Hi!
I`m from Europe and I help my friend to restore his 1957 Eldorado he bought from US some 5 years ago. It looked fine on the pictures when he bought it, but turned out to be real disaster. Now he has a goal to completely restore it for his 50-th birthday which is only in 4 years.....
I did the metalwork of the body and most probably will help him with other parts cause he has very little time to work on it himself.
I started this topic, as we are in the point where the body will go to painter`s shop and we start with mechanical repairs etc, and we most defenately need your advice and suggestions in it.
Here`s the link to metalwork topic, posted in our local forum.
Start from the bottom, follow the numbers..... its a strange language for you guys, but as we all know- " one picture says more than thousand words".... If anything is particularly interesting, I can translate it or ad some comments.
http://www.vanatehnika.ee/foorum/viewforum.php?f=84
To start with several questions: whats the correct coating for hood hinges of that car? Zinc-plated, painted black/grey/ body color?
The body color by data-plate is 98, copper-bronze.
Vallo
Very well done. I wish you were close to me...
David
Vallo,
Beautiful job. The hood hinge bodies were "silver-gray" cadmium plated.
HTH,
Ralph
That is just AMAZING! Wow!
I can't imagine the amount of time that went into making all of those pieces. Very, very good!
If you readers want you can go to Google click on “more†and then “translate†on the drop down menu. Copy and paste each paragraph into the left box. It does a fair job of translating Estonian. It misses a word or two now and then.
I also agree that that is some great metal work.
Quote from: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on October 16, 2013, 10:08:53 PM
Vallo,
Beautiful job. The hood hinge bodies were "silver-gray" cadmium plated.
HTH,
Ralph
Thanks, also other members for good comments.
I will have many questions about originality of the eldorado cause there has been several smaller accidents with that car and many parts are badly repaired, overpainted several times or missing.
The car has been painted atleast 2 times, red and pink, metal repairs were done with lots of filler and every part of the body needed serious action. It was real hassle to get all panels fit nicely.
By now the running chassis is also completely restored. It was also really worn-out, all bushings, bearings, suspension and steering parts were total crap. Everything was dissassembled, cleaned, painted, replaced and repaired. New everything that was available ( most of it from Kanter auto)
I will ad pictures in some weeks when I have them sorted out and uploaded.
Today I worked on trunk lid and its power motor......some final adjustments before paintwork.
Thanks again, I know I will use your help many-many times
Translated page http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=et&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fvanatehnika.ee%2Ffoorum%2Fviewforum.php%3Ff%3D84
What is the cost of completely restoring a 57 Biarritz in Estonia?
Amazing work !! Please keep us posted and updated ! Barry
Hi!
Sorry for that pause, I`ll try to continue now.
As the body was almost done, it was stored to wait for assembled frame and suspension.
The whole suspension and axles were completley worn-out.
Everything looked like this when disassembled.
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After sandblasting and paint all parts were assembled with new seals, bushings, brake cylinders,tie rods, bearings, brake drums..... everything that was available
Ofcourse, all those new parts came in raw, so they had to be primed and painted. Lots of hours into those small details. Otherwise it will be rusty after first run in rain....
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New leaf-springs from Kanter Auto (as all other stuff)
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Some leafs on old springs were broken and there were different number of leafs on each sides...
And finally its done!
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It took whole winter as a side project, cause always there was some missing parts, bushings that were ordered from US, bolts and nuts that needed zink-coat and so on and so on....
We really didnt want all that to be covered with bondo-dust , primer and paint that is "flying around" in paint shop so I wrapped the whole frame into fabric. It is used in gardening and costs only cents, 2 hours later:
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Also protects the frame when lifting the body on frame, transport, etc.
Later that day, the body was lifted on the frame, using my good old tractor.
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It took a lot of my nerves to get all panels aligned and gapped nicely, They were put on and off several times, corrected when needed, hammer it here, grind it there, weld on the other side... check front bumper, chrome pieces, front bumber again.....you know.
But some weeks later later finally completed body was taken out of the shop
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And as it arrived some years ago in the dark, it also left in the dark. Straight to the paint-shop.
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Very nice! Excellent work
I finally found some time to tear apart the engine and other smaller parts....
The number on the frame is 5762 003870 but on the engine 5762 013412 (engine unit number 76X14131)....so it seems that its not "matching numbers" car and engine has been changed.
But it`s still the "early" type engine with shorter pushrods.?
Some pushrods are bent and one is different from others, but overall the engine looks like in pretty ok condition. Some honing and valve-job will still be done, and engine will be rebuilt with new kit (gaskets, bearings, lifters, pushrods, etc)
I just ordered Authenticity Manual for 57-58, looking forward for it.
Today I sandblasted the fuel tank filler tube and discovered that It has some strange coating on it. Looks like zink but is very soft and too thick for ordinary zink-coating. Shines real nice after blasting and wire-wheeling it What coating is it?
I haven`t seen the fuel tank yet, maybe its covered with same stuff.
Then I found some odd looking blue on some parts, like this breather tube. Thats not Cadillac-blue, more like Ford-blue or something...
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Also disassembled water pump, it was pretty ulgy and made some weird noises while turning. IMO.
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Completely torn apart
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We still have problem, finding correct nowadays color code for factory 98.
Is there any paint-pros here, who could help us a little bit, we would really appreciate it!
The plating on the Fuel Filler pipe is Solder, as in a Tin Coating.
All containers for petrol are "Tinned" where the surface can come into contact with Petrol, as this is the way the manufacturers stop rusting.
If you remove the coating with heat, and get the surface back to bare steel, it will eventually rust out.
Diesel Tanks can be plain steel, as the splashing on the Diesel coats the surface, whereas when petrol dries from a surface, and condensation occurs, rust starts.
If you care to look inside your Petrol Tank, you will see this Solder coating, and one of the reasons why a petrol tank from a vehicle that has been caught in a fire, is that the heat destroys the coating.
Bruce. >:D
Hi Vallo,
i am currently doing the same restoration, also here in Europe. You´ve done the best job i´ve ever seen before! Amazing!
I hope my 57 eldo isn´t that bad rusted as yours was!
Lucky
Thanks Bruce, for the information about filler tube, and Ludwig, for kind words!
Hopefully we can also see your Eldo build in here pretty soon, it would be real interesting cause there arent too many full-project stories out here.
Vallo
As about water pump rebuild, theres a kit for sale that includes ordinary stuff + impeller.
http://www.cadillacpartsltd.com/19cawapureki3.html
Is this new sheet-metal impeller any way better than original cast-iron one?
If no, then I may buy the rebuild kit without impeller, will be bit cheaper also.
valts,looks like you're doing a good job and going about it right. I know what you're going thru and how much patience it takes to do it this way! I did a 57 corvette like the way you're doing it. every nut and bolt. the things you do when you're young! with raising a family and buying a home, it did'nt get done for 9yrs!! p.s. that impeller don't look that bad,clean on wire wheel. 57 water pumps are one year only!. the bottom outlet is on the pass. side! I think the impellers are the same. check your engine number to tell early or late motor. (pushrods)....r king.
We have some really slow progress but its still moving .....
I got the 57-58 Authenticity Manual, witch is really a great sorce for information about paints, coatings and details. Really wort every penny.
The body is in the paint shop, almost smooth, real painting soon.
Engine is in mechanic shop, the block will be honed and crank needs some work, otherwise just a usual rebuild with new gaskets and stuff.
And I decided to work on power steering pump. Just a quick rebuild and repaint. As I took it apart today, I noticed that theres something wrong with pump bracket. Something is missing here, on the right upper corner, where the screwdriver points:
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I could not find and good picture of the correct bracket, maybe you guys have some and help me out?
I'll check our Eldos tomorrow and let you know.
Valts - keep up the good work & keep the photos coming . Do these pictures help you ? Paul Tesone CLC #6876
Thanks Paul, but for me, it looks totally different (when talking about power steering pump bracket).
Are you sure you have the correct one?
I'd say that Paul has the correct bracket,I've just checked the pump on my 57 Seville and the bracket is identical to Pauls.
Both of our Eldos also have the bracket that's in Paul's photo.
Here is a link where you can get the parts you need. Friendly seller, and shipping is cheap if you can wait a few weeks for the parts.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-Cadillac-Power-Steering-Pump-OEM-Original-Used-Saginaw-/181288954943?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3ACadillac%7CYear%3A1957&vxp=mtr&hash=item2a35a9ec3f
I am also restoring a 57 Biarritz, same color as Yours, copper. Difficult to get this Paint (here in Norway), so I had it scanned from my car. I can post the recipe if you need it.
I am impressed With Your work on the car :)
Frank
Thank you all guys, it seems I have the wrong bracket......
If anyone has the correct one, I`m opened to offers.
Frank, I would be really interested of that paint recipe/code.
We already lost our hopes on that and choosed one pretty similar Volvo color, a bit darker tought.
We didnt have any spot on the car that could be used for scanning
Painter will start mixing the coloor maybe ever next week, so if you have something, please hurry.
Thanks again,
I will post some more pics as we have progress.
Vallo
Here is the recipe.
I will advice you to try it before you decide to use it, but I believe its pretty Close. I will use it on my car.
Frank
Funny, I've also being trying to procure Copper Metallic for my Seville here in Norway the past few weeks. According to DuPont their code for Copper 2595LH is a paint that can only be mixed in their Lucite Lacquer which is not available anywhere in Europe.
I have spoken to a PPG vendor which was optimistic that they would be able to mix the Ditzler PPG code 21417 which is listed as the corresponding code for 1957 Copper 98.
Vallo - looks like Frank provided you with a good lead . But just in case the pump assembly has already sold , here are two other contacts who seem to be parting out 57 Caddys : sslowhandtt@aol.com & Ebay # 271425238589 . Also found what might be a better picture than the two I previously sent .... Paul Tesone CLC #6876
Henning, can you please post when you get the answer about that PPG Paint.
Frank
Great thread, inspiring!
My Seville was as so many other 98 copper cars resprayed with a coat of 1958 desert bronze a long long time ago. A poor job and they didn't even bother to sand her down. Good thing was that I located several areas of factory 98 in pretty good condition. In 2012 some pros (PPG vendors) analyzed the best exterior areas and reproduced a corresponding recipe while 2k acrylic were still around here in Sweden.
I have a few litres, will check the cans and hopefully return with details in time.
//Jan
I sent the paint recipe to the painter, but I`m not sure it helps, his a Spiec-Hecker guy and I really dont know if these systems and recipes mix with each other. We`ll see.
About that bracket, then today something came into my head, I had a feeling that I have seen the correct bracket somewhere. Called the owner and he came up with a box of misc old and rusty part that were in the trunk when the car arrived from US.
and....
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Lucky us... :)
As the Eldorado does not have its original engine, (but still early type engine as original) then it seems that previous owner had collected all stuff from his garage that belonged to Eldo, but were not used after engine swap and other repairs.
We also found some fuel pumps, etc.
So this leads to the question, did Eldos had different power steering pump brackets than other 57? Or is the wrong one from another year/car?
Looks to be the right one but I'd have to compare it to mine. All the '57's used the same PS bracket.
That's the same as the one on my 57 CDV.
Joe Hunt
It has been some time....
I`m quite busy on my regular, bodywork right now but I`m trying to "steal" some days for Cadillac parts.
Water pump was on the way.
Picture takes before dissassembly, it seems like theres something wrong with heater outlets, instead of correct curved pipe that should come from the bacside of the pump and go to heater hose, theres some straight pipes and Y-joint and pieces of hose.
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Does anybody have picture of the correct pipe or maybe pipe itself to sell it?
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Hello Valts,
I have just gone through the process of cleaning and painting my 57 CDV water pump.
Hope the attached pics help.
Joe
I believe what you have is correct. The Eldorado Transmission had a cooler on it and was fed from the water pump. That Y fitting is the one that goes back down to the transmission. The 4 groove pulley tells me you have a A/C car.
David
Another photo. My shots are to large to get them in one post. This shows the pipe that lays in the valley, under the intake manifold. The other hose connects to the Y fitting.
David
Thanks Joe and David, I also figured out that Y-fitting is correct but just one pipe is replaced with rubber hose and other pipes just "look wrong". I`ll try to find some better pipes from hardware stores and modify these to look right.
Ordered water pump repair kit, as also power steering pump kit and some other stuff from US, should arrive next week.
Sorry,I dont have any pictures now, but I got many small parts blasted and primed in those days.
Does anybody have a clue where we could find correct and complete parade boot for 57 Biarritz?
There was one in ebay some weeks ago but the seller didnt answer my emails, i decided not to buy this one.
Thanks,
Vallo
Hello Valts,
Your car is simply beautiful and well documented . You certainly picked the right car to invest time and money . I wonder if you can answer a question for me . I have owned a 57 Seville and presently own a 57 Biarritz . Both cars are beautiful . I have been trying to get to the bottom of this mystery . My Seville had window slide locks on the vent windows . The 57 Biarritz convertible (99 out of 100 cars ) do NOT have slide locks on the vent windows . Can you tell me if your Biarritz has or does not have slide locks on the vent windows . No one has been able to give me a good reason for the lack of these vent window locks on all 57 Cadillac Convertibles .
Thanks,
Bill
Hi!
Thanks for the good words, altought the car is not mine, it belongs to a friend.
Thats why I dont have all the access to the parts to check these vent windows out, but I will try to find it out.
I wanted to assemble the water pump but one thing held me back.... When installing newshaft assembly, thrust washer and seal assy then the working surface between ceramic thrust washer (with step on in) and pump housing seal surface seems very small.
When I disassembled the pump there was an extra rubber seal put around the thrust washer, probably because of leaking.
Why is that ceramic thrust washer so narrow, it could easily have 2 times wider working surface...
I know that seal surface on housing must be refinised and polished, picture was taken before that..
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The repair kit came from cadillac parts ltd and is re-engineered, no slinger needed, they say.
I assembled mine as shown with the same part and no leaks so far
Thanks Jim!
I have no previous experience with older water pumps and it just seemed a bit weird- unlogical.
I will then assemble the pump as this.
I thought the same! Seemed sketchy but all is well :)
OK, real slow progress but still....
my machinist made me some "cadillac special tools" for water pump assembly. It could have been done probably without these, but as I probably have some more 57-58 caddys to restore in the future I decided to do it the right way.
Simple seal surface refinishing device:
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just a tool that holds fine sandpaper and centralises it, can be rotated with cordless drill. Worked real fine.
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Also bearing shaft installer tools were made and shaft was properly installed.
But then I stopped again...
The instructions that came with the repair kit says that bushing and thrust washer-seal assembly must be installed as a unit.
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As soon as I pushed it a little, the bronze? bushing split:
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Not really a big deal, easy to make new one but the thing that got me hooked was again in the instruction papers.
" The measurement between impeller and the seal seat surface is 0.703 in (17.86mm). To achieve this measurement use spacer if necessary."
When I compress seal unit to 17.86 mm and ad thickness of the impeller (11 mm) + 0.01 inch (0.25mm) that separates impeller vanes from backing plate surface I`m still about 2mm to short. It means that if I assemble it this way the seal unit will not be compressed as much as needed and some leaks are possible. I believe I should ad spacer+seal between the seal unit and the impeller.....Am I right?
The other thing that seems a bit odd, is that bronze bushing.....what keeps it from moving forward on the shaft, towards the bearing? Just the tension?
Maybe I`m like overthinking it but really want to be sure everything is like it should be.
I really appreciate it if someones shares his experience and knowledge about it..
Thanks.
Oh, yeah.... almost forgot... ;D
The car is almost painted, some fresh parts are coming back. I have some safe storing room to use so I will keep the hood and fenders in my place as long as everything is ready for assembly. The body will be taken to owners garage.
The painter will assemble doors and trunklid when its painted but we just dont want to take risk and assemble front panels just for cool looks..... and then remove it for engine and other mechanical work. Hood and fenders are probably the last big pieces that go on the car.
Love the paint....
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just stumbled over your thread!
Nice work. 8)
Keep us updated!
Best regards,
Nicolas
Really enjoy this thread Valts - please update!
Just saw this thread. You asked "What color are the hood hinges." My 1958 SDV appear to be goldish cadnium plated. See attached picture. They need a cleaning, but original:
Hi Valts - Regarding the hood hinges : According to the 1957-58 authenticity manual ( unless things have changed from my 2nd edition ) , the hood hinges should be silver cadmium plated with black springs . The manual makes no differentiation between 1957 & 1958 . As long as you are trying to be accurate , you might as well white cad plate the hood latches and paint the hood release springs . The main hood release spring should be black and the safety release spring should be blue . If you don't have an authenticity manual , you should get one through the club . Keep up the good work and keep the pictures coming . Paul Tesone CLC # 6876
Paul -
Were the Eldorado hinges different from my SDV? Look at my picture - mine are untouched and are gold; not silver.
Jon - I've been flipping back and forth between your picture and mine to see if I notice any difference between the hinges. Although they appear to be on opposite sides of the car , and perhaps my hinge was not attached to the hood when the picture was taken , they seem to have the same configuration . I also attached a couple of photos of my unrestored 57 Eldo . The hinges seem silver , but with all the corrosion , who knows ?? When I had my car restored, I planned on having it judged ; so I followed what the authenticity manual said - because that's what the judges go by . Paul Tesone CLC # 6876
Paul -
Your picture and mine both show the driver's side hood hinge.
I have noted several errors in the Authentication Manual and have voiced them on this Forum. I've offered to provide pictures/access of my purchased new 1958, but nobody has come forth. It seems foolish not to take advantage of this or to "restore" something incorrectly, but that's just my opinion.
Hello everyone,
my 'input' is not related to hood springs or the like...but a request for help..I'm finishing an Elysian Green 57 Biarritz and have had a very difficult time getting the correct code 9 elysian green convertible top...I've dealt with the 'company from Portland'...and they supplied me with what was purported to be the correct color..but the color came off on your hands...I'm told it's not made anymore..If anyone of you can direct me to where I might find the top..i'd appreciate it very much !
Try contacting Remlinger Restorations in Minnesota who restored Biarritz #1 a few years ago.
Remlinger Restorations
1201 Breezy Lane
Winona, Minnesota 55987
Phone: 507 454-6964
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I just did some searching on the internet . It seems that someone named Jim Remlinger from Winona ,MN owned and at least started the restoration . Not sure he was the one who completed it .The car was advertised with both Hollywood Wheels Palm Beach Auction and Antique Car Investments ( 630-542-0031 ) at different times . If you can't track down Remlinger , perhaps one of those companies can give you some leads . How about contacting Cadillac restorers like Hill Jenkins or Frank Nicodemus (? spelling ) . .......... Paul Tesone CLC #6876
Sorry for the late response . It seems that while I was searching and writing my post , 57Eldoking already posted much more specific information on Remlinger. That should get David the answer he's looking for ........... Paul Tesone CLC #6876 .
Valts,
The info Paul shared with you with the car pics and the authenticity manual info seems correct.
About a year ago or so I bought a 57 Biarritz (silver with black interior and top) which has about 25K original miles, and had been stored for about 27 years.
The hood hinges are silver colored - silver cadmium - with black springs - see pic.
The hood latch was silver but too much dirt and dust to tell what the latch springs colors were.
I put the car back in storage until I can get to it, so I can't confirm their colors.
Have fun,
Steve B.
I need to mention that although some plated parts may appear to be silver there's no way to know for sure until you take things apart and see the areas that haven't been exposed to light. I'm finding this out with my 60 right now that most of the hardware is actually yellow zinc.
Joe,
Although it is unlikely that a car with about 25K miles had its hood hinges re-plated with white cadmium, when it wouldn't cost a nickle more to re-plate the hinges if they were originally gold cadmium.
However, If you drill out the rivets and you find that the metal not exposed to the light turns out to be gold, please let us know.
Have fun,
Steve B.
I just checked my 57 Biarritz and they are silver. I do remember my old 59 Biarritz had gold hinges however. Perhaps it was a 58 59 change.
Well, my 1958 has always been garaged and the hood hinges never touched and they are definitely gold with black springs. This car was never left out even overnight. I believe it represents how they came from the factory. They are a mild gold; not a blatant gold.
I would suspect that cars exposed to the elements would lose that gold tone just as many lost the gold tone of the V's on the hood and trunk that cannot be replicated properly.
I was going to clean the hinges this Spring, but now feel they are best left alone for fear of the finish being compromised. Thoughts?
The car in question is a '57, not a '58. The hinges on my '57 are silver cad.
Quote from: Walter Youshock on March 14, 2015, 10:25:24 AM
The car in question is a '57, not a '58. The hinges on my '57 are silver cad.
I understand. It seems strange that they would change from silver to gold 1957 to 1958, but who knows.
I can not speak to a 58, but I can speak to a 57 as silver and my 59's as gold.
I don't know why the change in plating color over those years.
However I have done such research on my 59's that it is astonishing that there are called out both gold and silver plating right down to things like dog point bolts (screws).
Unfortunately, I have not, or at least yet, found a piece by piece designation of plating on various parts -- like hood latches and hinges - that I can definitively say - there's the source.
Like this discussion, it's all anecdotal.
And maybe that is why it is taking a dog's age to get the authenticity manual for the 59 & 60 model years - a very tough job.
Have fun,
Steve B.
Authenticity Manuals don't write themselves. It takes time and fine original examples whose owners are willing to document. It's a thankless task.
If you have a fine, original example then document it. Offer your observations to the team. You won't be turned away.
I have the part print for the '57 hood spring, P/N 1467722.
The coating spec is "Japan Black Enamel"
The '58 print was not available.
The rest of the hinge could be zinc plated, I don't know, but the springs would have been black.
David
Quote from: Walter Youshock on March 15, 2015, 01:44:08 PM
Authenticity Manuals don't write themselves. It takes time and fine original examples whose owners are willing to document. It's a thankless task.
If you have a fine, original example then document it. Offer your observations to the team. You won't be turned away.
I've offered before . . . any information you need on a 1958, just ask and I'll be happy to provide.
Contact bill anderson. Get signed up as an author and start submitting your information for 1958.
Quote from: Walter Youshock on March 15, 2015, 03:42:58 PM
Contact bill anderson. Get signed up as an author and start submitting your information for 1958.
How do I contact him? Tried sending a PM, but no Bill or William Anderson.
I know he is the head judge, but he does not come up in a member search.
Bill anderson
Rivsrgr8@aol.com
Chief Judge, technical questions and authenticity.
Additional contact information on page 15 of the 2015 Membership Directory.
Quote from: Walter Youshock on March 15, 2015, 04:47:30 PM
Bill anderson
Rivsrgr8@aol.com
Chief Judge, technical questions and authenticity.
Additional contact information on page 15 of the 2015 Membership Directory.
Thanks! Email sent.