Hello everyone! I'm a new forum member and a new member of the CLC. I just picked up a '41 Cadillac Model 6723 (67 series with the jumps seats / no division window) from St Louis on June 1st. It's a nice, solid, complete car that runs and drives but needs a little cleaning up, some elbow grease and some TLC. The car appears to be mostly original with the exception of the interior which was redone previous to the previous owner. If it wasn't for the fact that the upholsterer did such a nice job, I'd probably return it to original. But for now, that's pretty close to the last of the things to do on the list. This is my first Cadillac and I'm already learning quite a bit as I go along.
The mechanicals need some sorting out and for now, I'm going to leave the cosmetics alone. The paint looks like it might be original or possibly a repaint many many years ago and the chrome has seen better days. I guess it all adds to the patina of the car. From 20 feet away, it looks fantastic!
I'll be keeping everything as original as possible and returning anything that has been modified back to original standards.
I figured that I'd post my progress as I go along and maybe I can help out someone else down the road who may be able to learn from my attempts and mistakes. I'm sure I will need some help and or input from members here that are willing to help. Otherwise, it's always fun to be able to watch a project take shape.
Andrew Armitage
Plainfield, IL
Once I got my "new" car home, I felt it was necessary to dive into it immediately.
I immediately changed the oil and put in some fresh 15W-40 Classic Car Motor Oil.
I've ordered new belts and a shop manual along with some new BF Goodrich WWW bias ply tires. The tires on the car are probably over 15 years old, if not older. I'm also planning on replacing all the rubber coolant and heater hoses.
Then I had to completely rearrange my garage so that the Cadillac didn't prevent me from entering my garage from my house as there was only a few inches between the door and the bumper.
Once it was in place, I decided to get down to business. First order was replacing belts, hoses, and getting the cooling system in order as the engine would run hot when going over 50 mph for any length of time.
My plan was to first pull the water pump as it was slightly leaking. One thing led to another and after I drained the coolant, I pulled off all the old tired radiator hoses, removed the petcock from the engine block along with the plug on the driver's side, removed and threw out the old belts, pulled the water pump, fan assembly, and then pulled the radiator too (with the help of a friend) because at that point, there were only four bolts holding it it.
Once all that was out of the way, I flushed the engine block with a garden hose and a flexable gutter drain that I picked up from the local ACE for $5.
I took the radiator in to Lake Zurich Radiator & A/C to have it inspected and flow tested as they specialize in working on vintage radiators. The owner, Jim could see right away that the passages that could be seen from the top of the radiator neck were either partially or completely blocked. I left it with him so that he can work his magic on it.
I'm sending my water pump to The Flying Dutchman in OR to be rebuilt.
I was able to find replacements for the radiator and heater hoses at the local Napa parts store.
Now I'm just waiting for everything to get back from the specialists so that I can put it all back together before I forgot how I took it apart!
I got the radiator back from being recored. But before I put it back in the car I took a quick look at the wiring harness that goes up and around the radiator frame and quickly realized that it was in worse shape than I thought. I can't even believe any of the headlights work! I taped the wiring up as best that I could.
The insulation was disintegrating in my hands, leaving bare wires. I really don't like the way it looks. I'll be ordering a new main wiring harness very soon, hopefully before I have an engine fire! As it stands now, I just don't have turn signals or the over head interior light operational.
Wiith some help from a friend, I was able to get the radiator back in the car. Now I'm just waiting on the water pump.
My new tires came in and I'm trying to decide weather or not to paint the wheels before I have the new tires mounted... And should I paint them red or black? I think I might go with the red, to give the car some color.
I can't wait to hear it run again!
Good start ! Keep those photos coming . The Restoration blog is read and enjoyed by many of us even though you may not get many responses . Paul Tesone CLC #6876
I second Paul,s comments. I am redoing the mechanical's on my 41 series 63. It started with a brake problem and one thing led to another. If you need advice just ask. I can't believe how much expertise there is out there and how willing people are to help. Bob Smits
Thanks fellas! I'll keep the pictures coming.
Can anyone tell me if any '41 Cadillacs had anything other than the painted woodgrain dash and window frames. Somewhere along the line, a previous owner reupholstered the car in an un-original fashion and it looks like they polished the paint off the dash and window frames. They did such a good job of it that there is nothing left anywhere that would clue me in as to what was there originally. The dash looks like aluminum and the window frames are chrome. I have to probably pull a lot of stuff out of the dash to get at all the wiring when I redo the main harness (if this project hasn't bankrupted me by then!). That might be the time to have that dash repainted properly. I just want to make sure that I'm having it redone right.
Here are pictures of what I have in there now.
Andrew - Before you do ANY cosmetic restoration , get yourself an authenticity manual from the club . If the 1941 manual is anything like the manuals I have for my 37,47 and 57 it will be worth every penny . Go to the CLC home page , click on store , click on authenticty manuals , then find the manual for your 41 . It is listed as Class 11 and costs $50.00 . As far as your dash is concerned , I struggled with the same issue just a short time ago while restoring my 37 convertible ( still in progress ) . I had to restore the center portion in "olive burl " wood grain . I wasn't real happy with some of the hand painted dashes I saw coming back to the shop where my car was - they all seemed so dark . Then I found out about a company called Hydro Dip . You can google them and see a video of the restoration process and see samples of the wood grains available . They did my dash and window surrounds and I couldn't be happier . They worked very hard to meet my requests . Go to my posts on the restoration blog ( 1937 6049 series ) to see some photos . I just put in some new ones about an hour ago . Call ( 781-593-1154 ) or email me ( tess352@yahoo.com ) if you have any questions about the Hydro Dip process . As for other questions about mechanics , etc ; I'm only a novice , and there are plenty of other members who can help you if you post the questions . If you end up calling or using Hydro Dip , ask for Scott and tell him that I haven't forgotten about sending him some final photos; and let me know if you had a positive experience .Good luck . Paul Tesone CLC #6876
Andrew, For a non authentic interior, I think it looks good. My '41 6733 (divider window/jump seats) has the dash painted black and chrome window frames in the driver compartment. The rear compartment has a medium brown, straight grain pattern on the window frames and a burl woodgrain on the garnish below the frame. The 6719 (5 pass sedan) parts car has a woodgrain dash and the same pattern for all windows as described in the limo rear compartment. Hope this helps. Harry Scott (4195)
I wound up pulling the radiator out again and modifying the mounting holes. I just didn't like the way it was sitting in the cradle. It appeared to be about a 1/4 inch too high and the thermostat bolts prevented the radiator from fitting into the cradle properly. I spoke with the shop that redid my radiator and my options were to bring it back to them (over an hour drive) each way (2 times - drop off and pick up) so they could remove the mounting straps on the sides and reweld them 1/4 inch higher on the radiator or I could bring it back to them and they would redrill the holes or I could redrill the holes myself.
I opted to redrill the holes myself. As much as I hated doing it, it was the quickest and easiest way to get this project done. So I measured and drilled new holes. I'm much happier with the way the radiator sits in the cradle now.
Still waiting on my water pump to be returned.
I ordered up some new www tires to replace the 20+ year old tires on the car now. I'm bringing them in to a local restoration shop to strip the wheels and have them powder coated before I put the new rubber on. I really like the red wheel option... Does anyone know a paint code for a modern car that matches the original red for the wheels? Otherwise, I'm gonna have to eye-ball it. Also, are the wheels gloss or satin finish?
Also got the water pump back a few days ago from Flying Dutchman Water Pumps and installed it, using a thin layer of copper coat to make sure it was nice and sealed.
I recieved my belts from Allcad.com but found that my generator was binding up when I tried to spin it by hand. I was so close to getting it running again! I also found that the regulator that was on the car was not the proper application so I switched it out with an NOS Delco unit. (Yes, I remembered to jump the connections to properly polarize it).
I was going to drive the car over for it's new tires but I just pulled them off here at my house and took them over so the shop can get started on them while I wait for my generator. I wish I had more space to work!
Hopefully I can get her back on the road in another week or two. (fingers crossed!)
Quote from: harry s on June 19, 2011, 10:20:41 AM
Andrew, For a non authentic interior, I think it looks good. My '41 6733 (divider window/jump seats) has the dash painted black and chrome window frames in the driver compartment. The rear compartment has a medium brown, straight grain pattern on the window frames and a burl woodgrain on the garnish below the frame. The 6719 (5 pass sedan) parts car has a woodgrain dash and the same pattern for all windows as described in the limo rear compartment. Hope this helps. Harry Scott (4195)
Harry, yes, this does help. Thank you.
Quote from: Paul Tesone on June 18, 2011, 01:50:07 PM
Andrew - Before you do ANY cosmetic restoration , get yourself an authenticity manual from the club . If the 1941 manual is anything like the manuals I have for my 37,47 and 57 it will be worth every penny . Paul Tesone CLC #6876
Thanks Paul, I'm going to order one of those manuals.
Andrew - I received your email requesting information about the red color I used on my 47 wheels . I don't have a return email address as your message came thru with a CLC personal email address . I did attempt to send you an email this morning , but I'm not sure you received it .So I'm responding here . I have some good news and perhaps some confusing information for you . As you probably know by now , your black 1941 67 series is supposed to have one of three wheel colors : black , triton green or vincennes red . It seems that you are interested in the vincennes red . This is the color I used on my 47 wheels , so I'll tell you what I know . First - this subject has come up on the Forum before and you can see the different responses by searching " vincennes red ". Barry Wheeler ( CLC #2189 ) has a 41 Caddy and he responded to this question saying that a 1960's Ford engine color is a good match for vincennes red . Doud Houston said that 1960 Ford Monte Carlo Red is a good match . They may be talking about the same color , I don't know . I was told by a local restorer who was doing his own 47 Caddy with vincennes red wheels that a good color match was Mercedes Signal Red . I actually saw his wheels and liked them , so I decided to go with the Mercedes Signal Red . Originally , I planned to have them painted , so I had my local paint supplier mix up a small batch of Concept Signal Red - code 71520 . At the last moment , I decided to power coat instead of paint . I took the Signal Red paint to the powder coater and matched it up against the samples he had from Tiger-RAL . These samples were small metal plates which had been power coated , so it was a true color I was looking at - not a photo . I found an almost exact match .The powder coater told me I picked Tiger-RAL 3003 . That's the plate I went with ; and the color on the wheels ended up being the exact color of the sample plate . That's the color you see in my post . Confused yet ? You will be if you're not already . Tonight , I googled " Tiger-RAL to look at their color charts for you . Much to my surprise , the chart shows #3003 to be a much deeper red than is on my wheels or was on the metal sample I chose . I think the powder coater used the color I wanted , but gave me an incorrect color chart number . So I'm not certain what Tiger - RAL number he actually used . All I can tell you is that the color did match the Mercedes Signal Red and he did use the color I picked even though he may have mislabeled the color code on my receipt . Google " Tiger-RAL " and you can see the choices for yourself . This may be all useless information for you since your email to me said your wheels were being powder coated on Monday . Perhaps, if you're uncertain about the color , you can postpone the powder coating until you can see some actual samples ( Tiger-RAL will send samples to your powder coater if he doesn't have them already ), or until you contact Barry or Doug. Hope I haven't confused your decision . Let me know what happens , and by all means be certain to post a photo of the finished wheels . Good luck; the car looks like it will be beautiful once completed. Paul Tesone CLC #6876 .
Paul, thanks for the quick reply. I apologize for not including my return email address in my coorespondance with you.
I actually had selected Signal Red, I believe it was the 3020 chip. It was the only red that really looked like a true red and not leaning towards maroon or orange. I'm going to take this as comfirmation that my guess was correct.
I'll post up the result with the color code after my wheels are done.
Andrew:
Welcome to the club! To give your car a proper "breaking in" I would suggest a short 98 mile drive down I80/94 to La Porte, Indiana. There are 5 or 6 CLC people in the area who would like to see your car!
If not already a member, I would also suggest joining the West of the Lake (Chicago) region of the CLC. If you are not already planning on attending, you should also give some consideration to attending the Grand National in Columbus, Ohio in August.
Lastly, I hope that I do not offend anyone since you have received excellent advice here, but if you have a technical question, you may want to consider posting the question in the "Technical Forum" since, as stated above, there are not as many members reading this forum as opposed to the Technical Forum.
Good luck on your car!
Bill Hedge
CLC # 14424
Quote from: Bill Hedge CLC 14424 on July 12, 2011, 11:17:34 PM
Andrew:
Welcome to the club! To give your car a proper "breaking in" I would suggest a short 98 mile drive down I80/94 to La Porte, Indiana. There are 5 or 6 CLC people in the area who would like to see your car!
If not already a member, I would also suggest joining the West of the Lake (Chicago) region of the CLC. If you are not already planning on attending, you should also give some consideration to attending the Grand National in Columbus, Ohio in August.
Lastly, I hope that I do not offend anyone since you have received excellent advice here, but if you have a technical question, you may want to consider posting the question in the "Technical Forum" since, as stated above, there are not as many members reading this forum as opposed to the Technical Forum.
Good luck on your car!
Bill Hedge
CLC # 14424
Bill,
Once my Caddy is up and running, I'd take a trip to La Porte if there was a nice show in the area or a local Cadillac Club meeting. I'll have to keep my eyes open.
I went to a show put on by the West of the Lake Chapter a couple weeks ago, minus my car, as I was waiting on my water pump and new belts. I met some really nice people. In fact, someone I met there helped me out with some information and a recommendation on where to have my generator rebuilt. Unfortuneatly their meeting time conflicts with my schedule for about another month. After that, I should be able to make it out to some meetings to participate.
I'd like to make it to the Grand National next month. I've been working on my car like a full time job! Most recently, I had my generator rebuilt and it's waiting for me back home (I'm on a vacation in Ixtapa, Mexico for a few days) (and the fact that I'm thinking abut my Cadillac while on vacation is a whole other issue). I need to bolt it back up and fire the Caddy up for the first time since the day after I brought it home! Once my wheels are ready, hopefully soon after I return home, I'm gonna hit the road ASAP to test its roadworthyness. I think I've sorted out the most serious issues facing the car. The rest is just cosmetics and leaks. I'm sure at the Nationals I can find more than a few qualified people who can assist me in figuring out how to remedy a few of the remaining bugs that I'd like to address.
Thanks for the tip. I'll post up issues I'm having problems with in the technical section from here on out. So far, I've had all my questions answered right here.
I'd have to say that I get a lot of joy returning something so elegant back to its former glory. I hope to do it justice!
Freshly powder coated wheels and new wide whites. Ran me around $2,000 when it was all said and done. Wheels were done in RAL 3020, Signal Red, if anyone's interested.
Got the car back on the ground and tried to start it up. Ran real rough and died at idle. Changed the cap and rotor and now it won't start at all. It's too hot out there and I had to take a break. I'll check to make sure the wires are all connected right again later this evening when the temps go down.
(that's my father in the picture helping me clean off the wheels before mounting them)
That is funny I had an issue with a gentlemen on Youtube not far back about how he incorrectly identified a 1941 series 67. He thought it was a 75 and after a bit of discussion realized it was a 67. The point of my comment here is that he was just taking videos of old cars not necessarily ones that he owned. So long story short the 67 he filmed is yours. I can tell because it has a Missouri license plate on the front and the same interior. Anyway I can send you the link if you would like. Good luck with your project.
Matthew Gardner
Matthew,
I actually saw the video when I was looking on youtube to see if I could find what an original interior looked like! There's no mistaking it with that interior, it's one of a kind!
I'll need that luck. It appears that I've got a problem with the distributor / ignition system now. The cap and rotor were replaced with NOS Delco parts. The spark plugs were replaced with NOS Delco M8s and gapped between .025 - .030. The Voltage Regulator was also replaced with an NOS Delco unit (and was polarized once installed). Now, the car won't start. It'll turn over, but it's like there's no spark. I'll probably need a bit of help with this one.
That and the carb is leaking gas pretty good. Looks like over the years, it's been patched up with some misc. parts and springs that don't belong in an effort to keep her running. I think it's borrowed time has run out. I'm going to pull it and have it rebuilt before I have an engine fire. I'm going to send it off to Daytona Parts. Inc. for a full restoration (www.daytonaparts.com). I've heard good things about them.
So I guess, one thing at a time.
Had the carb restored by Daytona Parts Co. They did a great job! Here are before and after pictures. The carb was almost too pretty to put back on that rough looking intake!
Andrew, I have been enjoying your posts. I am in a parallel world with my 1942-6719. Mine ran when I bought it but during restoration I decided to rebuild the engine. My car was originally Antionnette Blue so I am repainting it to that color. I will probably go with the Signal Red wheels also. You are blazing he trail for me and I will continue to follow your posts.
Gary, I'm glad that your enjoying watching my progress. I was watching your progress and wishing that I could get things done as fast as you!
As far as my progress recently, I just replaced the fuel pump with a rebuilt model (from Arizona Vintage Parts) this past week. Now with that and the freshly rebuilt carb, my fuel delivery problems should be done.
Notice that in the picture of the old pump, the bowl is empty. That was after quite a bit of turning the engine over. After installing the rebuilt one, the bowl filled up immediately as it should.
But unfortunately, the car won't start. I'm not sure what I missed but after quite a bit of looking around, I'm out of ideas.
I have a friend that I consider to be an expert coming out tomorrow to help me dignose what the hang up is.
I seem to have this thing with fixing things until they don't work anymore!
Andrew, Can't wait to hear what the problem is or was. In the meantime a few things to check. You should be able to look into the carb while moving the linkage and see a spray of gas or pour a small amount into the carb (pour first, then attempt starting) to see if the car starts. If not and there is no sign of trying to start you probably have had an electrical problem develope. If the car does start after pouring some gas in and then stops the float is probably stuck. Good Luck, Harry
Harry, thanks for the tip but it turns out it wasn't the carb (which was just rebuilt by Daytona Parts Company). But you are right, there wasn't even a hint of ignition or catching when turning the engine over. It was electrical.
My friend, Norm, drove two hours to my house to help me out. After hearing the engine turn over, he told me that it was fighting against the compression which ment the timing was severely off. After about an hour of checking the shop manual to see how things are supposed to be and how they were on my car, this is what we found:
The whole distributor tower was put in incorrectly sometime over the past 70 years for unknown reason. When I replaced the distributor cap, I replaced the wires according to the diagram in the shop manual. That is, I didn't switch them from the old cap to the new one, one by one in the same order. The car wouldn't start after that.
After setting the #1 cylinder at TDC, and pulling the distributor cap off, the rotor was pointing at the #8 cylinder! So we took all the plug wires off the cap and placed the #1 cylinder plug wire in the #8 spot according to the diagram and then placed all the wires in the proper order from there around.
Fired up immediately.
Used the timing light to set the timing and that was that. Took it out for a test drive and everything is great.
Sometime in the future, I'll have to pull the whole distributor tower out and replace it in the correct position. Whoever took it out last, shifted the gears by one tooth over and then just shifted all the wires over one spot to get the firing order correct instead of pulling it out and placing it in correctly. I have no idea if there was a reason or if it was lazyness. But now that I know what the problem was, I can correct it without just guessing and throwing more parts at it.
After my test ride, I took it for gas and let it stretch it's legs on a 40 mile trip. And it drove great! But now I feel the brakes grabbing so I need to pull the wheel cylinders apart and rebuild them and flush the fluid. But that's no big deal. I'll try and do that next weekend when I have some extra time.
A big thanks to my friend Norm Kortus for all his help!
Andrew, Glad you were able to figure it out. It is always interesting to see some of the things they did to keep these cars running. You are probably right about someone putting the distributor tower in and found out it was not lined up so rather than do it right they made a quick adjustment of the wires. It sure is nice to get it right and take that drive. Good Luck with the brakes, Harry
Thanks for the tip on having the carb rebuilt, I contacted them and am sending mine. A local carb guy gave a lower bid but I sure like the way yours looks. Is it performing well.
How about posting a picture of the car with the wheel covers on? I am in the throes of making the wheel color/wheel cover decision. I am considering the small wheel covers with the trim rings but have a couple of good large wheel covers already. I will make the decision with my old lady soon.
Do you have fender skirts? I found a pair and am planning on installing them also.
As to your distributor being installed wrong, in my opinion it was installed differently but the car ran well so it was not really wrong was it? I ran into that many years ago but I was the guy without a manual and my car ran fine but the poor guy who may have worked on it later could have had a problem. I put the distributer in and brought the number 1 piston to TDC and then hooked up a coil and found the spark in the distributer cap and called that hole number 1 and installed the rest of the wires by the firing order. I think I was 180 out instead of a tooth but never found out. I bought that car partially dissasembled.
Keep up the good work on the blog!!
Gary,
I'm extremely happy with what Daytona Parts Company did with my carb. In my opinion, it's worth the few extra dollars, they really do top notch work. Even the way they packaged the carb up to send back to me showed that they really pay attention to detail. A very professional company. I wouldn't hesitate to use them again in the future.
I did put the small wheel covers on to see what they looked like but in my opinion, there was too much red showing. I didn't put the trim rings on because I didn't want to scrape up the wheels. After trying out both, the full dish did it for me, hands down. Sorry, no pictures though of the small wheel covers with the red wheels.
I'd love to have the fender skirts on my car but I just don't have a set yet. I think they make the car look more formal.
As far as the distributor, I think your completely right. I don't think there's any harm in it, it's just not 100% correct. The only issue is that it turns the distributor slightly clockwise and makes it hard to get at the screw that holds the main line wire that runs to the coil. If the car should ever pass on to someone else and I haven't corrected it, I'd be sure to let them know so they don't have the same problem I did.
So I go to inspect / rebuild the wheel cylinders for the rear brakes which are hanging up. Dealing with the rear brake drums now. What a pain!
I drew in the shoes, flattened out the lock washer on the axle and loosened up the axle nut. Sprayed penetrating lube on the axle and even heated it up with a torch after it wouldn't give with the hub puller. Still no luck. I'm going to leave the hub puller on over night and let the penetrating compound work it's way in there over night. I don't think the neighbors want to hear me pounding metal on metal all night long, so I'm calling it a night.
Looks like someone from a previous post suggested giving the hub puller some good wacks on the head every now and again to get the hub to break loose. I guess I'll try that tomorrow too.
Seems like when I hit the dog bone on the puller, the wheel turns too (fractions of an inch each time). Maybe I'll try a 3 foot long breaker bar on the hub puller nut or try an impact wrench on it. Maybe the vibration will break it loose. I'll post up how I finally do it. I think it's just a matter of time before it gives.
No answers yet. Worked on it for hours yesterday. Hammering the dog bone, loosening it, spraying with penetrating compound, heating the drum, tightening the drum puller again, pounding away, loosening it, tightening it, pounding on it some more, etc.
Couldn't get it still. My neighbor came over and told me to bring the car to his shop next week and we'll use equipment that he uses on heavy trucks to get them off.
I'll post up how that goes next week.
So with that, I moved on to a different project that I could accomplish quickly (note to self... nothing is a quick project). I went to replace the accelerator return spring on the carb because what was on the car was two bent up Mickey Mouse springs that, although they did the job, the gas pedal was sitting low and the idle adjustment screw had to be turned way out to compensate. Well, with the new spring in there (AutoZone generic $5 special), the pedal was now sitting nice and firm and had some tension behind it.
But when I started the car, the idle was way too slow and it died out. Started it again and keep giving it gas but as soon as I let up on it to jump out and adjust the carb, it puttered out in about 5 seconds. Then it wouldn't start and I think I flooded the engine trying to restart it! I was out of time and had to leave for Thanksgiving dinner, so I put the battery tender on it and put it up for the day.
Went back today and again, no ignition. I checked all the plug wires and put a tester on a plug which showed it getting electricity. I pulled a plug which looked to be gas fouled. Again, no time. I had to get ready for work.
My plan for tomorrow is to pull the plugs and clean them off. Then try again to restart the car after increasing the idle speed some to adjust for the new accelerator return spring.
Andrew, I feel your pain with the rear wheel removal. Try inserting a piece of pipe or something ridgid between the legs of the puller and contacting the floor so as to keep it from turning when hammering. If that doesn't work a 3/4" impact will surely do the job. As far as the idling situation. it sounds like once you get the idle adjustment screw set to correct idle you will need to adjust the linkage from the carb to the pedal. The other thing that helps keep the linkage true is to have small springs and washers (as original) where the connection points are. Good Luck, Harry
Harry,
That sounds like a great idea with the pipe against the floor. The issue I had was that I got to a point that hitting the dog bone would only turn the wheel too (even with the car in 1st gear). The 3/4 impact wrench sounds like an even better option (although I don't have one...).
I didn't have time to try and get the car running again today but will have a couple hours to give it a go tomorrow.
I'll post up my results.
I was able to successfully get her going again today!
I pulled the plugs like I had planned and used brake clean and a soft brissle toothbrush to clean up the electrodes on the plugs. Some were worse than others. I let them air dry and left the plug holes in the cylinder heads open so that they could air out too. After taking a break, I installed them back into the heads with new crush washers and torqued them down to 10 ft-lbs.
I adjusted the idle screw in to increase the idle speed to keep her going if she started.
I also propped the choke plate open with the end of a screwdriver to ensure that I didn't continue adding a rich mixture to an already flooded engine (I wasn't sure how bad it was flooded or if it was still flooded).
Pushed the start button and she started right up like nothing had been wrong! After the engine / carb warmed up, I adjusted the idle back down to where it should be and took a drive to test everything out and get the engine up to operating temperature and give it a good run.
The throttle is much more responsive with the new accelerator return spring.
I guess I learned how easy it is to foul out spark plugs! I had the car running less than 5 minutes to get them that fouled.
Now back to the brakes!
A thread was started in the Technical / Authenticity forum about restoring wheel medalions.
http://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/forum/index.php?topic=117398.0
I'm going to attempt (as a layman) to restore one. I'll post up my results and how much it costs in time and money.
I started with the worst medalion of my extra set. So far I've spent an hour polishing with metal polish, a rag, a toothbrush and q-tips to clean up 1/2 a medalion.
So far:
1 man hour labor
$7 for supplies (polish)
Here's what it's looking like so far.
Hi Andrew,
I just went out and bought the supplies to do mine also. I bought a stripper and my old army days favorite Brasso brass polish along with the paints and clear coat and brushes. Spent over $60 in three different stores to get it all. Hope it comes out well. I will use a buffing wheel on a drill though as I dont have the patience you seem to have.
Keep the post going so i can get some hints before I start. I just ordered a new battery for my camera and will post results also.
Gary Griffin
Here is a totally off the wall idea, but it might work.
Take it to your local jeweler and see if they could ultrasonically clean it. That does not take away any detail in the base metal and is way easier on the finger skin.
If they can't, maybe buy an unit for yourself. That might not be to much money and be equal to buffing, polish and other materials, plus no hard labor.
Just another goofy idea.
David
Quote from: David King (kz78hy) on December 05, 2011, 10:48:34 PM
Here is a totally off the wall idea, but it might work.
Take it to your local jeweler and see if they could ultrasonically clean it. That does not take away any detail in the base metal and is way easier on the finger skin.
If they can't, maybe buy an unit for yourself. That might not be to much money and be equal to buffing, polish and other materials, plus no hard labor.
Just another goofy idea.
David
David,
You're absolutely correct. I'm looking into buying one. They don't look to be that expensive ($35-$50). I'm not looking to spend 8+ hours polishing these wheel medalions so that I can then spend even more time prepping and painting them. At that rate, purchasing perfect reproduction medalions at $65 a piece is a much better option.
Andrew,
If you want to paint those wheels Vincinnes Red, get in touch with the guys at Auto Color Library. (www.autocolorlibrary.com) They have the correct red in single stage urethane. Have them reference my order for it if that helps. Your car is looking good. I'll post some new pictures of mine soon. I'm just about to put the frame components back on and then put the engine and tranny on the frame and lower the body down. It'll be a relief to get that all done and have some room in my shop again.
Ken Karrer 1941 6227 D coupe
Hey Andrew,
I am not sure how far you have gotten with your medalions, but one suggestion that I have not seen on the forum (or maybe just did not notice) was using a fine (000) grade steal wool. I did mine tonight and it took me about 8 to 10 hours to clean, polish, and paint 7 hub cap centers and the two hood emblems. I used the steal wool with some brass polish and once I had a decent shine I took the polishing wheel and some polishing compound to them to bring out that shine. I will post some pictures under my restoration thread for the 7519.
P.S. I have not forgotten about you. I was out of town getting my new car and lost track with the holiday's. The package has arrived and I will get things taken care of quickly. Thanks again. :)
Quote from: 1941-7523 on December 31, 2011, 02:47:24 AM
Hey Andrew,
I am not sure how far you have gotten with your medalions, but one suggestion that I have not seen on the forum (or maybe just did not notice) was using a fine (000) grade steal wool. I did mine tonight and it took me about 8 to 10 hours to clean, polish, and paint 7 hub cap centers and the two hood emblems. I used the steal wool with some brass polish and once I had a decent shine I took the polishing wheel and some polishing compound to them to bring out that shine. I will post some pictures under my restoration thread for the 7519.
P.S. I have not forgotten about you. I was out of town getting my new car and lost track with the holiday's. The package has arrived and I will get things taken care of quickly. Thanks again. :)
Matthew,
I didn't get much farther than I posted. I got an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner for Christmas and tried it out. It worked really well for getting the dirt off of the medallions, but even after several cycles and me increasing the amount of agent I mixed in, they didn't come out looking anything close to shiney. But did cut down on the amount of time I spent polishing them out for the same result as before and it did remove all the old paint in the corners that I couldn't get to. The 000 grade steel wool is a great idea.
I saw your pictures under your thread, they look great! They almost look too good to put on those hupcaps I sent you!
Congrats on the new car. It really is an addiction. I was contemplating looking at a '41 75 series that's for sale not too far from me. Why? I don't know. Keeping the 3 old cars I have now running and on the road is almost a full time job and I have no space for the ones I have let alone another one! I guess it's like saving a stray dog.
Good luck with the two projects. You'll be a resident expert on 41-75 series Cadillacs once you're done.
I figured with the holidays and all, that you were busy. No worries. Get to it whenever you get the chance.
And one more thing... What type / brand of paint did you use? Color codes / names?
Andrew,
Daytona redid the carb on my 41 and did a fine job. I've also had Pony Carb do work for me and they're great too. Your problem of not firing is likely not the carb however as you can spritz a little gas into the top of the carb and a car with proper ignition etc. will fire up. If it was running before you changed points and condenser and you've changed nothing else (spark plug wire order?), my bet is that your new condenser is bad. Switch it with the old one and see what happens.
Good luck,
Ken Karrer 1941 6227D coupe
Ken,
I figured it out, the distributor was off by one setting. The wires were all shifted by one position (clockwise) to compensate. When I put the new cap on, I put the wires on according to the book (which was then not correct for my car with a distributor that was improperly positioned). I figured it out with the help of a friend and made the necessary corrections.
The other time I had problems starting it, was when I changed out the accelerator return spring with one that had more tension. It changed the carb settings and flooded out my engine. Again, I adjusted the settings and got it started again.
Everything has been corrected and it runs and drives great again. But I did find that my vacuum advance is not operational and needs to be rebuilt. So that's one of my winter projects.
Thanks for the help though.
Hey Andrew,
Honestly, the paint I went with had to be durable and look nice after that I was not concerned with color code. I wanted something that was as close to how I thought they should look. So for the white and blue I used an exterior enamel and for the red (which was the most important to me as it can make or break a good medallion restoration) I needed something that was of a higher durability to avoid fading or falling off. I liked how the red turned out and I partially chose the color based on how I thought it should look and partially on the name. It is a rust-olium paint so it should hold up and the name of the color is "regal red" which I thought was fitting for our cars. Anyway, good luck with your medallions.
One more tip, I painted most of the medallion with toothpicks as the small areas are hard to paint. I did not mask anything off, I just painted slowly and used the clean end of the toothpick to wipe up any mishaps (the wood helped soak up the paint easily).
Andrew,
Send that vacuum advance to Terrill Machine if you want it rebuilt. Rebuilding is a good idea as even an nos unit will have an old diaphram.
Ken
Thanks for the recommendation, I'll look them up.
I haven't posted here in a few months. Been doing more driving than restoring lately (which is good).
I just thought that I'd share that I'm taking a trip down to St Louis for Easter weekend as I'm registered for the Concours d'Elegance that they hold every year at Forest Park. I thought it'd be a nice destination for the car's first long trip, as before me the car spent most, if not all, of its life there. It's about a 300 mile trip each way.
I hear it's a good show, I guess I'll see for myself!
Well, I didn't make it to the show. The car broke down about 60 miles east of St Louis. Turns out that the rear bushing in the generator was worn to the extent that the play in it allowed the armature to hit the field coil and destroyed the insides of the generator.
I had another generator overnighted to a shop in St Louis who installed it. I tried to get the car home but broke down again as the "new" generator wasn't charging. Took the battery and left the car. Charged the battery overnight and went back, installed it and made it home. Took the "new" generator to a shop and they determined that one of the brushes was installed incorrectly and was the cause of the no-charge condition on my car. Had that generator repaired and the original generator completely rebuilt.
Also had the fan bearing replaced as I had everything apart. The new bearing is slightly longer than the original, so make sure the distance from the housing to the back of the fan mounting plate is 1 3/4" otherwise the fan will squeal pretty bad.
Car is better than ever and I'm ready to go back on the road with it as soon as the weather improves.
Thanks for all the help the various members gave!
Guys,
I sent my carb off to Daytona and they did a good job. Pony Carbs is reliable as well. As to the starting problem, if all else is well after trouble shooting, I'd suspect that it's a connection around the coil area and if you don't see something there, I'd change the condenser. Actually, I got tired of messing with that stuff as those manifolds are brutally hot, and I replaced everything with a Pertronics. You can do that whether you keep the 6v or go to 12v and yes, you can make the coil look stock. I always keep a set of points and condenser in the trunk for back up, but in all my years of doing this I've never needed them and I have been stranded by a bad condenser. Interesting how that almost always happens at night or when it's really hot and your wife is in the car. I know the electronic ignition and 12v isn't for everyone, but I'm planning to install AC in this car. By the way, Charlie Babcock in Florida has the correct, flexible line that runs from the hard fuel line to the fuel pump if you need that.
Ken Karrer 1941 6227D coupe