Hello :) From what I have read it seems they made like 20,000 convertibles in 1966 and of these 2500 were fleetwood eldorado's (am I saying this wrong?)..should it be eldorado fleetwood? I am looking at one with wood on the door panels. Is there just 2 models of the convertible for 1966..base and fleetwood eldorado? Is there just an eldorado convertible or fleetwood convertible or are they only fleetwood eldorado? Confused! What are the differences? Thanks again. :)Nel
Hi Nel, I'm not an expert on the '66s but far as I know Fleetwoods only came in 4 door hardtop sedans and the factory limousines. The convertibles in that year were only the DeVilles and the Eldorados.
Are you looking at a particular car to purchase? Maybe we can assist you.
I’m not an expert either but the CLC directory shows that the style number on the body plate would be 66-68467 for the Eldo convertable and 66-68367 for the Deville convertible.
Also the VIN would have an E in it for the Eldo. The Deville would have an F.
1966 was the last year of the RWD Eldorado, and it was offered only as a convertible with VINs starting with "E6".
Part of the confusion was that Cadillac brought the Eldorado under the "Fleetwood series" in 1965 or 66. Thus all Eldorados of this time period - through 1972, were technically "Fleetwood Eldorados", for whatever that's worth. For 1965 and 66, there was the "Fleetwood Eldorado Convertible". In 1967 the convertible was dropped when the Eldorado went to front wheel drive. When the convertible came back in 1971 (now as a FWD) there were two bodies (but the coupe was never called the Seville again) , and for a couple more years they were still technically "Fleetwood Eldorados"
99% of folks didn't bother with the "Fleetwood" and just referred to them as Eldorados. I think by 1973 Cadillac finally gave it up, and just referred to them as Eldorados once more. By this time the convertible had been priced higher than anything except the Fleetwood 75s.
If your car has an "E" VIN number, It's an Eldorado. If it has an "F", it's a DeVille.
Check out this chart and click on Cadillac overview you can see all there different series and body styles over the years 1958-1975:
http://dcl16.nl/cf/
This is a great site, and its where i got my 60s and 70s Cadillac "Masters" degree from! :P
I got the PhD from having the actual cars for some 24 years ... 8)
My short answer is, that I think Eldorado's were part of the fleetwood series. Look at the badge. Does it have the wreath and crest signifying the fleetwood series. Look for the word Eldorado on the lower front fender.
Louis, that's probably correct for 65 as well as 66. I know that in 66 Eldorados were in the "Fleetwood series" but I can't get to the dutch site right now to look at the brochures, because the morons at netcon are blocking it >:(
Did the earlier (61-64) Eldorado convertibles have the wreath as well? I can see it on the sides of a 63 Biarritz from this site, so probably yes:
http://www.lov2xlr8.no/cadillac.html
And this is from wiki, but we all know how much that is worth: :P
Eldorado's bore the Fleetwood designation from 1965 through 1972.
Mike is right. The Eldorado was a "Fleetwood Eldorado" then. The base convertible was in the "Deville" series. So there were two convertibles that year, two different series. The Eldo was just a tarted up Deville though. Much much nicer interior with those heavy wood door panels. Usually well optioned. The Eldo was easily distinguished from the exterior by its lack of mid level bodyside moldings. It had lower moldings plus rocker moldings that the Deville did not have.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.staticflickr.com%2F6111%2F6238669303_840231a30e_b.jpg&hash=75482315f7393304cfc88baf12ecad82516cf27a)
Above: Eldorado
Below: Deville
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.staticflickr.com%2F6227%2F6237867577_e979f878a3_b.jpg&hash=d872db85fe4003c77fbced4ca74861bc89ac9c2a)
Front and rear visual trim differences.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.staticflickr.com%2F4127%2F4948283028_e20443bbbc_b.jpg&hash=d629a90a6a2da924556f4fa74337095cc70551cb)
Hood emblems different. Deville vs. Fleetwood.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.staticflickr.com%2F6158%2F6239189888_2983006186_b.jpg&hash=003e0945ba61b30dc740d182ab1cf04b8a8e36fd)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.staticflickr.com%2F6228%2F6237867227_4642cfbef9_b.jpg&hash=3a132aa9f981954db8adafbc5e6b102a85414dbf)
Trunk emblems different, plus different decorative horizontal grilles in the bumper.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.staticflickr.com%2F6172%2F6239189146_3443950c68_b.jpg&hash=e576665acec6fc55585960f24917f53907587feb)
Quote from: David Smith on April 18, 2013, 06:26:39 AM
The Eldo was just a tarted up Deville though...
Ooooooh.....Ouch. ;D
Quote from: cadillacmike68 on April 18, 2013, 03:20:25 AM
Louis, that's probably correct for 65 as well as 66. I know that in 66 Eldorados were in the "Fleetwood series" but I can't get to the dutch site right now to look at the brochures, because the morons at netcon are blocking it >:(
Did the earlier (61-64) Eldorado convertibles have the wreath as well? I can see it on the sides of a 63 Biarritz from this site, so probably yes:
The Eldorado officially became part of the Fleetwood Series in 1964 and was no longer referred to as a Biarritz.
The 1964 Fleetwood Series included the Eldorado, 60 Special and Series 75.
1963 Fleetwood 60 Special and Eldorado Biarritz had gotten exterior wreath & crest ornamentation in 1963; Series 75 didn't get it until 1964. HTH
Quote from: ericdev CLC#8621 on April 18, 2013, 11:18:20 AM
The Eldorado officially became part of the Fleetwood Series in 1964 and was no longer referred to as a Biarritz.
The 1964 Fleetwood Series included the Eldorado, 60 Special and Series 75.
1963 Fleetwood 60 Special and Eldorado Biarritz had gotten exterior wreath & crest ornamentation in 1963; Series 75 didn't get it until 1964. HTH
It was on another post that earlier Cadillacs, I believe the '62 Fleetwoods, had as an option the crest and wreath embroidered on the rear arm rest.
The wreath and crest came in the '62 Fleetwood 75 and 60 Special with the all wool broadcloth interior.
'64 was also the first year the series 62 convertible became part of the DeVille line, which it always shared the same trim level as the Coupe and Sedan deVille anyway.
Don't forget that the second year 1954 Eldorado basically looked like a dressed-up series 62 convertible and then the Eldorado got a distinctive body for '55 through '58. A lot of that exclusiveness was lost on the '59 Eldorados where they shared the same basic body... Sorry to say it but...
Thanks to everyone for the wonderful information. I will look at the vin on the car and go from there. Will try to post some pictures soon. Thanks again!! :)
"... Fleetwood 60 Special and Eldorado Biarritz had gotten exterior wreath & crest ornamentation beginning in 1963..."
Quote from: ericdev on April 18, 2013, 11:09:05 AM
Ooooooh.....Ouch. ;D
LOL, No disrespect intended. But it is true. The 55, 56, 57 & 58 Eldorados had their own unique rear sheetmetal. Even the 64 Eldo had it's own unique style without the rear fender skirts. But the 54, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65 and 66s were just trim packages on the basic body of the series 62/Devilles.
Quote from: David Smith on April 18, 2013, 08:37:51 PM
LOL, No disrespect intended. But it is true. The 55, 56, 57 & 58 Eldorados had their own unique rear sheetmetal. Even the 64 Eldo had it's own unique style without the rear fender skirts. But the 54, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65 and 66s were just trim packages on the basic body of the series 62/Devilles.
True enough, although the Eldo did receive a better appointed interior.
Just be sure to say the "tarted-up" thing very quietly when standing near a '59 Ritz owner...shhhhhh ;D
Quote from: ericdev on April 18, 2013, 09:02:24 PM
True enough, although the Eldo did receive a better appointed interior.
That's what he meant by "tarted up" :P
The Eldos of the period had the same engines and chassis, nothing special to set them off there.
That said, some of those interiors were quite nice. But then again so were the late 60s DeVille Convertibles (leather interiors with real wood in the 68s) and Fleetwood 60 Specials & Broughams , and they had the 472 in them, without the 71 & later emissions bullshite. 8)
"Tarted up" or not, I'll be more than happy to relieve anybody of all those pesky RWD Eldos with shared sheetmetal with their "lesser" siblings: '54, '59, '60, '61, '62, '63, '65, '66- all day long. 8)
These cars are not lacking in high demand for no good reason.
Quote from: Louis Smith on April 19, 2013, 12:19:23 PM
Could the reason for not being in high demand, due to the high prices?
Edited my last post to:
These cars are not lacking in high demand for no good reason.
Pardon the error.
Quote from: ericdev on April 19, 2013, 12:34:34 PM
Edited my last post to:
These cars are not lacking in high demand for no good reason.
Pardon the error.
So to regroup, allow me to ask, is the reason for the high demand, due to the fantastic styling of cars of the past, which attracts many people today?
Quote from: Louis Smith on April 19, 2013, 12:42:19 PM
So to regroup, allow me to ask, is the reason for the high demand, due to the fantastic styling of cars of the past, which attracts many people today?
Whether RWD Eldorados had unique sheetmetal or not, they fact remains they were more richly appointed, had unique exterior trim, cost a hefty premium when new and are far rarer as a result. In a nutshell, the model represented the last word in personal luxury motoring, Cadillac style. (Coupe or Convertible). Hence the strong collectibility today.
However, many feel that the Eldorado lost much of its distinctiveness post 1960, but in all fairness, the same could be said for most of the offerings of the American car industry during the same period.
The last 1966 Eldorado I remember seeing for sale was this one offered by Matt Garrett. The asking price had been $85,000. I don't know the actual selling price was, but were it a DeVille Convertible, I suspect it would have sold for considerably less.
http://www.mcsmk8.com/66-ELDO/66-ELDO.HTM
I think that 75-90% of the additional demand (and hence pricing) for these 1960s Eldorados is because they are convertibles.
Of course I'm basing that on 100% Wild a$$ guessing. :P
But seriously;
Fleetwoods (60 Sp & Brougham) of the day had special exterior trim, POWER vent windows, and all the nice interior levels, plus reading lights, footrests, tray tables, etc, that even Eldorados did not have. Plus the interior room!
But they were not convertibles...
Look at our annual directory. For most of the 1950s, 60s and thru 1976, the convertibles outnumber everything else put together. :o
As I've noted elsewhere, my two favorite body styles of this era are Fleetwood Broughams and Convertibles.
Quote from: ericdev on April 19, 2013, 01:15:00 PM
Whether RWD Eldorados had unique sheetmetal or not, they fact remains they were more richly appointed, had unique exterior trim, cost a hefty premium when new and are far rarer as a result. In a nutshell, the model represented the last word in personal luxury motoring, Cadillac style. (Coupe or Convertible). Hence the strong desirability today.
However, many feel that the Eldorado lost much of its distinctiveness post 1960, but in all fairness, the same could be said for most of the offerings of the American car industry during the same period.
The last 1966 Eldorado I remember seeing for sale was this one offered by Matt Garrett. The asking price had been $85,000. I don't know the actual selling price was, but were it a DeVille Convertible, I'm sure it would have sold for considerably less.
http://www.mcsmk8.com/66-ELDO/66-ELDO.HTM
Great looking '66 Eldo. A true museum piece. I have to take exception with your statement that post 60 Eldos lost their distinctiveness. Like the '53 Eldo, and the late 50's eldos, I think the introduction of the '67 Eldo presented a whole new look of distinction for Cadillac. No it wasn't the first in that era, to have distinctive styling, to be offered by GM. It started with the 1963 Riviera, continued with the FWD 1966 Toronado, one of my all time favorite models, and culminated with the introduction of the 1967 Cadillac Eldorado. Along with having the advantage of the Cadillac name and mystique, it had styling that was both radical and magnificent. Yes, both the Riviera's and Tornado's had very distinctive, and beautiful styling, but I guess I am prejudiced toward the Eldorados. Its my guess that the success of the Rivs, Toronado and Eldo's let to the introduction of the Gran Prix and Monte Carlo's
Although I don't necessarily agree, but many felt that way about the post 60 RWD Eldorado. Then again, base price dropped around $1,000 (from 1960 to 1961) so it's all relative I suppose...
Quote from: ericdev on April 19, 2013, 02:09:05 PM
Although I don't necessarily agree, but many felt that way about the post 60 RWD Eldorado. Then again, base price dropped around $1,000 (from 1960 to 1961) so it's all relative I suppose...
Just spit balling here. I am thinking possibly that starting with the 1959 models, the Eldorado's might have lost some of their panache, since they really weren't that much different from the basic convertibles. Sure they had more luxurious appointments and added chrome, but possibly it wasn't impressive enough for people to put out the extra money.
The entire Fleetwood series was intentionally a lower production which built cachet and exclusivity that was shared by the DeVille and Calais/62 series. The Fleetwood "family" with the 60 Special and later Brougham; Series 75 sedans and limousines and the Eldorado were the "Cadillacs of Cadillacs" and not everyone could acquire them. So, the market wasn't flooded with them. These were the "halo" cars that instilled desire--"My next Cadillac is going to be a Fleetwood." A lot of people who bought DeVille convertibles wanted an Eldorado but simply couldn't afford them. As used cars, they still held that special something--and still do. Unfortunately, this didn't hold true for the 75 series since it wasn't a practical used car to begin with.
There were 24,000 Sixty Specials built in 1957. There were 12,000 for 1958. Today, I bet there are twice as many '58 60 Specials out there than '57's. Rarity? All that chrome? Harley's last hurrah at the helm? All factors to consider. Yet look at the survival rate of Eldorados and Eldorado Broughams. Obviously, these cars will always be desired. Why buy a loaf of bread when you can have the grocery store?
Quote from: Walter Youshock on April 19, 2013, 03:04:48 PM
The entire Fleetwood series was intentionally a lower production which built cachet and exclusivity that was shared by the DeVille and Calais/62 series. The Fleetwood "family" with the 60 Special and later Brougham; Series 75 sedans and limousines and the Eldorado were the "Cadillacs of Cadillacs" and not everyone could acquire them. So, the market wasn't flooded with them. These were the "halo" cars that instilled desire--"My next Cadillac is going to be a Fleetwood." A lot of people who bought DeVille convertibles wanted an Eldorado but simply couldn't afford them. As used cars, they still held that special something--and still do. Unfortunately, this didn't hold true for the 75 series since it wasn't a practical used car to begin with.
There were 24,000 Sixty Specials built in 1957. There were 12,000 for 1958. Today, I bet there are twice as many '58 60 Specials out there than '57's. Rarity? All that chrome? Harley's last hurrah at the helm? All factors to consider. Yet look at the survival rate of Eldorados and Eldorado Broughams. Obviously, these cars will always be desired. Why buy a loaf of bread when you can have the grocery store?
Good post. You state, that market wasn't "flooded" with Fleetwoods. Do you mean because there wasn't that much of demand for them or are you implying that Cadillac intentionally limited their production?
Both. Keeping the price high and the production low meant that fewer people would be in the position to own one. Once in that category, Fleetwood buyers tended to remain Fleetwood buyers. You couldn't have people think you had hit a rough patch by trading in your Eldorado for a DeVille!
The DeVille line was really where dealers wanted to sell. A coupe, sedan and convertible all in the line with a huge color palate, interior choices and options. A fully loaded up DeVille convertible could actually run more than a stock Eldorado.
Quote from: Walter Youshock on April 19, 2013, 03:57:19 PM...A fully loaded up DeVille convertible could actually run more than a stock Eldorado.
Difficult to do. I'll explain when i get out of this next briefing I'm being dragged into...
in 1966, the lasyt yead both a deVille convertible and Eldorado convertible were offered, they cost as follows:
DeVille Convertible: $5,555
Eldorado Convertible: $6,631
Difference $1,076
Now if one was to have completely optioned out (I have excluded things like brougham package, power windows for a 4 door, etc) a DVC the cost of all available options would be $1,637, however, some of those options would have very little popularity on a convertible, so i selected a "likely" set of options as follows:
Air conditioner $495 except Fleetwood 75
Bucket seats with console $188 F J B (leather upholstery reqd)
Cruise control $97 all
Door guards $4 two-door models
Soft Ray tinted glass $52 all
License plate frame $6 all
Left-hand four-way power bucket seat $54 F J B
Power door locks $46 G F J E
AM/FM radio $191 all
Adjustable steering wheel $91 except Fleetwood 75
Remote control trunk lock $53 except Fleetwood 75
Twilight Sentinel $57 except E R S
It totals $1,334, still more than the difference, but adding just five likey , practcally indespensable options easily makes the eldorado more expensive than a full out optioned DVC as follows:
Air conditioner $495 except Fleetwood 75
Soft Ray tinted glass $52 all
Left-hand four-way power bucket seat $54 F J B
AM/FM radio $191 all
Adjustable steering wheel $91 except Fleetwood 75
These total $883
So even a full out DVC would cost $7,192
A likely optioned DVC would cost $6,889
While a minimally optioned Eldo would cost $7,514
Even a bare bones Eldo with only climate control, tinted glass and the radio would cost some $7,369, still more than a full up DeVille Convertible.
I cannot imagine an Eldorado leaving Clark Street without at least those 3 options.
That said, I'd rather have my 1968 DVC than a full out optioned 1966 Eldorado. 8) 8) 8)
Since the Eldo came standard with a number of options that would be extra cost on other models, technically these items should be added to the base DeVille conv to make a fair price comparison between the two.
At any rate, a DVC with every box checked would ring up at more than a Brougham or Eldo with none.
I have seen a few 65/66 ELCs without air but they're probably in the minority.
Quote from: ericdev on April 20, 2013, 09:39:22 AMSince the Eldo came standard with a number of options that would be extra cost on other models, technically these items should be added to the base DeVille conv to make a fair price comparison between the two.
At any rate, a DVC with every box checked would ring up at more than a Brougham or Eldo with none.
I have seen a few 65/66 ELCs without air but they're probably in the minority.
Eric, I showed how a fully optioned out Deville would cost more than a zero option Eldorado, no disagreement there at all.
However, on the 1966 Eldorado; Radio wasn't standard, Climate Control wasn't standard, Tllt & Telescope wasn't standard, tinted glass wasn't standard. I just can't imagine an Eldorado leaving the factory without these options. You say you have seen a couple, so evidently there were some, but that has to be quite rare - in an undesirable sort of fashion...
Climate Control by 1966 was in
93% of all Cadillacs leaving the factory. The
vast majority of that 7% without it was probably Calais models, which did not have power windows as standard equipment either. I can see a convertible without it, but only just barely. Ditto for the radio.
We all need to remember that a
large number of items we take for granted now, and even in older Cadillacs were
not standard equipment, but were, in fact, optional.
About the only two things I can see from the 66 brochure that Eldorados had that DeVilles did not, was Auto level control and whitewall tires. ALC was approx $100, and WWs were 56 in 1970 (somehow missing from the 1966 price list).