Cadillac & LaSalle Club Discussion Forum

Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 10, 2016, 06:49:59 PM

Title: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 10, 2016, 06:49:59 PM
Just stumbled across this in Hemmings:

Never saw a Talisman with leather before but I understand a few were built.

Very unique. 

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/cadillac/fleetwood/1816918.html#PhotoSwipe1457653578683
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Rich S on March 10, 2016, 10:15:57 PM
What a beautiful car! Eric, a few years ago, there was an ad on e-bay with another '74 Fleetwood Talisman with Leather interior in a similar color combination. It was offered from San Clemente, California, and the seller claimed the Talisman with Leather could only be ordered in that color and in model year '74. If I recall, it featured a dark gold firemist standard color offered in '74--possibly the same as this one offered for sale.
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: jwjohnson86 on March 11, 2016, 12:04:04 AM
Looks amazing!  Quite a survivor.  Is the price reasonable?  No photos of the underbody to evaluate any rust or corrosion.  Interior is like a rolling leather sofa.
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: D.Smith on March 11, 2016, 07:20:18 AM
It was only available in 74.  It was offered in dark blue or Medium Saddle.
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 11, 2016, 09:17:26 AM
Does anybody know how much Talisman w/leather cost? 
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on March 11, 2016, 09:20:34 AM
I read somewhere +/- $2400 where the standard Talisman was +/- $1800
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on March 11, 2016, 09:35:27 AM
Here you go, Eric.
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 11, 2016, 10:33:03 AM
Acc to the inflation calculator, $2,361 in 1974 is $11,346 today.

A lot of money for a interior upgrade alone.

Dan...with a black exterior, it would be a perfect companion to your '61!

*Just noticed - looks like even the door panels are genuine leather too.
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Jon S on March 11, 2016, 10:42:04 AM
Did you notice that both rear body filler panels are totally missing - most shots start at missing piece forward.
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: chrisntam on March 11, 2016, 10:04:15 PM
............ooooooohhhhhh dat leather look comfy....................

I bet it smelled good back in the day.

8)
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: David Greenburg on March 12, 2016, 03:21:31 AM
If I had the space, I'd buy it, take the doors off and put it in my living room.  But it won't fit in my house, or in my garage.
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Scot Minesinger on March 12, 2016, 08:16:08 PM
Thanks for finding this!  Always wondered if the upholstery pattern was different for leather, as it sometimes was for Cadillacs of the 1970's.  If ever encounter a Talisman that needs re-upholstered it can be redone in leather if desired.  Just changed my 1970 SDV from cloth to leather including the changing to the wood inserts on doors and dash.  The original seats are saved in case anyone wanted to return it to original.
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 13, 2016, 01:53:53 PM
Upper door panels would need to be redone in leather to be correct.

Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Maynard Krebs on March 13, 2016, 11:52:35 PM
Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Dan...with a black exterior...
/quote]


BLACK???  YUCK!  Gets hot as hades and shows all the dust!
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Scot Minesinger on March 14, 2016, 08:23:47 AM
Black exterior is not bad at all.  My 1995 Fleetwood daily driver that traveled over 254k miles was black exterior with black leather interior.  Granted, there was a California duster in my trunk that was used every other day. 

For a hobby car mainly driven in summer, a black interior is to be avoided, but they can be OK with a good a/c system.  Black interior on a convertible is a deal killer for me though, as I am a top down guy.

Eric, your right upper door panels would need to be done too if changing to leather, but that would be the easiest part of the job.
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: chrisntam on March 14, 2016, 08:54:58 AM
$12k seems to be more than a fair price, wonder why it hasn't sold?

Ya know, 12 thousand just doesn't buy what it used to.   :o
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 14, 2016, 09:10:33 AM
Because it isn't black.  8)
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on March 14, 2016, 09:33:53 AM
Black exterior with this interior, I agree, would compliment my ebony/fawn 61 Fleetwood very well.  With a/c, having it operational would be a must for me as I like everything to work on my cars, so the black would be a bonus, not a detraction for me.  My '04 deVille, '09 Navigator, (both with black interiors) and my '61 Fleetwood are all black, and, while they demand a little more attention to keep them looking spiffy, it's worth it to me as I love black.

That said, in one of the Facebook Cadillac groups I follow, it has been mentioned that the car has been sold and was on its way to its new owner over the weekend.  Hopefully the poster in the FB group will chime in shortly.
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: chrisntam on March 14, 2016, 11:00:07 AM
Funny thing about black.

There is only one black (excepting gloss/matte/flat) and there are infinite shades of all the other colors.

Discovered that while working at the auto parts store that sold paint back in the day.
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 14, 2016, 11:08:51 AM
There was a time when I thought the same thing but I've since found that's not invariably true.

One thing that's for certain is that this car would be worth a lot more in black on black; triple black bringing the most - or 2x black w/red leather. (Either of those would have needed to be SO of course).
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: D.Smith on March 14, 2016, 11:09:48 AM
Quote from: Dan LeBlanc on March 14, 2016, 09:33:53 AM

That said, in one of the Facebook Cadillac groups I follow, it has been mentioned that the car has been sold and was on its way to its new owner over the weekend.  Hopefully the poster in the FB group will chime in shortly.

Turns out it wasn't a running car.   My buddy and I are having issues with the seller too.  So the car is not home yet. 
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 14, 2016, 11:22:19 AM
Sorry to hear that.

I hope it's nothing serious.
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: D.Smith on March 14, 2016, 02:10:31 PM
More frustrating than anything at the moment.   I'll keep you posted.
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: 76eldo on March 14, 2016, 05:18:36 PM
Where does it have to go?

I have a truck and a trailer.  Im in the Phila, PA area.

Brian
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: D.Smith on March 14, 2016, 06:03:03 PM
Quote from: 76eldo on March 14, 2016, 05:18:36 PM
Where does it have to go?

I have a truck and a trailer.  Im in the Phila, PA area.

Brian

Thanks Brian, but we have a truck and trailer too.   The problem is the seller is working with another buyer he didn't tell us about.  So I'm not sure if he is playing us or just inexperienced.
 

Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: 76eldo on March 14, 2016, 06:39:25 PM
I missed a nice 64 Riviera in January to a jerk like that.

Also a client in Norway lost a Hess Eldo because he didn't want to do a deposit.

Sometimes the first guy to show up with the cash gets the car.

Brian
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Scot Minesinger on March 14, 2016, 06:45:09 PM
When I sell a car, the first person with cash gets the car always.  I was burned once by not selling to a guy with cash based on the commitment from an earlier buyer that did not materialize.  I tell every perspective buyer this information, so it is a level playing field. 

BTW it is nuts that any Cadillac made in the 1970's that does not run is sold for more than 5k.  The seller should have had this car running.  I could see not ready to make a highway trip, but not running and driving, that is crazy.
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Jon S on March 15, 2016, 08:18:57 AM
Quote from: Jon S on March 11, 2016, 10:42:04 AM
Did you notice that both rear body filler panels are totally missing - most shots start at missing piece forward.

I thought the pictures/narrative were a bit deceiving by not focusing on/mentioning the missing rear body filler pieces.  Do those break based upon age, weathering or some combination of the two?
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Scot Minesinger on March 15, 2016, 08:38:28 AM
Jon,

Yes the 74 thru 76 rear fender rubber body pieces if original are usually gone even on a very well cared for Cadillac.  Replacements that look close are available.  One of my friends got his replaced by the dealer in the early 1980's and wow they look original but are of infinitely better quality.  Too bad those are replacements are not available.  If you ever come across a 74-76 Cadillac with original (that you know for sure) rear fender to bumper rubber filler pieces, you probably should buy the car.
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Jon S on March 15, 2016, 08:53:03 AM
Quote from: Scot Minesinger on March 15, 2016, 08:38:28 AM
Jon,

Yes the 74 thru 76 rear fender rubber body pieces if original are usually gone even on a very well cared for Cadillac.  Replacements that look close are available.  One of my friends got his replaced by the dealer in the early 1980's and wow they look original but are of infinitely better quality.  Too bad those are replacements are not available.  If you ever come across a 74-76 Cadillac with original (that you know for sure) rear fender to bumper rubber filler pieces, you probably should buy the car.

Thanks Scot
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 15, 2016, 09:00:57 AM
Filler replacement is pretty much a given on any 70s model Cadillac which continues to extend into later models as they successively age.

The two factors chiefly responsible for filler deterioration are age and heat/UV.  Mileage is irrelevant.

Not many 70s cars left with original fillers in good condition today but those that do, chances are they reside in colder climate areas.

Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: 64\/54Cadillacking on March 15, 2016, 04:15:05 PM
Why did GM even decide to use body fillers during this time? Was is for crash safety measures? My 78 Lincoln Conti uses a rubbery material to fill in the gaps where the bumper sticks out from the body, and it is still pliable and soft but obvious cracking is present in certain sections. But none the less, it's definitely not the crappy plastic filler that GM used in the 70's and 80's.

BTW that Talisman is lovely inside. 8) This is what luxury was all about, a plush, super comfortable place to be while being transported in silence. I rather have this car than a new CT6 that's for sure. At least this Cad has real presence and a quality to it that is long gone in modern cars.

Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 15, 2016, 04:31:15 PM
It was not plastic; it was a rubber based compound that needed to be suitable for painting. Flex agent needed to be added to the lacquer before painting these parts.

Reproduction fillers are made of hard plastic which the manufacturer claims will never crack. Time will tell but having recently done the job on my 16,000 mile '77, I'm just as happy never to learn the answer.  ::)

The necessity of these parts was to be collapsible to meet the federally mandated (since repealed)collision standard in which no damage was to result as of frontal or rear impact @ 5 mph.

Bumper assemblies were mounted on energy absorbers which allowed the bumper to push into the fillers. Making them out of rubber prevented the bumper from transmitting the movement into the quarter panels or front fenders. 

Cannot comment if the materials used by other big-3 manufacturers was any better than that used by GM.
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Walter Youshock on March 15, 2016, 05:15:53 PM
This is when Cadillac lost its multi-piece anodized aluminium grille for chromed plastic.  Pretty sure it was for 1973 and it was attached to the front t bumper so it also moved in a bumper tap.
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Scot Minesinger on March 15, 2016, 07:38:39 PM
The back seats in a CT6 can be ordered to recline, and with a V-8, I think the CT6 would be my preference over a 74 Cadillac.  If you go back to the 60's it gets close - to each their own.

Keep us all posted on the fate of this rarely optioned Talisman.
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: 64\/54Cadillacking on March 15, 2016, 07:59:15 PM
My 72 had a plastic grill, so I am guessing around 1969 or 70 was the last time Cadillac used anodized aluminum for it's grills.

Quote from: Scot Minesinger on March 15, 2016, 07:38:39 PM
The back seats in a CT6 can be ordered to recline, and with a V-8, I think the CT6 would be my preference over a 74 Cadillac.  If you go back to the 60's it gets close - to each their own.

Keep us all posted on the fate of this rarely optioned Talisman.

I hear ya, but a 65 Cadillac Fleetwood Bro with real wood trim, pull down trays and foot rest, would knock the socks off a CT6 in terms of size, presence, luxury, quality and comfort. I know styling is subjective, but there's no denying that a 65 Fleetwood blows away a CT6 ( Man I hate saying that name) on the styling front and overall class. 8)
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Rich S on March 15, 2016, 08:15:19 PM
As for the "last" metal grill, my '71 Eldorado has an all metal grill. I've been told it became the plastic material in '72.

As for your comments about the most luxurious Fleetwood Brougham (or Talisman), it's really tough for me to choose one--although I'm rather partial to the high-backed seating of the '69-'70 models, but then the arched roof side windows and Opera Lamps drew me to the "new look" of the '71 Fleetwoods (and note its rear window backlight is completely the color of the Vinyl Roof, while in '72 it was outlined in a chrome-like molding, and to me the latter looks especially elegant since it accentuates the smaller rear backlight!)
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: cadillacmike68 on March 16, 2016, 12:05:24 AM
Quote from: Maynard Krebs on March 13, 2016, 11:52:35 PM
Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Dan...with a black exterior...

BLACK???  YUCK!  Gets hot as hades and shows all the dust!

Yeah, but it looks GOOD when its clean.   8)

Same for dark blue.  I had a black 1970 fleetwood Brougham, a black 1995 Fleetwood Brougham and still have a dark blue 1996 Fleetwood Brougham.  they look striking when clean.

Of course it's pollen season right now so in less than 2 days they look yellow.  >:D
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: cadillacmike68 on March 16, 2016, 12:11:04 AM
Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 14, 2016, 09:10:33 AM
Because it isn't black.  8)

Amen to that!  ;) (or dark blue)

It has a nice interior. Looks a lot like my 1996 Fleetwood Brougham, but my 1996 has a lot more HP. But I don't have the footrests or that wide front seat leg space.

Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: cadillacmike68 on March 16, 2016, 12:21:12 AM
1971 still has a metal grille. That was the last year.

The rear (and front) fillers started in 1973 on Eldorados and the problem with them de-materializing went well into the 1980s. Its sad and a detractor to the looks of a car unless they are replaced.

Real wood trim (on leather interior DeVilles and Fleetwoods) was last used in 1968.

Quote from: 64CaddieLacky on March 15, 2016, 07:59:15 PM
My 72 had a plastic grill, so I am guessing around 1969 or 70 was the last time Cadillac used anodized aluminum for it's grills.

I hear ya, but a 65 Cadillac Fleetwood Bro with real wood trim, pull down trays and foot rest, would knock the socks off a CT6 in terms of size, presence, luxury, quality and comfort. I know styling is subjective, but there's no denying that a 65 Fleetwood blows away a CT6 ( Man I hate saying that name) on the styling front and overall class. 8)
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Scot Minesinger on March 16, 2016, 09:09:12 AM
Yes 1971 was the last all metal body Cadillac.  The 72 Cadillac I worked on a year ago had a plastic grille.

64caddielacky,  Yes I wrote when its get into the 60's it gets close, 70's not quite as much for me.  As a daily driver probably will buy the CT6 with reclining rear seats and V-8 in a dark color after it is 2 years old, even though a wonderful 1965-1976 Fleetwood could be bought for less.  The other thing is hate to ruin the low mileage originality of a mid 60's Caddy in three years driving it regularly.  I thought seriously about pressing my 1970 SDV with 35k miles into daily driver use if I could not find a modern daily drive that worked for me.  The CT-6 w/V-8 will do it.
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: 64\/54Cadillacking on March 16, 2016, 04:14:22 PM
I guess it's the ugly, funky look on modern cars that I can't stand, not necessarily for they way they drive. No chrome, no metal, mostly all plastic interiors that feel cold and unpleasant. Seats in luxury cars that are still hard as park bench, and pretty much characterless in most aspects.

I really do like the Chrysler 300 as far as modern cars go, those drive beautifully and do have a sense great styling with a menacing look.

So 71 was the last year for the metal grills? I remember when I first bought my 72 Deville and being surprised the first time I washed it and realized that the grill was all plastic. Not something I expected for a luxury car. The rear tail light housing didn't use fillers on my 72, it was all metal, so I'm guessing the 74 model year was the first time Cad started to use fillers?

I drove my 72 as a daily driver for 2 years, and had lots of fun with friends and girlfriends 8). I had so many great memories in that car in such a short amount of time that I owned it. Drove it to Vegas twice with no problems. I lived with my cousin for 3 months out there in the brutal heat during the summer, and the car never overheated or broke down. Just goes to show how well built Cadillac's drivetrain were in the 70's.

But I was younger then and took more risks, I don't think I would dare to that today although I have a lot of confidence in a 472 and TH400 to outlast most cars of that era! Nothing but praise for that engine and trans. :)
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 16, 2016, 04:57:50 PM
5 mph bumpers began in model year 1973; '73 rear filler consisted of a narrow body color strip between the bumper end and rear quarter panel, edged vertically by a thin piece of chrome trim running the full height of the quarter panel.   

Filler strips on '73 models seem fairly resistant to the cracking which is so common on subsequent model years.
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: Jeff Wilk on March 16, 2016, 05:34:18 PM
Apologies upfront if this upsets anyone but.........this post is now waaaaay off topic. Any update on if Dave was able to secure this Talisman?
Title: Re: Ultra Rare 1974 Fleetwood Brougham Talisman w/leather
Post by: D.Smith on March 16, 2016, 09:42:08 PM
Quote from: Jeff Wilk on March 16, 2016, 05:34:18 PM
Apologies upfront if this upsets anyone but.........this post is now waaaaay off topic. Any update on if Dave was able to secure this Talisman?

Hi Jeff,

   No word from the seller yet.    Last call said it was raining and they didn't want to work on the car or drive it in the rain.