Hi Folks,
I thought I might add to the recent discussion around 67 - 70 Eldos that has been going on. Late last year I purchased a beautiful Wisteria 1969 Eldorado and it has finally found its way to its new loving home here in Melbourne, Australia. I cannot describe how excited I am to own one of these cars, especially in this rare colour. I've loved them for years and I know that you fellow 67 - 70 Eldo owners can understand my joy in having one of these special hardtops. Anyway, as with all new owners, I am keen to find out as much history as I can about my new pride and joy. I bought the car through Midwest Car Exchange in Illinois. They apparently bought the car through a deceased estate. The previous owner was John Dannenfelser of Grants Pass in Oregon. Word is that this car was part of a collection of 200. If anyone has any information on this collection and how long John might have owned the car and maybe even who owned it before him, (if I'm really lucky) then I'd be very happy to hear from you. Attached are a few pics of the car outside its new home after its first wash in Australia! Cheers, Greg.
Beautiful car Greg. I know a Buick collector up in Oregon so I passed your request on to him, hoping he might of known John ?
What's the paint code for your car ?
Quote from: Jeff Maltby 4194 on March 07, 2013, 09:55:04 AM
Beautiful car Greg. I know a Buick collector up in Oregon so I passed your request on to him, hoping he might of known John ?
What's the paint code for your car ?
http://automotivemileposts.com/cadillac/paint1969cadi.html
Automotive Mileposts
1969 Cadillac Exterior Paint Colors
PAINT SAMPLE/CODE - COLOR (Ditzler Code)
Image: Sable Black 10 - Sable Black (9400)
Image: Cotillion White 12 - Cotillion White (2058)
Image: Patina Silver Metallic 16 - Patina Silver Metallic (2059)
Image: Phantom Gray Metallic 18 - Phantom Gray Metallic (2060)
Image: Astral Blue Metallic 24 - Astral Blue Metallic (2077)
Image: Athenian Blue Metallic 26 - Athenian Blue Metallic (2062)
Image: Persian Aqua Metallic 28 - Persian Aqua Metallic (2063)
Image: Palmetto Green Metallic 30 - Palmetto Green Metallic (2080)
Image: Rampur Green Metallic 36 - Rampur Green Metallic (2065)
Image: Colonial Yellow 40 - Colonial Yellow (81500)
Image: Cameo Beige Metallic 42 - Cameo Beige Metallic (2066)
Image: Shalimar Gold Metallic 44 - Shalimar Gold Metallic (2082)
Image: Cordovan Metallic 46 - Cordovan Metallic (2067)
Image: Wisteria Metallic 47 - Wisteria Metallic (2068)
Image: San Mateo Red Metallic 48 - San Mateo Red Metallic (71642)
Image: Empire Maroon Metallic 49 - Empire Maroon Metallic (2069)
Image: Sapphire Blue Firemist 90 - Sapphire Blue Firemist* (2070)
Image: Chalice Gold Firemist 94 - Chalice Gold Firemist* (2071)
Image: Biscay Aqua Firemist 96 - Biscay Aqua Firemist* (2072)
Image: Nutmeg Brown Firemist 97 - Nutmeg Brown Firemist* (2073)
Image: Chateau Mauve Firemist 99 - Chateau Mauve Firemist* (2074)
*Firemist colors optional; their cost is $132 extra
1969 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1969 Cadillac Contents
Production/Specifications | Trim | Standard Equipment | Optional Equipment
Select Another Cadillac Year | Main Contents
Thanks for that, Jeff. Louis is on the money, it is paint code 47 so it is certainly an original Wisteria 69 Eldo.
Cheers, Greg.
Quite a beautiful and impressive color. I don't believe I have ever seen or noticed one that color. I remember in 1974 introduced color they called Cranberry Firemist. I really liked the color, but they mostly stocked it with white interiors. While it looked great, and was somewhat popular, I didn't want to deal with a white leather interior.
http://automotivemileposts.com/eldorado/paint1974eldo.html
It was the colour that sold it for us, Louis. This one, too, has the white leather interior. While I do love the look of it, there is already an issue with it. The seller included a second hand Cruise Control switch with the sale, because the one on the car is broken. I think he put it in a box and put it on the back seat. Anyway, there is a black mark on the seat back, where I think the ink from printing on the box leached out onto the leather (Remember, this car spent two months sweating in a sea container). I've tried soap and water and a leather cleaner, but it won't come off. Very annoying on an otherwise pristine seat! I'm thinking I will have to take it to a professional car cleaner and hope that they can clean it off.
Congratulations Greg that is beautiful!
Thank you David! I've loved your '68 for a long time, too!
G'day Greg,
One thing to remember is NEVER SIT IN THE CAR WEARING BLUE JEANS.
Always use seat covers if you have to wear jeans.
Bruce. >:D
Thanks Bruce. I have heard that. What about if the jeans have been washed many times and are faded? Will they still leach out dye?
One could always sit naked upon the seats! :o
Beautiful car!
Nah, it'd be way too sweaty! (Like, that's the only problem! ;))
Getting back to Gregs original question.... I only knew one guy named John Dannenfelser. He passed away some years ago. He lived in Reno for years. I'm not sure he ever lived in Oregon. He never had a 200 car collection & I'm not sure if he ever owned that 69 Eldo. When did the dealer say he owned the car?
Tracing ownership is fun, but VERY hard to do.
Bob
Quote from: GoldEldorado on March 07, 2013, 10:24:13 PM
One could always sit naked upon the seats! :o
Beautiful car!
Its been done before, and in the movies. I remember as a youth seeing the coming attractions for the film "Nude in a White Car". I vividly remember the car as being a white Cadillac convertible.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054131/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
Quote from: Shorty64cad on March 07, 2013, 10:13:07 PM
Thanks Bruce. I have heard that. What about if the jeans have been washed many times and are faded? Will they still leach out dye?
Will still leach through.
Bruce. >:D
Hi Bob, I have a copy of the title naming the owner before Midwest Car Exchange bought this car. It is in the name of John Dannenfelser and the address is in Grants Pass, Oregon. This is what the seller sent to me:
"I’ve attached a copy of past owner, the company that handled his collection sold most of his cars through auction on the west coast, as I recall he had over 200 cars!!"
Could there be two John Dannenfelsers so close together? Especially when yours passed away some years ago and mine was a deceased estate? I can't imagine that Dannenfelser would be a very common name. You're right, Bob, tracking past owners IS hard but fun! Thanks for your input, Greg.
Final answer.
I asked several old timers here in Oregon if they knew John. None did and all said if there was a guy with 200 cars they would know about him. This would cover several towns from Grants Pass to Medford.
If you want to send me the VIN number in a PM to me I will look in a database I have access to and see what comes up. No guarantees but worth a shot.
As for white leather interiors, love them. Had four... 1965 Cadillac Sedan de Ville - all white , 1968 Cadillac Calais Maroon with white interior, 1963 Imperial LeBaron -Forest green with white leather, 1975 Imperial LeBaron - all white.
Eric
There is a place listed called Cadillac Cars & Parts, Ltd. in Sparks, Nevada that show owner John Dannenfelser.
Wonder if this is the same person? Could be an old business listing.
Digging deeper, seems like the one in Nevada may be your person because he was born in 1935 and died in 2008. There is a much younger John born 1958 died in 1979 (age 21) who was from California and died in Denver, CO. Wonder if things got mixed up somewhere?
There is a Miriam born 1916 died 1998 in Eugene, Oregon so wonder if John was her son, lived there a while and moved on to Nevada where he died and the title was just never changed?
Thanks Jeff and Eric,
I've just been going back through my correspondence with the seller and found this:
"Just did some more digging on the collector, Seems that John Dannenfelser passed away in 2008, thus the sale of his collection, He was born in Texas then moved to Reno Nevada and seems that he might have had a business in Oregon, which all three areas are close to each other.
Hope this helps a little bit. If I find more information, ill pass it on."
So, it seems that the John from Nevada is certainly "my" John. My car was definitely titled in Oregon, so perhaps he had a large collection that was housed in Nevada, with a small part of it kept in Oregon? It would explain why no one would know of it there. This is great stuff, thanks to all of you! Eric, I'll send you a PM with the VIN.
Thanks again, Greg.
Greg,
When I first met John in the early 70's, he lived in Salinas, Ca. He then moved to Reno. I'm don't remember when he moved to Salinas or when he moved to Reno. And I'm not sure where he lived before Salinas either. What is the date on that Oregon paperwork?
HTH, Bob
Quote from: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on March 09, 2013, 09:22:50 PM
Greg,
When I first met John in the early 70's, he lived in Salinas, Ca. He then moved to Reno. I'm don't remember when he moved to Salinas or when he moved to Reno. And I'm not sure where he lived before Salinas either. What is the date on that Oregon paperwork?
HTH, Bob
Bob, I told Greg not to rely on what is on the title because it appears it was signed ahead of time then dated at time of sale or his name was forged for the sale... which was through an auction house in 2011. John died in 2008.
Eric,
I'll re-phrase my question. What is the date the title was originally issued?
Bob
Hi Guys, Eric has done a great job finding out more information for me. He found this auction site, which is definitely my car:
http://www.silverauctions.com/auction_view.php?eventid=127&lotid=32430
It is interesting to note that this auction states this is part of a No Reserve "Collection" which is stated for many of the auctions before and after. Could this be the "200" cars as stated by my seller? Bob, did you know John to have heaps of cars? Also Bob, I didn't realise that titles had the year first registered. We don't have that on our registration here. When I looked back at the title, it states that the licence date was 02/13/85 and was released three days after the auction, so John owned the car for 23 years before he passed away in 2008 and it took another three years before it was sold at auction to Midwest Car Exchange and then to me last year. There is a big chunk of the Eldo's life just there, Thanks Guys!
Cheers, Greg.
I bought my 78 DeVille there , 3 years ago. They get in some beautiful cars.
Yours sure had a long trip home.
Roy
Posting of yours when they had it there.
http://www.mcecars.com/viewInventory.cfm?invID=399
Quote from: Shorty64cad on March 10, 2013, 01:25:50 AM
Hi Guys, Eric has done a great job finding out more information for me. He found this auction site, which is definitely my car:
http://www.silverauctions.com/auction_view.php?eventid=127&lotid=32430
It is interesting to note that this auction states this is part of a No Reserve "Collection" which is stated for many of the auctions before and after. Could this be the "200" cars as stated by my seller? Bob, did you know John to have heaps of cars? Also Bob, I didn't realise that titles had the year first registered. We don't have that on our registration here. When I looked back at the title, it states that the licence date was 02/13/85 and was released three days after the auction, so John owned the car for 23 years before he passed away in 2008 and it took another three years before it was sold at auction to Midwest Car Exchange and then to me last year. There is a big chunk of the Eldo's life just there, Thanks Guys!
Cheers, Greg.
Thanks Greg, glad I could help! Did the title say in what state the car was titled prior? Some even have that information or even the last license plate number to give a hint for tracking previous owners. Then you can contact that state's Division of Motor Vehicles registrar office and do a title search for the previous ones back to original sale.
But a car this nice should have had the original owners manual in the glove box and possibly paperwork of original sale in it... where the car was sold (dealer?), or even the original window sticker. If not, you may get lucky and find build sheets somewhere in the car that say the dealer location?
Eric
Thanks Roy and Eric! The title doesn't have any information prior to John's ownership. The only other information that it does have, obviously, is that its licence number for the 28 years or so in John's posession was BDD033. You are right, Roy, it sure has had a journey after leaving Oregon. It went to Nevada to be sold, then went to MCE in Illinois. After I bought it it was trailered to Indiana, where my shipper was based. He loaded it into a sea container and put it on a train to go across country to the port in LA. Once on the ship it went to Seattle, Vancouver, Tokyo, Yanchien (China) and Hong Kong, where the container was unloaded. It was then loaded onto another ship which went to Taiwan and then to Melbourne Australia. The container was then trucked to the outer eastern suburbs (Lilydale) and unloaded. I then picked the car up and drove it around 5 miles to our home, wearing the biggest grin you can imagine, something like this: ;D
What part of Melbourne are you in? We go your way about once a year as we have many friends in Brighton and Carlton. We love Brunetti bakery!
Given the price of petrol in your area, we have nothing to complain about in the states! Your car would be a great tourer in to the gold areas of Bendigo! I'm sure you get lots of looks! I hear there is a CLC Cadillac tour coming up that goes somewhere north of your location.
Great choice of cars!
Wow,that was a trip.
I just had my buddy drive me down to MCE to pick up mine..........ha
200 miles.
Roy
Greg,
Here is all the info I have. John never had 200 cars. I think it's dealer hype. I knew the man for years & never heard him mention Oregon OR having 200 cars. It's irrelavant how many cars he had. You've determined he had yours.
You can pay $50 & get a cars built sheet. This should tell you where the car was sold. There is NO magical sheet in the car that tells the dealers name. If you're lucky, you may find a broadcast card. I'm surprised that auction company was STILL floating the title in his name after all these years. But maybe I shouldn't be surprised. LOL
Are you going to the Australian GN in 2014?
HTH, Bob
Where can one obtain a build sheet? I would like to know if my Eldorado was made for an overseas delivery.
Rob, I am in the outer eastern suburbs in a place called The Basin. If you come to Melbourne often enough, you may know the national park called the Dandenong Ranges. We live in the foothills of that range. I have a brother in Bendigo, so I know it well. It is a great place and high on our list for our GN in 2016, when it is Victoria's turn once again. The next one is this time next year, west of here at Busselton in Western Australia. (About 3000 miles away!) It is a fantastic part of the country and I will be there, but probably not with the Eldo. You've already commented on our fuel prices!!! There are already posts outlining this event and we have been getting many Americans coming Down Under for our Nationals for many years. I strongly encourage everyone to come here and have a great time.
Roy, it was hell of a trip for the old girl, but it's pretty much the only way to get them here!
Bob, thank you very much for your input and I totally agree, I'm not fussed about whether the car was part of a collection or not, I love it for what it is and yes, I will get a build sheet, as I have done with past Caddies that I have owned. See you in WA?? Hope so.
Josh, You can get a build sheet by following the instructions on the CLC home page under"Technical Resources."
Cheers, Greg.
I notice the Eldo is missing the ALC compressor. What is it using for springs and vertical shocks? Normally the rear end would be sagging a little without the level control.
Yes, Glen, you are right. Unfortunately it has been taken out and so far, all I know is that it has pump up shockies on the back. I have to say, though, that it still drives beatifully. Does any one have a pic of the engine bay with the ALC compressor in place? I'd love to see where it sits.
This photo is from the shop manual and shows the location of the compressor.
Quote from: Shorty64cad on March 11, 2013, 01:37:59 AM
Yes, Glen, you are right. Unfortunately it has been taken out and so far, all I know is that it has pump up shockies on the back. I have to say, though, that it still drives beatifully. Does any one have a pic of the engine bay with the ALC compressor in place? I'd love to see where it sits.
If you can pump the rear shocks using a fitting in the back, the original ALC system has likely been replaced with just a set of air shocks. You can use a portable compressor a a fuel station to adjust your ride height.
Piecing together a working system will be a royal PITA. I'm not even trying for my 1968, I have a little compressor that i can use or the nearest fuel station will do when i can find one with free air.
It's a bit of work to bring the 67-70 Cadillac Eldorado ALC rear suspension back to working order but it might be worth it. I think Glenn, who posted earlier knows as much as anyone on this subject.
What I learned on my 68 Eldorado was that the rear single leaf springs had lost their resiliency or temper and the car was sitting very low on it's haunches. I'm sure my pump petered out trying to keep thing level. (the first owner also towed a boat, which hastened the springs demise) We ended up replacing the single leaf rear springs with a 3 leaf units on each side to return the car to its intended ride height. A rebuilt pump and regulator was installed along with new air shocks , air lines, and the height sensing valve on the rear. As I recall there is at least 250 PSI going from the pump to the air shocks
Thanks Glen for the pic.
I'm with Mike on this one. It drives beautifully. I've had cars before that I've installed with air shocks and I've always liked the ride and the Eldo is no different. It's had a valve installed just under the rear licence plate, so it is very easy to access. To get it back to normal, I'd have to source and ship parts from the States and find someone here prepared to take the job on. It ain't happening anytime soon! Maybe it would be a good project for the future.
You pay for air over there? I've never heard of that here, which makes it even easier to put air in the shocks. Any service station will do.
With the advent of self service gas stations, we lost the free air pump at most filling stations. I ended up buying an air compressor for the shop and a portable tank.
By they way, I'll keep an eye out for the ALS components and let you know as they show up from time to time on Ebay. Installing the stuff is not hard. Not something you need to do right away but the parts are out there if you decide to do it.
I think you live in a great area there in the Dandenong Ranges basin. We have been thru there on numerous occasions.
Thank you, Rob.
We do love living here. There is nothing better than to jump in the Caddy and drive up into the hills for lunch at one of the very good restaurants or pubs that are scattered throughout. Add in the Yarra Valley wine region just north of here and you've got it all! Cheers, Greg.
Went into two garages here yesterday to put some air in my rear shocks.
The first one had a 60 PSI limit on their hose, and the second one suffered a compressor break down last week, and hadn't replaced it. The third one was good to go, and free as well.
But, half way through the trip, had a steel belt separation in the left rear, and the tread started to fall to pieces. Lucky it wasn't on the way to Busselton though.
Bruce. >:D
Getting the parts is the hard part and then making sure the compressor works OK is the next problem. I can advise you on that part.
The three components are compressor (with integrated regulator); level valve and shocks. The shocks can be the Hijackers sold by Gabriel number 39122 or 49122 for the 67 â€" 70 Eldos. But if you have shocks that work you can use them.
It’s nice to not have to fill the shocks and have them work automatically. I’ve been keeping mine working since 1973 when I bought the car.
Delco also sells the Hijackers with their name on them. I got the Delcos from Rock Auto.
But in the end... What can you do right?
Thanks for the offer, Glen. I'll probably leave it as is for the foreseeable future but I may just keep an eye out for the parts. I like bragging about Cadillacs and ALC from the sixties is something to brag about so you never know!
Quote from: Shorty64cad on March 11, 2013, 06:29:07 PM
Thanks Glen for the pic.
I'm with Mike on this one. It drives beautifully. I've had cars before that I've installed with air shocks and I've always liked the ride and the Eldo is no different. It's had a valve installed just under the rear licence plate, so it is very easy to access. To get it back to normal, I'd have to source and ship parts from the States and find someone here prepared to take the job on. It ain't happening anytime soon! Maybe it would be a good project for the future.
You pay for air over there? I've never heard of that here, which makes it even easier to put air in the shocks. Any service station will do.
If you do get the ALC replaced / installed, be mindful that as robtroxel stated above, a properly working ALC can pump up to 250PSI into the rear shocks. Most modern air shocks cant' handle more than 150-180PSI. you'll blow those shocks.
I find these high pressures amazing.
35 - 40 pounds in my 78 and my car is up and inch.
Roy
Quote from: Roy Schroeder on March 12, 2013, 07:26:48 AM
I find these high pressures amazing.
35 - 40 pounds in my 78 and my car is up and inch.
Roy
Roy, the older cars' ALC systems generated much higher pressures. And they used engine vacuum of all things...
Quote from: Shorty64cad on March 11, 2013, 07:47:27 PM
Thank you, Rob.
We do love living here. There is nothing better than to jump in the Caddy and drive up into the hills for lunch at one of the very good restaurants or pubs that are scattered throughout. Add in the Yarra Valley wine region just north of here and you've got it all! Cheers, Greg.
We stayed at Yering Station a few years ago! Love the winery and the restaurant there. That is a worthy Cadillac destination!
The pressures are pretty amazing, alright. Don't worry, if I do reinstall the system, I'll make sure that I know everything I need to know, and get it done right. BTW, how do you generate 250 PSI pressure from vacuum????
Rob, I've sent you a PM.
Cheers, Greg.
The compressor will stall at 250 PSI or so (stalling is the way it regulates its output pressure) depending on the engine vacuum. On the compressor is a regulator that drops the pressure to 125 PSI which is acceptable for the super lift and hijacker shocks. But that pressure won’t get to the shocks unless the car is loaded to heavy to for the shocks to lift it up to correct height. The leveler valve shuts off the air when the body is at the correct height. If the valve leaks and tries to pump the shocks up the exhaust valve will open and dump the air until the body comes down.
There is little difference between the shocks originally installed by GM and what is available on the market now.
I see now. It creates 250 , then drops it to 125, then only lets in what is needed to raise the car.
Roy
My DVC levels out at b/w 70 and 125 PSI. It depends on what i have in the trunk and how many people I have in it.
I know I am late to the party but I have to add that in 1984 I had a '69 Eldo that was originally that Wisteria color with purple leather interior! The was repainted navy blue sometime in its life but the wisteria was under there. The car had little life left, most likely it is a washing machine now.
Dave Rubin
Wow! The purple interior couldn't have been original, could it? It would have looked amazing. what a shame: A) that it was repainted and B) that it is probably no longer around. I know that the colour is one of those "love/hate" kind of things, but I am firmly on the "love" side. I'm taking mine out to dinner tonight. (and I'm letting my wife join us. :D )