These look too out of place and ugly. Going back to the original tali lights.
Safety first.
Bill - were you trying some complete after maket tail lights or just the LED replacement bulbs? I am still debating on the bulbs but looking at some vids on LED lights they just seem too 'modern' for an old Caddy.
Quote from: Blade on March 19, 2013, 08:35:50 AM
Bill - were you trying some complete after market tail lights or just the LED replacement bulbs? I am still debating on the bulbs but looking at some vids on LED lights they just seem too 'modern' for an old Caddy.
Blade,
I found some 3" diameter red LED brake/tail lights. I mounted one in the opening. Had about 25-30 LEDs. Looked ugly. Same lights you see on buses and semis.
I have ordered LED bulbs that will fit in the original bulb sockets. Will see what they look like. Hopefully like the original bulbs, only brighter.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261182612824?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Let me also state that installing high wattage Halogen lights behind a plastic not designed for the heat is a bad idea.
The LED bulbs give off very little heat in comparison.
Bill, what about the current draw on these bulbs.
When I went to a couple of sites that sold them , they said you might have to buy a in-line resister to get the turn signals to work, because the LED's didn't draw enough current.
Have you ran across this ?
Did your turn signals work with the one you had tried ?
Roy
Bill - let me know please how they work out for you. I am also all for the LEDs with their low consumption, low heat and long life however for an old car the standard bulbs might just look better, giving that old style look as they dim slower. It really is difficult to decide. :-\
Good point on the halogen bulbs!
Roy: I thought the resistors were already built into the bulbs. Especially important to know because most old cars use the same bulb for light, break light and turn signal.
Tibor, that is just what I read at the sites. Also heard it from others.
It may flash, but fast, like when you have a burnt out bulb front or back. It makes the flasher flash faster. Don't want to say that ten times fast.....ha
Just curious. Wouldn't mind them in my car. I think brighter is safer, but that's just me.
Roy
Regarding flashers, you will probably need a variable load flasher if you change to LED's. NAPA has 2: GRO 44890 with 3 terminals and GRO 44891 with 2 terminals. Both are 12 volt. They might work for you.
As far as the resistor, I don't know, but saw some LEDs advertised as "error free". Apparently some of the later cars with computerized systems otherwise read errors with the LED bulbs unless these bulbs are "error free."
I have ordered several different bulbs with from 5 LEDs to 24. Not sure which will be best. These bulbs are coming from HK, so it may take a week or so.
Will let you all know when I get the bulbs and try them out.
I was going to look up what your tail lights look exactly and came across this - might want to tackle this project after the LEDs: ;D
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3891197/1958-cadillac-eldorado/
Quote from: Blade on March 19, 2013, 09:42:38 PM
I was going to look up what your tail lights look exactly and came across this - might want to tackle this project after the LEDs: ;D
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3891197/1958-cadillac-eldorado/
I have seen this bastardization of a fine car, a 1958 Brougham. :o :'( It probably does have LED lights. :D I would imagine that it also probably has the undercarriage LED lighting that shows it is floating on a blue cloud at night. ??? Perhaps the little "dingle berry" hanging balls when the top is up. ::) ;D
Hope that I am not stepping on any toes, ::) Is this fine car yours? :D 8) :D <grin>
I'm totally with you, I would never have the heart to rip apart a rare car like that. If it was some completely destroyed junk yard find high production number I would not mind modifying some things but such a rare car should always stay as original as the day it rolled off the line. No matter how much you weld to it, cut from it, reshape, distort, customize, it will NEVER have the value of a true original. Maybe this person didn't know how rare that car was?
When I purchased my '59 I also had plans to change a few things around but when I realized how complete and original this car was (98% all numbers match) I immediately knew it would be a shame to change anything. Of course I will do some temporary conversions for safe driving (dual break lines, seat belts, LED lights?) but will restore and keep every single original part and will keep the option to quickly convert these back again.
Quote from: Roy Schroeder on March 19, 2013, 03:26:47 PM
Tibor, that is just what I read at the sites. Also heard it from others.
It may flash, but fast, like when you have a burnt out bulb front or back. It makes the flasher flash faster. Don't want to say that ten times fast.....ha
Just curious. Wouldn't mind them in my car. I think brighter is safer, but that's just me.
Roy
So Roy, have you experimented with some LEDs in yours yet?
Quote from: Blade on March 20, 2013, 09:05:17 AM
I'm totally with you, I would never have the heart to rip apart a rare car like that. If it was some completely destroyed junk yard find high production number I would not mind modifying some things but such a rare car should always stay as original as the day it rolled off the line. No matter how much you weld to it, cut from it, reshape, distort, customize, it will NEVER have the value of a true original. Maybe this person didn't know how rare that car was?
When I purchased my '59 I also had plans to change a few things around but when I realized how complete and original this car was (98% all numbers match) I immediately knew it would be a shame to change anything. Of course I will do some temporary conversions for safe driving (dual break lines, seat belts, LED lights?) but will restore and keep every single original part and will keep the option to quickly convert these back again.
Unfortunately for the car, it was a very nice car to start with, in a uncommon color. So the cost was high to acquire and then double or so to make a mess of it. When money does not matter...strange things happen.
Worst custom example of a Brougham I have ever seen.
David
No, I don't have LED's in mine.
I did happen to turn on Motor Week, and the guy, Pat Dawson ?, was talking about LED's.
I just caught the tail end of it. He said if your going to use them you will need the resistor with them.
The resistor is in the ground line. It is ceramic for the older cars, and aluminum for the newer cars. That was all I heard him say. Dont know the difference in them.
Take it from there. This is all new to me too.
Roy
Bill, did you get your bulbs in yet ?
Roy
Inquiring minds want to know. :-X
That abomination was probably just a body dropped onto a custom chassis. The wheels are from a late 90s - early 2000s era DTS. I highly doubt it was a complete car, but it might have been.
This is basically what happens when you cross too much $$$ with absolutely no sense ::)
Quote from: Blade on March 20, 2013, 09:05:17 AMI'm totally with you, I would never have the heart to rip apart a rare car like that. If it was some completely destroyed junk yard find high production number I would not mind modifying some things but such a rare car should always stay as original as the day it rolled off the line. No matter how much you weld to it, cut from it, reshape, distort, customize, it will NEVER have the value of a true original. Maybe this person didn't know how rare that car was?
Originality is a much abused term and for better or worse it's his car to do with what he likes. Do you want to keep the original 55 year old tires on your 58? Fake marked new tires are
not original, and non speed rated bias plies are not safe at interstate speeds for long trips. So you chose based on your requirements and preferences.
Quote from: Blade on March 20, 2013, 09:05:17 AM
When I purchased my '59 I also had plans to change a few things around but when I realized how complete and original this car was (98% all numbers match) I immediately knew it would be a shame to change anything. Of course I will do some temporary conversions for safe driving (dual break lines, seat belts, LED lights?) but will restore and keep every single original part and will keep the option to quickly convert these back again.
So Blade, what is the mathematical calculation that led you to a conclude that your car is 98% original?
Numbers matching is a billsh!t term as well. It's either the original item in or on the car or it isn't. Do you have all the
original cast iron & aluminum main items that comprise your engine and transmission? Numbers matching is a
bs game for chevy and ford owners to play with their corvettes, camaros and mustangs.
If I go by weight of original vs non-original items in my car, I could claim that my car is 99.5% original (or more, but I haven't done the calculation) because the paint weighs next to nothing compared to the sheet metal, and the pistons & camshaft similarly do not weigh much as compared to the weight of the engine and transmission. 8)
As to putting LEDs in a much older car, well, that's a personal preference. They do light up very quick and bright compared to incandescent bulbs (if you have enough of them), but boy do they cost a bunch to replace.
Me, I like the way the light seems to 'flow' out from the centrally located bulbs on the sides of the 68 when the lights are turned on or when the signal or brakes are activated. It would also be quite difficult to duplicate the functionality of that white reverse lamp at the bottom of the 67-68 housing. That is a cool transition to watch when the car is put in reverse on these years.
Quote from: cadillacmike68 on March 28, 2013, 10:46:55 AM
<SNIP>
As to putting LEDs in a much older car, well, that's a personal preference. They do light up very quick and bright compared to incandescent bulbs (if you have enough of them), but boy do they cost a bunch to replace.
Me, I like the way the light seems to 'flow' out from the centrally located bulbs on the sides of the 68 when the lights are turned on or when the signal or brakes are activated. It would also be quite difficult to duplicate the functionality of that white reverse lamp at the bottom of the 67-68 housing. That is a cool transition to watch when the car is put in reverse on these years.
I've actually been considering replacing incandescent bulbs with LED in the cars in our collection to reduce the heat exposure to the surrounding components. I already have a couple of semi-melted light sockets on our '02 GMC (the DRL sockets, which at least one is usually burned out on all these trucks on the road) and have noticed a LOT of heat on the face of the stereo in a couple of our other cars when the lights are on. I figure that replacing the bulbs with LED would reduce the amount of heat cycling the sockets and other components see, which I can only see as a good thing.
Getting the color output is important to keeping the incandescent 'look', and some vendors like Super Brite LEDs do have some builbs with different shade output, but as you said, they are expensive. While the lights _should_ last pretty much a lifetime, and will only become cheaper with time, replacing the interior lights in a 95 Impala SS, for instance is north of $100. We have 10 cars to do, so the conversion will take a while. :o
Quote from: Roy Schroeder on March 26, 2013, 10:11:07 AM
Bill, did you get your bulbs in yet ?
Roy
Roy, Still waiting for the damn things. Coming from Hong Kong. Will post as soon as I get them!
Quote from: cadillacmike68 on March 28, 2013, 10:46:55 AM
So Blade, what is the mathematical calculation that led you to a conclude that your car is 98% original?
Numbers matching is a billsh!t term as well. It's either the original item in or on the car or it isn't. Do you have all the original cast iron & aluminum main items that comprise your engine and transmission? Numbers matching is a bs game for chevy and ford owners to play with their corvettes, camaros and mustangs.
If I go by weight of original vs non-original items in my car, I could claim that my car is 99.5% original (or more, but I haven't done the calculation) because the paint weighs next to nothing compared to the sheet metal, and the pistons & camshaft similarly do not weigh much as compared to the weight of the engine and transmission. 8)
So Mike woke up with the wrong foot or his car didn't start this morning?
My estimate is based on that I can count the number of items missing from the car on two hands; aside from one hubcap and the original jack all of these are small parts such as one cigarette lighter (out of four), the choke heater hose, the Cadillac crest from the hood, dome light cover, one door lock knob ... etc. And no, I don't include items that are regularely replaced such as spark plugs, oil filters, air filters, light bulbs ... etc which were obviously replaced. Although the car was barely used since the 70s, I even assume the headlights and probably most of the bulbs are at least from the 70s - believe me they look like it too! Also the fact that it took me 45 minutes to take the four tail lights out and apart (three small screws per light total, originally estimated 5 minute job) also suggested that they weren't taken out and apart for decades, yet three out of four bulbs are still working! The rubber seals were deterriorated and fused with the palstic bullet lights (see pic). But I'll try to track down the numbers stamped on the bulbs and headlights. By original, as most people, I mean the parts that do not wear off and requires normal regular replacements. And yes, at this point even the paint and the spare wheel are the factory original (the paint will be gone due to fading).
So there ... explained!
Quote from: Blade on April 02, 2013, 12:57:14 AM
So Mike woke up with the wrong foot or his car didn't start this morning?
My estimate is based on that I can count the number of items missing from the car on two hands; aside from one hubcap and the original jack all of these are small parts such as one cigarette lighter (out of four), the choke heater hose, the Cadillac crest from the hood, dome light cover, one door lock knob ... etc. And no, I don't include items that are regularely replaced such as spark plugs, oil filters, air filters, light bulbs ... etc which were obviously replaced. Although the car was barely used since the 70s, I even assume the headlights and probably most of the bulbs are at least from the 70s - believe me they look like it too! Also the fact that it took me 45 minutes to take the four tail lights out and apart (three small screws per light total, originally estimated 5 minute job) also suggested that they weren't taken out and apart for decades, yet three out of four bulbs are still working! The rubber seals were deterriorated and fused with the palstic bullet lights (see pic). But I'll try to track down the numbers stamped on the bulbs and headlights. By original, as most people, I mean the parts that do not wear off and requires normal regular replacements. And yes, at this point even the paint and the spare wheel are the factory original (the paint will be gone due to fading).
So there ... explained!
Not quite, the engine, is it the
original cast iron or just "numbers matching"?
When you wrote numbers matching my Bullsh!t meter spun so far out of control, the helo pilots here wanted to use it as an auxiliary engine on a UH60 :P
Also, just because something is not missing doesn't mean it was never replaced. You have 54 year radiator and heater hoses in your 1959? Do you ever drive it? your battery is 54 years old as well? We won't get into the tires. Oh oh the bullsh!t meter is starting to spin up again.....
Otherwise fair enough.
BTW I have no idea if my cars start, being 7,000 miles away from them - which is why I'm always getting up from the wrong side of the bed! :P
Wifey gave me a scare last month when she said the 1968 wouldn't start. That sent the OhSh!t meter into overdrive. :o
Wow , Mike, lighten up. You run around at this site nit picking what people post on here.
I got what he was saying. He wants to keep the car looking original. I don't think he meant it is original.
The only original Cadillacs out there were plucked from the assembly line with less than one mile on them and never driven again. Otherwise they are all similar to what they looked like from new. I doubt if anyone has an original car .
If you want to nit pick what people say, I could nit pick about you being 7000 miles from home.
Since the U.S. is only about 3300 miles long, you must be sitting out in the ocean someplace.
See, I knew what you meant. Your along way from home, but you didn't give an accurate quote.
Roy
Thanks Roy, yes I was pretty much going to say the same thing, this is a pointless argument, most people knew what I was talking about. Again, by original we mean it has the original parts put on at the assembly line, obviously do not including items replaced by normal wear - as I mentioned before - so the tires and the battery are not the original, however yes, the radiator is. This car has less than 80,000 miles in at and the last lubing service was done on it in 1978, at 74,900 miles (see pics). Now you could start picking on maybe someone just wrote those numbers there if you want to but I won't. Too many things pointing to the same story, I could start a whole list, but already mentioned and showed a picture of the tail lights. Another fact is that one of the only two documents found in the glove compartment were 1) a reacall letter for the pitman arm the letter is dated June 12, 1978 (and yes, this is an 'original' document sent from GM) and 2) the other was the recent tire replacements so the car can be driven when sold.
Then like you said, we could pick on Mike as much as well, such as I did not say his car didn't start for him, I only said his car didn't start that morning. Could have been his wife or someone else trying. See? Completely pointless childish arguments.... I knew what he meant when he said he is 7000 miles away. To me, enough said.
With that I'm back to working on my Cad ...
Quote from: Roy Schroeder on April 02, 2013, 08:16:29 AM
Wow , Mike, lighten up. You run around at this site nit picking what people post on here.
I got what he was saying. He wants to keep the car looking original. I don't think he meant it is original.
The only original Cadillacs out there were plucked from the assembly line with less than one mile on them and never driven again. Otherwise they are all similar to what they looked like from new. I doubt if anyone has an original car .
If you want to nit pick what people say, I could nit pick about you being 7000 miles from home.
Since the U.S. is only about 3300 miles long, you must be sitting out in the ocean someplace.
See, I knew what you meant. Your along way from home, but you didn't give an accurate quote.
Roy
Well, If I was in Hawaii I would be approx 6,000 miles away, but I'm in the other direction. 7,314 miles east of home to be precise. I'm in the mid-east desert if you really want to know.
As for nit picking, I still say 'numbers matching' is a bs term for chevy and ford owners to play with. Blade's car is most likely very nice, most likely nicer than mine. And it's more original too, especially since mine has been re-painted.
As an information systems professional and professional logistician, I have had to be very precise in my work over the past 30 years in all areas. You can't tell a program to add 10% to an account when it is supposed to be 9.9%, do that enough and well, you get the picture. Likewise, if we are off (say on the short end) by 2 gallons per day per vehicle with 20,000 vehicles, that's a 40,000 gallons
per day shortfall, which will have immediate impacts on the battlefield.
So I get a bit too precise for some,, to quote Steve Windwood of traffic: "don't worry too, it'll happen to you" , "We were children once playing with toys"... 8)
Anyone remember that song?
Bill, did your lights arrive? I still have a huge stash of old Guide lamps , everything except the friggin 97A amber (painted not natural amber) used for the first time in 1968s in the front side markers. Impossible to get, so i got some orange paint and painted a bunch of 97s. they work fine.
But they are not original :P
Your a luckier man than me.
When I was in Nam , back in 68, we didn't get to go on any computers , or cell phones.
Lucky to get the mail every week......ha
Bill,
Any news on the new lights? I am very curious about your opinion about them and if you have them already could you post some pics perhaps please?
I also talked to my brother about the LED lights and he suggested that he will custom build some for me, he is an engineer and works a lot with LEDs designing circuit boards. Right now I am considering this as the best option and most likely will go with that, he can convert all the lights (except headlights of course). If you don't like your new ones maybe I can also ask him if he is up for some '58 custom lights, he said he can build any size and shape.
Blade~
Been researching this for a while. My original intent was to find some brighter bulbs. The LED bulbs have problems. Don't see any as bright as the incandescents. There are other questions, but I do not see using them for our old cars.
The 1034 and 1157 Bulbs put out 32 candle power on the high filament (blinker and brake) and 3 candle power on the low (tali light).
I have turned up a lamp that will fit the standard bulb socket the 1157 and 1034 fit. OEM Honda Car bulb, not motorcycle, not aftermarket MUST BE OEM 34906-SLO-A01. Will put our 43 candlepower and 3.5 candlepower.
I can't guarantee it, but the heat output should be safe for your lens. Not melting hot like halogen, which I do not recommend.
Also check your wiring for voltage drop at the socket. This is very important. Intensity drops exponentially with voltage drop. You may need to run new wiring, get clean grounds. and be sure your brake light switch is making full contact, passing full voltage.
Spray the inside of your reflectors with matte sliver or white and you will get the brightest output possible.
Don't waste your time or money on LED with present technology.
I'll take some pictures in the next few days that will show the difference. I also will run some temperature differences.
Thanks Bill, I was just going to buy some new tail light bulbs today, yesterday I got the backup lights apart for the first time (wouldn't suprise me if the bulbs were still the factory :o ). Both of them are rusted but I can see some numbers on one of them and it seems like it is 1003. Both are burnt out and the glasses are completely black so I can't seen any writing on there
I am also opting for regular bulbs instead of the LEDs as I just like the dimming as they turn on and off, I think they just give that old look to an old car. Here is a good comparision video I found on Youtube, I think the LEDs look just too modern:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKyE6zsGCPc
I have seen some people using aluminium foil in the back as reflectors, they might also work temporarily, I still have some rust on mine so for now I might go for that - till I get to the restoration of the lights.
So today I'll check out these Honda bulbs you were suggesting, sounds like they are are good substitution for the tail lights.
Thanks Bill and please post some pictures if you got yours replaced.
Quote from: Blade on July 08, 2013, 01:32:08 PM
Thanks Bill, I was just going to buy some new tail light bulbs today, yesterday I got the backup lights apart for the first time (wouldn't suprise me if the bulbs were still the factory :o ). Both of them are rusted but I can see some numbers on one of them and it seems like it is 1003. Both are burnt out and the glasses are completely black so I can't seen any writing on there
I am also opting for regular bulbs instead of the LEDs as I just like the dimming as they turn on and off, I think they just give that old look to an old car. Here is a good comparision video I found on Youtube, I think the LEDs look just too modern:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKyE6zsGCPc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKyE6zsGCPc)
I have seen some people using aluminium foil in the back as reflectors, they might also work temporarily, I still have some rust on mine so for now I might go for that - till I get to the restoration of the lights.
So today I'll check out these Honda bulbs you were suggesting, sounds like they are are good substitution for the tail lights.
Thanks Bill and please post some pictures if you got yours replaced.
I will post some pics soon. My car is going in for upholstery, soon.
I'd put some dielectric grease on the new bulbs. Will stop ant future rust. Looks awfull, works great. And be sure to check your voltage at the tail light. Bead blasting works great to remove rust and give your reflectors a great matte finish. This is what you want for the best light output.
OK ... so I went to a local car parts store and we looked up that light bulb, it was the modern style full glass no brass bottom it would not work in my sockets. You sure that's the correct part number? We were able to identify that those bulbs go into the 1998 Honda Civic DX but they have different sockets.
Picture shows one of my lights taken apart, shows the socket for the 1034.
Folks,
I’ve found the following article by SlantSixDan (converted to a pdf file) at the Slant Six Forum on the main topic discuss here. Although it is primarily covering Mopar models the details and resolutions could easily apply to other brands in general including our Caddies. 8)
The author mentions not to use a Chrome/Mylar reflector tape, however I’ve found on several other forums that folks have use the Chrome/Mylar tape on the reflectors and swear they had notice an increase in the brightness.
Just providing additional feedback/data on the main topic, enjoy it.
Read this BEFORE you leap:
http://www.ebay.com/gds/LED-Lighting-Myths-Facts-and-Common-Problems/10000000004575147/g.html
Regards,
Here is a view of my former (sniff sniff :'() '59 with just the parking lamps on - under bright ambient lighting.
I hand polished all four bullet lenses, cleaned out dust/dirt accumulations within and reflectors and replaced all four bulbs. No LEDs or other such nonsense here. Just good 'ole pure stock lighting as the Cadillac Gods intended. Again- this photo shows the bullets with only the parking lamps illuminated - NOT the brake lamps which are brighter and NOT in the dark.
Bright enough?
Eric, looks awesome.......what did you use to hand polish the lenses? I'd love to get the dull oxidation off my bullet lenses and never knew what to try. I even have 8 NOS ones that could use a freshening up and don't want to ruin them.
Jeff
Thanks Jeff.
I've always obtained excellent results with these Meguiars products- first with the Diamond Cut Compound followed by the Deep Crystal Polish finished off with a coat of wax.
Unless you're using high speed buffer or highly abrasive compounds, it's near impossible to cause any damage by hand.
When I got the car, the taillamp bezels were all coated with greenish film from the car having been sitting in a barn for 20+ years. I dipped them in an acid what we ordinarily use to clean wire wheel covers and used a toothbrush to clean the grime between the "fingers", then rinsed them with water. Then an application of Meguiars All Metal Polish and they came out beautifully.