This of course is the car advertised by Alldoug. (Thanks Doug!!!)
Went to pick it up today with a friend of mine. Bought it from the original owners son. Car has been sitting in their garage for 30+ years and hasn't ran in 20+ years. Since I feel I may be asked I will mention that I'm keeping the car, it is not for sale.
Overall it's a solid car. No real rust issues that I can see. Older repaint that's pretty horrible and the body is a bit dinged up. Trim was removed from the sides (probably due to park by feel damage) Biggest surprise is the interior appears to be original and in rather decent shape.
Since it's basically a complete car minus a few damaged trim items, I'm thinking I will try and get it up and running/driving in it's present condition and leave it that way until my Brougham is finished. That will be several years from now but I think having 2 cars completely apart at once would be too stressful.
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Jim you should have that sorted out by The Boston GN. Hehe. Hope ya can drive her there.
Mike
What a beauty.
Exciting to see a car in such great shape - particularly a convertible.
I have never been so lucky.
Just for fun, would you post a couple of shots of the engine bay.
Good luck on the hours of fun that await you in your restoration.
Steve B.
59, I've not been that lucky either. I got lucky 3X's, then I had 3 kids. Hehe. My 52 was luck, but with a high cost. I'm feeling about ready to get lucky again.
Mike
That was a great price. From what I can see, it should leave you a decent amount of room to be "in the car right" when finished assuming it doesn't leave you chasing too many parts and doesn't need an engine rebuild. There are very few better vintage car investments than a 1959 Cadillac Convertible.
Good luck with the project.
Thanks guys.
Last night I did some cleaning on the car and connected a battery. It was nice that so much worked on the car. Radio,power windows, headlights, horn,wipers, interior and trunk lights all work. Seat tilts front/rear but seems like just the passenger side wants to move forward and back.
Gave the body and undercarriage a closer look and it is super solid, no rust problems at all which is really surprising considering it spent it's life in Indiana.
I can hear the top motor 'clunk' but not spin so I think the pump is locked up.
I've been filling the cylinders with oil but so far no luck in freeing the engine.
One does not get a hold of many cars like that, in a life time! Especially for what you payed. Awesome someone who knows what to do with it owns it now. Im thinking you probably wont be using the fins for a shelf anytime soon.
Thanks. No fins as a shelf though their is a bit of weight overhead.....
I now have the cylinders filled with Marvel Mystery oil and spark plugs in. Pulled the valve covers (a bit of sludge but not too bad considering the age) and oiled everything in the valvetrain and added 5qts of oil to the sump as well. I'll let it sit a while and try breaking it free again.
Brought the car home. Not too many cars are going to make an Eldorado Brougham look small. Should be interesting to work on, LOL.
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Jim,
Congrats on your purchase.
Question, how are you trying to free the motor?
Bob
Thanks Bob.
Initially I had just sprayed penetrating oil in the cylinders and had a breaker bar on the crank bolt. Seemed like the breaker bar was flexing and the crank bolt was tightening so I switched to a big chain wrench around the dampener with a 5ft long bar on it as an extension.
It is stuck hard.
If you can get the car up in the air and remove the inspection cover, try to rotate the engine with a flywheel turner.
It is a tool that engages the teeth on the flexplate in two places and gives you leverage. You can try to turn the crank using the bolt in the center of the front lower pulled that threads into the crank, but you can only try clockwise, as the bolt will loosen up the other way.
I would use trans fluid, or PB Blaster, or Liquid Wrench in the cylinders through the spark plug holes and let it sit for at least 2 weeks, each day trying to move it back and forth just a little. You want the penetrating agent to leak down and get the rings wet.
If you get it turning over by hand, just keep moving it by hand. The temptation to crank it over with the starter should be avoided because you could break something, fry something, or score the bores.
If you get it started, you may hear a knock at first. I revived one that sat for 30 years, but was not stuck. When it started, it knocked until the wrist pins started moving and oil started flowing around.
Keep us updated and best of luck with this fantastic find.
Brian
Thanks Brian.
Considering how hard it's locked up, if I get it free I'll be amazed if it isn't knocking and billowing oil once it's running, but why not try.
The car is certainly worthy of a fresh motor. Maybe it would be better, when you can get to it, to pull the engine and trans and freshen things up.
I will tell you that back a few years when I revived a 60 Biarritz after a 30 year nap, EVERYTHING on the car worked. Trips, air ride, power trunk, radio, antenna, everything. It was amazing. Car ran great too.
Brian
Have you tried turning the crankshaft the other way? It could be "Frozen" for a reason, like something broken, and therefore hindering normal rotation.
Bruce. >:D
Jim, some of us aren't much help mechanically, but we love this chit. Every car lovers dream. Getting an old classic to run again. Keep us posted Jim. We wanna drool over the old girl as well.
Mike
Moderators, if not too much trouble could I get this thread moved to restoration blogs? It's not quite heading towards a full on resto just yet but still probably a more appropriate place for updates.
I removed the engine today and did a major de-greasing and powerwash on the engine compartment.
Pulled the oil pan and it looks pretty decent, just surface rust on the bores which is likely why it's so reluctant to turn.
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Jim, how many miles did she have on her?
Mike
Mike, the odometer shows 89k. Whether or not it's rolled over or the engine has ever been gone through I'm not sure. Going to take the heads of in a few minutes and see what's going on in there.
Jim, how did you separate the transmission with the engine locked?
I might have to separate mine with the engine frozen.
Thanks,
Denny Ferreira.
Denny. 4 nuts need to be removed from the flywheel to what looks like the torque converter (but from what I'm reading it's not called that on this trans, not sure).
I could access 2.
I was able to force the engine to rotate to get the third.
4th was a problem. The part that appears to be the torque converter is retained by an internal clip so it won't just slide out of the trans like a newer one.
I ended up un-bolting the bellhousing and prying back the trans from the engine (flexing the flexplate) until I could fish a 1/4 drive ratchet and short 1/2in socket up from underneath, leaving just enough room to work the handle from above (handle was between the gap of the bellhousing and block) I was able to remove the final nut and slide the trans off.
Quote from: 76eldo on May 02, 2013, 01:05:47 AM
The car is certainly worthy of a fresh motor.
And this is the route I'm taking.
I removed the heads and there was a fair amount of rust and dirt. Once I cleaned it all out and oiled the cylinders again it turns freely. Some corrosion in the bores so it's getting a complete rebuild, new pistons/etc.
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Thanks Jim,
My concern was the flex plate, but if you dit your this way ,I can try on mine if I can't unlock the engine.
Engine is torn down completely and machine work has begun. Builder found a valve guide that will allow the use of late model LS1 valves (and we'll use LS1 springs/retainers as well).
I removed the rusty exhaust today and took a few pics of the undercarriage. Dirty and some surface rust but overall very nice.
The top pump was locked up so I took it apart. Cleaned all the gel'd fluid out of the gerotor and now it spins freely but I've yet to try it. One of the hydraulic rams has some pitting on the chrome so I don't have much hope for it.
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After re-assembling the pump and re-installing surprisingly it works great. No signs of leakage or problems yet.
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This car is looking like a bigger bargain than ever.
Thanks, I think it was good. She's a keeper! My main concern is always rust. I don't like cars that need to be cut up and metal worked, just never seem the same afterwords.
I started cleaning the interior. Normal leather cleaner did almost nothing. I tried a small spot with Castrol super clean and a toothbrush and it's an amazing difference. (and is not pulling off any dye, at least as far as I can tell on a white towel).
Also I was happy to see the electric antenna still works perfect. At first I didn't think it worked because it didn't go up when the radio was turned on but then learned you must operate it with the right button.
Seats with just leather cleaner-
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Other side with super clean-
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Left side with super clean, right side with just leather cleaner. Center speaker grille and white surround also with super clean-
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Cleaned up the dash and instrument panel a bit. A bit of wear and the horn ring is broken but good enough to drive for now.
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Jim, are you also going to restore the transmission? I just got a 59 Sedan a few months ago, this car was barely driven since the late 70s and the transmission is slipping in it. I drained the fluid and it was almost like honey mixed with mud. Took the pan off, cleaned it and for now just going to try to refill it and see if it runs. If it doesn't than I'm going to rebuild it this year, otherwise I'll postpone it till next year sometimes.
So let me know if you're planning to rebuild the transmission, we could exchange ideas.
By the way anyone knows what's the choice for transmission fluid for the 59s?
The fluid is Dexron 3.
Bruce. >:D
I won't attempt the trans myself, going to have a local guy go through it. Clean red dexron drained out of it but I figured may as well check it while everything is apart.
I was just looking at your production number, you're not much off from mine: 59K118886
The right rear window didn't work. Turns out the frame was broken and laying at the bottom of the 1/4 panel. Somewhere online I saw that someone made a support brace for this so I stole the idea and made one myself out of stainless plate. With this temporary repair I now have all power windows operational.
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Even though the car is pretty banged up I decided to high speed polish the paint. Quite a difference. Still need to finish the decklid and the hood. I decided to put some cheap tires on it just to get it on the road for now but will change to www's in the future.
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She is looking a million Dollars now.
Bruce. >:D
Very nice Jim. Did she come with a boot?
Mike
Thanks guys.
It came with a vinyl boot (no hard boot) but it seems to have shrunk quite a bit over the years as I can't get it snapped on.
Jim, The boot I bought for my car seemed a to have shrunk also so we wiped her down, cleaned it with I think Zydol leather cleaner, then applied Zydol conditioner. Then we hand stretched a little, and snapped into place to dry. She is still a little tight, but a lot easier to put on. May work for yours.
Mike
Thanks Mike I will give it a try!
Plus, leave it out in the hot sun for a while, and while it is supple, try fitting it.
Mother Nature does come in handy.
Bruce. >:D
I'm surprised there are no side moldings on it. I thought all the Series 62s had the chrome side moldings.
Quote from: Blade on July 08, 2013, 10:46:11 AM
I'm surprised there are no side moldings on it. I thought all the Series 62s had the chrome side moldings.
It has very old paint but not original. Someone filled the trim holes with body filler (though I can still see all of the locations when I look closely).
I have the 1/4 panel trim pieces but will need to find the door and fender trim as it is missing.
You must be the luckiest man alive to own that chunk of American Automobile!
I wonder about the guy who sold it
This car as is is worth at least 75000$
You really won the lottery here
I am jealous I am restoring a rustbucket 59 conv and
it will never never be like this car
Wow
Thanks for the kind words. It was a great price but I don't think it's worth anything close to 75k.
The rear bumper was dented in a way that stopped the gas door from opening so I picked up a cheap ($65) but beat up bumper center on ebay to swap out.
Not really the easiest thing to do and I'm not really happy with the alignment thus far. Not a big deal I suppose considering the condition of the rest of the car and at least I can open the gas door now.
When I removed the bumper there was a fair amount of surface rust back there so I wire brushed/scuffed/primed and painted it before re-installing the bumper. (with hopes that it will slow down the rust to some degree until I restore the car).
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Quote from: INTMD8 on August 10, 2013, 07:25:42 PM
Thanks for the kind words. It was a great price but I don't think it's worth anything close to 75k.
Jim is right, in this condition it does not worth that much but when it is done it could easily worth that.
Congrats Jim again!
What if I offer you 75k ?
Quote from: imf222 on August 13, 2013, 07:13:55 PM
What if I offer you 75k ?
Ron, not sure why you would want to do that?
For example, this car sold for 41k and would probably be nicer than mine cleaned up-
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cadillac-Other-Series-62-1959-Cadillac-Convertible-Series-62-/190878450549?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2c713e0375&vxp=mtr#ht_659wt_1165
This car looks really nice and the buy it now is 85k. Could probably be bought for less-
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cadillac-Other-2DR-1959-Cadillac-Series-62-Convertible-/330980572192?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item4d0ffabc20&vxp=mtr#ht_950wt_1165
what a find. this will be a fantastic car to restore, and it will be a great fun to drive the car "as is"
i.m.o it is also better to drive the car and get to know it better before you tear it to pieces
congrats on the car. it is amazing, the iconic caddy :)
First car does not exist Second time on Ebay
And it needs everything if it is for real
Contacted seller without result
Second car is a bondo bucket with welded on
flat sheet metal on the floors and a wrong
interior Looks good but i would let it out in the rain
I can see the bubbles growing under the
paint.
What you have is a dream come true and
i would definitaly rather have your car than
the resell black car where you never know whats
under that paint .....
Still feel a bit sorry for the seller......
Ron, not necessary to feel sorry. It was a mutually agreeable transaction. Seller got the price they wanted and buyer bought car he wanted. Sounds good to me.
Mike
Well, I just payed the sellers asking price and he seemed to be pleased.
I would be tempted to sell it for 75k just because I feel like I could find another one for less.
Considering however this car is pretty much rust free and I'm basically the 2nd owner I suppose that would be a hard scenario to duplicate. Just those two things pretty much make this one a keeper.
A keeper. Even at 75, like ya said hard to duplicate. The fun is only beginning.
Yes, it will be more fun once running ;D
I've been cleaning and painting all of the engine covers, exhaust manifolds/etc. No pics of that.
Bought a trunk trim piece that was more presentable and installed that along with cleaning up the taillights.
Went after the engine compartment once more with degreaser and a tooth brush and also cleaned up the chrome a bit.
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Wow! That paint turned out really nice!
yes. its coming amazingly well out
Thanks guys. It's somewhat presentable but looks better in pictures than in person. I think the engine compartment is the nicest part of the car, lol.
is the engine going in next?
I'll probably do the master/booster/brakes first. All of the machine work/balancing is completed on the engine, just waiting on my guy to assemble it. Actually I think I'll offer to assemble it to speed things along.
driving this thing surely is something to look forward to.
Shes looking like a Great Car. It will be Amazing when finished. Will you keep it stock color ?
Thanks.
It will be many years before this car is restored. Not sure if I will keep these colors, they are not my favorite choice.
Jim, I am also changing mine, especially the exterior.
Jim
This is a really great 59 in original condition. The 59 Cad convert is one model of a car that there many for sale and their condition varies drastically on these cars. This is worth a lot as it sits mainly because it is an original car in good solid condition.
Just curious, but what was the owners asking price?
Steve
Tibor, what are you considering? I think this is my favorite, though I'm not sure if its an Eldorado only color (or even what color it is)-
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Quote from: Vsixteen on September 13, 2013, 05:35:26 PM
Jim
This is a really great 59 in original condition. The 59 Cad convert is one model of a car that there many for sale and their condition varies drastically on these cars. This is worth a lot as it sits mainly because it is an original car in good solid condition.
Just curious, but what was the owners asking price?
Steve
Thanks Steve, appreciate the kind words. Asking/purchase price was 16.5k.
That silverish Biarritz looks amazing. Jim, what color(s) are you considering for your 59?
That Biarritz looks like it's Argent. If you did change the car to Argent would you leave the interior the red?
Steve, that's my new Fav color for a 59. Very classy.
Mike
Quote from: 52Cadillac on September 14, 2013, 06:04:45 AM
Steve, that's my new Fav color for a 59. Very classy.
Mike
I agree. The Silver with red interior is very classy!
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David, that is nice, but a different color. The other one is much more elegant in my mind.
Mike
Yes the one I posted is a bit darker. I can't find out anything about the car other than it was photographed at the 53rd San Francisco International auto show.
Maybe a special order color? Very nice.
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The color on this coupe is just called silver according to the color chart.
David's Eldo picture is Argent Silver. I recognize it because I have used it before, but by the way in each case with black leather, my personal preference.
And you will notice on the color chart that Argent is a standard Eldo color, while the Silver Poly is a standard color available for other body types.
That doesn't mean that either could be a special ordered.
However, neither Argent or Silver was two stage - lacked a clear coat.
My guess is that the show car is a special color with many many many coats of clear to get that depth.
Have fun,
Steve B.
Quote from: INTMD8 on September 13, 2013, 05:48:45 PM
Tibor, what are you considering? I think this is my favorite, though I'm not sure if its an Eldorado only color (or even what color it is)-
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Jim:
That actually was one of my options when I found the picture of a 1960 convertible by Street Rodder (see picture below). This combination is very impressibe but my interior is black and white (mostly) so this would have added a lot more cost and work to the project. After more consideration - and adding other possibilities to my list - my top choice became a brandy wine (dark) red with pearl white roof and the stock interior. Two things I do need to change inside 1) the original carpet was deep blue and I already changed it to black, and 2) the headliner that was light blue, the best option looks like a shade of light gray.
You're a bit luckier here because your interior goes well with the silver color, I am not sure if that was one of the original colors but I would do it anyway. It's defenitely an eye catcher on a convertible!
Still the stunning Argent with clear coats wins my vote. I feel like I've been hit by a stun gun when I see that beauty.
Hey Jim set up a vote to see what colors would win on your car. Might be fun, like you've nothing else to do. Haha.
Mike
Mike, too easy on this board, most would vote original :)
The engine is finally coming together. Short block is assembled and heads are being assembled. New guides to run 5/16 stem LS1 valves, 3 angle valve job and cam reground by comp. Slightly more duration/lift.
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I towed the car down to the shop I work at a few months ago. (It's just been occupying a spot on a lift) And I finally have most of an engine.
Started painting and assembling. Just a standard rebuild. Pistons/rings/bearings. .030 over and block deck was surfaced.
Cylinder heads as mentioned are using LS1 valves, 3 angle valve job with some slight bowl work, lightweight beehive valvesprings/retainers and reground stock cam. New specs are 212/212 @.050 .420 lift. Very mild.
New motor mounts, fuel pump pushrod and lifters.
I'll have to check on my home computer for more pics. May have to get a repair manual as I can't recall how the coolant hose routing goes under the intake or the oil lines to the filter housing. Which by the way, also not sure the specifics of the oiling system on this engine but I imagine only a small portion of the oil is filtered considering the tiny lines in and out of the filter housing.
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Its looking good! Keep us posted. This is one awesome car.
-Gavin
Jim, that engine looks good - and the car on the lift too!
My engine is untouched and original at this point so I can check stuff for you just let me know. I'll look at the heater hoses and the oil line tonight.
I just found this thread... Jim, you are very talented. What an awesome icon of post-war American car history, unmatched by others. It's amazing how the cars gained and lost so much style in only a few years, with the '59 being the zenith.
Jim: here is the hookup for the heater. Outlet from the pump (driver side) goes to the bottom on the heater, inlet (passenger side) connects to the top, the hoses cross right behind the intake as they come out then run over the valve cover.
Thanks Frank but I didn't do anything to this car but clean it up a bit. Anyone could do it :)
Tibor, thanks for the diagram and pics. Simple!
I finally received the transmission back from the rebuilder and was able to drop the engine and trans in tonight. Finally some progress!
Shouldn't be too long before the old girl is up and running again.
I had originally contemplated setting the original drivetrain aside and installing a late mode fuel injected Escalade engine. Let me tell you rebuilding the original motor and trans was way (way!) more expensive and time consuming than I expected so I'm not sure I made the right decision.
Anyway, if there are no major problems it looks like I'm easily on track for some top down cruising come spring :)
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Jim,
Although LS series engines are great, I am really happy to see you stick with the 390. It looks like you are making very nice progress.
Thanks Aaron!
It's taken much more time than I expected but finally, she runs! I actually took it down the road to seat the rings. Night time, no hood, top down and 36 degrees. :)
Engine and trans seem nice and the car is nice and smooth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Pk4ncXtFwo
A few issues I need to work out.
-turn signals stopped working (nothing at all and green indicators don't even illuminate).
-no dash lights
-brakes need to be bled again
Otherwise it seems good!