Bought a 57 Seville today after having wanted one for the past 10 years. Not new to 57 Eldos tough, my dad and I spent 16 years on a total restoration of a 57 Biarritz.
The Seville came to Norway in 1987 and has spent a lot of time sitting since then. The matching #s 365 was completely machined and rebuilt about 15 years ago and driven very little since. She was originally copper with a white top and copper Versailles cloth interior. At some point she will be returned to her original colors, but the priority right now is to get her road worthy again. The car is very solid in all areas except for the passenger floorboards which are badly rotted out. I hope to be able to tackle this rust during next winter.
She's well optioned with both AC (missing compressor) and Autronic eye (missing eye), havent been able to decode the block to see if it was originally a dual quad car.
I should be picking her up sometime next week, and will be posting more pictures then.
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She'll be spending a lot of time with our Biarritz!
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Picked her up yesterday! Despite a massive exhaust leak on the right manifold and brakes on no more than 2 wheels the 25 mile drive home was magical 8)
Big parts order for all new brakes, bearings, weatherstripping has already been sent. Looking forward to start tinkering with it next weekend!
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A handshake and she's all mine!
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Greatest view in the world!
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Very nice! Looks like a great car :)
This thread makes me very happy
Hello Henning
Congratulations on your acquisition!
Is it just me or are folks starting to look younger.
How can youngsters afford such nice cars.
Have fun,
Steve B
Thank you guys! Yes both the buyer and seller of this Seville are probably much younger than average. The girl I bought it from is 21 and inherited the car when her father passed away about 6 years ago. I'm 28 and spent all of my childhood helping my dad restore our 57 Biarritz, hence my great love for these cars and Ron Hill's outstanding rear end design on the 57 Biarritz & Seville in particular :)
Below is a picture of me at the age of 7 helping pull apart the grille and bumper of our Biarritz.
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Started tinkering a little this weekend. Pulled back the carpet and removed the wiring harness covers under the door sills. Turns out the floor is a little better than expected. Still needs some fresh metal but very repairable.
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Removed the passenger window and dropped it off at a glass shop.
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Bottom of the b-pillars are getting pretty crunchy behind the vinyl.
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I'll be driving it for a summer or two before taking on the roof project, no wet weather driving though!
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Been waiting a while to be able to enjoy this view in the driveway 8)
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What a wonderful project! Please do keep us informed of your progress.
This must be a very rare sight in Norway. Is the passion of restoring old cars strong there?
Vintage Paul
Yes there's a strong interest in Classic American cars in Norway. The American Car Club of Norway www.amcar.no (http://www.amcar.no) which is our national umbrella organization for Classic American cars has over 17.000 members. That is an extremely impressive figure for a country with a population of only 5 million. I estimate there's roughly 10 57 Biarritzes and 8 or 9 57 Sevilles in Norway today.
Thought I'd do an update although there hasn't been monumental progress since the last post. The main focus this spring was to get it road worthy again after almost 10 years of sitting. Probably put about 2000 miles on it this summer without too much trouble...
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New brake linings and cylinders all around plus new inner and outer bearings up front were installed.
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This explained the uneven brakes!
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Replaced all 4 u-joints which took care of 90% of vibrations. Replacing the center support bearing this winter.
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First trip of the season, doesn't get much better than the open road and a 50s Cadillac 8)
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Can't complain about the view from the kitchen window!
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Had some fun with the Biarritz this summer too, got to parade Carl Lewis around the infield of a field and track event in Oslo. He's the first person to ride on the parade boot in the 11 years the car has been done.
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The rear axle decided to call it quits in the end of July!
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:o :o The left axle broke while cruising steadily at around 50 mph on a dead straight road. At first I thought the transmission had given in but as it coasted to a stop and the driveshaft was still turning it could only be the rear axle. I found chisel marks in the axle housing around the bearing area so probably a bearing seized at some point and did a number on the axle. With time and fatigue the final break was probably inevitable. Got a hold of a used axle and replaced seals and pumpkin gasket which was leaking.
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Decided to restore the lights to the dash and fix the speedometer as neither were working. A broken rheostat and corroded terminals on the headlight switch were repaired.
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Success!
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Did a mini fall photo shoot after installing some older white walls that were once on the Biarritz. Fresh tires will be installed next spring.
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At the very end of the season the transmission started acting up not wanting to shift into 2nd or 4th gear. Finally had a day of dry weather today so got it on the trailer and hauled it out to our ranch property where we store and do the most of the work on our cars. Things to tackle this winter will be the transmission, door panels, dash and hopefully address roof and floorboard rust issues.
What a great car! It appears no problem stops you from taking action. Best of luck on the restoration of this car. Are you near Oslo?
Thanks Rob, I try to do as much of the work myself as possible, both because labor over here is extremely expensive and the satisfaction feeling of doing the job yourself is great! I live in a suburb about 20 minutes northeast of downtown Oslo.
We love OSLO however I do understand about what things cost there. Sure glad you can do much of the work yourself. What will it cost to rebuild your transmission?
Since it's not going into second or fourth the issue is most likely leaking spaghetti seals on the front unit. I'm pretty sure it was rebuilt together with the engine in the late 90s and only a few thousand miles have been put on it since. I'll have a crack at it myself first. A total rebuild at a reputable shop would be 4-5 grand over here...
Nice restoration project.
I see copper color in the boot (trunk lid), was the car originally copper painted ?
Yes it was originally 98 - Copper, with a white Vicodec vinyl roof. Eventually it will be redone in its original colors.
Thanks for sharing! happy holidays
At the very end of the season the transmission started acting up not wanting to shift into 2nd or 4th gear. Finally had a day of dry weather today so got it on the trailer and hauled it out to our ranch property where we store and do the most of the work on our cars. Things to tackle this winter will be the transmission, door panels, dash and hopefully address roof and floorboard rust issues.???
Very strange posting from ohhteriiii perhaps its his way of asking for any updates.
So Henning any updates?
Very strange indeed :o
The Seville is currently out in the cold (un-heated barn). My sister's S10 blazer also had a busted transmission so I'm rebuilding it for her. At least I get to somewhat hone my transmission skills, should be a breeze to remove the trans from the Seville compared to this Blazer though. It's ridiculous how compact things are on modern cars!
Should have the Blazer done in a week or two so the Seville can return to its heated garage spot again. Spring and dry salt-free roads are still months away, so should have it ready well before that and this summer's driving tour to and from GE2015 in Switzerland :D
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Hi
Just found your thread! Very interesting. Congratulations! 8)
Nice to hear you are attending GE2015!
I am from Switzerland and also attend the meeting - probably have a small "duty" job too.
Write or call me if you need to know something about Switzerland.
See you in a few months! :-)
Best regards,
Nicolas
what an awesome car,
its kinda funny how many old american vintage cars are to be found around the scandinavian countries, given how facist the tax system around everything car related is, i know this living in iceland
one of my dreams is to drive my eldo to smyrilline, and cruise around norway and sweeden, done it once, just not in a nice car. would be nice to check out gatebil and some of the sweedish festivals
Curious: wondering how many of these survivors were originally shipped over when produced, and how many came over as a consequence of collector interests decades after. (I recall some foreign films, e.g. Fellini's, where new Cadillacs were featured; so can one assume there were Cadillac dealerships in Europe?)
I was in the army and served in Germany 1960 to 1962 and many officers and E-5 and above brought their cars over from The USA free shipped by the army. Quite a few of them purchased new European cars and left their old cars in Germany. I drove a 1951 Oldsmobile 98 at the time. Gas for G I's was 12 cents a gallon and we had to buy coupons, and we got to buy 100 gallons a month for over 80 horsepower (as I recall) and only 50 gallons a month for under 80 horsepower. My German friends envied me as the were paying the equivalent of 65 cents a gallon. I also owned a 1950 Mercedes 220 which is now a very rare car.
THanks for the insight Gary... I know my question was somewhat off topic, which initially dealt with the restoration of these two beautiful '57 Eldorado's. Our EUropean members certainly go through great lengths to get their cars looking showroom new...glorious restorations.
Fin bil, tillykke ;)
Very few Cadillacs were bought new in Norway during the 50s. There were import restrictions in place on passenger cars from the end of WW2 until October 1st 1960. The idea was to ensure private capital was being spent rebuilding the country instead of going overseas importing new cars. To get around it you had to secure a special exemption from the government. These were generally given to the royal family, businesses or wealthy people with the right connections. In 1957 I believe two Cadillacs were imported to Norway; one Bahama Blue Eldorado Biarritz and one black Series 75 Limousine, both exist today.
Finally got started on the transmission job yesterday.
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The new transmission jack made pulling the trans a breeze!
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Got as far as pulling the front unit coupling yesterday. No noticeable wear or burrs on the parts pulled so far. The front unit coupling cover looks ok, I can't see any cracks. Does anyone know where they usually start cracking? I will function test it with the oil pump cover before pulling it apart. So far so good...
Please excuse me, but in my opinion you should double cross brace (with wood or metal) the wooden stands that the car is raised upon.
IMHO, they are not safe since they appear to be made of perhaps 2"X6" wooden pieces.
The cross bracing should be diagonal on the outside and diagonal in the opposite direction on the inside of each stand.
However, to be belt and suspenders - affix - place a plywood or metal gusset on the entire face on both sides of each stand.
These techniques will help stabilize the car if it is moved towards the front or the back - unfortunately not from side to side.
I would place frame jacks at each corner to help with both front to back and lateral movement.
Have fun - BUT BE SAFE.
Steve B.
No worries Steve, it's a good thing that we can point out safety related issues on the forum.
The blocks are built out of 2x8 that measures an actual 2x8 inches and not the standard U.S nominal 1.5"x7.25" 2x8. Each of them are screwed together with 16 5" wood screws. I've tried rocking the car both sideways and back and forth as violently as I can and the wood blocks do not budge a millimeter. I take safety very seriously when working under these cars, this setup is safer than any 2 or 4 post lift I've ever used. The car is not going to go anywhere by any force exerted by a normal human. The blocks are rock solid and I would confidently place my 8 ton Case Bulldozer on top of them and still feel safe.
Henning,
You're a young guy as I recall, and like my sons you all think your bullet proof.
We older guys - we have come to learn that it just "aint" the case.
As I say to my own sons - BE SAFE - HAVE FUN - and DON"T TALK TO STRANGERS LOL.
You are doing gr8 work.
Steve B.
Totally agree with you Steve. On the flip side check out this '59 found in Australia ...
I would like to see how he got it up there
Tibor & Henning,
Even in my earlier restoration days - frames off, I was belt and suspenders - safety first.
After boxing in the convertible body, I built four towers outside the body line to raise up the body from the frame.
This allowed me to work under and along side the car with little restrictions.
Here in California we have earthquakes and lots of shaking as a result.
The towers I built were about 2 feet square for a stable base and it allowed me to work under the car with ease and safety.
I see the lifts that others have in their garages and I am green with envy.
In keeping with that elderly gentleman - designer who built a device to put on his 47? sombrero hubcaps, most times you do the best you can, with what you have at hand.
And like the Cad in Australia & maybe the pyramids, you jack it up, block it - jack it up, block it (repeat steps 1 & 2)- slow and steady and safe.
Have fun,
Steve B.
Yup ... safety first here also. I use the 2 or 4 ton jack stands as these are safe, easy to use and last forever (I have my 2 tons for over 25 years now!). These are factory tested and approved and easily adjustable to different heights on the fly, wherever you need them at time ... and for around $25 a pair at any auto store I think it's just not worth the time/effort tinkering around building wooden blocks.
When I jack up a car I only lower the jack to let the car sit on the stands firmly and always still leave the jack underneath it locked for extra safety ... you never know and it's better be safe then sorry.
Far as the Cad in Australia goes I wonder if he did it from afraid of flood or mice infestation or simply living out a childhood dream when he firmly believed the '59s CAN fly?
Tibor,
Once I could afford the jack stands, I too use them even today.
And like you, I always leave the floor jack in place after the car rests on the jack stands.
I'm still envious of those who have lifts in their garage.
Have fun,
Steve B.
Well...Sometimes you have to take risks. When I put the body back on the Biarritz frame, my jack stands were not high enough. I had to compensate with some wood. I'm glad I'm still here to relate it!
Sorry for the poor quality: pictures are a scan from paper images.
Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on May 14, 2015, 02:51:37 AM
Well...Sometimes you have to take risks. When I put the body back on the Biarritz frame, my jack stands were not high enough. I had to compensate with some wood. I'm glad I'm still here to relate it!
Sorry for the poor quality: pictures are a scan from paper images.
Sometimes I just wonder how we got to where we are? ::)
Do I see a convertible off the chassis with no X-frame connecting the firewall to the body? :o
Quote from: Blade on May 15, 2015, 08:29:20 PM
Do I see a convertible off the chassis with no X-frame connecting the firewall to the body?
That's right. All those tubes and strange constructions are not needed at all. Do you think that convertibles have such reinforcements when they are done at the factories?
I have to confess that the floor and body work were done while the rusted body was on the frame. With the help of some basic measures, the structures stayed as expected. The picture below is showing that the front of the body is totally independant from the rear. Where would you go with braces in that situation?
So first you guys built the body, then took it off the frame and finished it? I would be afraid the floor bends and you have to start over, so just as precaution I would still use the connecting bars. Actually my convertible will be done similarly to yours as my floor and one rocker panel are shot. Nice work you guys did so far!
That's the reason why I did the most floor work when the body was on the frame: too much rust to lift the body. Even with connecting bars you may have surprises if the floor is too weak.
Of course, my method does not means that it's the best one...
Roger,
You made an astute observation about bracing that I never thought about. Every picture of a body drop shows overhead arms carrying the body at four points under the passenger compartment. If you locate the front (cowl) and rear (back seat) locations that balance the lifting load, there would be no bending moment in the door opening. If the floor was structurally sound it would not bend when lifted at those points. I wonder whether the four outermost body mounting points are those balanced locations?. It seems reasonable as they would tend to reduce NHV due to body flex.
Ralph
Well, Ralph, I did not think that much. However, when I restored my first car, the Sedan de Ville, I noticed that, when the body is supported under the rocker panels, there was such a substantial deflection from the rear of the body that I supported the rear too. On some pictures I have in my mind, during the body drop, the body is supported at the front of the rocker panels and at the rear wheel opening.
One is sure: those bodies are very flexible!
Well we're almost halfway thru car show season and I've finally finished the transmission job on the Seville. I have been heavily involved in another Cadillac project which have taken lots of my time. I will post another thread on that project soon.
Going into this project I was pretty sure I had a problem with the front unit coupling since I was missing second and fourth gear. Upon opening the front unit coupling I discovered that the seals were flexible and probably had been replaced not too long ago. The unt coupling cover also didn't have any cracks. I did find a pretty heavily worn bronze thrust washer inside the coupling. I took the unit coupling to a shop that specializes in these transmissions and they were pretty sure this could not explain the problem.
I opened the valve body assemblies and cleaned out some crud but it wasn't bad enough to explain my problem. During this process I also discovered a broken O-ring on the rear pump intake. I think this could explain a strange hissing sound I heard at times. Pulling off the rear tail housing something dropped to the ground. Turns out the weight attached to the G1 plunger on the governor had separated and was in the bottom of the tail housing. Bingo problem discovered! What threw me off checking the governor first was that the transmission shifted into third gear. This did however require quite a bit hard acceleration in first gear to achieve. I got the trans installed today and took it for a test drive. The trans shifts better than ever and the occasional hissing sound I had is also gone. Very happy to have it working again, just in time for three big car events this weekend!
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Pulling apart the front unit coupling.
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Front oil pump cover oil ring, the old one on the right and new on the left. Some people have experienced problems with an undersized oil ring causing 4th gear to slip out when the trans gets warm.
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Valve body crud
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Worn thrust washer and broken rear pump intake o-ring.
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Main culprit, the threads had completely stripped in the weight. I had a good governor from a spare trans which I used instead.
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Transmission back in the car, my wood blocks didn't kill me either! ;D
Big thanks to Roger Zimmerman who has answered many of my questions and provided me with measurements for some of the special tools I had to make.
Well done! Thanks for the thorough update! Pictures are really appreciated.
As I recall all 57 Eldos had 2x4s.. The original copper color ( forgot the real name ) with black top and matching interior is a pretty car. Must be hard to find the deep plush carpets used then on that car. I think those fin backs on the front fenders where original gold but the rest all chrome..yours looks like a gold grill, likely wheels too? Anyway good luck with it . I had a 4 Dr 57 Seville in that color ( out and in) made for Motorama years ago..I think one of 4 made.
Henning,
You should check into the Eldorado for sale by Michell on the For Sale tab. It would look good next to your convertable.
Really enjoy following your progress from the states. Mike at USA Parts told me you were a regular customer...
Just one question, I have friends from school who now live in Oslo and they had to give up on owning a car because of the outlandish taxes. I see you have an F350 dually... the taxes on that must be the same as a small house... ;D ;D
Best,
Lynn
Quote from: Karkrazy on July 21, 2015, 02:52:50 PM
As I recall all 57 Eldos had 2x4s.. The original copper color ( forgot the real name ) with black top and matching interior is a pretty car. Must be hard to find the deep plush carpets used then on that car. I think those fin backs on the front fenders where original gold but the rest all chrome..yours looks like a gold grill, likely wheels too? Anyway good luck with it . I had a 4 Dr 57 Seville in that color ( out and in) made for Motorama years ago..I think one of 4 made.
In 1957 the 2x4s were a no cost option on the Seville and Biarritz. The gold grille was a no cost option as well, the fender spears were chrome as were the sabre wheels. Sabre wheels stopped being offered in gold after 1956.
Interesting that you once owned the copper Sedan Seville, how long ago was that? I have a dream of owning one of them some day completing our collection with Eldorado convertible, coupe and sedan.
Quote from: STS05lg on July 29, 2015, 08:41:33 PM
Henning,
You should check into the Eldorado for sale by Michell on the For Sale tab. It would look good next to your convertable.
Really enjoy following your progress from the states. Mike at USA Parts told me you were a regular customer...
Just one question, I have friends from school who now live in Oslo and they had to give up on owning a car because of the outlandish taxes. I see you have an F350 dually... the taxes on that must be the same as a small house... ;D ;D
Best,
Lynn
The black 58 Biarritz looks nice and would no doubt look good next to our 57. I however don't like the 58 Eldorados as much as the 57s, the re-design got too cluttered in my opinion. I would rather add a 57 Sedan Seville to my collection than a 58 Biarritz.
Your friend is correct that taxes are ridiculous in this country. Annual registration fees on the F350 is about $500 and we probably spend three to four times that in tolls. Diesel and gasoline is at about $7.50 a gallon so that adds up too.