enables the publication to continue to be published, and there are thousands more people that this publication reaches than view this website.
The businesses that advertise in SS do it to reach the larger audience than what this forum reaches. Nothing on this forum negates that.
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Firstly, neither Otto, or anyone else for that matter has been asked to leave, depart, vamoose or whatever.
No, not explicitly, but the implication was certainly there.
Quote from: Dan LeBlanc on November 19, 2009, 07:25:55 PM
Not that I really want to create controversy or anything, but I thought I should pipe in with my two cents.
Where I am in Canada (the Province of New Brunswick), the nearest Cadillac-Lasalle Club chapter is the Northeastern US. If I were to join the CLC, I'd like to participate in meetings, events, and other activities. Doing so would either mean driving 10-12 hours away (or if I joined the Canadian chapter in British Columbia, a 12 hour flight), or taking a $700 round trip plane ride. So, what would be my benefit to joining? I'd get the Self Starter and that would be about it. While I'm sure it's a great publication, it's the only benefit I could enjoy from being a club member. I couldn't feasibly participate in anything.
Dan, While I agree with what you say, if we all took that view there would be NO world wide members to this club at all. I would be happy to be able to drive for 10 hours and participate in a CLSC of America event, sadly from here in England thats not going to happen, the last event I attended was in Iowa, a 4500 mile flight, Ill never be able to attend with my car, and it will take a wealthier man than me to do that trip on a regular basis anyway, but Ill still keep up my dues.
I'm the Librarian and area Sectary to a UK club for enthusiasts of classic American cars and we have Americans members who have been with us for years, they seldom passably never get the chance to come here but they still enjoy being part of the club. I think the multinational membership adds another dimension to any clubs standing.
(Edited by me only to remove the huge blank space. Bruce Reynolds >:D )
Well, that's a debate which can be endless...I was also surprised to read that Otto is not a CLSC member but, on the other side, he does help other people for free.
As you know, I'm located in Switzerland, I'm a member and I know I will never attend a club meet in the States. And, as a foreigner, it's more expensive to be a member (becaise of the shipping costs to the magazine) than for an American! On the other side, if I can afford to have 3 Cadillacs, I can help the club if I use the services the club provides.
As other here, I had the same behavior with people coming to me when I was the president of the Cadillac Club Switzerkland. During this time, Internet was a thing to come and few people had a knowledge how to search parts. With a '57 Brougham in restoration, I had to learn it and I never refused to help people who needed parts if they were not a member. My politic was good as many of my "customers" joined the swiss club as they saw there was help available.
Roger
Quote from: Terry Wenger CLC #1800 on November 19, 2009, 11:22:17 AM
In the past if a Cadillac or LaSalle owner wanted information from an owner of a like car, the best way to approach it would be to join the Cadillac- LaSalle Club for contact. Many of these owners either had experience or information they had acquired. I have many long time friends in the Club from this process.
Today, with the advent of the web site, owners try to reap the benefits from the folks that have acquired materials, knowledge and/or actual experience with no effort on their part. Also they expect this information instantaneously, with their only investment being a few strokes of the keyboard...... instant gratification. Why spend the cost of the dues?
One can be a member of the CLC without being in club organization, technical services, contributing to the publication etc. and many members are. They do, however, support the organization to keep the web site, publications etc. going. By limiting some of the message board access to members only, some potential members might be turned away, but some may decide to join to receive the club and message board benefits.
I think this matter should be addressed in a future board meeting.
Terry Wenger
Let's take a "common sense" approach on this subject.
I agree 100% with Terry on this. We can extend our ideas on this forum and try to single out individuals for one reason or another, but this will not solve anything, and can be counter-productive and lead to hard feelings. The correct way to handle this is through a thorough discussion at a future board meeting, and if the rules need changed, so be it. In my opinion, everyone should be required to at least register to post. This is done on most forums and minimizes spam and possible fraudulent offers to sell vehicles or parts.
I also feel (as Terry suggested) that some of the access to our forum should be limited to CLC members. Also my opinion is that it should be mandatory that the CLC membership number be listed under club member's name, such as I do. Then those who choose to reply can make a determination of whether or not they care to do so if a question or comment comes up from a non-member. In the past, many on this forum have been a great help to me and I would like to think that this was due to my being a member and the fact that I always posted my CLC member number with my posts.
Some people feel that everything on the Internet is free. It is not free and our CLC members are indirectly paying the cost of developing and maintaining this site.
Accordingly, the CLC club should have the option of setting certain forum guidelines and parameters to suit our goals and to further the growth of our club. Remember that too much growth is not necessarily desirable (bigger isn't always better). Maybe we should analyze all of this more carefully and work out a way to be fair to all, without being "politically correct" to keep a few non-members happy at the expense of keeping members unhappy, if this is the case.
Fred Zwicker
CLC # 23106
I do agree that a person should have to register to post, that is only fair and reasonable.
I can also tell you that running a region or being a moderator is a lot of work that we do for free!! I am the Central Texas Region President and got the job basically because nobody else was willing to do it and I asked for it. I would never want anyone, guest,moderator, or a member to leave the club over hard feelings. Lets be nice people!
I personally, would love to have more growth in our region of active members that participate and further the club knowledge and fellowship of its members. However,I get a lot of people that are unwilling to join the club because they have a bad experience with a club in the past where someone says disparaging remarks about the person or their car. I understand that we are trying to make our cars authentic but the owner may like it painted lime green.
I would like for us all to be a little more respectful of each other. I am happy to see any Cadillac in the hands of someone that treasures it and keeps it from the scrap yard.
(Edited by me only to remove the huge blank space. Bruce Reynolds )
Thanks for that Bruce, I had seen it but no matter what i did I couldn't get rid of it.
As far as this other topic go's and for the people who think none members like Forrest are reaping the benefits without joining the club, it might be an interesting exercise to see what percentage of Forrest's replies relate to him trying to get something for nothing and what percentage is when hes offering help to other forum users. I have not been using this forum for that many years but I have no recollection of him ever asking for something, hes always giving advice, If membership becomes necessary to participate I think this forum will be a sadder place. I have used other forums without being a member, liked it and joined. If you cant use it how would you know if you wanted to be part of it?
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) (Bruce Reynolds) on November 19, 2009, 10:31:34 PM
As to Otto's "List", the reason it was removed from the CLC Forum is because the CLC is not in a position to recommend, or criticise any supplier as it is against the Forum Rules "No disparaging remarks against other writers, Club members, vendors, or any other person are allowed."
I did not know this list was removed till now and I think the reason is stupid. This list did not recommend anybody, it was only a complete list of vendors, that could be added to and improved over time. What a wonderful resourse this was until someone decided that it was bad to give "free advertising". In my mind this was a very bad thing to remove the list and if I was Otto I would be very upset; a lot of work and thought went into making this.
I say we bring it back. This is what really upset me about some of these forums. A few (or one) decide what is best for the many.
TED
The list still lives. Clicking on HUGE VENDOR LIST CLICK HERE under each of Forrest's posts will take you to it at the Modified Chapter.
Geoff N. ;D
Well once again I guess I just don't get it!
I joined the CLC to become part of a club that shared my interest in caddies. I thought it would great to share thoughts and advice on how to repair them and where to find parts. I actually joined the CLC before I ever went to a LI Dreamboats show. At the first show I attended, I joined!
To me this isn't just another forum on the net. Its an extension of "the club". Not to chase anyone away but there are plenty of "free" caddy forums out there. None of which include the word "club" in their title. I feel as members we should have a bit more than the "drive-by" posters. Just like on other forums that have levels of sponsorship that afford more gallery space or private forum areas, or whatever.
I also think that if you enjoy the forum you should seriously consider joining the club and a local region/chapter.
As for the list, I think its nice to be able to have that info all in one place. But, when I see it here on "the club" forum, it seems to be "endorsed" by the club. It seems to say that its a list of trustworthy vendors, which may or may not be the case. So with that in mind I fully understand why it was removed. That said, I think its a bit nervy of a "non-member" or even a member to circumvent the rules and link the banned list in a sig. Then theres the other issue of non-members trying to set policy. Spend the $35 and then voice your opinion!
I believe that the primary focus of the forum should be to promote club activities and such. I also believe that a non-club member selling parts to club members promotes club activities. I also believe that a non-member helping out a member by providing advice so that the member can fix a problem on his/her car promotes club activities.
However, I think that when Club "policies," or club activities are discussed - e.g., Where is the CLC Museum going to be located?; should we accept "modified" cars at the Grand National?; should we have a modified chapter; etc. - then we need to consider the source of the poster. I think that most people assume that all posters are members of this club, and take the poster's opinion as a "club members" opinion, when, in fact, it is not a "club members" opinion.
Does anyone else find it interesting that this post was started by a "none member" and created a witch hunt against another "non member" ???
Guess you must be sighing a sign of relief Ted in Olimpia WA that your late joining of the CLSC took the attention away from you or all this rhetoric might have been coming your way, I somehow think you never intended this backlash against Non Members or perhaps you would not have started this topic? I read your argument as being against non registered users of this forum, NOT non members of the CLSC.
I, for one, am not a member of the club yet, but I am registered here. I have a 68 CdV, nothing very special or rare or even collectible, not mint condition or show-quality. Its my daily driver. If I had a car worthy of actually being in the club itself, I probably WOULD join. (And, to be perfectly honest, money is a little tight right now...do I pay my membership fee to join, or buy that voltage regulator that I need? Oh, and how did I find out I should replace my voltage regulator? I found out HERE, in a response to one of my posts!)
I just come here with a few questions and needing help and/or advice from time-to-time to keep my car as nice and as safe and dependable as possible.
And ever since registering here, I have found everyone to be helpful and friendly and sort of like a "family", if you will. But I am now somewhat surprised at what I am reading. Seems like it started with someone wondering if just anyone should be allowed to post items for sale without even being registered here and it went in a totally different direction.
I don't know who runs this forum, but I guess it comes down to this:
If you want only actual paying members of the club to be able to post and give advice, share tips, etc., then make it so. If you want it to be open to others who have valuable insights and knowledge and are willing to share regardless of membership status, then keep it the way it is.
Speaking only for myself, I have benefitted greatly already by being here, and I WILL join the club when I can afford to, and, in no small part because of the generosity of the people here, INCLUDING FORREST. Every time I had a question, Forrest was there with advice, as were Bruce and others. Everytime I use the search feature to research something I need, there's Forrest and Bruce, as well as others. But in reading THIS thread, I'm seeing names I never saw before seemingly criticizing others. Hmmmm....
I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.
Quote from: Jon Riley #13576 on November 21, 2009, 12:06:34 AM
However, I think that when Club "policies," or club activities are discussed - e.g., Where is the CLC Museum going to be located?; should we accept "modified" cars at the Grand National?; should we have a modified chapter; etc. - then we need to consider the source of the poster.
Should we accept 'modified' cars at the Grand National? Should we have a modified chapter? Jon, perhaps you have not been reading the Self Starter and not attending GNs the past several years. There already IS a very strong and active Modified Chapter which received approval by the CLC Board at the 2005 GN in Des Moines. Subsequently there have been 'modified' Cadillacs and LaSalles on display at GNs since.
The Modified Chapter consists of at somewhere between 125 and 150
CLC Members plus many Registered Guests who are non-CLC but can post and participate on the MCLC Discussion Board. The MCLC Website has THOUSANDS of pages of scanned Cadillac & LaSalle documents including sales brochures, service and tech info, Master Parts Lists, Illustrated Parts Catalogs, advertising and other reference material available for ANYONE to use. The MCLC is primarily a web-based group supported by donations and supplemented by the sale of some merchandise. Many non-CLC persons who discovered the MCLC have eventually become dues paying CLC members. The MCLC Members consist of many of the names that you see posting here to the CLC Message Board on a regular basis. Others haven't 'come out of the closet' yet. ;)
Reading and participating on this message board for about 9 years I see that there is increased interest by CLC members in making updates to their vintage vehicles for safety and driveability. These updates aka modifications could be as simple as retrofitting a dual reservoir master cylinder to a 1950s era vehicle, changing out the rear end or adding a grounding stud to a flathead starter. AFAIK stainless steel exhaust and brake lines were not 'factory' so adding those to your car could be considered a modification too. Additionally many persons are converting their brakes to disc to better be able to handle the stop & go traffic or more accurately idiots who cut you off. Contrary to popular thought, a modified car doesn't always have a Chevy SB, chopped roofline, Ford 9" and so forth it can be subtle changes that make the car more user friendly on our crazy roads.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Going back to the original topic of this thread, being somewhat familiar with the software that the CLC uses for this message board, one solution to the question of Registered Member vs. Guest vs. CLC Member would be to fine tune the settings. Look at the 'Signature' of a Forum Moderator, it indicates a title under his name "Administrator".
A classification (or group) could be created to include a title such as 'CLC Member' under someone's name. When registered to use this forum, a CLC member could submit membership information (cross referenced to the CLC Directory) and he would be added to the CLC Member group.
Subsequently anyone who doesn't provide membership info would default to a group labeled 'Registered Guest' or something to indicate that he/she is not a CLC member.
Not sure if this makes sense to most of you but the Forum Admin should be able to figure out what I mean. Yeah, it would initially involve additional work for the Admin to get everyone online with the new title but I'll offer up my services to assist.
FWIW, just as there continues to be CLC members posting without including their member numbers, I'm betting that a lot of 'members' posting their (former) CLC number who are not current dues paying members...
Excellent as usual, CF.
I would also like to point out, in response to Steve W.'s statement --- "If I had a car worthy of actually being in the club itself, I probably WOULD join." It is absolutely not necessary in any way, shape, or form to be a Cadillac or LaSalle owner to be a welcome member of this club! All it takes is an interest.
I would also like to say that I am quite sure that these forums have saved Steve W. and many others enough time and money that they could afford to join this great club.
Geoff N.
Quote from: Steve Passmore CLC 22373 on November 21, 2009, 03:54:59 AM
I read your argument as being against non registered users of this forum, NOT non members of the CLSC.
That was his original argument. non-registered "guests" vs registered forum members.
It had nothing to do with membership in the CLC.
Mike Josephic, was the one who brought CLC membership into the mix, like he had an axe to grind.
Quote from: CarFreak on November 21, 2009, 09:44:17 AM
FWIW, just as there continues to be CLC members posting without including their member numbers, I'm betting that a lot of 'members' posting their (former) CLC number who are not current dues paying members...
Hey now, I resemble that remark.
It there as a reminder to me that I should renew once my financial situation changes.
Still, I suspect my number could be looked up easily enough, and there are plenty of people that do know where/how to find me if needed.
One doesn't hang around a forum like this of the MCLC for years if they are trying to hide.
I agree completely with you idea on making the distinction between CLC members and non-members.
Simple enough to do, and there are enough admins here to share the load so the initial membership settings won't be that big of a deal.
However, who will be responsible for removing members from that group when they don't renew?
How long of a grace period do they have to renew?
Finally, the original topic, I agree with Ted. Anyone offering items for sale should register with the forum. That allows buyers a way to look for a history of that user, and some contact information that was at least valid to complete the registration.
Quote from: STDog on November 21, 2009, 01:21:57 PM
Finally, the original topic, I agree with Ted. Anyone offering items for sale should register with the forum. That allows buyers a way to look for a history of that user, and some contact information that was at least valid to complete the registration.
I sure appreciate that someone understands why I started the post. My main goal was to warn members of a potential problem that I saw and to be careful. "Guest" selling items is wide open to fraud, you have no way to determine who they are or what the history of the person is. They could be using any name and you have no protection. I was just trying to help and did not try to start a big problem.
Quote from: Steve Passmore CLC 22373 on November 21, 2009, 03:54:59 AM
Does anyone else find it interesting that this post was started by a "none member" and created a witch hunt against another "non member" ???
Guess you must be sighing a sign of relief Ted in Olimpia WA that your late joining of the CLSC took the attention away from you or all this rhetoric might have been coming your way, I somehow think you never intended this backlash against Non Members or perhaps you would not have started this topic? I read your argument as being against non registered users of this forum, NOT non members of the CLSC.
You are way off base here Steve and at no time did I "sighing a sign of relief". I'm in full support of non-members posting to this forum, linking to other forums is very important to me, and I very much appreciate everyone opinion and help. If you look back at my post they have always been to help someone else to either to fix their problem or to find a part they need.
The main reason I joined was to make me feel a bit less guilty if I advertised parts directly to sell. But now I find out that the rules frown upon this and they only want members who "Pay for Advertising" to sell or be recognized as a seller (this shows me that the club is only interested in the buck). Well this is not going to happen with me because I cannot guarantee a good supply of parts to sell. I only sell used parts and once they are gone they are gone; I may or may not be able to find a parts car to replace them in the future. Also I do not have the time to fulfill everyone's need in a timely manner. This is only a hobby for me and I enjoy helping people when I can. And to make a buck so I can use it for play money is a big plus.
TED
Quote from: Ted in Olympia WA on November 21, 2009, 02:02:23 PM
And to make a buck so I can use it for play money is a big plus.
TED
So prior to your joining yesterday, you felt it was OK for us members to pay annual dues so you could be afforded a "free" forum on which to earn"play money" without feeling any need to contribute?
As I said in a previous post. This forum is an extension of the CLC. It is paid for by membership dues. Its not like every other forum on the web that allows pop-up advertising or sells advertising based on "hits".
So if the membership decided that we don't care to read "The Self Starter" and stopped paying our dues, how long do you think your free captive audience would be here?
Quote from: RobW on November 21, 2009, 03:59:42 PM
So prior to your joining yesterday, you felt it was OK for us members to pay annual dues so you could be afforded a "free" forum on which to earn"play money" without feeling any need to contribute?
No, in the past he offered a specific part if he had it and someone was looking for it.
That's the same as any other individual offering to sell a part they have.
That is not the same as advertising as a seller, saying contact me if you need parts.
Maybe it's subtitle, maybe it's because I know Ted (through other forums) , but I see a difference.
Never mind that he has contributed more than many dues paying members, answering questions and offering advice.
You remind of a politician/pundit, parsing someones words looking for the worst way to take what is said so you can feel slighted and then complain about it.
Quote from: RobW on November 21, 2009, 03:59:42 PMSo if the membership decided that we don't care to read "The Self Starter" and stopped paying our dues, how long do you think your free captive audience would be here?
At this point I'm not sure I want to ever give the CLC another penny. I don't care to be a parts of a group with such a holier than though attitude. I probably won't be attending another CLC event nor patronizing the vendors there.
I hope some day you visit a forum outside the CLC seeking help, and I see it, so I can remind you that you pay dues to the CLC for your information and shouldn't be hanging out with the lowlifes that volunteer their time because they want to, and to go back to the snobbish folk you belong with.
You sure don't seem to want the information non-CLC members provide here.
Quote from: RobW on November 21, 2009, 03:59:42 PM
So prior to your joining yesterday, you felt it was OK for us members to pay annual dues so you could be afforded a "free" forum on which to earn"play money" without feeling any need to contribute?
As I said in a previous post. This forum is an extension of the CLC. It is paid for by membership dues. Its not like every other forum on the web that allows pop-up advertising or sells advertising based on "hits".
So if the membership decided that we don't care to read "The Self Starter" and stopped paying our dues, how long do you think your free captive audience would be here?
As I said I have nearly always help people when they ask for it and needed it. I would think that less then 5% of my customer base are CLC members and I doubt the club is the center of the Cadillac world regardless of you you may think. I run my business completely honest and provide the best parts I can with full disclosure.
If you and the members of CLC or this forum no longer think my services are necessary, please cancel my membership, refund my dues, and I will gladly quit posting on this forum. You can continue to buy parts from "guest" with no identity or history. And you can limit yourself to only those who provide paid advertising.
TED
Ted,
Please don't allow the 'loud' voices of a few taint your views against the balance of the Club membership; although they may give the impression I doubt that they are speaking the opinoins of the vast majority.
We need more people like you who are knowledgeable and willing to offer their assistance plus have parts available at fair prices to keep our cars on the road!!
Over the 20+ years that I've been a CLC member I have met hundreds of great people and some not so nice ones, too. Disregard those that fall into the second classification and enjoy the club experience.
I'm sure those people to whom Ted provided valuable parts are grateful that he happened to be here on the forum whether he was a CLC member or not. Contributions to the club, hobby and preservation of the marque take many forms and aren't solely limited to the membership dues.
The questions and answers and information posted in this forum are often much more valuable to the club and its goal and ideals than any dues could ever be.
Quote from: STDog on November 21, 2009, 05:09:36 PM
No, in the past he offered a specific part if he had it and someone was looking for it.
That's the same as any other individual offering to sell a part they have.
That is not the same as advertising as a seller, saying contact me if you need parts.
Maybe it's subtitle, maybe it's because I know Ted (through other forums) , but I see a difference.
Never mind that he has contributed more than many dues paying members, answering questions and offering advice.
You remind of a politician/pundit, parsing someones words looking for the worst way to take what is said so you can feel slighted and then complain about it.
At this point I'm not sure I want to ever give the CLC another penny. I don't care to be a parts of a group with such a holier than though attitude. I probably won't be attending another CLC event nor patronizing the vendors there.
I hope some day you visit a forum outside the CLC seeking help, and I see it, so I can remind you that you pay dues to the CLC for your information and shouldn't be hanging out with the lowlifes that volunteer their time because they want to, and to go back to the snobbish folk you belong with.
You sure don't seem to want the information non-CLC members provide here.
You just don't get it! First off I don't feel slighted at all. Secondly I support other forums I belong to through sponsorship donations, usually $25/yr. My point is that if someone is profiting from this club owned and membership supported site they should join the club and help offset the cost of operating the site they are profitting from. What's wrong with that?
I have no problem with Ted. I'm very familiar with how he offers parts. I also don't think paying dues for that privelege is asking too much. Cheap rent if you will.
And you're more than welcome to visit me anytime at www.elcaminocentral.com My name over there is Bobby78. You'll find I give alot of help and good advice to anyone who I feel I can help.
BTW I've never asked for help in how to fix something here. Only things I've asked for are a few parts.
Quote from: Otto Skorzeny on November 21, 2009, 05:40:57 PM
I'm sure those people to whom Ted provided valuable parts are grateful that he happened to be here on the forum whether he was a CLC member or not. Contributions to the club, hobby and preservation of the marque take many forms and aren't solely limited to the membership dues.
The questions and answers and information posted in this forum are often much more valuable to the club and its goal and ideals than any dues could ever be.
That would be true if this site sold advertising here and allowed things like annoying pop-up ads. Then all that great info would be profitted on by hits translated into $$ from advertisers. That's not the case here. The forum is here only because x amount of people all over the world decided to be a part of the CLC and send in their dues.
Car Freak:
"e.g." means example. I was giving examples as to club policies and changes of the policies of this club over the years. If you re-read my post with this in mind, you will understand that I was making no judgments either way as to the location of the CLC museum, or the modified chapter, or whether to allow modified Cadillacs at the Grand National. BUT, these are CHANGES to the club policies.
I think that everyone who is a member of the CLC (for which I am a “current†dues-paying member of over 10+ years) understands that there is a modified chapter and that modified Cadillacs are invited to attend the Grand National. (But they were not when this forum was started)
Let me re-iterate my points:
- Unregistered, non-club members, selling items helps CLC members.
- Unregistered, non-club members, offering advice regarding the problems of Cadillacs helps CLC members.
- Unregistered, non-club members, offering advice and suggestions as to how to run the club does not help the CLC.
I understood where you were coming from Jon. But then, I am living in the future. ;D
Bruce. >:D
Guys, I think the admin folks need to stop this topic before it gets any further out of hand! I could care less who is a member or non member at this point. All I care about is a fun group of people who love a Cadillac or LaSalle. I would say every statement here is the view of one individual member and not the view of the "CLC". So with that I hope my post is the last on this topic.
Quote from: Payton1960 on November 22, 2009, 12:03:59 AM
Guys, I think the admin folks need to stop this topic before it gets any further out of hand! I could care less who is a member or non member at this point. All I care about is a fun group of people who love a Cadillac or LaSalle. I would say every statement here is the view of one individual member and not the view of the "CLC". So with that I hope my post is the last on this topic.
Yes,let this be the last post.PLEASE
I'm in.
Locked.