Hello,
I need to get a spare tire for the Eldorado. Currently have the "spacesaver" but no inflation canisters. So I want the security of just a plain old spare. While I'm getting a spare I am considering replacing the current tires. They are in fine shape but I guessing 20 plus years old, at least.
So I've searched the forum and found a good string from about a year ago( http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=139221.msg323085#msg323085 ).
I am hoping to bring back the conversation and hoping for some clarification.
The best I can figure is that the original tires are "LR78-15-B Steel-belted radial tires, white sidewall".
Yet you sages seem to be using a different vernacular like "235/70R15 white wall". Is this a new designation for the same proper tires size? I know this description does not indicate the proper 1.6" whitewall width I should be looking for.
I have tried to research Coker's website but i find it less then user friendly.
I did get in touch with the nice people at Diamondback and I like the concept of a new tire made to look original. It sounds like they add good value. But needing five tires @ $259 each plus shipping, that's a $1500 bill.
Is there any other options I have missed if i am seeking the correct size AND Whitewall width?
Or is there a better compromise?
Thank you in advance.
The tire industry went to the all numerical size numbering many years ago.
L-78-15 does equate to 235/75/R15. You can get American Classics from Coker wiuth the proper size 1.6 inch whitewall for $165.00 per tire.
To me, anything larger or smaller than the 1.6 looks wrong on a 76 Eldorado.
I have some aged Firestone 721's on my 76 Eldo that I will be needing to replace. Lots of tread but I know they are old and should be replaced for that reason.
You will get lots of opinions on tires and some guys go for the skinny 1 inch or 3/4 inch whitewalls because they find them for 99 bucks somewhere but if you amortize the higher cost over the 10 years of so that the tires will last the difference in money seems pretty silly. To me...
Brian
If you are just looking for a good radial tire with about an inch wide white sidewall there are several options in the P235/75R15 size. Due to the lack of whitewalls on anything coming out of Detroit in the last decade the P225/75R15 or the P235/75R15 are the only options in a moderately priced tire. Vogue makes an expensive whitewall in a couple sizes, Diamond Back will make a whitewall tire but most of those tires are actually SUV M&S tires due to the size, and of course Coker makes all the correct sizes and whitewall widths for a price. The biggest decision is whether you want a radial at a price point or a factory correct tire and whitewall width at a much higher price.
Gentlemen,
This seems to be a good recommendation and compromise:
https://www.cokertire.com/checkout/cart/
Thank you very much for all the help.
Before pulling the trigger I figured I would do a last inspection of my existing
Vogue Custom Built Radial VII tyres. That's what they call them.
They look pretty good with no checking or cracking and lots of good tread. The whitewall is a little checked but could probably be restored and cleaned up with some product.
Vogue inexplicably places their DOT date code on the inside of the tire so I scwermed around and under and determined the tires were made mid 2000 which seems like yesterday but that is 17 years old.
Do I need new tires? Or am I talking myself into a largish bill? To replace them would be about $170 each, pretty much the same as Coker? Though I do like the Coker look and WHitewall better.
What say you old tyre experts?
Any tire over ten years old can fail suddenly. Tires are the only thing keeping that monster on the road.
Brian
"...and thank you for your support"
Frank Bartles
Here is an original tire from 76. The purchaser had the tires mounted to these wheels at time of purchase. Use for reference if you wish...
I have had better luck with pre 2000 ish tires holding together. I'm not saying they were safe but for me they didn't seem to just suddenly fail. Can't say the same about post 2000 tires. Have had 3 catastrophic failures of 'outdated' tires over the last 10 years.
If you are just going to 'Sunday' drive city streets then maybe you can get away with it, a catastrophic failure at 30 mph on a sunny day isn't going to ruin someones day, at 65 its another story. If you are going to drive the car its just a necessary expense. It cost more if you want it to look correct. As they say you got to pay to play. Hankook Optimo is still available everywhere in the $75 range as well as store brands likely made by Cooper especially if you go to a more rural tire dealer. You don't get the 'correct' width but its half the price which for many works well considering you will be in the same boat in another 7 years.
This is what can happen to an old tyre, even though it looked almost new when I purchased the car in 2007. After driving the car for 4,600 miles in USA, this one went in 2013 well after I got her home in 2008.
Luckily I was going not much more than 50 MPH, and as it was on the back, I didn't feel it till it touched the inner fender, and had sufficient time to stop before it fully destroyed itself, and did minimal damage to the car.
I had three of the tyres that were on the car when I purchased it go bad. One in Connecticut, after the Cherry Hill GN, and two here in Tasmania. They all had problems with their steel belts.
The 5th picture was the third tyre. And this one went 3 months after the second one. The 4th tyre I decided to destroy it before anything else happened.
The 6th picture shows the steel belts gone in the first tyre, in 2008 in Connecticut. It was on the Front, and I could feel it destroying itself and by the time we got home, 200 yards away, it was really feeling bad.
Bruce. >:D
I had two older radial tires on my latest project just for shop roll-arounds, both of them came apart within a few months of each other just sitting there.
I wouldn't trust a 17 year old radial tire on the open road (or a 10 year old one for that matter) on one of my beauties for love nor money.
BTW, if you want to use a space saver spare tire, you don't need an inflation canister, just buy an inexpensive portable compressor that plugs into your cigarette lighter. I carry one in Big Red when on trips to touch up B.R.'s air shocks when needed. As Bruce might say, "works a treat!" ;D
I have a small 12 Volt Compressor that I use for inflating the Space-saver that I carry in my Continental Kit. It sits nicely inside the waterproof ex military ammunition box that I positioned within the Continental Kit.
The trouble with the Eldorado Convertible is that the full-size spare really limits the carrying capacity of the trunk. Plus, carrying the Hard Boots also takes up a lot of room.
Bruce. >:D
For a big car the trunk space is really small.
I usually keep the boots in the back seat footwells in the individual vinyl bags I sell on eBay leaving more room in the trunk.
Brian
Quote from: 76eldo on January 04, 2017, 06:25:25 AM
For a big car the trunk space is really small.
I usually keep the boots in the back seat footwells........Brian
But not really helpful when carrying passengers and their luggage as well.
I wish Cadillac had thought these Hard Boots through a lot better, and created proper storeage positions for them.
Bruce. >:D
"BTW, if you want to use a space saver spare tire, you don't need an inflation canister, just buy an inexpensive portable compressor that plugs into your cigarette lighter. "
Now that is a fine idea all around. So next question:
Is an old space saver tire dependable enough as a spare? Or should i be considering a new one as well?
Ill check the date of manufacture when i get home tonight.
I'm going to use one in my current project, they are not of radial construction, AFAIK, and therefore are not subject to the internal stresses that radials are which, along with the rubber compounds used these days, give modern radials a definite and relatively short lifespan. My space saver is from the '70s and appears to be in as new and excellent condition with no cracking or separation of any kind. As a spare, for very limited and speed restricted use, if the occasion arises, I am going to go with it. They can be run flat by the way.
Please take this with a grain of salt, but let me share -
All of my 1979's have the space saver spares, but I have wire wheels and when I found a matching wheel, I decided to carry it as a spare. After I removed the space saver from the trunk, I decided to air it up. It had obviously never been on the road before. When I aired it up, it did not properly inflate, and was severely misaligned on the rim - plus there were numerous cracks where the rubber had been folded up on itself. There would be no way that I could have put the inflated tire on the car, and if by some miracle I could have mounted it, there is no way it could have supported the weight. I have since placed a full size spare in all of my cars - even though the Seville's have pretty small trunks, I would never have counted on a 35 year old, folded rubber tire to get me to safety.
That is just my experience. I suppose others have tested their space-saver tires and feel comfortable with them, but I would encourage any one who is relying on them to inflate them and make sure they are in good shape before they are needed.
Fellas,
This keeps getting better.
So my space saver looks like brand new sitting in the trunk. The old DOT three digit date convention is 056. So that means it was manufactured in the fifth week of the sixth year of the "DECADE". Which decade I can only guess as the the seveth of the second century. In other words it looks like my space saver spare tire was manufactured in 1976, just like the rest of the car.
When I go get my four new road tires installed I'll ask the tire guys to test the space saver and give advice. I'll either stick with it (and buy a mini compressor) or have one of my 2000 vogues thrown on as a full size spare.
I think.
When I received my three Space-savers, I inflated each one, and inspected them very carefully. Two were brand new, and one had been used, but was still good.
The "cracks" I observed were not cracks, but actual folds in the rubber, and as they are made from a special rubber that is designed to be "compressed" when not in use, I could not fault them.
Further, the instructions say to bolt the tyre to the vehicle before inflating, but when observing the actual inflation process, I an glad I didn't because the first "unfolding" is to inflate the inner part of the tyre, thereby pressing the wall of the tyre against any object that could get in its' way.
Lastly, when I got my Aluminium wheels, I transferred the tyre from the original steel rim to the new one, and even though it was a difficult task, it got done. After the first inflation, it was a bit out of alignment, but that was soon rectified by a bit of deft re-seating of the bead.
Bruce. >:D
I had my space saver removed from its rim so I could have the rim sand blasted and painted, upon remounting the tire it was inflated to its normal pressure and aside from the folds Bruce mentioned, the tire was like new. My tire returned to its original form on the rim when deflated, something I was in doubt about at the outset. It's going to look neat in the trunk of our Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod.
I have seen those space savers recently that looked pretty good and I have seen bad ones so like everything just depends on the conditions its lived through.
You need a decent compressor to fill a tire. Many of those 12v units take a few minutes to fill a bicycle tire so you are going to be waiting a long time to fill a car tire maybe even forever because the quality of many of them is questionable. While waiting for a tow truck I took one apart. Mine had plastic cylinder and piston with a plastic rod hooked to a motor that looked like it came out of a cheap model train. It was all in a metal of some sort case so I thought there was a chance it was a decent unit. Bore was maybe 5/8 with about the same stroke. Performance was terrible below 10psi and there were not words to describe what it was like as pressures rose.
Because of trunk space I started carrying a 'doughnut' spare in my 73. I got it out of a 96 Roadmaster wagon so it was only 10 years old when I got it. I have had to use it twice now and it did alright. Not as good as a full size tire but its got me where I needed to go. Roadmaster and the Eldo weighed about the same and it was narrow enough that it didn't have any clearance issues.
That is the secret. A good quality Compressor. Mine wasn't one of those cheapies, and doesn't take that long to inflate the tyre.
Bruce. >:D
I recently installed 4 new Coker tires on my 1976 Eldorado. The 1.6" whitewall looks great. The previous tires had a more narrow whitewall and the difference in appearance is quite something. So I concur with Brian about spending the extra money on the correct tire. I spent about $750.
Leonard Grayver
Quote from: 76eldo on January 03, 2017, 02:34:11 PM
The tire industry went to the all numerical size numbering many years ago.
L-78-15 does equate to 235/75/R15. You can get American Classics from Coker wiuth the proper size 1.6 inch whitewall for $165.00 per tire.
To me, anything larger or smaller than the 1.6 looks wrong on a 76 Eldorado.
I have some aged Firestone 721's on my 76 Eldo that I will be needing to replace. Lots of tread but I know they are old and should be replaced for that reason.
You will get lots of opinions on tires and some guys go for the skinny 1 inch or 3/4 inch whitewalls because they find them for 99 bucks somewhere but if you amortize the higher cost over the 10 years of so that the tires will last the difference in money seems pretty silly. To me...
Brian
I'm one of those.
Here are a few things to consider:
Road hazards: does coker provide a road hazard warranty? If so how long will it take to get a replacement tire if the hazard renders the tire unusable?? Will you have to send a tire back at considerable expense for them to "review" it???
Is there a mileage warranty from coker? I do not think so.
Availability of a replacement tire. Can you get one while out on a trip? The "$99 options" (sometimes less) are usually available anywhere. not so with coker.
The same questions apply to diamondback.
Yes the whitewalls are too thin, even for me, but for me to go just about anywhere requires trips on the interstate, which where I live means 60-70MPH or faster, so as not get slammed into from behind. I used to have to go 15 miles just to get decently priced fuel. I still have to go 20-40 miles (two different locations) to get the 110 octane that the car wants.
I had a failure similar to TaAssie's - not catastrophic, sut still a large piece of tread separation - on a 8 year old tire. The other 4 went away, and I got 5 Hankooks, with a too narrow whitewall as replacements. Yes it's too thin, but it's still a WSW. ;)
Alan , "Cadillac" Mike makes some very good points re: tires from a company which rhymes with a popular game of chance and skill played with a pack of cards and money. Those tires are considered by many to be "show tires". "Cadillac"s comments are well considered from a drivers perspective. What percentage of your ownership will be spent looking at , detailing it , showing it ? How much driving ? Listen , esteemed member Matt Harwood just posted "1976 Eldorado fuel injection leaks" here. Read the off topic comments some boorish oaf posted therein regarding handling of these masterpiece cars. And let me see if I can get Matt to comment on tires for you and all. He puts a lot of tires on a lot of cars , and perhaps he can just link you to his pertainant postings on forums.aaca.org . - Oaf
P.S. : "Cadillac" Mike makes another good point. 110 octane gasoline really makes full throttle driving of the old 10:1 and 10.5:1 compression ratio Caddys a treat. I once drove my '70 CDV to L.A. Exotic gasoline is available (at a price) for the trillionaires who drive old high compression competition cars , like 13:1 Ferraris. Yes , I have heard up to 127 octane may be found. My '70 really enjoyed the 100 and 110 octane juice ! - Boorish