Trying to get the A/C going on my '71 CDV. It is still R12. I have experience with R12 systems but have not run in to this.
I vacuumed the system down a couple weeks ago and held it on vacuum for a week. No loss of pressure. Today I went to add R12 and see if I can get it running, previous owner claims it worked last summer.
When I hooked manifold gauges back up, vacuum still present...good sign. Started engine and began adding Freon. Took the first can in fine, pressure up to about 90, both low and high side match. Hooked up second can...won't suck it in. Unhooked the can and opened the manifold valve slightly, it is blowing out the low side. High side valve is not open. 12v is present at the compressor clutch but it never engaged.
Ideas? Perhaps a bad compressor clutch that won't let it engage?
Thanks
You are reading that 12v at the clutch connector? Or is one of your meter leads on a ground somewhere else? I think the ground for the clutch ends up around the ignition coil area. Other thing is a meter does not take much 'power' to run so you could be getting 12v but if you really try to run something with it there is a bad connection somewhere that won't let it through. You can either try a larger load like say a light bulb or run another power source to the clutch coil. What does the clutch coil 'ohm out' to?
Check the clutch for continuity. Some also have a pressure switch to ground which
could be a problem, check it out. The clutch can be replaced without disturbing the
gas charge. Bruce Roe
Quote from: TJ Hopland on July 19, 2014, 06:29:29 PM
You are reading that 12v at the clutch connector? Or is one of your meter leads on a ground somewhere else? I think the ground for the clutch ends up around the ignition coil area. Other thing is a meter does not take much 'power' to run so you could be getting 12v but if you really try to run something with it there is a bad connection somewhere that won't let it through. You can either try a larger load like say a light bulb or run another power source to the clutch coil. What does the clutch coil 'ohm out' to?
Reading 12v with both leads of the multimeter on the two sides on the clutch switch, so feed and ground both good.
Additional observation...with the A/C system off, the face of the pulley visible behind the clutch plate does not spin. When the A/C system is turned on, that pulley begins to spin, but the clutch plate does not. Does this indicate anything?
Face of the pulley? Its been a while since I took one of those apart but I don't remember there being that many pieces in there. I kinda remember it being the coil the pulley with the bearing in it then the plate which is what you see on the front.
Quote from: TJ Hopland on July 19, 2014, 07:30:41 PM
Face of the pulley? Its been a while since I took one of those apart but I don't remember there being that many pieces in there. I kinda remember it being the coil the pulley with the bearing in it then the plate which is what you see on the front.
Does the thick plate on the front not spin when the compressor is engaged?
There is definitely a difference in activity at the front of the compressor whether the system is turned off or on, but the thick front plate is not spinning. Im used to seeing those spin when the clutch engages the compressor. Am I wrong?
When its engaged and working properly everything you see in front of the pulley should be turning at the same speed as the pulley.
If you grab that front part (with the engine off) can you turn it by hand? You should be able to. I wonder if the compressor is sized and the clutch surfaces are just that burnt up that you are not getting any smoke or noise. It usually takes a fairly good strong grip but you should be able to turn it.
Quote from: TJ Hopland on July 19, 2014, 07:46:37 PM
When its engaged and working properly everything you see in front of the pulley should be turning at the same speed as the pulley.
If you grab that front part (with the engine off) can you turn it by hand? You should be able to. I wonder if the compressor is sized and the clutch surfaces are just that burnt up that you are not getting any smoke or noise. It usually takes a fairly good strong grip but you should be able to turn it.
It turns fine and feels like other compressors I've dealt with. I can feel the pistons moving inside as I turn it.
Where's the low pressure switch on this car?
If you are getting full 12v and ground at the clutch terminals I don't think its a switch problem. I wonder if it did size at some point and burn up the clutch but after it cooled it unstuck itself?
These did not have a low pressure switch like newer stuff does. They had the thermal fuse and 'super heat' switch. The superheat switch was basically a low pressure switch but instead of being directly in the clutch circuit it operates a heater in the thermal fuse assembly. If the superheat contacts are activated (due to low pressure) it grounds the lead wire which then starts the heater heating. If it heats for long enough it blows the fuse in the assembly which is what powers the clutch. The reason for the heater arrangement was for a time delay to act as a buffer because it was normal for there to be short periods of low pressure and they didn't want the clutch to disengage every time that happened. The thermal fuse is in the top of the AC box under the hood on the firewall. The superheat switch is on the back of the compressor.
Quote from: TJ Hopland on July 19, 2014, 08:23:38 PM
If you are getting full 12v and ground at the clutch terminals I don't think its a switch problem. I wonder if it did size at some point and burn up the clutch but after it cooled it unstuck itself?
These did not have a low pressure switch like newer stuff does. They had the thermal fuse and 'super heat' switch. The superheat switch was basically a low pressure switch but instead of being directly in the clutch circuit it operates a heater in the thermal fuse assembly. If the superheat contacts are activated (due to low pressure) it grounds the lead wire which then starts the heater heating. If it heats for long enough it blows the fuse in the assembly which is what powers the clutch. The reason for the heater arrangement was for a time delay to act as a buffer because it was normal for there to be short periods of low pressure and they didn't want the clutch to disengage every time that happened. The thermal fuse is in the top of the AC box under the hood on the firewall. The superheat switch is on the back of the compressor.
I am assuming if this thermal fuse was blown there would be no 12v at the compressor, correct?
Yes, the idea of the Thermal Fuse is to sane the Compressor from destroying itself when the internal refrigerant pressure falls due to a leak. Only Cadillac had these I believe.
Bruce. >:D
The thermal fuse could be bad, you can jump it out to charge the system, that is a common cause for clutch not pulling in. Don't leave the jumper in after it is charged, because the fuse does save the compressor if charge is low. You can buy a new fuse for about $6 from USA Parts, I would buy a couple of them.
The fuse is up on the evap casing near passenger side hood hinge, a little three prong plastic rectangle (say 1.25" x .05" x 0.75" something like that, black with small green or whit text on it) held in with a 5/16" hex screw. Look on wiring diagram and follow compressor 12V back to fire wall and you will see the fuse wiring-that is how I first discovered it a while ago. It is kind of difficult (likely intentional) to jump.
To test the clutch take a negative and positive lead direct from the battery and hook it to the compressor clutch. there will be no controls in between battery and clutch. Start the car and you should be able to finish adding the near 4 lbs (might be 3.75) of R12. If clutch does not pull in, then it is likely bad. Never seen a bad clutch, it is likely the fuse.
Enjoy your Cadillac!
Point of reference, the superheat switch in the rear of the compressor senses exactly that. If the temperature of the return gas (to the compressor) is more than 25 degrees warmer than the pressure would indicate (superheated) the switch (in the compressor) closes, grounding the lead (at the compressor) that goes to a terminal on the thermal element mounted on the heater box at the firewall. This closes a circuit through a heating element and after a very short time the main circuit to the compressor clutch is opened, again as has been said above to save the compressor which run under the conditions of high superheat (usually meaning short of refrigerant and thus oil) would be soon damaged.
Thermal elements were used in several manufacturer's systems, not just Cadillacs, and they are available at (probably) all auto parts stores for about $3.00.
Since it seems the compressor quit running while in the early stages of charging chances are good that either the wire came off the back of the compressor and grounded (thus simulating high superheat to the thermal element), the thermal element went because of high superheat, or if this is a car that has had the compressor turned off and back on while at speed frequently, the magnetic coil operating the clutch may have failed.
Greg Surfas
Quote from: Scot Minesinger on July 19, 2014, 08:50:58 PM
The thermal fuse could be bad, you can jump it out to charge the system, that is a common cause for clutch not pulling in. Don't leave the jumper in after it is charged, because the fuse does save the compressor if charge is low. You can buy a new fuse for about $6 from USA Parts, I would buy a couple of them.
The fuse is up on the evap casing near passenger side hood hinge, a little three prong plastic rectangle (say 1.25" x .05" x 0.75" something like that, black with small green or whit text on it) held in with a 5/16" hex screw. Look on wiring diagram and follow compressor 12V back to fire wall and you will see the fuse wiring-that is how I first discovered it a while ago. It is kind of difficult (likely intentional) to jump.
To test the clutch take a negative and positive lead direct from the battery and hook it to the compressor clutch. there will be no controls in between battery and clutch. Start the car and you should be able to finish adding the near 4 lbs (might be 3.75) of R12. If clutch does not pull in, then it is likely bad. Never seen a bad clutch, it is likely the fuse.
Enjoy your Cadillac!
I cannot see anything that matches your description of the fuse around the evaporator casing. Regardless, it may not matter:
I ran jumpers from battery to compressor clutch. I get the same results when hooked to the jumpers as I do the regular harness wiring...when the A/C is turned on, the "clutch plate" as identified in the service manual (thin plate in between the thick clutch assembly on the front and the pulley where the belts turn) spins. The "clutch assembly" as identified in the service manual (the thick plate on the front) does not move.
Something is happening when the A/C is turned on, just not the right thing. I am assuming this means the clutch is shot.
Can the clutch be removed with the compressor on the car?
Sounds like compressor clutch and maybe compressor is bad. Clutch change out is difficult, and you run the risk of compressor being no good with a replacement clutch. I would replace both. Also at a minimum I would replace the dryer too in front of condenser, because if compressor did fail pieces of it may be in the dryer. I think the double belt compressor/clutch assemblies are around $450 rebuilt.
It may be a good idea to clean up the POA internally while system is apart. Sometimes those malfunction, and can be made to operate again without replacing. If a/c really did work last year it might be OK. The downside risk is if it is not, then you have to recover the R12 and make repairs, as opposed to now when it is much easier to deal with.
Further, the hoses and O rings should be replaced too if you plan to keep the car a while. Those hoses can last a while. If you just need a/c for the summer or a few years, the hoses may be OK.
You will need to recover the can of R12 in the system now. Do not vent it to atmosphere, or risk 25k epa fine.
The fuse could be bad too, and I would get one because they are inexpensive and necessary.
Scott (F),
Yes the clutch can be removed with the compressor still attached to the system. It is easier if you un bolt the compressor from the engine (two bolts in the front bracket and 3 bolts in the rear compressor bracket) and lift the compressor up where you can access the front end easily. It does take a couple of special tools to pull the clutch plate and the compressor pulley, but it is possible. I still do not understand your situation. I understand the front clutch plate does not move regardless of what you do, but exactly what changes. The pulley/clutch assembly consists of (in your case) a double groove pulley that fits on the nose of the compressor with a magnetic coil underneath, and the clutch plate. When the coil is energized (the two connections at the front of the compressor just behind the pulley) is pulled to the rear to contact the face of the pulley, engaging the compressor.
IF you see anything change when you apply 12 volts to the coil it may be that the clutch is not corre4ctly adjusted. Let us know
Greg Surfras
I had a problem with the A/C clutch on a 88 Chevy, the power was at the connector but the clutch would not always engage and turn the compressor. I bought a new clutch coil and as I started to remove the clutch I found the nut in the center was loose. I tightened the nut and the compressor ran fine after that.
Check the nut in the center of the clutch on the end of the shaft.
Glen,
The clutch on an A-6 is keyed on the shaft.
Greg Surfas
Quote from: "Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364 on July 21, 2014, 09:58:12 AM
The clutch on an A-6 is keyed on the shaft.
I thought the later stuff was too? Maybe I am remembering wrong? I only replaced a couple and in each case it turned out to be a complete waste of time and money because the compressor ended up completely failing shortly after anyway. Guessing in my cases the compressors were on their way out to begin with and that is what took out the clutches.
To me it is so not worth it replacing just clutch because it is some work and then after it is done, you are at risk to also replace the compressor. Then what do you do, find a clutch-less compressor (have not see one) and make the switch?
It is understood that the compressor does not engage when battery voltage (including ground) is applied to clutch. My recommendation is replace clutch and compressor, plus dryer, hoses and O rings. Then you are good for another four decades.
It is a good idea to pull fan (easy to do) and stick a snake camera in there to examine evap making sure there are no rats nests in there. Also you can remove sensor or evap casing rubber drain tube and look from those places too. If your rubber drain is missing that could be bad because rodents can get in there and make a nest. I have replaced evaps due to rodent infestation.
Scott (M),
Scott (F) has a system that is leak free, partially charged and nearly ready for operation. If the clutch coil is bad it is a matter of one bolt and two snap rings to remove the clutch, the pulley and the clutch coil. If you noticed new A-6 compressors are not being built and the rebuilt ones are offered with or (in most cases) without the clutch. Clutch plates seem to be readily available as are clutch pulleys although they are getting pricey. The point of this is that we are leaving the day when replacing the comkpressor with a rebuilt one is the easier cheapest way to solve the problem. I have over 30 "cores" that for one reason or another I kept, and I look at them as my future replacement supply. Although it takes a couple of special tools to correctly remove and replace the clutch plate and safely remove the pulley, the cost is more than justified in one or two usages. I once thought clutch coils were indestructible, but after 35-50 years of operat6ion they too fail.
Scott (F) still waiting to hear back on exactly what moves and what does not when power is applied to the clutch coil contacts. A picture would be worth many thousand words.
Greg Surfas
It almost sounds like he must have some sort of shim or disc in there. Did those have such a piece? I don't remember anything loose in there but its been a while since I had one of those apart.
I have also heard not so good thing about the typical rebuilt A6 these days so with that in mind it may be worth a shot to replace the clutch if you are fairly certain that is the only issue. Since this car has apparently not been in your care very long I don't know that I would trust the previous owner saying it worked last season unless you knew them fairly well. My last car came with the same story including that it was R12 but looking at the amount of oil around the pulley and clutch found that hard to believe. By the time I got around trying to test it there was not enough pressure in the system to run the tester so I gambled on my last can of R12 which had oil in it. Ran for a couple weeks before it sized up so something was apparently amiss.
A couple things I am curious about but didn't want to ask initially but since its not looking like a simple quick fix maybe it would be good info and help figure out what happened here. I'm just starting to get the feeling we are missing a piece of the puzzle.
First thing is how did the system go from working fine last season to being vacuumed down? Typically if they just leaked down a little over the winter it does not take more than just a 'top off' of the charge to get em working again. If it lost the complete charge over the winter seems like there is likely more than a typical leaking ceramic seal going on.
Second question is do you know for sure it was R12? The stuff has been harder (expensive) to come by for almost 20 years now so its getting less and less likely that you are going to find a system that is still running on it especially something that is seasonally driven since they seem to be more prone to leaks in the off season.
Last thought is are you sure this is an A6? I don't know your level of knowledge but if this is not an A6 that could explain why the clutch is not making sense to us. I just saw a tractor that had a direct replacement for an A6 compressor that had a really strange looking clutch on it. I didn't look that close at it but it did look a lot different than what I am used to seeing.
Yes, agreed A-6 rebuilds are not that great.
Greg, I hear you on clutch bad/leak free system/cost of R-12 and etc.
All, I tend to gravitate towards replace old parts with new/re-built, but the quality is often terrible (A-6 compressor). I rebuild my own hoses now, so this is a fast, reliable and inexpensive way to go for me.
If you remove the R-12 charge, I endorse converting to r134, but many do not due to 20% capacity reduction and other considerations.
You have all our advice, keep us posted.
Most of all we wish you success!
Thanks for everyone's input. I will post some pictures when I get the chance to tinker with this again.
Scott
I just went through my a/c system on my '70 Deville. I replaced the evap core ($250), got a rebuilt a6 compressor ($250) and all new O-rings ($10) from Old Air Products in Fort Worth, TX I bought a replacement expansion valve ($20) from Rock Auto, had to get my POA valve rebuilt ($225) by a place in Florida (don't recall the name), pressure tested my condenser ($10) and flushed it out, re-used the hoses and flushed them out. I went back with R-12 as these systems are meant for this refrigerant. I could have gone with R134, but I didn't because I wanted my system to work as it was designed (compressor runs constantly and doesn't cycle). I posted here for suggestions as well and decided to use R-12. I paid a local shop ($225) to assemble the valves, hoses, pull a vacuum on it, charged it up and check for leaks with their sniffer. I provided the Freon (had it for a long time). So all together, I have about $1000 in the a/c system, which looking back, is a lot of cabbage.
No leaks (for now!), cold a/c! and I'm good to go for a long time (I hope and keeping my fingers crossed!). As a side note, the old evap core was pretty dirty and nearly plugged up with dirt and debris. Too bad we can't figure a way we can add a filter to the incoming air.......Maybe Scot has figured out a way?????
That is great that your system is working well. I have only seen one dirty evap out of a dozen or so changed in the last year or two and it was due to rodent infestation. Our area of the Country is not dusty and has clay soil, so air born dirt is not common. Air filters require low velocity airflow which requires a large surface area. We just do not have that in our cars and a filter is a difficult modification that probably will not do much good.
To keep your system rodent free there is a rubber drain hose about 1.5 inch dia. that terminates to a slit. It lets condensate water out and keeps rodents from getting in. Make sure that is in place. If not it is like under $10 at USA Parts. To see it easily raise passenger front corner of car onto jack stand and it is at bottom of evap casing.
If you have trouble finding it, wait for a humid day and run a/c for half hour, while car is still running raise passenger corner on jack stand and shut off car. Immediately get under and see where condensate drips out.
Awfull small rodent that gets through that 1/2 inch drain line. More likely they have chewed through the mesh on the cowel intake ande have a lot more "home on the range"
Greg Surfas
Quote from: "Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364 on July 21, 2014, 09:58:12 AM
Glen,
The clutch on an A-6 is keyed on the shaft.
Greg Surfas
Agreed Greg, the coil is fixed behind the pulley; the pulley rotates freely when the coil is not energized; the clutch plate is attached to the compressor plate with a nut on the end of the shaft and is keyed to the shaft. When the coil is energized the pulley is magnetized and the clutch plate is pulled into contact with the pulley and the pulley then drives the shaft.
But if the clearance between the pulley and the clutch plate is too large the clutch will not have enough pressure on the pulley to drive the shaft.
That is what happened on the 88 Chevy. The nut was loose and the clutch plate moved away from the pulley enough it was intermittently driving the shaft of the compressor. I tightened the nut and all was well with the A/C.
The drain hole is one and a half inches in diameter, not 1/2" (sorry about typo). In referring to the coil on rodent infestation, it is the evaporator refrigerant to air heat exchanger up at the fire wall that the blower discharges into. It is not the electric coil on the clutch, which it is agreed not a rodent target.
Here is a picture of the damage after nest was removed from a 1967 Cadillac DeVille evap casing photographed in spring of 2013 or so. Next picture is of the drain tube. With next in there, air flow was reduced to near nothing. On this climate control restore, the only two things I did not replace were the condenser and the blower motor (did replace blower wheel).
I worked on this car restoring climate control, portions of exhaust, cosmetic work under the hood and chassis, dash work, and replacing body to frame bushings during winter-spring 2013. Then it won GN Primary 22 in Boston 2013. How cool is that? - I can say that I'm a prize winning mechanic. I worked on this car too much and let mine go so it did not do well in Boston, but earned a 3rd in NY at GN P22 category.
Glen,
Mis interpreted your post regarding. Although you can pull the clutch plate in with the nut, the proper way is with the clutch installation tool. Using that tool pulls the plate in to the (I use) 0.025") clearance that works best (for me). Using the nut which is just intended to keep everything together, puts the stress on the nut which often (apparently in your case) leads to the clutch plate loosening up. Although it has been quite a while since I saw one installed, OE compressors used a final snap ring outboard of the nut just as an additional safety.
Greg Surfas
OK guys here's a picture. Excuse the shadow.
You'll notice I have marked in red the disc in between the thick black clutch plate on the front and the pulley the belts ride in.
When the A/C is off, the belt pulley turns but neither the red-marked disc or the thick black clutch disc spin.
When the A/C is turned on, the red-marked disc begins to turn with the belt pulley. The black clutch disc remains stationary.
If this helps anyone with any ideas, let me know. At this point I am leaning towards full compressor/clutch replacement.
Thanks
Its been a long time since I worked on one of those and don't have any handy to look at but I think the 'red' part is supposed to be attached to the 'blue' part. I believe that plate is held on the hub part with 3 rivets.
Scott,
It looks like you have a bad clutch disc. There are rivits that attach the two parts and if they shear, you get exactly what you are reporting.
The clutch disc can be replacede, but again you really need the proper tool. They are available at most auto parts stores, and in fact some of the stores might even loan you the tools.
Best way as I said before is to take the mounting brackets loose and rotate the compressor nose "up" so you can work on it. With the tool R and R takes about 5 minutes.
Greg Surfas
Quote from: "Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364 on July 22, 2014, 06:38:45 PM
Scott,
It looks like you have a bad clutch disc. There are rivits that attach the two parts and if they shear, you get exactly what you are reporting.
The clutch disc can be replacede, but again you really need the proper tool. They are available at most auto parts stores, and in fact some of the stores might even loan you the tools.
Best way as I said before is to take the mounting brackets loose and rotate the compressor nose "up" so you can work on it. With the tool R and R takes about 5 minutes.
Greg Surfas
When you say the "clutch disc" are you talking about the red part and the blue part in my picture?
Here's a pic of the evap core I pulled out..........
Here's a pic of my A6, you'll have to zoom in to see the clutch part of the compressor. I think the black part and red part are supposed to be connected............
Quote from: chrisntam on July 22, 2014, 07:32:37 PM
Here's a pic of my A6, you'll have to zoom in to see the clutch part of the compressor. I think the black part and red part are supposed to be connected............
The weird thing is they seem to be connected. The pic below is a close-up of rivets that seem to connect them. With the engine off, I can turn the front with my hand and the whole thing turns together. But with engine running and AC on, they do not. Seems awfully strange.
Chris,
Nice looking engine bay. looks like you have not started it up yet at the time of the picture. My Hirsch blue paint burned off the heads at exhaust connections in about ten minutes after I started it. Did yours hold up?, and if so how did you make it happen?
Thanks,
Scot
Scott,
You are correct. The Blue and Red parts are (supposed to be) connected by the three rivets. With the engine off, the key on and the control lever set at "auto" see what happens when you turn the outer (Blue) part. This is the component that is directly connected to the compressor shaft. The Red part is the clutch disc and if this has truly separated it should be held firmly in place by the magnetic force of the clutch coil. You can find the replacement clutch at the site below.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=84220&cc=1320220
Even though this is listed for an earlier car it is what you need. That is, if "the Blue part and the red part" are truly separated.\
Any problems finding the part or the tool (try this http://www.tooltopia.com/ac-tools-tools-and-accessories-ac-clutch-service-tools.aspx) send me a PM and I can give you some additional directions.
Greg Surfas
Quote from: "Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364 on July 22, 2014, 09:05:47 PM
Scott,
You are correct. The Blue and Red parts are (supposed to be) connected by the three rivets. With the engine off, the key on and the control lever set at "auto" see what happens when you turn the outer (Blue) part. This is the component that is directly connected to the compressor shaft. The Red part is the clutch disc and if this has truly separated it should be held firmly in place by the magnetic force of the clutch coil. You can find the replacement clutch at the site below.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=84220&cc=1320220
Even though this is listed for an earlier car it is what you need. That is, if "the Blue part and the red part" are truly separated.\
Any problems finding the part or the tool (try this http://www.tooltopia.com/ac-tools-tools-and-accessories-ac-clutch-service-tools.aspx) send me a PM and I can give you some additional directions.
Greg Surfas
OK...key on, engine off, AC on, I cannot turn clutch. Start engine and the two parts are no longer attached.
This is getting comical.
Quote from: Scot Minesinger on July 22, 2014, 08:57:14 PM
Chris,
Nice looking engine bay. looks like you have not started it up yet at the time of the picture. My Hirsch blue paint burned off the heads at exhaust connections in about ten minutes after I started it. Did yours hold up?, and if so how did you make it happen?
Thanks,
Scot
Thanks Scot, it does look pretty, the chrome valve covers are growing on me. I used an MTS shaft rocker system, thus had to switch to them. The paint is holding up pretty well. I have about 100 miles on the engine so far (+ 30 minute cam break in). I got the exhaust manifolds "Jet Hot" coated, don't know if that's making a difference, don't think it would, but you never know. Marty built the motor for me, maybe he used extra on the heads???? I was worried it was running lean because some is starting to burn off, though not completely evenly, like I thought it would.
Tiger - if your system is charged up, I would try replacing the clutch first. If that doesn't fix it, you're not out too much money. Breaking the seal on the a/c system runs the price up. You never know, I say go for it! Changing the clutch out is easy, but you do have to have the right tool. I bet there's a you tube video on how its done.
So does anyone know why these clutches the disc is not riveted directly to the hub? Its seems that in almost every case there are those flat strut spoke sort of things. In most of the GM ones including the A6 they are not real obvious but in some they are clearly visible. Some cases it looks like there could be some sort of shock mount.
Nothing good on TV tonight so spending some time on the internet. Looks like I have not really looked at these things that close and pondered how they work. It appears those strut things I was wondering about are what allows that disc to move into contact with the pulley. Thinking about it now that should have been obvious.
Found this online that explains it.
http://www.ogura-clutch.com/products/mobile/whytheywork/principles-of-operation.html
Picture on the troubleshooting section of the site in the above link.
Slightly different design but I bet that is what has happened in his case.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ogura-clutch.com%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2Fbroken-springs.jpg&hash=a850cf5e89e832f2d2dcd84036c93ad99acc7730)
Scott (F),
It is not comical, you have a bad clutch disc. Easily replaced.
Greg Surfas
Quote from: "Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364 on July 22, 2014, 11:57:37 PM
Scott (F),
It is not comical, you have a bad clutch disc. Easily replaced.
Greg Surfas
So I guess the question of the day is...did the clutch likely fail because the compressor is shot? I'm not the most experienced car guy in the world, but I've never seen one of these fail, seems to me like it's likely an indication of a larger problem. Agree?
Nah, I'd say no. The clutch is sold as a replacement part so the manufacturers know they fail. The compressor's not frozen because you can rotate it (right?) by grabbing the front of the clutch and you can spin it (the compressor). Is your system charged with refrigerant?
It appears that based on your pictures, your description and the experience here, the clutch is bad. Obviously, we're not there diagnosing the problem (and can't tell if the innards of the compressor are bad), but it appears to be broken. You can spend $20 for the tool (or get a free loaner from a local parts store), $55 for a clutch + your labor to remove/install. So for around $60 to $100 you can try it. Or you can take it to a mechanic to evaluate it, they'd prolly charge $50 to look at it (they may provide a free estimate). Or you can put a remanufactured compressor on it and get into the system for prolly no less than $500.
So whadda ya gonna do? It's time to poop, or get off the pot, meaning decide, move forward and get 'er done.
Iffin it were me, I'd gamble on choice A or B.
Anyone around Memphis that can help? I'm in Dallas.........
Scott (F),
These parts are3 getting old, and things intended to last 10, 20, 30 years are in their 5th and 6th decade of operation. As Chris said, the choice is yours, OR you can wait until November when the weather cdools off.
Greg Surfas