I think these are the correct ones, can anyone verify if these are correct?
This is all I need to finish my 5 year restoration.
KD CLC#26801
Are they the same as 1939?
Ken,
IMHO those are much later & not even Cadillac.
Bob
I agree with Bob. I can't find any pictures but I think the rear seat lighters had a bake-lite knob. Harry
I agree with the reddish brown Bakelite handle. I seem to remember a "T" shaped handle. Is that correct?
If this is all you need to finish a five year restoration, call Ed Cholakian at AllCads and pay his price, so you can say it's done.
Quote from: Barry M Wheeler #2189 on May 28, 2016, 08:39:14 PM
Call Ed Cholakian at AllCads and pay his price, so you can say it's done.
:o :o :o
Bobby
According to the authenticity manual, they are supposed to be chrome for 1940. I did speak with Lauren and she said to send a picture but I don't know what they look like.
Anyone have a picture of the correct one for 1940??
KD CLC#26801
Here are some shots of '40 custom 60 series built for the head of Cadillac at the time. These were taken at the Gilmore museum in 09. Seems this car has some 90 series features, so maybe the lighters are the same...at least you have a period lighter reference.
Removed steering wheel image as associated with wrong car...thanks Berry Wheeler.
David
The white plastic ash tray cover on the custom 40-60S is not the same as the normal one on the 75 and 90 series cars which are brown so I don't think this is a good reference. I do not remember the source of the info for the statement in the authenticity manual that the 40 had chrome lighters but look in the front for the names of the people that reviewed this (Carl Steig, Ron Van Gelderen, Doug Houston, Roy Schneider, etc.) so I would go with it until shown otherwise. Attached is a picture of an unrestored 1940 V-16 Town Car. It does not show the lighter very well but what shows is chrome.
I have quite a number of various lighters from this period, but I don't know what is correct for your car. When you settle on what is right, let me know and I may have one or two.
dennis@caddyparts.com
Dennis
After reading Dennis' reply, I suddenly remembered that I have a 1940 Fleetwood Deluxe spiral bound catalog.
Although the illustrations are artist's renderings, the lighter tops are quite visible, and (dark brown bakelite.)
It may be that they changed to chrome in production, but as (I think) they used Bakelite in 1941 (I had a 6719F for some time), and I believe I remember the brown colored ones in the radio console.
I hope this helps. No matter what my illustrious peers may have said in the manual. Now if you REALLY want to know, give Terry a call.
I thinks its plain they used different types in different series and different years. All my 41s have chrome lighters, never seen a brown or Bakelite type. My 1940 was also chrome but these are all 61 or 62 series.
I was concerned as the men saying that they used a chrome one bothered me. I mean, they have had the cars. So, I just looked through all of the brochure. It would seem that some models used a lighter with partial chrome, and others used the Bakelite. The convertible sedan has a close up of the RH lighter that I will see if I can scan. It's too close to supper time to do it now, and then I have choir practice. I'll try to get it done this evening when I get back.
I just tried to scan the brochure, but for some reason, it doesn't recognize the computer. I'll try in the morning. In looking again at all the drawings, I think the "chrome" I'm seeing is the circle on the top which is chromed. There is a brown knob with an inset circle of chrome on the top.
It says in the Master Parts Book that the knob is to be ordered from the chassis book GP 7.3163. It has different knobs for 1938-75, 1939, and 1940. I assume that these are for the front.
All of the Senior cars from 1938-1940 use the same ones and the part is called a "button." Given what little information we can glean from the parts book, it would seem that the Senior cars 1938-40 all used the same lighter and from the art work in the brochure, that is a brown plastic with a chromed circle on the "top."
Again, I would call Terry Wenger as the only "expert" other than the ones named that I know of that might know for sure. Dennis, do you have anything like that in your stash?
A lighter is easily lost and after this amount of time, what is "right" is getting harder and harder to substantiate.
Given the large amount of wood in the rear compartment, I'd go for the one pictured in the brochure.
Parts book would not be the decider here unless you can find the one year only parts books. I only have a 38 only parts book. The parts department did not care if the part was an exact replacement, only that it would work. There are many examples of this which I have gone into before. Terry and I wrote the authenticity manual and was reviewed by the names listed and by others. Terry may remember the source of information on this issue.
This is all getting confusing. Studying the pictures that David posted of the 1940 Special custom I see its got a variety of features. The main window winder is all chrome with a centre of cream plastic. The lighter looks to be all plastic and the vent winder winder all chrome?? Now would they have fitted such a difference in fittings? or have things been changed by restorers over the years?
I had a 1941 61 series last years and all the window fittings were chrome with a brown plastic centre. It never had a lighter so I can't comment on that, then I had another 61 which was all chrome!! I also had a 62 series and everything in that car was all chrome as are everything in all the 62 series I have had.
. Personally? I think they fitted whatever they wanted at the factory.
The SO car that the photos are of is unrestored and that is why I thought it might be a good referance of what was possible. I'm thinking the shape and detail of the lighter might be what was used. I suspect that the ivory color used in the car could be special and one off for this car.
David
I take your point David but the car is 76 years old so who knows what would have been changed in that time?. If an item broke or got lost that was peculiar to a SO car who knows what they fitted as replacements?
That lighter looks a looks a lot more pronounced out of the ash tray than most I have seen.
Let's see if this comes through. Surprise, it did. No matter what some of you think, Cadillac would not have installed parts willy-nilly at their discretion. This IS the Standard of the World, isn't it? Why do you think we have NOS items available? Because Cadillac had barrels of parts available when these cars were new. Just because you have seen two, three, or even a dozen cars and something was different, that means that someone other than the factory changed the part. (The lighter might be sticking out further than usual because it wasn't pushed all the way in by the owner on the SO car.)
I've spent about two hours trying to get a good picture of what was purportedly used in the car. If it is of help, I am pleased.
Quote from: Barry M Wheeler #2189 on June 02, 2016, 09:46:17 AM
(The lighter might be sticking out further than usual because it wasn't pushed all the way in by the owner on the SO car.)
Point taken Barry. Your pictures of a brochure tell the true story for me but what year and model is it? as the lighter is a different colour to the one in Davids pictures.
A couple of posts from yesterday, I mentioned that I had a brochure for the 1940 Fleetwood 60S/72/and 75s. Sorry to have forgotten to mention it again. Also, I HOPE that the picture of the dash purportedly from the "custom" 1940 60S was from a 1946/47 Cadillac and included in error. (I was just browsing eBay in the 1939 brochures, and it appears that the lighter is like the 1940 one I showed.) I also punched in 1938 Cadillac 90, and found some dealer promos which included a 1939 running V-16 conv sedan. Guess what color the cigarette lighter is??? Brown! I will admit that there was also a 1939 V-16 Sedan which looked as if it had a chromed one. But, as the car was painted fire engine red, I took that one with a grain of salt. BW
For what it's worth, my '41 60S, which is original, has the brown plastic (bakelite?) knobs on the lighters. They match the sliding brown plastic ash tray covers.
Dennis Akerman, CLC 3676
Quote from: Barry M Wheeler #2189 on June 02, 2016, 05:48:44 PM
Also, I HOPE that the picture of the dash purportedly from the "custom" 1940 60S was from a 1946/47 Cadillac and included in error.
Berry,
I went back and checked the photos and that interior shot is in the same grouping of photos as I walked around the car. Ross Morgan was with me at the time and requested the attendant to open up the car which they did. It was a slow day early in the week so no big deal.
I figure the head of Cadillac got want he wanted. I don't know the how long he or the car was there, but it is possible the car was updated while in GM use. The up/down window control, auto trans are a few things even I notice as out of place, but the car is real and unmolested.
This might be a cool story some time for the Self Starter.
David
Berry was correct.
There is an image mixed in with the grouping of individual car shots of 2 cars, that is so close that with my walking around at the time years ago, that it appeared to be part of this photo grouping.
I have sent the original shots to Berry and the image posted has been deleted.
I really try to provide accurate info, but am always able to be wrong. Thank you Berry.
David