I'm sure you 57 guys can see some other incorrect things. http://palmbeachauction.com/OpenAuto2/listings.php?make=Cadillac&model=Eldorado-Biarritz&id=265
Whitewalls a "little" too wide.
Dog eared owners manual but hey it's the one that came with the car. LOL
And of course the made up mfg. plate.
Bob
Bob,
It appears that the leather and dash grain are not correct. It should be "Cape Buffalo" grain and it could be a "biggie" in points judging. The raised deck lid could be something as simple as the Micro Switch in the pull down mechanism. If this is the car (body No.1) advertised a while ago, it was in tough shape and things like the door sticker could have been missing. Non-the-less a bit more care could have been taken in the reproduction. I'm not certain about the bent pipe on the compressor but I believe that was copper and not painted. Even with those nits to pick, I'd love to have it in my garage. It will be interesting to see what it brings at auction.
Ralph
Gee Bob, You know my 57 Biarritz love affair is blind, so I wouldn't have a hard time putting this one in my shed at all. All looks pretty good to me. What's the beef? Even the door tag looks like my 57 Biarritz one. I have a photo of the chassis and eng vin on my comp at home from the ebay listing 5 years ago it was 5762000001 . It had 58 hash tags and 60 taillights and a continental kit that have thankfully been removed. it was advertised a year later still unfinished but restoration had begun. At 75k and I still loved it. Floors looked good.
Brougham had narrow WWs but standard was 3 1/2 weren't they? These might be touching 4 inches. Air cond pipe is just like that on mine. Looks like it has the correct buffalo grain on seats . Cape Buffalo and smooth grain was used. Dash has grain.
It was advertised on ebay unrestored and everyone bagged it but heck they all look the same when you take their clothes off.
Probably only thing I can see jumping out is the fancy chromed dual quad lug nuts. 4 are used when the standard 57 Eldos (ie not Brougham) only used 2 fancy ones and two ordinary wingnuts. I could live with the upgrade to four though.
I saw a restored triple Elysian green Biarritz at Hill and Vaughn in Calif in the early 90s and it was FW #2.
Q
The photos aren't the best but it does look to me as though the dash pad is the Buffalo grain as well as the seat insert leather. The carpeting doesn't seem to be quite right. I think it should be a bit thicker pile.
Under the hood--the lettering on the power steering reservoir cover should not be painted; the brake booster is not correctly painted and is missing the "inspection" paint daub; it looks as though it has the block-lettered valve covers. This being car #1, it fell under the early engine production that had the early valve train carried over from '56. Early '57's I've seen have the "Cadillac" script valve covers. Also, the very early '57's supposedly had an additional chrome strip at the cowl. This was eliminated very early in the production run as per the "Serviceman". This car should have it if it is car #1. There should be a paint notice on the glovebox door. And, yes, the whitewalls are way too wide.
I noticed the accelerator pedal is missing the chrome bezel. Another minor thing, but the car is being marketed as a high end unit. It is those kind of details that separate the truly well done cars from the just really good ones.
My opinion.
David
Hello Gentlemen
This is not my era of expertise but I enjoy your commentary.
I think this is a vehicle that was on display at our CLCMRC event in Hickory Corners this past September 2012. The presenters were a father/son team.
It's not a LaSalle but I could find room in my stable.
Any truth to the rumor that all number one Eldorados were green cars? Just curious, don't know where I heard that.
Chris,
I don't know that all of them were, but light-medium metallic green phographs well in B&W. It looks like medium pearl gray and provides a great backdrop for the crhome.
Ralph
Tell the new owner to fly me out on his private jet and I'll bring a spare accelerator SS cover , 2 x $2 air cleaner wingnuts and some black paint to paint out the power steering cover and put a paint dawb on the booster ( we can discuss the rocker covers and the missing chrome at the cowl if he/she wants) . . . but only if he/she takes me for a spin around the block and lets me keep the spare fancy aircleaner wingnuts.
It's still a very special car for what it is so I am happy to relinquish some steadfast authenticity in the name of gushy, youthful, over-enthusiasm of perhaps what is my all-time favourite Cadillac.
To be the first 1957 Cadillac chassis and first Biarritz rolled into one is utopia.
Hi Q,
No beef, just comments. I wouldn't mind that car in my garage either, but time for reality. LOL That car has lots of incorrect details. You would think that someone spending that kind of $ on a restoration would do some research. Overly wide whitewalls is usually just the most obvious of the errors. When the paint isn't even dry on the car & it's already for sale... That tells the real intent of the restoration. And by a dealer to boot!
Bob
Ahhh!..... I just love the smell of thinners at an auction
Ralph
Window crank on the door. I thought that the standard features included power windows and power vent windows. I know the '58 had these as standard. The car obviously has the power windows, note 4 switches on driver's side.
Wing vents on 57 * were manual winders.
* 57 Broughams had first electric vents.
The overall view of the engine is excellent. There are a few items that are questionable, such as the valve covers on the engine appear to be darker in color than the bat wing air filter assembly. I am unable to see the a/c compressor final test OK CAD decal.
The ID tag serial numbers are not consistent â€" they appear to be stamped and not engraved and the numbers are not straight, they are wavy. The trunk locking mechanism is obviously not working correctly â€" the trunk lid is not in its closed position.
The oil filter housing is missing its decal.
The view of the front end of the car â€" there is a mis-alignment between the hood and the left front fender. The gap is not consistent with the one on the right side.
My office contacted the Hollywood Car Auctions in West Palm Beach. We were told that the reserve is going to be between $600,000 - $700,000. In my opinion, that is too high of a number. It may not bring that anticipated number.
In consideration of the car itself, it looks like a beautiful job with a lot of engine compartment detail.
Frank Nicodemus
Frank Nicodemus Classics and Antiques
SOLD! $590,000.00!
Frank Nicodemus
Quote from: Frank Nicodemus on March 24, 2013, 01:09:43 PM
SOLD! $590,000.00!
Frank Nicodemus
Still any doubts that classic car collecting, is becoming more of a rich man's game?
Quote from: Louis Smith on March 24, 2013, 01:49:13 PM
Still any doubts that classic car collecting, is becoming more of a rich man's game?
That depends on
what the classic car is. Lots of very respectable examples of Cadillacs are available well within the working man's budget. All the same, nigh of $600K for a '57 Ritz is insane- IMHO.
Quote from: ericdev #8621 on March 24, 2013, 02:24:23 PM
That depends on what the classic car is. Lots of very respectable examples of Cadillacs are available well within the working man's budget. All the same, nigh of $600K for a '57 Ritz is insane- IMHO.
I agree. 20+ year old Cadillacs are still readily available, and at very reasonable prices. Many times their cost is lower then the tax on a brand new Cadillac. While I would greatly appreciate having a Cadillac of that age, how many others feel the same way. Since you mention the "working man", I still feel the present state of our economy and inflation, is making it more difficult for the average working man to have the joy of owning a older Cadillac.
I'm surprised that nobody commented on the total botch job they did on the dash cover where it meets the lower dash around the speedometer pad - HORRIBLE! I blew it up on my iphone and the workmanship is God awful!
The oil Change plastic with the Engine Number is a reproduction. The letters should be straight and indented as mentioned previously.
The carpet vinyl insert is incorrect as is the carpeting with the multi-pieces - The original carpet was a one piece fitted carpet.
The 3rd picture shows the factory floor mats - I posted them because the expensive reproductions are not shaped the same. This does not apply to the Eldorado sold as it had no floor mats.
I've attached photos of what the above should look like:
. . . and this went for $590,000?
Jon
Quote from: Jon S on March 24, 2013, 03:29:14 PM
I'm surprised that nobody commented on the total botch job they did on the dash cover where it meets the lower dash around the speedometer pad - HORRIBLE! I blew it up on my iphone and the workmanship is God awful!
The oil Change plastic with the Engine Number is a reproduction. The letters should be straight and indented as mentioned previously.
The carpet vinyl insert is incorrect as is the carpeting with the multi-pieces - The original carpet was a one piece fitted carpet.
The 3rd picture shows the factory floor mats - I posted them because the expensive reproductions are not shaped the same. This does not apply to the Eldorado sold as it had no floor mats.
I've attached photos of what the above should look like:
. . . and this went for $590,000?
Jon
......and cars of this less then original quality, is the reason that prices are going through the roof, and out of the reach of most people.
No, prices are going through the roof because "non-collectors" with limited knowledge of cars are buying them as "investments." This spoils it for the true collector and has caused prices to rise exponentially. Barret Jackson and others are not helping anyone else but themselves!
Quote from: Jon S on March 24, 2013, 03:50:03 PM
No, prices are going through the roof because "non-collectors" with limited knowledge of cars are buying them as "investments." This spoils it for the true collector and has caused prices to rise exponentially. Barret Jackson and others are not helping anyone else but themselves!
That's exactly what I said. 8) This sale will lead to the trickle down pricing of other cars of the same era. First will be the basic convertibles, followed by the hard tops.
What you guys are describing is a bubble in our Cadillac car market.
What we do is sell our cars into this craziness........... "non-collectors" with limited knowledge of cars are buying them as "investments."
Then we buy them back when the bubble pops.
We end up with the same cars and alot of stupid money in our pockets!
Mike Baillargeon #15848
Quote from: Jon S on March 24, 2013, 03:50:03 PM
No, prices are going through the roof because "non-collectors" with limited knowledge of cars are buying them as "investments." This spoils it for the true collector and has caused prices to rise exponentially. Barret Jackson and others are not helping anyone else but themselves!
B/J is in business. "Helping itself" is what it should, indeed
must do. It employs scores of people for a paycheck and has millions in expenses annually. I have no problem with that. This is America.
I will agree, on one point: A lot of big spenders not well versed in many of the important points of what makes for a strong blue-chip collectible often overpay as in the case (IMO) of this '57. Many of them probably don't even care what the car is/isn't or the loss they'll absorb when the time comes. That's just they way it is and if the bubble bursts, so be it.
However, there are still many avenues open for those of limited means to get a nice collectible Cadillac. If one is patient and prepared, there are some very nice cars to be had for relatively little money.
Quote from: ericdev #8621 on March 24, 2013, 05:32:25 PM
B/J is in business. "Helping itself" is what it should, indeed must do. It employs scores of people for a paycheck and has millions in expenses annually. I have no problem with that. This is America.
I will agree, on one point: A lot of big spenders not well versed in many of the important points of what makes for a strong blue-chip collectible often overpay as in the case (IMO) of this '57. Many of them probably don't even care what the car is/isn't or the loss they'll absorb when the time comes. That's just they way it is and if the bubble bursts, so be it.
However, there are still many avenues open for those of limited means to get a nice collectible Cadillac. If one is patient and prepared, there are some very nice cars to be had for relatively little money.
"Relatively little money?" Just how much is "relatively little money?" Just what will "relatively little money" get one? "Relatively" to one person, might be expensive to many others. It is my thinking that the older the model year, the more desirable it is, and the more they will cost. The newer ones, will be cheaper, but just how desirable are they?
Oh yes, less anyone think I am a carrier of impending doom and gloom, I am not. I am mere stating my opinion as I see it, due to many factors. Hopefully I am wrong.
Quote from: Louis Smith on March 24, 2013, 06:26:56 PM
"Relatively little money?" Just how much is "relatively little money?" Just what will "relatively little money" get one? "Relatively" to one person, might be expensive to many others. It is my thinking that the older the model year, the more desirable it is, and the more they will cost. The newer ones, will be cheaper, but just how desirable are they?
Oh yes, less anyone think I am a carrier of impending doom and gloom, I am not. I am mere stating my opinion as I see it, due to many factors. Hopefully I am wrong.
One has to be realistic in their expectations. A late '50s convert is going to cost some serious dough, no question. You can't expect caviar for hot dog money.
However if one is resourseful, there are many excellent ways of getting a nice vintage Cadillac for relatively little money. By that I mean the amount of money some people spend on getting a grille and bumper rechromed alone!
How about $5500 for a beautiful 1980 Coupe deVille. Mostly original paint car in Carmine red with white top with white leather with red carpet with 69,000 miles. Or a 1977 Coupe deVille in Black, black with burgundy cloth- one owner 76,000 miles for $4,500. Or 1977 Coupe deVille with
13,000 miles!- Triple yellow for
$6,000! I posted a link myself here in hopes a fellow CLCer would get it because it was such a steal. It was sold in 1 day, unfortunately. All the above were #3+ to 2- condition perhaps needing some minor mechanicals sorted- NONE needed restoration and all were mostly all-original cars. (You must never buy 1970s cars and newer needing restored under any circumstances. It's financial suicide.)
These are just a few examples that come to mind all within the last 6 months. Nice Broughams 87-90 can be had all day long in the $5-7K range depending on mileage, options and most of all COLOR! Black being the most desireable & valuable. Many of cars in the 20-30 year range are at near bottom values at present and are for the most part, very liveable and servicable at modest cost. Of course, certain engines should be avoided within this time frame, ie: HT 4100.
At this writing, there's a gorgeous black 1981 Fleetwood Brougham on eBay that looks exceptional. It'll probably land at around $5,500 or so.
Now if you're a working man an expect to buy a driver quality '50s Caddy Coupe for under $12K, that's probably not going to happen. However a buddy was looking at a '54 Series 62 Sedan- black with power windows and air!! Car went of around $8,500 IIRC and it looked really nice.
I could go on ad infinitum. Point being that you can get a damn respectable Cadillac for a pittance of what the car cost new. Cars that will never be made again and will endow their owners with all the comforts and luxury for which we celebrate The Standard of the World!
Now if you're talking about someone looking to get into a really nice car who's got $500-2000 to spend.... well that's another story.
Quote from: ericdev #8621 on March 24, 2013, 09:01:57 PM
One has to be realistic in their expectations. A late '50s convert is going to cost some serious dough, no question. You can't expect caviar for hot dog money.
However if one is resourseful, there are many excellent ways of getting a nice vintage Cadillac for relatively little money. By that I mean the amount of money some people spend on getting a grille and bumper rechromed alone!
How about $5500 for a beautiful 1980 Coupe deVille. Mostly original paint car in Carmine red with white top with white leather with red carpet with 69,000 miles. Or a 1977 Coupe deVille in Black, black with burgundy cloth- one owner 76,000 miles for $4,500. Or 1977 Coupe deVille with 13,000 miles!- Triple yellow for $6,000! I posted a link myself here in hopes a fellow CLCer would get it because it was such a steal. It was sold in 1 day, unfortunately. All the above were #3+ to 2- condition perhaps needing some minor mechanicals sorted- NONE needed restoration and all were mostly all-original cars. (You must never buy 1970s cars and newer needing restored under any circumstances. It's financial suicide.)
These are just a few examples that come to mind all within the last 6 months. Nice Broughams 87-90 can be had all day long in the $5-7K range depending on mileage, options and most of all COLOR! Black being the most desireable & valuable. Many of cars in the 20-30 year range are at near bottom values at present and are for the most part, very liveable and servicable at modest cost. Of course, certain engines should be avoided within this time frame, ie: HT 4100.
At this writing, there's a gorgeous black 1981 Fleetwood Brougham on eBay that looks exceptional. It'll probably land at around $5,500 or so.
Now if you're a working man an expect to buy a driver quality '50s Caddy Coupe for under $12K, that's probably not going to happen. However a buddy was looking at a '54 Series 62 Sedan- black with power windows and air!! Car went of around $8,500 IIRC and it looked really nice.
I could go on ad infinitum. Point being that you can get a damn respectable Cadillac for a pittance of what the car cost new. Cars that will never be made again and will endow their owners with all the comforts and luxury for which we celebrate The Standard of the World!
Now if you're talking about someone looking to get into a really nice car who's got $500-2000 to spend.... well that's another story.
Excellent post, and as far as I am concerned you are right on the money, pun intended.
I think some of you guys must be missing the point as to why this car is $pecial. It was the first cab off the rank for 57.. . . and a Biarritz to boot. Of course that would attract a premium. I know that I was very interested when it was for sale as an unrestored car a few years back first on ebay and then from a dealer for $75k odd. The free market is the real decider of what something is worth and in this case apparently it is worth quite a bit. So don't bemoan the loss of the hobby of true enthusiasts to dumbed down investors? Heck we don't even know who bought it yet. If you have $590k to buy the Cadillac of my dreams, you must be doing something right. I envy the barstard. It could be one of us. And really for what it is I can't see the problem with the price for the seller or the buyer.
$590k is still nothing like a Jackson Pollock or a Monet but probably a lot more satisfying to own if you are in that money league. Arguing minor details of the restoration and fit and finish are probably irrelevant. Yes , whilst I agree that a couple of gaps could be tightened up or a couple of stickers added or removed it wasn't these factors that attracted the premium ($2grand would fix those problems anyhow and easily rectified). All that aside, try doing a professional restoration these days with 5000 manhours common and $80/$100hr trades and the purchase of the vehicle and parts and see how quickly the numbers start to add up. It still doesn't take away from the fact that it was the first 1957 Cadillac. Wish it was mine.
Quote from: Quentin Hall on March 25, 2013, 05:33:07 AM
I think some of you guys must be missing the point as to why this car is $pecial. It was the first cab off the rank for 57.. . . and a Biarritz to boot. Of course that would attract a premium. I know that I was very interested when it was for sale as an unrestored car a few years back first on ebay and then from a dealer for $75k odd. The free market is the real decider of what something is worth and in this case apparently it is worth quite a bit. So don't bemoan the loss of the hobby of true enthusiasts to dumbed down investors? Heck we don't even know who bought it yet. If you have $590k to buy the Cadillac of my dreams, you must be doing something right. I envy the barstard. It could be one of us. And really for what it is I can't see the problem with the price for the seller or the buyer.
$590k is still nothing like a Jackson Pollock or a Monet but probably a lot more satisfying to own if you are in that money league. Arguing minor details of the restoration and fit and finish are probably irrelevant. Yes , whilst I agree that a couple of gaps could be tightened up or a couple of stickers added or removed it wasn't these factors that attracted the premium ($2grand would fix those problems anyhow and easily rectified). All that aside, try doing a professional restoration these days with 5000 manhours common and $80/$100hr trades and the purchase of the vehicle and parts and see how quickly the numbers start to add up. It still doesn't take away from the fact that it was the first 1957 Cadillac. Wish it was mine.
I wish I could afford it :o :o :o :o Myself, being a true capitalist, enjoyed and agree with your assessment of the price of this car. Just one other thing, it is of my opinion, that for most that want to spend the money for an older classic i.e. 50's, 60's, it is more cost effective to purchase one already restored, and from an owner that has lost interest. Best case scenario, some poor soul that is going through a divorce, and is forced to sell at a bargain basement price.
Quote from: Louis Smith on March 25, 2013, 11:32:34 AM
it is more cost effective to purchase one already restored, and from an owner that has lost interest. Best case scenario, some poor soul that is going through a divorce, and is forced to sell at a bargain basement price.
Even still, to pull that off you need to have some inside knowledge of a potential deal. Anything nicely restored on the open market is still going to be pricey.
Quote from: INTMD8 on March 25, 2013, 01:48:45 PM
Even still, to pull that off you need to have some inside knowledge of a potential deal. Anything nicely restored on the open market is still going to be pricey.
I didn't say it was going to be easy. :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ Difficult, Not Impossible, so says Michael Corleone's Rocco, head of security at the Nevada compound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnZyIHgM1xY
Quote from: Louis Smith on March 25, 2013, 02:04:40 PM
I didn't say it was going to be easy. :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ Difficult, Not Impossible, so says Michael Corleone's bodyguard Rocco.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnZyIHgM1xY
Haha, you are right, just takes some patience and a lot of luck.
Luck is when hard work and opportunity come together.
Crazy!!!!!
Quote from: 52Cadillac on March 25, 2013, 03:39:45 PM
Luck is when hard work and opportunity come together.
Nah, right place at the right time.